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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 18:27 
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Order Mark!
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Joined: 29 May 2009, 18:01
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cestina wrote:
What is an SAHM please?

Just googled it. Stay At Home Mum


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 19:53 
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Aha....

Miss_maeve have you come across the wonderful free on line courses ran by bodies like future learn or the University of Derby and many others?

Fraujackson and I are addicts and even if they may not lead to an actual qualification they can provide an excellent stepping stone for later....

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 22:56 
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MaryR wrote:
A large majority of teenagers have no idea what they want to do when they leave school

I still don't know what I want to do and I left school 15 years ago. I knew what I didn't want to do - any of the jobs people I knew had, whether it was reaching, retail work or driving a train. But I didn't know what else was out there. I was lucky that uni was an option for me, unlike my parents, and I just fell into chemistry because I enjoyed it a bit, could do it and could see that it might lead to a job away from teaching (unlike my other option of classics which I enjoyed more at school). I managed to get through my degree quite well without ever really finding a passion for the subject, drifted into doing a PhD (graduating in 2008 didn't leave many options for jobs) and then managed to get a job which I enjoy but which I sometimes feel intimidated​ by. Especially working with people who have a passion for the subject and therefore a much deeper knowledge of it. I never got how someone could pick a job at 15 or younger and stick with it. And the careers chosen by some of the girls in the chalet school have quite a lot of training and then a lot of work to get established in the career. How likely is it that most of them would actually get that far before marrying and having children?


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 01:03 
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Climbing with your knees bent
Climbing with your knees bent

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
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cestina wrote:
What is an SAHM please?


Stay at Home Mother

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Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 11:29 
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Indulging in a midnight feast
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The girls we see following their dreams tend to be the musical ones - Margia, Jacynth and Nina and of course the teachers. Eustacia, who should be a Prof at Oxford ends up living with Jo doing - what? So many marry young so have not had time to get far in their careers. I wonder what EBD would have thought of modern women who combined marriage with careers, chose when to have babies and how many. And how about house-husbands?


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 01:16 
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Climbing with your knees bent
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I think there is an undercurrent of thought that for a woman to deliberately choose to prioritize a career over marriage and family required either a religious vocation (like Robin), or obsessive brilliance/genius (the musical girls). Or obsessive devotion to Joey (like Anna). Characters like Julie Lucy are shown quickly jettisoning their law ambitions for being the wife of a housemaster without a second thought.

I do get the impression that for EBD, having a strong, masterful doctor sweep her away from teaching to take care of her was a bit of a fantasy, which I can kind of understand. I'm not sure she'd necessarily have liked the reality of being ordered around by a masterful doctor-type, while looking after the home, though.

I think, though, a lot of it was the reality of the day. Women of the CS class were expected to quit their jobs, generally on marriage and definitely on having kids. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't reliably put off childbearing after marriage, and things like daycare weren't well established. The husband's career was expected to support the family, so the wife needed to follow him as he pursued it, and in some cases was expected to be an (unpaid) part of his job.

Stacie, though, was still a professor at Oxford, even though she was living in a wing of Freudesheim and teaching maths and Latin at the CS. So I don't think EBD had a great idea of how being a professor actually worked. You can't randomly live where you like while being a professor (barring an occasional sabbatical year), and a small town in the Swiss Alps would hardly have the resources needed for Stacie to do her research.

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 06:08 
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jennifer wrote:
Characters like Julie Lucy are shown quickly jettisoning their law ambitions for being the wife of a housemaster without a second thought.


She's not the only one. Daisy was clearly well on the way to a brilliant medical career.

Quote:
I do get the impression that for EBD, having a strong, masterful doctor sweep her away from teaching to take care of her was a bit of a fantasy,


Oh definitely - Joey's life WAS her fantasy life. Masterful wealthy husband, large family, help to look after said large family, lots of friends AND a writing career to boot. But the reality, as you say, is a very different proposition.

I wonder at what point masterful becomes abuse? To me, even dosing his wife without her knowledge is abusive.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 11:05 
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miss_maeve wrote:
I never really knew what I wanted to do, and so my mum shoehorned me into retail work. Her reason for that was that she didn't think I'd enjoy office work enough. As a result of that, I've spent most of my working life doing a job I detest, for a pathetic wage that has not enabled me to save up very much money.

I'd honestly rather have had a job I didn't like that at least paid me a little more!

Only now, in my early forties, have I finally realised what I would like to do. Sadly I'm not able to do much with it for the next couple of years, as I am now a SAHM - I can't just dodge off to college or uni to pick up the qualifications I need.


My sister just completed a 4 year teaching degree with 4 children. I know it wasn't easy and I don't know if its possible to study at Uni as a mature age student, the way it is here in Australia. I hope you can find a way.

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 13:12 
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My friend got married in the final year of her fisrt degree (in pharmacology) and had her fifth daughter just after finishing her PhD, about ten years later. She had a fairly hard time managing everything, but she did it!

To be fair, her husband (who is a rabbi and teacher) only worked part time while she was studying, so he was able to spend more time looking after the children. They decided that as she was likely to earn a lot more, it made more sense for her to push ahead with her education while he spent time at home. Since she finished her Phd (and got a very good job), he has completed his MA, and is beginning to think about a doctorate - their current attitude is that he needs to finish that before their eldest daughter starts university, in four or five years time!

It is a great arrangement, and took a lot of work and co-operation from both of them - but can you imagine EBD ever considering a similar scenario?!

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2017, 13:32 
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...and Results
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jennifer wrote:
I think there is an undercurrent of thought that for a woman to deliberately choose to prioritize a career over marriage and family required either a religious vocation (like Robin), or obsessive brilliance/genius (the musical girls). Or obsessive devotion to Joey (like Anna). Characters like Julie Lucy are shown quickly jettisoning their law ambitions for being the wife of a housemaster without a second thought. I do get the impression that for EBD, having a strong, masterful doctor sweep her away from teaching to take care of her was a bit of a fantasy, which I can kind of understand. I'm not sure she'd necessarily have liked the reality of being ordered around by a masterful doctor-type, while looking after the home, though



It also seemed to be acceptable in the case of teachers such as Bill or Hilda, while Simone and Gilllian were 'too dear and sweet etc etc'.

Rosalie Dene was also given a career and there was absolutely no hint that she was settling for second best and would secretly have liked a husband and children. Yet in 'Barbara' she was seen wondering why Beth Chester wasn't married given how pretty she was. Did that mean she had resigned herself long ago to a single life because she wasn't pretty enough to attract a man?

And talking of Beth, what happened to her aspirations to train to be a gardener? In the earlier Armishire books that was shown to be a real passion for her. But then she somehow ended up being a nanny for Jo.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2017, 00:10 
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Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
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I think the "dear and sweet" thing was just a phrase EBD trotted out. I hope so anyway considering EBD was a schoolteacher herself. I don't actually think Simone did fit this phrase as she was too much her own person.

It may also have been EBD's secret dream to be swept of her feet by a dishy doctor but I wonder would she have liked it in reality?


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Lou and Archaeology
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2017, 03:54 
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Vintagejazz wrote:
Rosalie Dene was also given a career and there was absolutely no hint that she was settling for second best and would secretly have liked a husband and children. Yet in 'Barbara' she was seen wondering why Beth Chester wasn't married given how pretty she was. Did that mean she had resigned herself long ago to a single life because she wasn't pretty enough to attract a man?


Joey comes right out and asks about it Rosalie one day and she replies that she's perfectly happy with her life. So why change it? As for being pretty enough, one hopes that you look for more in a wife or indeed a husband, than good looks :D

Audrey25 wrote:
It may also have been EBD's secret dream to be swept of her feet by a dishy doctor but I wonder would she have liked it in reality?


Perhaps it's best that she didn't. She clearly had written out her fantasy life with the Jack/Joey relationship which no man would possibly live up to, so she was bound to be disappointed.

Cheers,
Joyce

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