Joey - a working mother
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#1: Joey - a working mother Author: SamanthaLocation: London PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:08 pm


Looking at the drabbles it seems that a lot of people think (or pretend to think for storylines) that Joey neglected her children for no good reason. As a full time working mother (by choice, I love my job and would never have quit - although I love my daughter massively too) I know that if I tried to work with my child around I would never get anything at all done. So I rather sympathise with Joey having others to help, and I don't really see how it's any different from any other working mother having child care. It's clear to me from the books that Joey loved her job and looking at the amount of effort in the (excellent) drabbles it can't exactly have been a part time thing to produce that many books. So I think she deserves a little bit of rehabilitation.

 


#2:  Author: Sarah_KLocation: St Albans PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:49 pm


You're right of course. I'm very guilty of it myself as I've been excusing Jack's absence in my drabble because he's been working but Joey is a neglectful mother (well she really is in my drabble but I see her as that anyway). I think one of the problems is that the children spend so much time away from her and yet it's her who gets all the praise for their upbringing. Plus she does send her boys away very early, more normal at the time maybe but not something most of the working mother's I know would do.

 


#3:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:26 am


I think in the drabbles we tend to overemphasise things to make them more fun. But, I also agree with Sarah - it is not so much the working mother thing that bugs me (mine was), but the fact that she is treated like a stay-at-home, fully involved in the daily care of her children mom.

You're one or the other (for the most part), but Joey accepts the best of both worlds.

 


#4:  Author: SugarplumLocation: second star to the right! PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:46 am


I think Jo wants to be thought of as a stay at home mum when it suits her and a working mum when it suits her too. She wouldn't want to be a stay at home mum with no help around the house lets be honest so being thought of as a working mum ...... does it make her feel like shes entitled to more help ??

 


#5:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:56 am


Samantha, we do give the impression that we have nothing but scorn for Jo, but there was a thread on which we said what we admired about her - now where's it gone? Someone?

 


#6:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:15 am


Under Books & Characters. It's S.R.J., Society for the Redemption of Joey. Do join!

 


#7:  Author: PatMacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:04 am


I'm as guilty of that as anyone! I worked full time from when my second child went to school and it was hectic - though I chose to do it. I don't regret it, though it was uncommon when my children were small.

It's fairly unrealistically portrayed, though. She has this enormous house with room to devote the attic to the boys' trainset. Room for guests and the triplets' room has three beds and still room to choose where to put the beds! She works in her own study, not her child's bedroom. Yet, she appears to have only Anna and Rösli to help.

Although she works, she seems to have lots of free time, and I think Sugarplum and Chelsea hit the nail on the head it by saying she seems to choose the best of both worlds.

It's the sheer perfection of the situation that bugs us, I think. How does she do it? We don't quite believe it so we write it as we reckon it would have been. She's just too perfect!

And it's fun.

 


#8:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:41 pm


Kathy_S wrote:
Under Books & Characters. It's S.R.J., Society for the Redemption of Joey. Do join!


Thank you. I knew it was initials, I just couldn't remember what they were.

 


#9:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:43 pm


I think we criticise Joey as a mother, partly because of all the mothers in EBD's books she is lucky enough to work, and manage her children. Therefore she is automatically different to all the others mothers, and this helps establish her position as supermum. But its when you read the books with this in mind, that you become aware of all the delegating she did.

 


#10:  Author: claireLocation: SOUTH WALES PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:26 pm


I would agree in that I think the reason Jo gets a lot of stick is due to the way EBD makes out she does all the work herself plus the writing, childcare etc. If when someone asked her 'how do you do it, Jo?' she replied 'Anna and Rosli do most of it so I can get on with my writing' I'd have less problem with it.

 


#11:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:22 am


Claire, I think that makes a lot of sense!

 


#12:  Author: ChloëLocation: London: when away from home planet! PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:08 pm


I know it is possible for people to do it without the help though Joey does tend to leave it most to Anna or Rosli as my friend is one of 13 children and his dad's a GP and his mum's owns and runs a music school.

 


#13:  Author: claireLocation: SOUTH WALES PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:08 pm


You can work, have several children (admittedly not many of us get to 13) etc but most mothers in that situation would be the first to admit it can be hard work and this is nowadays when we have a lot of labour saving devices such as washing machines as the amount of washing a family of 15 must generate would be huge

 


#14:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Redcar PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:00 am


PatMac wrote:

It's the sheer perfection of the situation that bugs us, I think. How does she do it? We don't quite believe it so we write it as we reckon it would have been. She's just too perfect!


You know, I think Pat has got that exactly right. Joey's situation, in fact her whole life, does seem perfect, and therefore we find it hard to accept and so exaggerate bits of it in the drabbles.

 


#15:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:19 pm


My opinion towards Madge has actually changed more than that towards Joey. Madge always was displayed as the pinnicle of goodness, and so therefore her children, and her neices and nephews were all well looked after. But her treatment of Sybil, and later Josette, by denying them further education to go to Australia, seems to bely this.

 


#16:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:41 pm


Grrr to Madge. The whole Sybil thing has turned me against her. I loved her in the books up to Exile. She changed TOTALLY. Must have been Jem's influence. GRRR. Twisted Evil

 


#17:  Author: LesleyLocation: Rochester, Kent PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:22 pm


Agreed Kate - I always felt it was a great pity - EBD had created a strong woman, someone girls of the 1920's and 30's could identify with and use as a role model - this woman had moved to a foreign country and started a viable business. Then what happens? She gets married and appears to donate her free will to the local teaching hospital!

I wonder if even EBD recognised what she had done later - Joey's comments about her sister being in danger of turning into 'that nice Lady Russell' before she went to Canada?

 


#18:  Author: pip_penguinLocation: Melbourne PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:46 pm


*agrees with recent posts, and adds to Kate's "grr"*

I also really liked Madge in the books until about Exile, but I really dislike her past about then. Particularly since I've recently re-read School At, in which I think she's a great character. As Lesley just said, a great role model -- a strong woman. And then she gets married.

I'm also frusterated with Adult Joey (I think it's her perfection, I find it hard to believe... I much prefer schoolgirl Joey), but not as much as I am with Madge. Grr.

 


#19:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:07 pm


Lesley wrote:
I wonder if even EBD recognised what she had done later - Joey's comments about her sister being in danger of turning into 'that nice Lady Russell' before she went to Canada?


Except that the bits of her we see after that don't show a great deal of difference. I suppose EBD had to weigh up the fact that Madge was quite a bit older in the later books and so had to think about her dignity.

 


#20:  Author: Lisa_TLocation: Belfast PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:37 pm


But Joey does credit Anna and Rosli. Drabbles aside, I'm sure I remember her mentioning it. Then again, she's always going on about their workload. If she really cared about that she and Jack would practice and little abstinence and stop having more kids!
..which brings us on to another point. They're Catholics. How is it that every time Jo says, 'I fancy another baby' lo and behold she's pregnant a few weeks later. That seems to indicate a certain amount of family planning.... Wink

 


#21:  Author: claireLocation: SOUTH WALES PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:46 pm


Couple of suggestions
1) it's her way of indicating that she is in the early stages of pregnancy and this is her way of paving the way (and making everyone else think she gets her own way immediately)
2) it's the only time she allows Jack in the room, otherwise he's in his dressing room
3) her kids are fairly close so she breastfeeds to stop ovulation until she fancies the next (don't think it's likely to be this one though)
4) some people are very good at the natural family planning and maybe Jack does the withdrawal method - I THINK thats ok with catholics - anyone know for definate?

 


#22:  Author: PatMacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:14 am


I'm not up to date on the Catholic teaching now but in Joey's time, abstinence was the only method approved. Then the rhythm method was accepted - temperature checking so as to miss the ovulation period - and it was very hit or miss.

Odd though, that the families with lots of children were in general the poorer ones and less well educated. I certainly recall the more professional end of the congregation - doctors and the like - generally had two children, nicely spaced Rolling Eyes

I'm inclined to think that Claire's number one suggestion is the most likely. Or that Jack chose the dressing room as a method of avoiding having even more!

 


#23:  Author: HelenLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:27 am


[ But her treatment of Sybil, and later Josette, by denying them further education to go to Australia, seems to bely this.[/quote]

Josette does go to Sydney University though as she married at 19 I guess she must had dropped out.

I thought it funny that in one book Madge should bewail the fact that none of her daughters are sweet and feminine. What happened Madge?

 


#24:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:47 pm


Too much influence from her Aunty Jo perhaps?

 


#25:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Redcar PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:05 pm


I never realised Josette went to Sydney University.

 


#26:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:12 pm


I don't, somehow, see Madge as having been a quiet and gentle girl herself.

 


#27:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:55 pm


Perhaps that shows how much she had changed?

 


#28:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Redcar PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:39 pm


There's a story somewhere about Madge's schooldays isn't there?

 


#29:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:21 am


Yes. It's here.

 




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