The Chalet School Chaplain
The CBB -> Cookies & Drabbles
Should this drabble be written?
Yes, it sounds interesting.
90%
 90%  [ 19 ]
Ummm, I don't know about that. Perhaps with a few modifications.
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
No. What on earth was your PB thinking?
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 21

#1: The Chalet School Chaplain Author: Shander, Location: Canada PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:41 pm

The small sparkling purple leaf has bitten me and I'm wondering what people think of this idea.
It occured to me to wonder what would happen if the Chalet authorities decided to hire a full-time chaplain for the school, and how people would react if the minister they hired was a woman.
My thought is to have the person be a Canadian trapped in England because of the war, because I do know of a Canadian church that ordained women at the time, and to have her hired to oversee the protestant girls. Possibly she could be recommended by one of the Chalet folk that moved to Canada
Anyhow, let me if you think it is doable or interesting.

 

#2:  Author: caz, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:55 pm

So were you thinking of setting it during the war? Would there then be a perceived need for a Catholic chaplain as well?

 

#3:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:00 pm

I'm not sure whether a woman would have been legally recognised back then though.

 

#4:  Author: Shander, Location: Canada PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:52 pm

The United Church of Canada did ordain women who were legally recognized as ministers in the 1940's. Any thoughts on whether it would apply to England. She would be more engaged in dispensing the sacrements etc, than preforming any legal functions.
Thanks for the point on the Catholic chaplain, caz, I'd forgotten about that.
As I said, feedback is always welcome

 

#5:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:12 am

I was meaning in England Shander. Maybe among the Forces helping, but I'm not sure about the position in the English Church. There was an awful lot of controversy when women's ordination was brought in, and they still can't become Bishops for some obscure reason. I'm probably not the best person to comment though as I am a Methodist.

 

#6:  Author: claire, Location: SOUTH WALES PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:13 pm

I don't think a woman would have been recognised back then, wasn't it only in the 80's/90's that women could be ordained?

 

#7:  Author: Caroline OSullivan, Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:42 pm

In the CofE it was ten years ago that women could be ordained priests (they'd been allowed to be ordained deacons for sometime, not sure how long). There has been lots of articles about as it's the tenth anniversary this year.

 

#8:  Author: Shander, Location: Canada PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:21 pm

hmmm
The church i come from pat, is made up of the methodist, congregationalist, presbyterians and a few others.
So,
another question is
A. would the CS hire a deacon
B. would they hire a protestant chaplain who was not C or E?
I don't know much about how it works in England.
Any thoughts/

 

#9:  Author: Chelsea, Location: Your Imagination PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:07 pm

Shander, I know very little (read: pretty much nothing) about religion in England, but we (i.e. United's) are considered fairly weird in terms of who we allow to hold office, so to speak. I know that homosexual ministers in the United Church were not recongnised within the Church of England (at least they weren't about 5 years ago), so I suspect that a United Church female minister might not have been recongnised in the UK.

 

#10:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:12 pm

thye might use a deacon. not sure when they came in and nor is Steve!!!

 

#11:  Author: Shander, Location: Canada PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:21 pm

just did a bit of research and found that

In 1910, the Wesleyans officially lifted the ban on women preaching to mixed congregations and in 1918 officially granted them the same rights and conditions as male local preachers.

The first woman in Canada was ordained in 1936.
My thought is this.
If it is the middle of the war, the majority of men will have joined the army (like our friend Ernest Howell)
Perhaps it would make sense if she had a dual qulification. It would be entirely possible that she was made a deacon first, and then was ordained as a minister, thus being eligible to preach in Britain.
i'm trying to make this work, because part of what really has my interest peaked is the reaction of people to a woman who doesn't accept a lesser role in the church.
Is it workable?
Thanks everyone for all your help

 

#12:  Author: Angel, Location: London, England PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:36 pm

I had this bunny a few months ago - if you want to share notes and the research I did, give me an e-mail/PM.

Lots of things to consider, particularly with location, and antagonism to local custom. Also the role of chaplain in schools has shifted in the last 50 years quite drastically.

 

#13:  Author: caz, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:29 am

I don't actually know much about the role of a chaplain in a school, but it has occurred to me that possibly Joey supplied the pastoral side of things: someone slightly outside but still involved with the school who could look after the girls. If there was a chaplain, would she feel usurped?

 

#14:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:50 pm

I think Jo's reaction to the appointment of a female Chaplain would be negative at best, hostile at worst, because she converted to Catholicism when she married Jack, and the RC attitude to priestesses is pretty horrendous.

BTW: I don't like the term 'women priests' because we already have a perfectly good word in our language, 'Priestess'

 

#15:  Author: Angel, Location: London, England PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:07 pm

We have a better word.

"Priest" - it doesn't need qualifying. And women as priests - I suggest reading Lavinia Byrne: Woman at the Altar and The Journey is my Home. Both are wonderful wonderful books, particularly exploring RC attitudes and arguments, and look at the historical role of women over the last fifty years. Journey is quite a quick read (it's her autobiography)

Angel

 

#16:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:24 pm

My objection was to the use of the word 'Women' in front of the word priest.
The meaning of 'priest is 'clergyman'.

What I really object to is the fact that we have a wonderful language heritage, but that nowadays, the ancient distinctions are becoming blurred in the service of Political Correctness. Hence, I prefer to use the word 'Priestess'.

 

#17:  Author: jackie green, Location: Rotherham PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:47 pm

Caroline OSullivan wrote:
In the CofE it was ten years ago that women could be ordained priests (they'd been allowed to be ordained deacons for sometime, not sure how long). There has been lots of articles about as it's the tenth anniversary this year.

yup, I will always remember it as the vicar who married my husband and I (no, i'm not the Queen, well, I am in this house) Quit the church the day after our wedding in protest of the ordination of women.
so My wedding anniversary coincides with the anniversary of women being ordained!

 

#18:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:00 pm

That's lovely, Jackie. the day the Synod debated the motion, we had the radio on in the staffroom, and when the decision was announced, all the women cheered, and all the men left the staffroom in disgust!

 

#19:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:08 pm

Jennie wrote:
Quote:
I think Jo's reaction to the appointment of a female Chaplain would be negative at best, hostile at worst, because she converted to Catholicism when she married Jack, and the RC attitude to priestesses is pretty horrendous

You're right about much of the hierarchy, but the only Catholic woman I've ever heard agree with them on this point was my grandmother, a generation older than Joey.* You should have heard the explosion in my faith-sharing group when the Pope welcomed those who defected from the Church of England over the issue! (He has also banned even discussion of ordination for women, so consider the lot of us heretics.)

*She also believed that Nixon was framed regarding Watergate, and that Franklin Roosevelt was evil incarnate.

 

#20:  Author: Sarah_L, Location: Redcar PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:25 pm

I'm intrigued as to the belief Nixon was framed. Shander, I'm afraid I know nothing that can help you, but a drabble exploring peoples' attitudes to women in the church would be interesting.

 

#21:  Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:24 pm

I too think this could be a very interesting drabble.

Knowing the school/Bettany/Maynard/Russell attitude to adopting 'waifs and strays' could see it being workable for the person to be from Canada especially when recommended by an ex pupil or someone known to the connection.

 

#22:  Author: Ciorstaidh, Location: London PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:22 pm

My opinion: it's a drabble. Go ahead and write it.

If it isn't historically accurate and it's out but fifty years, so be it. It sounds a viable idea - I honestly don't care in terms of the semantics of whether or not they'd be recognised, because it sounds like an entertaining drabble Very Happy

Go for it, Shander!

 

#23:  Author: claire, Location: SOUTH WALES PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:46 pm

Well said

 

#24:  Author: Shander, Location: Canada PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:47 pm

Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions. I'm going to start writing, but I'm going away for a week, so I won't get to post much. Hopefully, however, there will be lot's of shiny new drabble when I get back.

 

#25:  Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:19 pm

Goody goody - looking forward to it Shander

 

#26:  Author: Shander, Location: Canada PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 3:57 am

Thanks all for you patience. I am back, and got some drabble written, yay for airplanes.
A few disclaimers. I make no claims to the historical accuracy of this, other than a woman was ordained to the full order of ministry in the 1940's. This is set during the war years, but I don't have a where yet.
Also, my characters have invented a few of their own speeches, so if any Britishisms have been slaughtered, I'm very sorry. I think that's all.
So here's the story.

Nell Wilson and Hilda Annersly sat in the Headmistresses study, talking. They were waiting for a visitor, and were filling the time discussing the Chalet School's latest.
Madge Rusell had decided that it would be beneficial to the School to have full time staff members in charge of the spiritual side of the school. In addition, the school's numbers continued to increase and there was little room for the village churches for Sunday services.
After much discussion, it was decided that the school would hire two chaplaisn for the school, one Catholic and one Protestant. The Catholic Chaplain had been hired a few weeks previously. He was a kindly, gentle, old man, who was unable to serve in the war due to age and a bad leg. It was a candidate for the prtestant chaplaincy that Miss Wilson and miss Annersly were waiting for. They had finished disscussing the upcoming interview and had moved on to news of various friends and aquaintances, when a knock sounded at the door.
In response to Miss Annersly's "come in" One of the maids, Megan, entered, stating
"Miss, there's a lady here to see you. Syas she is the Revereand Jane Scowen."
Miss Annersly and Miss Wilons glanced at each other and Miss Annersly replied,
"Show her in Please, Megan."
When the door closed, Miss Wilson turned to Miss Annersly.
"I hate to say I told you so HIld, but I did.
Miss Annersly smiled at Miss Wilson,
"i know you did, but it seemed so perpostrous; and I was hoping that he, I mean she, would be suitable. As it is, I don't know what what we're going to do."
"I say, Hilda," Miss Wilson protested, "you don't mean to say that you've all ready decided against her. She's the best qualified of the lot. Give her a fair chance."
Whatever Miss Annersly might have said in reply to this was lost, and the sound of footsteps was hera in the corridor. A tap sound at the door and as Miss Annersly and Miss Wilson stood, Megan entered and annoyunced
"The Rev. Jane Scowen"
A woman of average height, dressed in a black suit, and wearing a clerical collar entered. She had blond hair cut in a bob, and clear pink and white sking, and while not excessivley pretty, she was attractive to look at.
"I'm glad you were able to come, the weather outside is terrible today. The school's owner, Lady Russell was called out unexpectedly, but she should join us soon.
The newcomer advanced, smiling and shook hands with both of them.
"It's a pleasure to meet you. I've heard nothing but wondeful things about the school."
"I'm glad to hear it. Now, shall we get down to business." This was Miss Annersly againt.
The interview that followed lasted for more than an hour, with Madge Russell joining them part way through.
Later, that evening, two conversation of note were taking place, one in Madge Russells pretty sitting room, and the other in a small hotel room, not far away.

 

#27:  Author: Angel, Location: London, England PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:01 am

ooooh, interesting beginning.

 

#28:  Author: Ciorstaidh, Location: London PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:23 pm

*Thank you, Shander!*

*begins the chant*

 

#29:  Author: caz, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:15 am

*joins chant*

 

#30:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:27 pm

Very interesting, so I'll join the chant for more.

 

#31:  Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 3:45 pm

This is beginning to look intersting Shander, as we did not see the interview in full are we to hear the two conversations?

 

#32:  Author: Sue, Location: Tunbridge Wells PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:07 pm

Just found this. The Congregational church in England, now part of the United rEformed church, and very similar to United church of Canada, ordained first woman way before other churches, I think around 1912. Hoever, at the time of the CS there wasn't the ecumenical tolerance there is today, and the sacramental understanding of those churches wasn't the same as the C of E. What the c of E did have was deaconesses, a sort of licensed lay order. There were also C of E nuns, and officers in the Church Army.

By the way whoever it was, Pat I think, the trouble with the word priestess is that it was used by the anti women's ordination group, as a slur, relating to the idea of high priestesss and witchcraft. So the word priest is used to emphasise that a woman priest is in no way inferior to a male priest. Some of course see the words women and priest to be impossible together.
I am going to a huge service on Sunday, to celebrate the first women in this diocese being priested 10 years ago this month!

A fascinating quandry for the school!

 

#33:  Author: LL, Location: Tottenham, London PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:04 pm

Oooh yes!
Looking good, Shander.
By the way *looks around* what is your real name?

 

#34:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 8:22 pm

Sue wrote:

By the way whoever it was, Pat I think, the trouble with the word priestess is that it was used by the anti women's ordination group, as a slur, relating to the idea of high priestesss and witchcraft. So the word priest is used to emphasise that a woman priest is in no way inferior to a male priest.
A fascinating quandry for the school!


Wasn't me Sue! I wouldn't use the term Priestess. We have Ministers in the Methodist Church - very usefully neutral! Also had a woman as President of Conference for a year - which is head of the Methodist Church, and rotates annually.

 

#35:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:32 pm

I was the one who was rooting for the word 'Priestess', simply because it is an ancient and valid word in our language, and I object to the fact that the anti-female brigade use the word priestess in a pejorative sense.

 

#36:  Author: Shander, Location: Canada PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 2:48 am

Very interesting discussion
Thanks for the post Sue. That information is really interesting.
Here's the next bit, thanks for your patience.

A heated discussion was taking place in the Russell's sitting room; or rather, it was heated on te part of Jem Russell. Madge was sitting in here chair, looking somewhat concerned, but otherwise serene, while Jem held forth.
"It' simply wrong Madge, and I can't allow it. The ministry is no place for a woman, and certainly not in a chool. What kind of example would that be for the girls. That a person can just go around flouting God's law. Which means she's either a heretic or a lunatic."
"At this, Madge held up a hand.
"Jem, I'm not sure what to say to you. She came highly reccommended and her refferences were excellent. We claim to be a school of many faiths, and I think it is time to demonstrate that. We're not bringing a trained monkey in, to supervise the girls. There are girl's in our school whose traditions allow for the ordination of women. Since we accept that, I see no reason why this is any different.
For pity's sake Jem, just because she's a woman, doesn't mean she can't do God's work.
"From our interview, she isn't going to push her ideas onto the firls or the staff, and she is in complete agreement with the most important of our ideals, including the emphasis placed on health and the role of the Sanotorium doctors. I will, of course, be checking her references, but I believe that she has a lot to offer.
"I don't want you to be angry with me Jem, and I don't want to disobey you; but it is my school and I must do what is best for it. The girls and the staff need someone to look after their spiritual life and their emotional welfare. The simple fact is that with the war on, there simply aren't many priests left, and those that there are are needed in the parishes. The girls are sustaining a good deal of grief and shock these days and they need a staff member that they can rely on exclusively, outside of their form mistresses. This is the job that she was trained for."
Jem saw both the appeal and the determination in his wife's eyes.
He sighed.
"All right Madge. I don't agree with it, but we'll give it a trial. "

 

#37:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 6:08 am

Good for Madge, sticking to her guns! It will be interesting to see how the rest of the school reacts. Thanks, Shander.

 

#38:  Author: Angel, Location: London, England PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 9:25 am

Go Madge

 

#39:  Author: caz, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 10:27 am

I love the way Madge has thought so carefully about this. And good for Jem for having the grace to let Madge make decisions about her school! i'm wondering how some parents will react, though...

 

#40:  Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 12:43 pm

this is excellent Shander - it seems so feasible


oh yes - more please Very Happy

 

#41:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 12:47 pm

Good for Madge for reminding Jem that it is her school, not his.

 

#42:  Author: LL, Location: Tottenham, London PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 1:42 pm

great! good on Madge! Very Happy

 

#43:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:34 pm

What makes Jem an expert on the subject of education? IMHO he should stick to medicine and leave the school to those who know about teaching and pastoral care.

 

#44:  Author: AotN,  PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:36 pm

Drabble Bouncing Wink

 

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