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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 19:57 
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Lol. Minim, that seems to have come through three times!

Your Scar is very clear in my mind though, and your Margot. So you can obviously do both!

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 20:00 
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It came through three times due to impatience and two got deleted. I guess I can do both, but some of the time I can feel a bit uncomfortable with using EBD characters.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 20:02 
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I know what you mean - there's more potential for conflict if you see them differently to other people reading.

But it's also quite helpful sometimes to have the original characters there as a framework.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 20:29 
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The trouble with people knowing the characters already is that they often have a different idea about them from your own. Take Tristan, for instance - despite him being only a minor character (and, Nell excluded, I only like working with minor characters as I have a lot more freedom!) a lot of people have certain views about his sexuality, and I have mine, and sometimes it makes me fret that I might be going in a direction that doesn't work for some people. And I fret easily, so I find that a distraction.

Nell is different, as a lot of people already perceive her as gay, so it doesn't bother me to write her that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 20:43 
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I think though that he is less "Mr Denny" and now your version "Tristan"

He has now developed into your own version, so that people will go with whatever works for you. Things like that will work for the reader if they work for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 21:00 
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ChubbyMonkey wrote:
What I did find hard, though, was staying to canon; it took ages to work out where even a few of the girls would be in terms of forms, and you might have noticed that I never once mentioned the name of the Head Girl, because I didn't have a scoob who she was, there was nobody to choose from!


Yes, I'm getting that with plotting T&M Part III - I have just had to sit down and work through a careful timeline of Princess so I can make sure everything fits in with EBD's version, and the other bloody thing is that I can't have anything too spectacular happening, because Joey or someone would have commented on it in the book...it gets a bit circular :D But I've had it easy, setting T&M in the two terms of Juliet's headgirlship that aren't written about by EBD herself (I don't count fill-ins as canon).

Beecharmer wrote:
I think though that he is less "Mr Denny" and now your version "Tristan"

He has now developed into your own version, so that people will go with whatever works for you. Things like that will work for the reader if they work for you.


It's nice of you to say that, but while I created a lot of the character (and I did create quite a lot - the bones were there but there was very little flesh on them) he is still not entirely my own, and it causes me a few wibbles. Less so with Sarah, because she was even more sketchily drawn than T and therefore I didn't feel I was taking too many liberties (except insisting on the "Sarah", when everyone calls her "Sally"!).

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 21:25 
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Tristan is awesome in every way. :D

I tend to find that when I use EBD's characters I sort of make them mine anyway. But I do have a particular fondness for my original characters - Augusta is a joy to write and requires barely any effort whatsoever!

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 21:45 
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I find it easier to write about minor characters, because they fit into CS-land but there's that much more freedom to develop their personalities. & I've tied myself in knots trying to stick to canon - Sybil stays 14 for 3 years and it's very hard to work round that :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 22:10 
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At the moment I'm very much enjoying working closely with individual books - taking incidents in the books as jumping off points, or finding spaces where I can insert 'missing scenes'. Trying to find explanations for gaps and oddnesses in the text makes reading the books more fun - and rather than starting a discussion asking why on earth Con Stewart set a rather bloodthirsty Milton sonnet as punishment for Margia, for example, it was more interesting to try to work out the repercussions of that in a drabble. And EBD leaves such intriguing hints and clues it's sometimes very hard to resist.


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 22:42 
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I found that most of my original characters just appeared as if by magic - they weren't supposed to be there, but took on a life of their own and now tend to write themselves, especially Mother Abbess and Hilda's ward. Hilda herself dictates to me at the weirdest times, but of course others may see her very differently from the way I do, which I got by teasing out the tiny details from the books which aren't always obvious. :roll:

As for the actual writing, I can't create anything by staring at a laptop screen. It has to be pencil and paper, then it simply flows off the lead as though dictated. Why the difference, when I know most of you write straight onto the computer?

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 22:53 
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I used to write with pen and paper until I did NaNoWriMo three and a half years ago - I just couldn't work out writing straight onto the computer. Since I was working full time at the PO there's no way I'd have managed 1600 words a day in writing and then typing it up, so I absolutely had to write it on the computer. 50k words later, I found that I was entirely able to do it after all! I guess it's mainly a matter of what you've got used to.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 22:56 
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I find that too, some of my own characters just write themselves. Josie, Gerry and Rosie particularly do that, Sam Harbottle doesn't say much but when he does it's usually random!

Yes I like that aspect of it jayj - that is one thing that drabbling is really good for - explaining thoughts about or inspired by the characters.

I find minor characters quite hard, as I often work mainly from my memory of the books, only checking details after writing. Although the minor characters don't have as much information, they still are in fixed places at fixed times. So it is easier to get timescales very wrong. So I quite like the more major characters as I have read the ones up to about Theodora so often that I feel I know the characters and situations well.

See that is interesting Mary - I thought that a lot of people seemed to write on paper then type in?

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 23:09 
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I've had a few problems caused by stupid Armada! I've made "errors" because of things I didn't know had happened because they're cut out of the pbs and I hadn't read the hbs at the time. I try not to think about them :lol: .

I tend to go straight to typing, just because it saves time.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2012, 10:41 
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I often go straight to typing, but I have a notebook and write drabble scenes in there as well, usually because I get an idea or a line in my head when access to a computer which I feel comfortable writing on (meaning not a school computer). Otherwise I might forget it.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2012, 15:19 
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I type it straight to the computer too, it's easier to amend so I got used to writing that way and then I copy and paste it in. Though I have had to sketch out the plot of 4.50 (in as far as it is planned, which isn't all that far!) on paper to try and keep it on track.

The characters issue isn't so significant for me as I've been writing subversive drabbles which alter or exaggerate everyone's characteristics. :) I do find timeline difficult though and have used the resources from Joey's trunk a lot to sort out who was at the school when and what form they should be in, so I'm really grateful that those are available.


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2012, 19:23 
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ChubbyMonkey wrote:
Writing Isobel was actually quite eye-opening... What I did find hard, though, was staying to canon; it took ages to work out where even a few of the girls would be in terms of forms, and you might have noticed that I never once mentioned the name of the Head Girl, because I didn't have a scoob who she was, there was nobody to choose from!


But I'm so glad you did. I think by staying close to canon you created a fascinating story which really fitted in with the real CS books. Much as I love so many of the weird and wonderful drabbles in the SDL, the St Agnes house "canon" ones are my favourite, so I really appreciate the extra effort people put into those ones to get the details correct and use EBD's style :D .


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2012, 23:47 
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Eleanore wrote:
Didn't someone (Lesley?) write a drabble about Nell's feelings about being passed over for senior mistress or headmistress (can't quite remember which - senior mistress, I think) in favour of Hilda? If they had been a couple, that would have been a very awkward situation for them.


Yes, called Senior Mistress - it's in the archives. I've never seen Hilda and Nell as being gay or having a sexual relationship. I do, however, see them as loving each other - as far as I'm concerned it doesn't have to be sexual to love someone/. Just look at how they are in RCS.

As for whether it's easier to write my own characters or CS ones - the characters I write about mostly write themselves and I can write Hilda and Nell any time. With my own characters I can allow them to grow and develop - with CS characters I find I'm more constrained if I'm writing as though written by EBD but if they are in different situations I can let them grow too.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2012, 01:44 
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It doesn't have to be physical to love someone at all. However it doesn't necessarily mean that their love and partnership are any less if someone does see them as a physical couple as well as emotional one. - I'm not saying you said that Lesley, or anyone else who feels them not to be a physically active couple. Just following a train of thought.

I find drabbles where characters like Nell, Nancy, Kathy or perhaps Tom Gay or Jack Lambert suddenly discover boys or the delights of Jack / Jem / Gaudenz unlikely in my own interpreration of the characters, and so I can see that if someone has always come to a character / partnership from the perspective of them being either straight or uninterested in either sex, then a gay version would perhaps jar or be less interesting for those people, jyst as the straight versions are less interestjng and no more plausible than the gay versions for some other readers. One of the things that the drabbles are good for is perhaps making us look at why we have particular feelings about how a character would act, and why.

I know that as a teenager I hadn't read the later books as much, so although I "hero worshipped" Kathy Ferrars, it was Hilda and Nell who stuck out as a female partnership. That didn't mean at all that I automatically thought of the physical side, but more that "I'd like a Nell of my own someday" (Not Hilda she's too scary ;-) )

In a straight context, the sexual side of a partnership is implied (though obviously not guaranteed) by the characters marrying and having children. In writing from a gay perspective, the absence of things like that to show a partnership of that kind is perhaps why a bit more focus is occasionally on the actual physical attraction as well as the emotional.

I think what I am trying to say is that if one person's perspective of characters is that they might be gay, and physically active it doesn't lessen the love that those characters have for each other. It is just a different perspective on that love. Nor does a drabble being slash mean that all the characters do is jump into bed together. That might be a portion of the story, just as "Will you marry me" or "Reg knew what he wanted" or "Whoops we are having our 73rd baby" might be a part of a straight story.

I think where I am headed is that there can be a bit of a split between "They are gay" or "They are not gay" when actually the thing that we all agree on is that they are a loving partnership of two people who complement each other well and like to spend time together. There can be a tendancy for both sides to seem as though the love is lessened either by them being or not being a physical partnership, and that is perhaps always going to be influenced by the direction (or perhaps orientation!) the reader / writer uses to approach their view on the characters.

Adding the complication of them being gay in a less enlightened time can add a different perspective to thinking about the characters, it doesn't necessarily need to be approched as if it sullies those characters. (Again not saying anyone above has said that, more that it is a suggestion that has been voiced in previous discussions on this subject.)

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2012, 09:02 
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I think that in the second half of the twentieth century society got so obsessed with sexual relationships that we lost the idea of the passionate friendship/romantic friendship as something in between a jolly best mates relationship and a sexual relationship.

Apparently this did affect GO books. Angela Brazil's books are full of people having crushes on prefects, and EJO's early Abbey books have got two young girls referring to each other as husband and wife, but that then dies out.

In the early CS books, we get Simone being obsessive about Jo, and we get Jo saying "I love you," to Juliet (which I don't think we ever see her saying to Jack, or Madge saying to Jem!), but it happens much less in the later books ... except for that scene in Gay when Nell's talking about Hilda, though. I've no idea how EBD meant us to interpret it, but that scene when Nell's talking about how much she loves Hilda is far more moving than Reg deciding he likes Len better than her sisters :roll:, Joey suddenly falling into Jack's arms because Robin and Hilary'd gone missing or Hilary and Phil's engagement being announced when we've only seen them together once. The male-female relationships (which we know definitely are romances) just aren't written about so well.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2012, 09:10 
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That's very true - I think there has been a shift to try to show that in some films - although I hate the word - the concept of "Bromance" has been dealt with a few times in films recently, and that is a nice shift, back to the fact that people can be inbetween, love each other deeply as friends.

I do agree about Nell's discussion with Joey too, whatever the nature of the relationship it shows a deep bond and is good to read.

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