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#1: Joey's family Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Second star to the right

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:15 pm
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OK, so the odds are that EBD did not write the last two books...I do buy into that theory. But I have always thought that EBD never intended Joey to stop at 13 children, and would have finished her off (perhaps quite literally thinking about it) with more - maybe even those quads. What do other people think?

#2: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:18 pm
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I think so too. After all she still wasn't that old at the end of the books was she? Still time for more kids anyway.

#3: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:21 pm
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Joey had 11 children of her own - or are you including adoptees?

As for having quads - not sure, at the end of the series Joey would have been nearly 40 or 41 (depending on whether you agree that Joey was nearly 21 or 22 when the Triplets were born! Plenty of time for her to have another one or two after-thoughts. Quads were very rare - however she had a history of multiple birth and this tends to increase (I think) as a woman gets older. It's possible - either that or EBD would have taken it to the next generation and let Len have them! Laughing

#4: Author: leahbelle, Location: Kilmarnock

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:03 pm
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I definitely think she might have gone on to have another set of twins, but I think quads would be unlikely. I think that was more of a running joke than anything EBD ever intended to be serious. Would have been amusing though, to see Joey trying to cope with four small babies, though no doubt she'd have foisted them off on Rosli as usual!!

#5: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:07 pm
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*agrees with leahbelle*

There were definitely pregnancy hints in Althea and Prefects (even if EBD didn't write those books, I'd say that's a part that would be there if she did, if that makes sense!). But I'd say quads would be too far - triplets were sensational enough.

#6: Author: macyrose, Location: Great White North (Canada)

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:20 pm
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In Redheads there's the following exchange between Jo and Hilda:

Quote:

Oh, dear! How I hate losing my babies! I shall have to begin to think seriously about those quads I promised you all – how many years ago? Six, I believe. I've had Cecil and those two since, but my quads are still to come."
"Joey Maynard, you have eleven children. Isn't that enough for you?"
"Jack thinks it is," Joey admitted. "He says we aren't millionaires and even though the girls don't cost us much if anything for education at present, with the triplets going all out for a university course and Steve preparing to take another in four or five years time, never to mention Charles and Mike coming along as well as the five youngest to consider, I suppose he's right. Of course, if Len wins her scholarship it will be a help and Steve, thank goodness, has won his. So we don't have to worry about his school fees for the next five years. Oh well! Time enough to worry about the small fry in ten years time."

Which makes it seem like while Jo might want to have more children, Jack wasn't so keen on it, so it seemed to me that Jo and Jack's family was complete.

Yet in Althea there's the following conversation, again between Jo and Hilda:

Quote:

“How right you are! I see I shall have to consider those quads I threatened you all with – how long ago, now? – nine years, isn’t it? Yes; nine years it is. The twins weren’t a year old and they’ll be nine in September. I shouldn’t mind now that Phil is practically on her feet again. I miss having a baby.”
“Aren’t eleven enough for you? Families of that size come expensive these days.”
“It’s not so bad as it sounds. The triplets and Steve have their own money that Grannie Maynard left them. The triplets come into theirs this November. Steve has his scholarship which covers his fees until he leaves school, when he’ll come into his share of the legacy. That’s four of them more or less provided for. It’s education that costs so much during the early years and the girls have cost us nothing there apart from extras like music and so on. However, four all at once might be rather much. Anyhow, I can’t just arrange it to suit myself.”
“Joey, does this mean that you are really adding to your family?”
“Wait and see,” Joey said aggravatingly.

Which does sound like a hint of an extension to the family. But for some reason when I read this the first time I took it as Jo just teasing Hilda.

#7: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:43 pm
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If the triplets were nearly 19 at the end of the series, Joey would've been nearly 41 (or nearly 40 depending on which version of Exile you're looking at!), so slightly younger than Madge was when Kevin & Kester were born and around the same age that Mollie was when Daphne was born. So I don't think EBD would've considered her too old to have more kids.

(Joey & Jack seem to plan their family very carefully given that family planning would presumably've been at odds with their religious beliefs, but maybe they just used the "natural" method and never got caught out.)

I think the quads thing was just a joke - Joey talks as if she could just conceive quads as opposed to a "singleton" baby just by wanting to, if that makes sense, so I don't think she meant it seriously - but I always took that conversation with Hilda in Althea to suggest that another baby might be on the way.

She could've ended up with children and grandchildren the same age, couldn't she?

#8: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:57 am
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Alison H wrote:

(Joey & Jack seem to plan their family very carefully given that family planning would presumably've been at odds with their religious beliefs, but maybe they just used the "natural" method and never got caught out.)

Joey does seem to manage family planning by wishful thinking - the rhythm method isn't that reliable, and she does seem to be very fecund naturally, so I'm not sure how well the decision not to have any more kids would have held before age started to affect her fertility.

When did the birth control pill become available in the UK or Europe? The first hit the market in the US in the 1960s, but weren't easily available and wasn't as reliable as the modern version and had stronger side effects. What other methods (aside from natural) would have been available?

#9: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:49 am
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jennifer wrote:

When did the birth control pill become available in the UK or Europe? The first hit the market in the US in the 1960s, but weren't easily available and wasn't as reliable as the modern version and had stronger side effects. What other methods (aside from natural) would have been available?

In the 1960s, same as the US but Joey and Jack would be very unlikely to have used any contraception methods if they were RC.

#10: Author: Frogize, Location: Perth, Western Australia

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:07 am
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I was wandering through the archives a couple of days ago and came across a drabble someone wrote (not sure who - may have been "Joan the Dwarf" I think). Anyway, "Unlucky Twelve" was the story of the birth of Joey's twelth child, a girl with Downs Syndrome. It was very moving, a wonderful read.

#11: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:40 am
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Joey could have used condoms as contraception. I don't think she would have been short on ideas if she really needed it - see here. Maybe Anna's 'special vegetable' recipes were occasionally for things other than dyes Shocked

#12: Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:48 am
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Quote:

However, four all at once might be rather much. Anyhow, I can’t just arrange it to suit myself.”

I wonder what this means. It could mean that Jack would have to agree to another child. Or does it mean that Joey acknowledges even she can't produce quads on demand? Or do the earlier bits mean she is pregnant?

#13: Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Second star to the right

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:51 am
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condoms aren't acceptable though, are they? I mean to observant RCs. Never knew that - well - some of the facts that i previously believed were now shown to be untrue, thanks for posting that!

*not being very specific due to location of this thread*

#14: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:49 am
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Condoms are definitely not acceptable to the Catholic church. When Joey married Jack, the anti-birth control rules would more than likely have been spelled out to them, as Joey was Protestant. Jack would have had to apply to permission to marry her, which would probably have involved talks about birth control and would definitely have involved them promising to bring the children up as Catholics.

(This is assuming that she didn't convert until after the wedding, which seems likely.)

In any case, up to about 1930 most Protestant demoninations forbad the use of contraception and for quite a while after that only allowed it "in certain circumstances". Knowing how old-fashioned EBD was, I doubt she'd condone BC anyway.

#15: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:49 pm
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I suspect that as a single woman she didn't know very much - if anything - about birth control. My Mum - born 1912 - had to tell her Mum how babies happened. All Grandma knew was that they came along after marriage - she hadn't made the practical connection at all! Grandma was about 40 when she had Mum, so must have been born about 1882.

#16: Author: Lizzie, Location: A little village on the Essex/Suffolk border

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:21 pm
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Róisín wrote:

Maybe Anna's 'special vegetable' recipes were occasionally for things other than dyes Shocked

Hee hee, thanks Róisín, what an...erm...interesting idea. So many of these discussions pave the way for stories...

#17: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:14 pm
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Try reading herbals. I have one which tells you that such and such a herb is good for 'regulating menstruation'. In other words, take this herb and you won't get pregnant, or stay pregnant.

Others are contra-indicated if you are pregnant. The knowledge is there, you just have to look for it.

No, I haven't needed this knowledge, but found it when I was researching to try to find something to control the eczema that I get on my hands and feet.

ETA: Anna might have found it very convenient for Jo not to have a new baby every year, after all, we know who did most of the work.

#18: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:24 am
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The Jean M. Auel books (the Clan of the Cave Bear series - I highly highly recommend them, fabulous reads, set in prehistoric times) are full of herbal stuff as the main character was a kind of medicine woman. They are extremely well researched too, with explanatory notes at the back.

#19: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:06 pm
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Although I find herbals fascinating reading, some of the recipes are downright dangerous. I don't think I'd try anything without a lot more research.

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