Classics at the CS
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#1: Classics at the CS Author: cazLocation: Cambridge PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:49 pm


Some random musings: was there ever (apart from the notorious Miss Bubb) a teacher who actually specialised in teaching Latin and Greek? Considering Latin was, for many years, a requirement for Oxbridge, do we hear enough about the lessons? Apart from a brief mention in Carola, is there any indication that anyone actually learns Greek? Pupils who were classically minded included Tom Gay and Stacie - any others spring to mind? In Wins the Trick, some girls (including Len) are mentioned as being about to take a Latin exam... Oh, and there is of course Joey's quotation from the Aeneid at the end of Exile.

Classics was, of course, thought to be a mark of a gentleman's education, but/therefore much of the corpus of English literature (probably up to the middle of the twentieth century) expected at least knowledge of the classical myths.

That's all a bit rambling - anyone want to pick up on any of it?


#2:  Author: LulaLocation: Midlands, UK PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:57 pm


They obviously learnt Latin, and always had done, because in Gay, Joey was brought in to teach Latin to the younger ones, thus she must have learnt it...


#3:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: Devon PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:34 pm


Sorry, I can't answer any of these questions but on a related yibble, as I know we have many teachers on this board, what's the deal with learning classics nowadays? I did it at school as an extra (I went to a state church girls school) but it was very restricted and you had to be asked to join. I think that's a real shame as it is so helpful in learning other languages, so I wonder if anyone knows if it is still generally taught?


#4:  Author: jackie greenLocation: Rotherham PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:55 pm


I read an article about the teaching of the classic languages in last weeks (23rdMay) Sunday Times. apparently they are declining each year in popularity. I have searched for the article for you but the Times only archives for a week after that you have to pay to access, sorry Sad


#5:  Author: cazLocation: Cambridge PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:16 pm


Classics is generally perceived as an 'extra' subject, I think, to be taught if the timetable allows and if there are enough teachers. So, more likely to be taught at private schools than state schools because of funding issues. Also Classics has (unnecessary) connotations of being 'hard' and thus only for bright pupils. This image is sometimes fostered by classicists, but often attributed by outsiders as well. This probably came about because of it being taught a lot at public schools, and the Oxbridge connection. I guess there is a point that Classics wouldn't be taught to youngsters who were struggling with more basic skills, nor perhaps to those who would leave school for a job as soon as they could. It is also one of those subjects not perceived as 'useful' at university level (please consider as read my rant about Charles Clarke - a philosophy graduate if you please), very few universities actually offer it (so less teachers...). On the plus side, there is an initiative to introduce Latin into (state) schools at primary level:
http://www.minimus-etc.co.uk/index.shtml

Sorry if this is more info than you expected - it came up in my course last year.


#6:  Author: LulaLocation: Midlands, UK PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:21 pm


Just to add, I go to a state school (grammar school though) and am one of 15 in my year of 95 learning Latin.


#7:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:16 pm


Stacie returned to teach at the CS - didn't she teach classics or did I just assume that?


#8:  Author: LulaLocation: Midlands, UK PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:21 pm


Ann wrote:
Stacie returned to teach at the CS - didn't she teach classics or did I just assume that?


No, she taught classics, because in Prefects, Jack Lambert is fretting about what Dr Benson will say about the fact that she's out of bed the night before her Latin...


#9:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:29 pm


Latin is mentioned as being taught a few times, Im sure Julie Berne also teaches it. Even though Joey is a whizz at languages, Im not sure its ever stated she learns Latin at school?? I don't think Greek was as popular.

At college only 2 people wanted to do A-Level latin so the class never happened. I took Classical Civilisation, and I don't think thats all that common either.


#10:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:41 pm


One of my sons who's at a private school (cos of dyslexia support) should have done Latin in year 7 - just 1 class a week with no homework, just to help them with the roots of other languages etc.
Matty was quite upset that he had to miss it as that's when his 1:1 language support class was.

I had to do it for 3 years at my school and HATED it totally utterly and completely


#11:  Author: jackie greenLocation: Rotherham PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:10 pm


always thought Miss Annersley had the seniors for Latin, or am I imagining things?


#12:  Author: MissPrintLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:13 pm


I loved Latin and Greek at school (but then, I know I'm far from normal). My daughter did not get the opportunity to do Latin, though I think she'd have vastly preferred it to Accounting and Finance and Economics, all modules in her first two years at High School. A friend coached his son in Latin himself as it was not available at his school, but I think my daughter would have rebelled if I'd tried that stunt. Latin is so useful, for understanding references in literature, for an appreciation of our language and other romance languages and for acquiring gramatical and analytical skills. I think it's sad that the state schools in my city do not offer it. Possibly it might be available as a college module in the sixth form, along with assorted -ologies, and other things the school doesn't teach.

Maybe EBD was not gifted at Latin and that's why people tend to only mention Latin to moan about reading Caesar, or Livy. Except Eustacia and Tom, who liked it.


#13:  Author: DonnaLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:14 am


At my school (independent girls' school) we started Latin in second year - the whole year took it for 2nd and 3rd years. It was a choice at GCSE and A-Level. They also offered Classical Civilisation (which I really wanted to do) for GCSE, but only 3 people wanted to do it so it got cancelled. I was also offered the opportunity to study Ancient Greek in the lunchtimes - 2 of us did that!

At my brother's school (selective boys' state school, though it used to pretend to be a comprehensive, although it did take a fair number of boys on their sporting prowess) only those who did well in their English exam in first year could go on to take Latin in second year - and even then it was optional. I don't know what the rest of the year did at that time, as my brother did do Latin. There was no other classics option.

It's nigh on impossible to find a state school teaching classics now, although I do occasionally see ads in the TES for them. I think it's a real pity, as my Latin helped me enormously with English, French and even German (because even though the languages had different roots they had similar grammar rules). I loved Latin as well! Then again, i can just imagine the faces of some of my current pupils if they were told they were about to start Latin!


#14:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:47 am


In my state school system ( Maryland, 1970s), Latin was offered from grades 9-12 and was one of my favorite classes. (My only "sport" at school was the Latin Scrabble team.) The U. of Maryland also taught both Latin and Greek -- according to the then head of department because, without classics, they wouldn't have been allowed a chapter of Phi Beta Kappa, the honor society. However, there weren't that many majors and hence few advanced classes -- I remember one with 2 students, compared to well over 100 in biochemistry and 60 or so in the evil but required for biochem majors quantum mechanics class. (never ever dared to skip Latin prep, as it was certain I'd be reciting.) I assume it's still taught at least as an elective in high schools here, since some of my advisees at university come in with Advanced Placement.


#15:  Author: jackie greenLocation: Rotherham PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:19 am


I was one of the last people in Doncaster to go through my school career in the Grammar school, it was beginning it's changeover to a comprehensive. I took Latin in the third year and Latin and Greek were options for O and A level. i also took Ancient History A level coverig Greek and Roman history/literature. I loved it.
My daughter goes to an Ex Grammar here in Rotherham and as it is a specialised Language college Latin and Greek (i think)are avaialbe. Definately Latin as the headmistress told me Latin is an invaluable tool for teaching Italian and Spanish.


#16:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:45 pm


Very few state schools now teach either Latin or Greek, it is now mainly the province of independent schools. If you don't want to do either at 'A' level, there is an 'A' Level in Classical Civilisation.

I did four years of Latin and loved it.

Latin is the base language for what are now known as the Romance languages, French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian, etc., but English has also taken loan words from Latin, for example, tenacious as opposed to stubborn which has an Anglo-Saxon root.


#17:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:14 pm


When did Latin stop being a requirement for entry to Oxford and Cambridge??? If it was required the girls would have obviously had to learn it!!


#18:  Author: VikkiLocation: Possibly in hell! It's certainly hot enough....... PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:49 pm


When I started secondary school (state grammar) we had a choice of doing either Latin or German. I chose German because of the CS......


#19:  Author: CharlotteLocation: North Wales (until September!) PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:55 pm


I did latin since I was eight, but when I changed schools It was all repeating it but I'm still going in for GCSE!!!


#20:  Author: pimLocation: the place where public transport doesn't work properly! PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:56 pm


I never learnt Latin at school but when I did Italian in my first year at uni my friend made much more progress than me because she had done Latin to A-level. I've since started to teach myself it, it's wonderful - like unravelling a puzzle working out which bits belong to what. But I'm mad about my languages so...


#21:  Author: AngelLocation: London, England PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:12 pm


I want to do Latin, Greek and Hebrew at some point, as I did Latin for Five years and Greek for one and loved them both, but want to refresh it.

Harry Potter has apparently increased interest in Latin, because of the references (it helps that it's available in Latin and Greek). I'm going to buy the Latin and Greek editions to try and help me brush up a bit.


#22:  Author: DonnaLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:03 pm


I've only just found out that Harry Potter comes in Latin, and I'd love to get hold of it - but I can't remember ever seeing it in a shop.

*goes off to search Amazon*


#23:  Author: AngelLocation: London, England PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm


Waterstones carries it.


#24:  Author: RosieLocation: Huntingdonshire PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:28 pm


I really want to do Latin! And possibly Greek. My school (state, ex-grammar) used to teach up til the mid-80s I think. I know my French teacher used to teach Latin, and he often used it to help us with french vocab - croissants and crescents being a particularly popular one!! One of my friends is hoping to go to Oxford to do Classical Archeology and Ancient History next year, and whilst Latin A level is required, she has been told she has to be up to GCSE standard by October... I'm HOPING I can find some way to take it in some form as a subsid subject - either that or Welsh!


#25:  Author: Sarah_KLocation: St Albans PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:44 pm


I did Latin GCSE at school but all our lessons were out of school time (lunchtimes or after school) as it was very much an extra option. We also did the exam a year later than our other GCSEs. Then again I can remember very little latin, the lessons were fantastic and we covered a wide range of subjects from myths and legends to politics. My teacher was amazing but I'm afraid my latin was all learnt in my short term memory the day before the exam...


#26:  Author: LulieLocation: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:28 pm


Latin was very much an extra at my school, the lessons were before and after normal school hours. I had enough trouble trying to manage my other lessons without taking on anything extra (other than drama, which didn't count!!). If it had been called Classics, and incoporated more than just learning the language I may have thought more. As it was, my best friend did it and said it was sooooooo boring, just like learing any other laguage, but worse!


#27:  Author: MissPrintLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:45 pm


I had a nice conversation about Classics with a twelve year old boy at his grandfather's funeral recently. He is at a very, very posh private school, and is already studying Latin, and hopes to take up Greek as well. So, there will still be a few classicists being produced. He hopes to go to Oxbridge, and knowing the school, he probably will. Those boys are groomed for greater things from kindergarten. They are able to make the same effortless assumptions as the Chaletians seem to have done with regards to their university careers.


#28:  Author: asgaardLocation: Scotland PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:36 am


I dropped Geography, well, most of it to do Latin. I loved it. Was gutted when it came to GCSE, I chose it as did 4 others and we needed 6 people to do the course, could we bribe, bully or anything 2 extra people, no, so we couldn't do it.

Heather


#29:  Author: RosieLocation: Huntingdonshire PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:47 am


I was the subject of bribing and bullying like that in order for there to be AS German! However, seeing as the my classmates would be 1: a girl with a German mother, 2: one with a Swiss father, 3: a South African (and there ARE a lot of similarities between Africaans and German, and she'd been doing the language a lot longer than me!), and 4: the school genius (she's great fun, but not great for your confidence!) I refused! I don't mind being the dunce occasionally, or even quite a lot, but it DOES get rather depressing if it is ALL the time. (There were other reasons btw!) The first 3 did the course, but it was dropped after AS and I'm not sure that there is even an AS class this year.


#30:  Author: Rachael PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:15 am


I did Latin to A-level and enjoyed it, especially the literature, and I do find it useful for all sorts of things ...

Had to laugh at hubby whilst staring at stained glass windows with inscriptions in French cathedral - he said he was struggling with translating the oldy-worldy French - I had to explain that was because it was actually Latin!!

Funny, asgaard - at my school Latin seemed to clash with Geography too - I think Geography would have been quite interesting but the teacher was dire so it wasn't a difficult decision to make!

ETA - You can't beat a good ablative absolute, can you?!!


#31:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:37 pm


My juniour school taught no languages except English. Though I passed the 11+ I didn't do well enough to go to the High School but went to a Secondary Modern. We learnt French for first three years but could drop it at GCE. I dropped it cos I hated it, we were taught all the grammar rules but not much conversation. Looking back I wonder why we didn't have more conversation as I think thta would have made it easier to learn.

 




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