The CBB :: View topic - Universities

#1: Universities Author: caz, Location: Cambridge

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:27 am

I've just been moved to wonder how the Chalet Girls chose universities, and how they applied. There's no indication they go off to interviews/open days, or even that they ever fill in an application form. Or did the whole process used to work differently?

#2: Author: Cazx, Location: Swansea/Bristol

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:48 am

They only really seemed to go to Oxford didn't they? I can't think of any of them going anywhere else, oh but didn't Juliet go to uni in London?
And how did the whole scholarship thing work? Surely the uni has the right to say who gets in.

#3: Author: caz, Location: Cambridge

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:17 am

Juliet went to Royal Holloway, London. And Margot plans to go to Edinburgh for medicine.
I suppose the scholarship would pay the fees if the girl had a place at one of the named universities. If she was awarded the scholarship she was presumably bright enough to get to the unisversity of her choice, and was perhaps given extra coaching to increase their chances.

#4: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:59 am

Simone went to the Sorbonne. Several people went to London University. Then there were the Games people. But I agree that the majority went to Oxford.

#5: Author: Cumbrian Rachel, Location: near High Wycombe

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:12 am

shows their good taste Wink

#6: Author: Alice, Location: London, England

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:49 pm

Miss Wilson went to the School of Economics (I'm presuming LSE)

#7: Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!!

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:23 pm

Lots of the games people went to Bedford College.

I think lots of the girls got in through scholarships, but it does seem to be very easy for them to get in. In the later books we see the triplets taking GCE's but do they ever take A-Levels (or equivilent?)

#8: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:17 pm

They do mention School Certificate and Matriculation.

#9: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:55 pm

Alice wrote:

Miss Wilson went to the School of Economics (I'm presuming LSE)

So did Ilonka Barcokz.

#10: Author: Cazx, Location: Swansea/Bristol

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:10 pm

Do we ever hear any more about Lonny after that?

#11: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:23 pm

Nary a peep - except in Peace.

#12: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Redcar

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:00 am

Did she actually get to go the LSE, or did the war prevent her from doing so?

#13: Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!!

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:01 am

*sighs* yet more tantalising details emerge about Peace!!

Lonny is mentioned at LSE in Goes to It, so I imagine the war didn't interfere there.

#14: Author: Abi, Location: Alton, Hants

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:29 pm

I'm following in Juliet's footsteps (well, not with regard to subject) Very Happy

#15: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Redcar

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:24 pm

Before the CS had an exam centre, did the universities simply accept the girls on the strength of reports from teachers? Was this generally common in those days?

#16: Author: pim, Location: the place where public transport doesn't work properly!

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:19 pm

I'm sure there was something in 'Joey & Co in Tirol' when they first met the Richardsons and either Jack or Joey asks Roddy/Roger (I always mix them up - which is the eldest?) which university/ies his father has him entered for/name down for... I may have got that confused in my brain, 'specially as it's been a while since I read it, but I just didn't understand that at all

#17: Author: Liss, Location: Harrow, London

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:55 pm

KB wrote:

Alice wrote:

Miss Wilson went to the School of Economics (I'm presuming LSE)

So did Ilonka Barcokz.

Did she? When did that happen?

#18: Author: claire, Location: SOUTH WALES

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:11 pm

It's mentioned in At War that she's studying there

#19: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:11 pm

This was the quote, Liss:

Ilonka Barkocz is at the School of Economics in London, taking a course there, and when she has finished, she tells me that she hopes to get a post as a lecturer at one of the smaller English universities. As you all heard last term, Monsieur Barkocz died at Christmas, so Madame Barkocz is coming to England with Irma, who will go to the Royal College of Music.

#20: Author: Donna, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:01 pm

wouldn't entry be a university specific exam though? Especially for Oxford? they might have sent the papers out to the CS so the girls could sit it. They wouldn't need to be an exam centre for that. Although I suspect money was a major influencing factor in acceptance, at any uni.

#21: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:35 am

pim wrote:

Is this the part you mean?
Roger:

Quote:

“Oh, I’m going in for civil engineering. I want my B.Sc. first, and then practical work and other diplomas.”

Joey:

Quote:

“Oh, well, that should be easy enough to arrange. You bag Jack for a natter about universities. Has your dad put you down for anywhere? Not? Then Jack will see to it. Any idea what Roddy wants?”

#22: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:13 am

I suspect that they may be paying their own fees! Certainly in the 60s there was an Oxbridge Entrance Exam, and you had to have done Latin to go to either AFAIK. I think you used to apply to individual universities then if you were getting a Grant - you certainly did for the Polytechnics.

#23: Author: Cazx, Location: Swansea/Bristol

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:17 am

KB wrote:

is coming to England with Irma, who will go to the Royal College of Music.

I never knew Ilonka had a sister, is she in the Tyrol books?

#24: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:46 am

No, she's first mentioned in "Goes To It".

#25: Author: Cazx, Location: Swansea/Bristol

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:11 am

Is that her one and only mention?

#26: Author: Rachel, Location: Plotting in my lair; sometimes in Hampshire, England, UK, Europe, Earth, Milky Way, Universe

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:17 am

According to CS A-Z, it is.

EBDism - ooops forgot she doesn't have a sister/has a sister/doesn't have a sister ?

Mind you, "Goes to It" is Ilonka's last mention apart from the third newletter, so after that it doesn;t really matter whether or not she has a sister!

#27: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:01 pm

Considering that 'Lonny' is really the least 'real' of the Quintet (in that one hears little or nothing about her home life or future), I imagine EBD was trying to compensate for that in some way when she wrote that part.

#28: Author: pim, Location: the place where public transport doesn't work properly!

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:05 pm

Kathy_S wrote:

pim wrote:

Is this the part you mean?
Roger:

Quote:

“Oh, I’m going in for civil engineering. I want my B.Sc. first, and then practical work and other diplomas.”

Joey:

Quote:

“Oh, well, that should be easy enough to arrange. You bag Jack for a natter about universities. Has your dad put you down for anywhere? Not? Then Jack will see to it. Any idea what Roddy wants?”

Yes that would be it Kathy! Thank you *g* Still don't understand how it worked though.

I miss my books Crying or Very sad

#29: Author: claire, Location: SOUTH WALES

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:02 pm

Jack had studied at Oxford so maybe he could have got Roger in

#30: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Redcar

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:23 pm

Was it very much a case of 'who you knew' back then?

#31: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:53 pm

Oh yes, very much so! Especially if you could pay all the fees instead of needing a grant from your county.

#32: Author: Sugarplum, Location: second star to the right!

Posted: Sat May 01, 2004 9:48 pm

It was a case of not what you knew but who you knew to a certain extent I think but I presumed people who went to Oxford/ Cambridge would have taken entrance exams to get a place as well as references from school.
I know there were a couple of girls in the year above me who took entrance exams to get into Oxford and these results counted as well as their A level results. I think they have stopped that now though ?

#33: Author: Rachael,

Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 1:25 pm

Yes - there used to be seventh term for people attempting Oxbridge entrance - after completing their A-levels, (two years = 6 terms), candidates would come back for an extra term to prepare ....

Must have been hideous!
Especially of you didn't get in Rolling Eyes

#34: Author: Carolyn P, Location: Lancaster, England

Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 8:15 pm

When I was in 6th form those students who were doing the oxbridge STEP (seventh term enterence paper) actually did it 4th term, ie first term of upper sixth so they could process uni applications with everyone else ands not have to take a year out.

#35: Author: claire, Location: SOUTH WALES

Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 6:32 pm

When I was in sixth form a couple of people went in for oxford/cambridge and I think the same was done as with your school Carolyn, I know a boy in the year above me ended up in a right muddle when his offers came through - he needed two E's to get into Cambridge and his 'reserve' unis wanted higher grades

#36: Author: Mora, Location: Lancaster

Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 10:32 pm

Two E's to get into Cambridge?! Shocked

What was he studying? *curious*

#37: Author: Bel, Location: Cambridge

Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Sometimes if Cambridge really want someone after an interview, they will offer two Es to make sure they get them even if they mess up their A Levels.

It used to be much more common in the days of dodgy interviews, but now that everything is closely regulated it is much more rare, although I do know a girl who graduated last summer who came to Cambridge on a two Es offer.

#38: Author: lizarfau, Location: Melbourne

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 12:02 am

Ilonka Barkocz is at the School of Economics in London, taking a course there, and when she has finished, she tells me that she hopes to get a post as a lecturer at one of the smaller English universities. As you all heard last term, Monsieur Barkocz died at Christmas, so Madame Barkocz is coming to England with Irma, who will go to the Royal College of Music.[/quote]

I'd forgotten this about Ilonka and her family. At the time, it struck me as odd that Nazi-occupied Hungary would have allowed Mme Barcoca and Irma to go to England that easily. It also strikes me as odd that Lonny would be at LSE during the war - surely she would have been back in Hungary after the CS left Tyrol and not allowed to study in England? It's nice to know nothing bad happened to them all, though I don't think things would have worked out so neatly for them in real life.

#39: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 3:58 am

I have a memory of them not finding it easy. They were recalled by the Germans and refused to go, so if they had returned, they would have been arrested immediately. (Or am I thinking of someone else?)

#40: Author: caz, Location: Cambridge

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 8:20 am

I thought that was Marie and her husband, who were in America at the time of the Anschluss, but it could have been the case for Ilonka and her family as well.

#41: Author: claire, Location: SOUTH WALES

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:38 pm

Mora wrote:

Two E's to get into Cambridge?! Shocked

What was he studying? *curious*

As Bel said - they wanted him there so didn't care what he did in his exams - I think he was studying English, he would be 26 now so would have graduated a few years ago

#42: Author: PatMac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:56 pm

Some of the public schools, like Winchester, got boys into Oxbridge through the old boys network. Even today, Oxbridge is seen as out of the reach of many state school pupils. See link below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/749294.stm

#43: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Redcar

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:24 pm

I'm from a very bad state school, and I made it to Oxford. I'm at Magdalen too, which has a reputation as being one of the private/public school strongholds. I've never felt discriminated against because of my background, though there are things the others had at their old schools, like speech days, debating societies, pushing for exam results etc that I never experienced. The one thing I do feel strange at is being a north-easterner at Magdalen. I remember asking my tutor at dinner in freshers week how many north-easterners there were at Magdalen and his response was "Quite a few, about five or six(!)".

#44: Author: Rachael,

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 10:46 am

It's an interesting point about discrimination as that works both ways - I saw it on my first day at Nottingham uni but against public/private schools

I'd chummed up with someone (still good mates today!) and we were eating supper with another girl who I realised was on the same course as me. She spent the entire meal slagging off people who came from "posh" schools and then proceeded to ask us where we came from?!!
Maybe I should have been more upfront (I would today!!) but I hedged round the question, making a mental note not to tell anyone about my school until I knew they liked me for who I was, not which school I came from. In fact, I did not tell my close bunch of friends that I went to boarding school until almost the end of the first term ... and they were so surprised!!

That girl was such a cow - I have a vivid memory of her even now - a year later she spent most of the night flirting blatantly with someone who I fancied and had hopes about going out with - I'd more or less given up on him when he finally managed to extricate himself from her clutches and came and asked me out ... oh yes!! Her face was a picture and I took a very real and very evil delight in seeing her get her comeuppance for being such a prize b*tch ... Very Happy

(Yes, I know that's not very charitable but she spoilt my first few days because I rely though that everyone would hate me if they found out I hadn't come from a state school!!)

#45: Author: Lesley, Location: Rochester, Kent

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 10:56 am

Good for you Rachael! Laughing

Hope you gloated good and hard!

#46: Author: PatMac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 11:31 am

I agree snobbishness works both ways! Look at the pride public figures (especially some politicians) take in their working class backgrounds!

*Cheers Rachael loudly for giving that stupid girl her comeuppance*

#47: Author: Rachael,

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 11:32 am

A state I believe I have perfected, Lesley Wink

#48: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:53 pm

People like that really aren't worth bothering about, Rachael.

#49: Author: Catriona, Location: South Yorkshire

Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 6:59 pm

But don't you think that sometimes people without much experience of life can be very judgemental and self-obsessed because they are just not very mature?

#50: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 10:50 pm

You are probably right, Catriona. Another reason, perhaps, is that they think that having a strong opinion and expressing it very forcefully will get them noticed and bring lots of friends their way.

#51: Author: Angel, Location: London, England

Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:25 pm

Interesting fact about the LSE - it was evacuated to Cambridge during the war, and was housed in Peterhouse Hostel. There is a plaque to commemorate this.

As for EE offers - I got one from Durham, and AAAB from Cambridge. It's made to people they really want, and think will suit the course. Sometimes it's given to people that they want, but they know have problems at home or need to have the pressure taken off. I came into all of them.

Friends got given them after internal college exams at Christ's and one other college. Christ's also has the highest number of firsts in the university.

Old Boys - well the biggest snobs at my college were those that went to State Schools in London - the wealthy schools that are selective. Most of the Union were similar sorts - ex-State School. I went to a minor public school on a scholarship, and I can get very precious about my experiences of both uni and school. Just because one person has a particular experience/perception of them, doesn't mean that everyone else does.

#52: Author: Sue, Location: Tunbridge Wells

Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 6:22 pm

Back to the EE as entrance. It's really the highest accolade a uni can give.They are not allowed to accept anyone with less than this, so basically it's yes, we want you. The richest of the rich, or even I believe royals, can't get in without that as a minimum. I don't know about overseas students though. (I think this law is more recent than EBD times)

#53: Ilonka Author: jane w,

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:57 pm

Goes to it is set in about 1940, and Hungary was under the Horthy govt then (ie not occupied by Nazi Germany but on the Axis side): Hungary wasn't invaded until 1944. This probably doesn't really explain how the Barcocz family eascaped, however: I doubt if travel from any Axis country was terribly practical!

#54: Author: James,

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:41 pm

Sue wrote:

Actually, it's possible to get in without A-levels. Sussex do 4-year degrees including a foundation year, others are even less discriminating - see here for a couple of examples.

#55: Author: Sue, Location: Tunbridge Wells

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:56 am

I think the foundation year can replace A's, but am not sure,and there are other things, like Higher GNVQ and so on. The ruling also doesn't apply to mature students.Over 25 used to be mature, but I'm not up to date on that.

#56: Author: Bel, Location: Cambridge

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:59 am

My friend has been offered a place at a 'mature' students college in Cambridge for September. She's only two years older than plently of first years who have taken a GAP year, and will be 21 when she starts. *keeping fingers crossed for her A Level results*

#57: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:14 pm

Keele University used to have a compulsory 4 year course, the first year being devoted to a general education, so the students had to take both Arts and Sciences for the first year. I don't know whether they still do this.

This often meant that students could get in with lower grades.

#58: EE offers Author: juliet,

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:29 pm

When I applied to Oxford (I started there in 1996, so this would have been the Christmas term of 1995), there were two routes in. Either you took the entrance exams in I think October or November and then went for interview (in late December) if you'd done well enough, in which case they would give you an EE offer; or you just went for interview, in which case you'd get a 'proper' grade offer. The theory was basically that the Oxford entrance exams were harder/more relevant to success at Oxford than A levels, so if you'd passed those OK they didn't care what A levels you got (although I suspect that in practice if you'd done shockingly badly your tutor would have wanted to have words with you when you came up, to check what had happened!). Most people (the vast majority, in fact) took the entrance exam & therefore got EE offers. I didn't (due to taking a peculiar Maths AL course that wouldn't have prepared me well for the exam), & was offered AAB (which thankfully I got!).

They abandoned the exam system a couple/few years ago (it was felt to disadvantage state school pupils because they'd be less likely to get special coaching for it), and now everyone just gets interviewed & is given a 'proper' grade offer. Although some subjects set 'informal written tests' during the 2 or 3 day interview period, or ask interviewees to bring/send up samples of written work. It's possible that the odd person still gets an EE offer, but it's not the norm as it was before the change in the system.

I get the impression that up until the 1960s or so Oxbridge entrance was something that could be obtained by connections/money, as well as by academic ability.

#59: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:29 am

A very correct impression. The rich andfamous never had any problems in putting their children down for the 'family' college.

#60: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Redcar

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:59 am

I think Oxford are moving more towards testing applicants again, though the tests aren't like the old entrance exams. When I applied for law (December 2000), Magdalen didn't do any sort of law test, but most of the other colleges did. I've heard that since then, the university law faculty has introduced a centralised test for all colleges.

The CBB -> Anything Else

output generated using printer-friendly topic mod, All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Page 1 of 1