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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2017, 14:04 
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Jack definitely has a bullying disposition, and I recall reading that book (I've since lost my copy so my memory is hazy) and being horrified at her behaviour and at how the school handled it.

IIRC, she and Jane end up very good friends, and I couldn't believe Jane would want to be friends with someone so unpleasant. In my experience bullies do not 'change their spots' like that, and just tend to transfer their behaviour to a new target.

There's an episode in 'Barbara' where she is wrongly accused of something, which sets the scene for an episode of bullying, but never really comes to anything

'Barbara paled and then went red again as she looked round the ring of faces. It was unfortunate for her that none of the Gang were there. Neither was Clare who would have put a stop to this kind of baiting at once, and given her a chance to speak up for herself. '


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2017, 05:27 
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AilidhNoor wrote:
There's an episode in 'Barbara' where she is wrongly accused of something, which sets the scene for an episode of bullying, but never really comes to anything


Because, in one of those CS moments that make you want to stand up and cheer, Vi puts a very effective end to it.

Which is one of the reasons I loved the CS as a kid because popular pretty kids like Vi and ML stand up to bullies on behalf of other kids. So later in the series when Margot and Jack indulge in bullying tactics themselves, it's a bit of a jolt.

AilidhNoor wrote:
Jack definitely has a bullying disposition, '


So does Margot and it comes out in her 'coaching' which scares the younger girls to the point that they deliberately avoid her.

cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2017, 14:51 
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Well, Margot's behaviour on the hockey pitch was disgraceful. It's in 'Challenge' and when she confesses to the Games Mistress, she gets away with it.

Jayb's version on Lime Green Musing, is much better, for once, Margot gets her comeuppance.

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2017, 06:51 
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Any chance that you can give the title of Jay Bs srabble please
would love to read it


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2017, 07:36 
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ann S wrote:
Any chance that you can give the title of Jay Bs srabble please
would love to read it


I think it must be My Filthy Temper Again by JayB in SDL.


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2017, 15:57 
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AilidhNoor wrote:
IIRC, Jack and Jane end up very good friends, and I couldn't believe Jane would want to be friends with someone so unpleasant. In my experience bullies do not 'change their spots' like that, and just tend to transfer their behaviour to a new target.'

I'm not sure about 'wanting' to become friends with a bully, but it does happen. I was badly bullied, in my first year at grammar school, by two girls who came from the same school - not mine! They made fun of my voice - I didn't have the local Nottingham accent - to such an extent that I became afraid to open my mouth for the next few years, so sensitive was I about how 'awful' I must sound. I still often feel that way, even today. They also made fun of the parts of my uniform that were hand-made, eg cardigan and summer school dress, because money was in short supply at home. They were both well off and didn't understand. My mother said I changed completely in that year, from a happy-outgoing child to a very self-contained one who found refuge in books. And yet, by the time we got to fifth form, we were good friends, so much so that I once even went on holiday with one of them and her parents. Did we remain friends after school? No!

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2017, 01:45 
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MaryR wrote:
And yet, by the time we got to fifth form, we were good friends, so much so that I once even went on holiday with one of them and her parents. Did we remain friends after school? No!


One of the group of girls who bullied me was the daughter of one of my father's friends. So at church youth group and outside of school, she was 'friends' with me. But once we got to the school gates, she went off to her group and promptly joined in the bullying again.

Once primary school was over, I seldom spoke to her again even though her family stayed friends with mine.

Years later when she had her own family and mum dragged me over to her place on a visit, she told me her daughter was being bullied at school. Ironically she wanted me to talk to her daughter about how I "dealt with it."

I simply said "that's called karma." I didn't say that to the kid though!

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 00:15 
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janetbrown23 wrote:
ann S wrote:
Any chance that you can give the title of Jay Bs srabble please
would love to read it


I think it must be My Filthy Temper Again by JayB in SDL.


That's a much better version of events and true to what the Chalet School would have done in previous years or for a different character. I do think EBD had a problem with doing anything against the MBR clan, but then Margot (and young Sybil) were too strong as characters for her to write them any other way, hence the "turning a blind eye" which wouldn't have happened for anyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 04:47 
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Peg wrote:
hence the "turning a blind eye" which wouldn't have happened for anyone else.


And the covering up that goes on to protect her is insane. Especially when she nearly kills Betty with a block of wood. I wonder what the Landon's thought when Betty went home and told her parents what happened.

And why?! I know EBD would not think about stuff like the school being sued, but there is no logic given for why Miss Annersley would hush up the whole affair. Except to protect her best friend's daughter.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 07:52 
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I assume she was just trying to avoid trouble. The form could have split between Team Margot and Team Betty, and caused a lot of tension. But it's so unfair that Margot gets away with it when other people get into trouble for so much less. Hilda Jukes is criticised by her form, and sent to see Miss Annersley, because she accidentally injures Nina as a result of a contact sport, in which Nina wasn't properly positioned, organised by a teacher during a PE lesson.

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 09:19 
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Joyce wrote:
And the covering up that goes on to protect her is insane. Especially when she nearly kills Betty with a block of wood. I wonder what the Landon's thought when Betty went home and told her parents what happened.

And why?! I know EBD would not think about stuff like the school being sued, but there is no logic given for why Miss Annersley would hush up the whole affair. Except to protect her best friend's daughter.

Cheers,
Joyce

As a person swift to anger and a chucker of objects most of my life (though not at people usually, other than a saucepan of cold ravioli I tipped over an intransigent teenager once) I have a certain amount of sympathy with Margot...

And no, EBD would certainly not have thought about the possibility of the school being sued since, praise be, in those days we did not live in the ridiculously litigious culture we do now.

I am all for people getting their rightful dues in any circumstances, indeed that is what my working life consisted of ensuring for the CAB's clients, but we have gone, I feel, far too far along the road of what is reasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 00:55 
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As somebody who also can explode on occasion, I think Margot Maynard should have been expelled. It was a bookend she threw at Betty and for very little reason. She nearly killed her. Betty deserved to go to a school where she could feel safe - her parents were also paying enough money.

There should have been the most awful rumpus imaginable. I wonder how hurt Betty's parents would have felt at their daughter being treated like this.

Just two years before Margot had been very unpleasantly bullying and blackmailing another girl. Interesting that this took place when her mother was , yet again, about to give birth. Some women - maybe - can cope with lots of children. Joey was not one of them. She should have stopped trying to impersonate a sausage making machine and make a better job of looking after the children she already had.

I would say Margot needed psychiatric help. Maybe there was a bit more to it than hearing her "devil". She could have had a serious mental illness. Either that or just pure nasty . Goodness knows how she treated younger pupils as a prefect and games captain.


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 04:27 
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cestina wrote:
I am all for people getting their rightful dues in any circumstances, indeed that is what my working life consisted of ensuring for the CAB's clients, but we have gone, I feel, far too far along the road of what is reasonable.


But Margot never does get her rightful dues. She constantly loses her temper with consequences for other people and she never gets any kind of real punishment that goes deep enough to encourage her to change.

At ANY other school she would have been expelled. And for pete's sake, blaming Betty as well is the worse kind of 'blame the victim' mentality.

She has a bad temper and loses it at the drop of a hat and she gets excused time and time again for that. You can see the pattern emerging from the very beginning when Len tries to make excuses for her when she's only 4!

And the school is not doing her any favours by covering up her bad behaviour. What happens when she leaves the comfy bubble of the CS and meets real people who do not give a darn that she is a Maynard?

"Yes, I lost my temper and chucked a tantrum in front of a patient, but you see I have a devil..."

Audrey25 wrote:
As somebody who also can explode on occasion, I think Margot Maynard should have been expelled. It was a bookend she threw at Betty and for very little reason. She nearly killed her. Betty deserved to go to a school where she could feel safe


Exactly! There is NO thought given for how Betty feels having to see Margot every day.

Cheers,
Joyce

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Last edited by Joyce on 18 Aug 2017, 10:20, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 07:35 
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Didn't someone once come up with the theory that Margot was one of those people who suffered from severe PMT? I really don't suppose that's what EBD was thinking, and Margot had had temper issues since she was very young anyway, but apparently it can be very extreme in a small number of cases.

Deira threw a stone at Grizel, but she did at least show remorse afterwards. And other people get into much more trouble for fairly minor things. What happens with Margot just doesn't seem to fit the CS ethos at all. Malory Towers, which isn't nearly as "deep" as the Chalet School, has an ongoing storyline about Darrell's bad temper, but Darrell gets into serious trouble when she shakes another girl, and gradually learns to control herself better.

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 11:06 
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I think there's a major difference between a one off incident like Deira throwing the stone - which isn't entirely deliberate anyway; and Margot's repeated bad behaviour. And I say this as someone who does have to go away and calm down occasionally.

I don't think that Margot should have been given any position of power and she probably should have been expelled for the bookend incident. But she has issues with self control from a young age and isn't helped to overcome them. All that pressure about being in the 'wrong' firm, when she's actually in about the right one for her age, really can't have helped.


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 04:31 
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Alison H wrote:
I assume she was just trying to avoid trouble. The form could have split between Team Margot and Team Betty, and caused a lot of tension. But it's so unfair that Margot gets away with it when other people get into trouble for so much less. Hilda Jukes is criticised by her form, and sent to see Miss Annersley, because she accidentally injures Nina as a result of a contact sport, in which Nina wasn't properly positioned, organised by a teacher during a PE lesson.


What Hilda did was nothing compared to Margot and yet she gets scolded by everyone and cries herself into an illness. And what the three prefects in Two Sams does is more the result of a miscommunication than deliberate carelessness. And those girls are told they will be bad mothers!

I agree it could have caused a split in the form but maybe seeing how her classmates regard her behaviour might finally drive the message home to Margot.

And the times when Miss Annersley/school intervenes or doesn't is very uneven. Girls like Eustacia, Jane and Lavender are bullied or sent to coventry, and they don't intervene. In Lavender's case it requires the prefects, Eustacia runs away because she is so unhappy and poor Jane is actually BLAMED for standing up to her bully.

But they move very quickly to protect Margot not only for the bookend throwing but for the blackmail attempt. In some ways that is even worse because it was premeditated and even seeing her sister's disgust doesn't stop her.

It really shows that EBD is incapable of not showing a bias towards her favourites.

cheers,
Joyce

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Last edited by Joyce on 19 Aug 2017, 10:40, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 10:36 
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I agree Joyce and as regards the prefects in the skiing incident in Two Sams, it's Con who is largely to blame and Hilda tells her kindly that she has a hard row to hoe and that she must 'confess' to Mamma.


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 19:39 
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It's a school thing so why must Con confess to Mamma, puzzles me that.


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 21:25 
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Terrygo wrote:
It's a school thing so why must Con confess to Mamma, puzzles me that.

I agree and apart from that, surely Con is too old to still "confess to Mamma"? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Bullying?
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017, 11:46 
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Was it yet another way of bringing Joey into the conversation? The prefects made a mistake, surely the teachers did as well, who was actually responsible for testing new girls? I can't see how that will make them bad mothers, nor how Con will have a hard row to hoe,nor why Joey needs to be told.Is Hilda going to tell the parents of the other two prefects?


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