From: "Saved by Windows Internet Explorer 7" Subject: The CBB :: View topic - Early pregnancy tests Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:12:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01CA3883.2E4FBF90" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01CA3883.2E4FBF90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Location: http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3206&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&view=printall =EF=BB=BF The CBB :: View topic - Early = pregnancy tests
The = CBB
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/

Early pregnancy tests
http:= //www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3D10&t=3D3206

Author:  Lizzie [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Early pregnancy tests

Does anyone with more of a medical background than me (ie anything = more=20 than GCSE biology) know how doctors were able to tell that someone = was=20 pregnant before these fancy tests were invented? Or were fancy = pregnancy=20 tests widely available in the 1930s? Apart from missed periods, = and=20 gradually growing in size, was there any way that Jem (for = example) have=20 been able to know for sure that Madge was pregnant? =

Author:  R=C3=B3is=C3=ADn [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

I don't know much about it but I'd add swollen/tender breasts to = those=20 symptoms. Also - doctors can tell after a month (?) by putting = their hands=20 on your belly and feeling the outside - I think they know where to = feel=20 for a small growth or something like that -> I had an early = pregnancy=20 test by this method once. HTH!

Author:  janem [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:11 pm ]
Post subject: 

R=C3=B3is=C3=ADn wrote:
I don't know much about it but I'd add=20 swollen/tender breasts to those symptoms. Also - doctors can tell = after a=20 month (?) by putting their hands on your belly and feeling the = outside - I=20 think they know where to feel for a small growth or something like = that=20 -> I had an early pregnancy test by this method once.=20 HTH!


I did too as my doc found that method very = reliable She=20 was surprised by how big the lump was. Turned out to be two = babies!=20

Author:  claire [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

After about 12 weeks you can palpate the uterus abdominally = (pinard=20 stethoscope's kick in around the 28 week mark for you to listen = in)=20

Chadwick's sign is that your cervix becomes more blue, = (8ish=20 weeks)

Hegar's sign - the isthmus of the cervix is softer = (from 6=20 weeks + , but 8+ weeks more realistic)

You can feel the = pulsations=20 of the vagina from 8ish weeks but I can't remember who that's = named after=20 and can't be bothered to look it up

Seriously though if = you are=20 around enough pregnant women you just sense they are pregnant - = it's quite=20 scary when you realise you have it, and you can't put your finger = on why=20 you know but you do - their skin is slightly different, they smell = different (only teeny different and i've only noticed the smeel = distinctly=20 on myself), the eyes seem to soften - I've known a few times = before people=20 have announced it

Author:  tiffinata [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:44 am ]
Post subject: 

In 1903 Ludwig Fraenkel identified the connection between certain = hormones=20 and pregnancy. and named Progesterone.
In the 1920's other = scientists=20 identified the specific pregnancy hormone human chronic = gonadotropin (hCG)=20 all pregnancy tests identify this particular hormone

Quote:
A Pregnancy Test Timeline
1928 -=20 Aschheim-Zondek: Also known as the A-Z Test, this very first = scientific=20 pregnancy test was developed in Germany. It involved several = subcutaneous=20 injections of varying amounts of a woman's urine into the backs of = immature female mice weighing between five and eight grams. One = hundred=20 hours after the first injection, the mice were killed and the = ovaries were=20 examined. The A-Z test is named for German researchers Selmar = Aschheim=20 (1878-1965) and Bernhard Zondek (1891-1966). Zondek was the first = person=20 to describe the ovarian hormone and earned worldwide renown for=20 discovering gonadotropins. He and Aschheim both worked at = Charit=C3=A9=20 Hospital's Women's Clinic in Berlin (now the Institute of = Experimental=20 Endocrinology, CCM).

1931 - Friedman: A refined version of = the=20 Aschheim-Zondek test, the Friedman test used rabbits instead of = mice. Its=20 advantages were the availability of the animals, a reduced error = rate, and=20 the reduced time required for completion of the test. The = subject's urine=20 was injected into the ear vein of a female rabbit. The test, named = for=20 Maurice H. Friedman (1903-1991), could be read within 36 to 48 = hours after=20 injecting the urine.

1939 - Hogben (Xenopus): In the = Hogben test,=20 a female African clawed toad (Xenopus laevis) is injected with = urine (or=20 an extract) into the dorsal lymph sac. The presence of five, six, = or more=20 eggs within four to twelve hours indicates pregnancy. A similar = test was=20 done using male frogs or male toads. A woman's urine or serum is = injected=20 into the dorsal lymph sac of two male frogs (Rana pipiens) or male = toads=20 (Bufo marinus). The presence of spermatozoa in the cloacal fluid = of both=20 animals is positive; in one animal, inconclusive; in neither = animal,=20 negative. This test is named for the British biologist Lancelot = Hogben=20 (1895-1975). Although the Hogben pregnancy test had the advantage = of not=20 killing the test animals, it was replaced by immunological methods = in the=20 1960s.

1960 - Hemagglutination inhibition test: Also known = as the=20 Wide-Gemzell test, this was the first pregnancy test that did not = require=20 an animal. It tested urine for certain reactions with purified = hCG. Much=20 faster and cheaper than previous tests, it was, however, not as = accurate.=20

1970 - Wampole test: This was a two-hour test kit = available to=20 physicians. It still required test tubes, syringes, and other = items making=20 it unsuitable for home use.

1976 - ACU, Answer, e.p.t. and = Predictor: These home pregnancy test kits received FDA approval in = 1976.=20 Warner-Chilcott's e.p.t. test would be the first on the market at = the end=20 of 1977. It sold for about $10, but still required two hours for = results.=20 It was more accurate for positive results than negative. Current = versions=20 are more reliable.

1990s - Enzyme testing: Continuing = research=20 leads to better accuracy and improved methods. A large variety of = home=20 tests exist today, all based on an increase in urinary levels of = hCG after=20 fertilization. But no animals are harmed any = longer=E2=80=94neither rabbits nor=20 toads


Interestingly a slang term for being = pregnant was=20 'the rabbit's dead'
It is also thought that the decline of = frogs=20 (particularly in Australia) is due to a bug in the toads that were = used=20 for pregnancy tests.

Author:  jennifer [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:56 am ]
Post subject: 

So it would probably be a missed period, followed by a visit to = the doctor=20 and a check for physical signs. I don't see the local GP injecting = mice as=20 a standard test.

Author:  claire [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:56 am ]
Post subject: 

a missed period and they'd be told to come back after they missed = a=20 second.

Author:  Lizzie [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:13 am ]
Post subject: 

Thanks everyone! I had no idea about the rabbits and mice, = although I=20 suppose I did realise it was always going to have been more = complicated=20 than it is these days.

Good to have my background research = a=20 little more detailed!

Author:  Katherine [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:14 pm ]
Post subject: 

Wow, the stuff about rabbits and mice is amazing.

Slightly = before=20 CS time, but I read a book about Mary I of England a few years = back. She=20 was desperate for a child so that she would have a Catholic heir,=20 otherwise the crown would pass to her Protestant half-sister = Elizabeth=20 (Elizabeth I in the end). Anyway, from what I can remember she had = this=20 growth in her abdomenon and convinced herself she was pregnant but = of=20 course the child never arrived. Just made me think about how = little people=20 must have known about what was going on inside them; we have so = many tests=20 and things these days though I suppose people still have phantom=20 pregnancies.

Author:  Alison H [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

It's now thought that Mary I had a pituitary (sp?) tumour, which = produces=20 symptoms similar to pregnancy, and possibly stomach cancer as = well. (Like=20 Sunita in Coronation Street a few years ago!) The poor woman went = 9 months=20 waiting for a baby to arrive, then another month thinking that she = must've=20 got her dates wrong originally, and then no baby at the end of it. =

Author:  R=C3=B3is=C3=ADn [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

I read that too! In a Phillippa Gregory book, although I can't = remember=20 which one. Poor woman 3D:(=20=20

Author:  LizB [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

It's in The Queen's = Fool, which=20 I'm partway through. I think I've previously read it in a Jean = Plaidy book=20 and possibly other places as well.

Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

What I am not sure was when it was known how to calculate exactly = the EDD,=20 rather than just guess vaguely around 9 months' time.

Mind = you EBD=20 probably didn't know, since Sybil seems to have been remarkably = well-grown=20 for an allegedly premature baby - and she wasn't a first baby, = either=20 (they were often "premature", only of course, they weren't at all, = just=20 Mum was already in pig when she went up the aisle!). =

Author:  claire [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

that said mrs redboots my husband was a 7lb + 34 weeker (and = everyone knew=20 his mother was pregnant before the marriage - the dates were = definately=20 right and he had the associated problems with a baby at that = stage) just=20 he would have been a huge baby had he gone to term =

Author:  Caroline OSullivan [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Another early sympton may be morning sickness and going off = certain=20 foods/having cravings.

When I was pregnant with Helen I = started=20 morning sickness with three days of conception 3D:shock:=20 and went off coffee.

Author:  jennifer [ Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:55 am ]
Post subject: 

I would also guess that many women didn't go to the doctor for a = pregnancy=20 confirmation. They would know the signs, and only go to the doctor = if=20 something were wrong.

There would be no ultra sound, no = treatment=20 for gestational diabetes (would there even be a test?) - how much = more=20 could the doctor do than say "yep, you're pregnant" and tell you = to eat=20 mild foods? Plus the dangers of smoking/drinking/sushi/cat litter=20 boxes/unpasturised cheese/medications while pregnant weren't = known.=20

I would guess that most premature babies died, unless they = were=20 fairly close to term and relatively healthy, and that in multiple = births=20 it was more common for one of the babies to die. =

Author:  tiffinata [ Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:26 am ]
Post subject: 

I guess that many single women at that time would not know the = signs and=20 sympoms. Maybe just a feeling that something was wrong when a = period was=20 missed.
No sex ed then- just mum telling the daughter when she = is=20 about to be married about 'marital duties'. Or, if you were lucky, = 'don't=20 go too far with a boy' as she became a woman.

If so, given = that=20 Madge had been orphaned at an early age, it would be expected that = Jem=20 would have had to fill that role and explained how to and = diagnosed her=20 pregnancy. Hopefully Madge fulfilled the mother role to Joey in = the=20 marital duties talk.

Later in the series we see the Swiss = San as=20 more a general hospital. Surely they would have had small labs? = Maybe they=20 had research mice to use for pregnancy tests.
But this would = only have=20 been available to the rich as well.

Author:  Lottie [ Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 

tiffinata wrote:
If so, given that Madge had been = orphaned at an=20 early age, it would be expected that Jem would have had to fill = that role=20 and explained how to and diagnosed her pregnancy.

Maybe = Frau=20 Marani or Frau Mensch took Madge aside for a few quiet words in = the run-up=20 to her wedding.

Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:59 am ]
Post subject: 

tiffinata wrote:
No sex ed then- just mum telling the = daughter when=20 she is about to be married about 'marital duties'. Or, if you were = lucky,=20 'don't go too far with a boy' as she became a woman

Well = my=20 mother, who is a little younger than Joey, says it's actually a = myth that=20 they didn't know anything. They did, I think, learn at school, = possibly=20 only vaguely, from one another. But she certainly said once, = "Well, what=20 do you think we got up = to in=20 parked cars?!"

Author:  keren [ Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:17 am ]
Post subject: 

LizB wrote:
It's in The=20 Queen's Fool, which I'm partway through. I think I've = previously=20 read it in a Jean Plaidy book and possibly other places as=20 well.



arent they the same person (philipa gregory = and=20 jean plaidy)

Author:  Mona [ Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:23 am ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
arent they the same person (philipa = gregory and=20 jean plaidy)
Very much not!
Jean Plaidy was one of the = pseudonyms=20 used by Eleanor Hibbert (aka Eleanor Burford, Elbur Ford, Kathleen = Kellow,=20 Ellalice Tate, Anna Percival, Victoria Holt, and Philippa Carr). = She died=20 in 1993.
Phillipa Gregory is still very much alive and = producing new=20 work.

Both of them write/wrote about the Tudor period in = their=20 novels, including Queen Mary's reign and her 'phantom' = pregnancies.=20

Author:  Holly [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:16 am ]
Post subject: 

keren wrote:
LizB wrote:
It's in The=20 Queen's Fool, which I'm partway through. I think I've = previously=20 read it in a Jean Plaidy book and possibly other places as=20 well.



arent they the same person (philipa gregory = and=20 jean plaidy)


I've read both their work, and I find = Jean=20 Plaidy to be far superior as a historical author - Philippa = Gregory is=20 certainly the more sensational author and I think she gives a = better sense=20 of the atmosphere of court life. As a rule, Plaidy is much more = balanced=20 and fair to all historical figures concerned while Gregory = definitely=20 plays favourites and tends to whitewash the ones she likes and to = be=20 pretty merciless to the ones she doesn't like, amplifying their = faults=20 and, in Anne Boleyn's case in particular, showing her committing = murder=20 and incest - I'm dreading to see what the movie for "The Other = Boleyn=20 Girl" is going to be like.

Author:  Lyanne [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:52 am ]
Post subject: 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
tiffinata wrote:
No sex ed then- just mum telling the = daughter when=20 she is about to be married about 'marital duties'. Or, if you were = lucky,=20 'don't go too far with a boy' as she became a woman

Well = my=20 mother, who is a little younger than Joey, says it's actually a = myth that=20 they didn't know anything. They did, I think, learn at school, = possibly=20 only vaguely, from one another. But she certainly said once, = "Well, what=20 do you think we got up = to in=20 parked cars?!"


My mother in law, born in 1951, so a = LOT=20 younger than Joey, was told nothing at school or by her mum. It was left to her = dad to=20 explain to her why she was bleeding and what to do about it.=20

Author:  Lexi [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 

Holly wrote:
I'm dreading to see what the movie for = "The Other=20 Boleyn Girl" is going to be like.


Ugh, me too. It was = filmed=20 at Haddon Hall though and I love it there so I'll probably just = watch it=20 for the scenery 3D:D=20=20

Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Lyanne wrote:

My mother in law, born in 1951, so a = LOT=20 younger than Joey, was told nothing at school or by her mum. It was left to her = dad to=20 explain to her why she was bleeding and what to do about=20 it.


All too common, I'm afraid. I was born in 1953, = and=20 didn't really know anything until I went to boarding-school, when = most of=20 us were sent with the necessary supplies "just in case". We also = had a=20 couple of ghastly sessions called "Design for Living" or something = which=20 were compulsory - goodness, I'd forgotten about them until this = minute -=20 with a black-and-white film Explaining Things.....

But = even in=20 1991, when my daughter went to secondary school, the headmistress = felt it=20 necessary to remind parents of future first-years to ensure their=20 daughters knew about periods - and even then, obviously not = trusting us,=20 the girls were taught about it during their first year!=20

All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by = phpBB =C2=A9 2000,=20 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB=20 Group
http://www.phpbb.com/
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01CA3883.2E4FBF90 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Location: http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif R0lGODlhDwAPALMMAP/qAEVFRQAAAP/OAP/JAP6dAP+0AP/+k//9E///x//lAP//6wAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH5BAEAAAwALAAAAAAPAA8AAARYkEkZap2Y1ZXOGRcWcAgCnEMRTEEnnLCQrtrxwjGoJSZw +yeCKnDo/W4EQ+WAawKSlZ4zqAwMpieFcGU9Cb7fp04zGPwACpmKVSa43bNMxUA3DDMsC20SAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01CA3883.2E4FBF90 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Location: http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif R0lGODlhDwAPALMNAP///wAAAP/qAEVFRf/OAP/JAP+0AP6dAP/lAP/9E//+k///6///xwAAAAAA AAAAACH5BAEAAA0ALAAAAAAPAA8AAARXsEk5ap241cWUIhcWjEkinGMwBUAbnALrNnILvLUr77Gr 264eMDCovVA24iCRgqFGhgrBSUUUDgPN9HksgCgEAsJpJWAng3BhvTZnMRWD3IB9ZzQWuyQCADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01CA3883.2E4FBF90 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Location: http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif R0lGODlhDwAPALMNAEVFRf/qAAAAAP/////OAP/JAP+0AP6dAP/+k//9E///x///6//lAAAAAAAA AAAAACH5BAEAAA0ALAAAAAAPAA8AAARZsEkJap241aUQIhcGcEkSnMQBTEBnnnC6aogpwHcAasqb B7mCCoD4wXCGSlHAbDqTANtgSh0IClACsEq9qjRaAfe6AxMYTvKXQiAU3m9ZpmKoG4YZlmU2iQAA Ow== ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01CA3883.2E4FBF90--