Medical Knowledge
The CBB -> Question Time
#1: Medical Knowledge Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:50 am

This continually puzzles me. How accurate was EBD's medical knowledge, or did she just parrot a few phrases?

For example, is it possible to die of rheumatoid arthritis?

When Jack is talking about patients to Jo, he always says something such as 'The heart is weak, Jo.' Does having a tubercular hip weaken the heart? And why does he say 'the heart', not 'her heart'?

 

#2:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:25 am

I don't think she knew as much about medical matters as she tried to make out. People sometimes have mysterious unspecified illnesses, like Mlle Lepattre's unspecified (heart?) condition which "an operation" would somehow put right, and a lot of people are just generally "delicate" or "frail" without there being any more detail about what's the matter with them. & why does everyone seem to grow 6 inches when they get chicken pox or measles etc? I suppose people had to be ill as part of the plot because the school is so closely linked to the San and so there are just vague medical references to make the story "flow".

 

#3:  Author: Mia, Location: London PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:28 am

I always got the impression EBD's medical knowledge was *really* poor.

She reminds me a lot of my grandmother who followed the same old wives' tales, ie going to bed with wet hair gives you a cold, etc, and things like this do seem to jump out at me from the books. She is also glaringly inconsistent sometimes. I will hunt for some references when I get home (unless someone beats me to it lol)

However the practice of medicine changed quite a lot from, say, when Jem qualified, to when the series ended (and David would have qualified for example) Doctors used to be quite generalist practitioners and after WW2 it changed and they specialised a lot more. This would fit in a little with Jem and Jack dealing with difficult ops one minute and the Middles' measles outbreak the next!

I've read this on the net somewhere, so I will edit this with a link, but apparently it was quite a dramatic change in the UK http://www.nhshistory.net/London's_hospitals.htm

Sorry to ramble a bit... hope this is in someway helpful. The thing that really annoys me is the way Jo knows everything about patients in the San! Whatever happened to confidentiality? Very Happy

Last edited by Mia on Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

 

#4:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:19 am

Another thing that gets me is the way she kills people off wholesale. the number of women who die in childbirth, or the fathers who die in accidents is enormous. And all those frail babies!

 

#5:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:30 am

Talking of frail babies - has anyone known any baby to have convulsions when teething? Neither of mine did!

 

#6:  Author: Joey, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:07 pm

Yup, apparently I cut about half my teeth with convulsions, which was even more of a worry than it might have been cos of my heart. I was a very difficult baby!

I don't think EBD had much medical knowledge, but I also think it never crossed her mind that it might matter. She was writing for young girls, who also wouldn't have known much.

Last edited by Joey on Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

 

#7:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:08 pm

No, I haven't either, not a baby that cut each tooth with bronchitis.

 

#8:  Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:23 pm

At the beginning of the last century, in the USA, about 90 times more women died in childbirth than they did by the end of the century. I don't suppose it was hugely different for the UK and EBD would probably have grown up seeing death in childbirth as not being a rare occurrence.

Liz

 

#9:  Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm

It's rhematic fever that can weaken the heart and it was once quite common, being a secondary effect of a streptococcal sore throat - no antibiotics. At the time of the early books it was the commonest cause of joint problems in children. EBD will undoubtedly have met it.

Again with TB, the pericardium can be affected and this can cause congestive heart failure, though it is rare.

convulsions in teething are now believed to be a coincidence as the baby loses the immunity acquired from the mother at about the time teeth start coming through - though mothers who have stayed up all night with a screaming child might well disagree with the professionals.

 

#10:  Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:48 pm

Does anyone know what infant mortality rates we in the first half of last century?

Just how common was it lose a child?

 

#11:  Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:08 pm

Infant mortality.

1890 - 153.3 in 1,000
1928 - 65 in 1,000
1958 - 22.6 in 1,000
1990 - 6.3 in 1,000.

 

#12:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:19 pm

Katherine wrote:
Does anyone know what infant mortality rates we in the first half of last century?

Just how common was it lose a child?


It was quite common - my grandparents were all born between 1910 and 1915 and three out of four of them lost at least one sibling in infancy/childhood. The rates would probably have been lower for wealthy families like those in the CS world, but if a child got a dangerous illness e.g. meningitis then there wouldn't have been much that doctors could do.

The number of "delicate" children in the CS books seems a bit unreasonable though. & their illnesses seem to be overplayed a bit. I know that Maureen Donovan was very ill after falling through the ice and that she ended up dying young, but was it really necessary for her to be taken to spend a year on the French Riviera after having bronchitis?!!! & I know the school was health conscious, but surely the way people end up having a day or two off school and having to stay in bed just because they've got wet in the rain is a bit OTT.

This is totally off the point, but does it say anywhere what Nurse's name is? She seems to crop up from time to time through the whole series, but we never find out much about her.

 

#13:  Author: Mia, Location: London PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:20 pm

Alison H wrote:
was it really necessary for her to be taken to spend a year on the French Riviera after having bronchitis?!!! & I know the school was health conscious, but surely the way people end up having a day or two off school and having to stay in bed just because they've got wet in the rain is a bit OTT.


IMO, the best one is in Head Girl hb. At the start of the term it's announced that Renee Lecoutier is staying at home until half-term because she's sprained her ankle! Laughing

 

#14:  Author: Róisín, Location: Galway, Éire PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:28 pm

*laughs at Mia's post about Reneé*

In Exploits someoneorother is brought from England to live in the Tyrol, and Jack says that they would have died in England but now they're in the mountains they'll definitely live for years and years.

Is mountain air that good? Shocked

Edited cos my fingers hit the wrong bracket Rolling Eyes

Last edited by Róisín on Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

 

#15:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:38 pm

The air in Canadian cities seems to have a similar effect. Toronto and Montreal are both really really lovely cities, don't get me wrong, but would Margot and Josette really have turned from "delicate" children into "Bouncing Bets" just from living there rather than in England/Wales?

 

#16:  Author: RroseSelavy, Location: Oxford, UK PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:51 pm

Yup, I too love the frail & weak references and daft recuperation times. But I think also that some illnesses were genuinely more worrying in those days, e.g. TB could only effectively be treated after streptomycin was developed in the mid 40s - until then it was all really prevention and palliative care, so even if EBD was vague about its treatment due to her lack of knowledge, then treatment itself could have been pretty vague for most of the time she was writing.

My favourite bit of EBD medicine is the frequenct "bilious attacks." They must have been either period pains or the consequence of too much brandy in the staffroom the night before Wink

And the paranoia that rich food made you ill always reminds me of one of my grandmothers, who maintained that sugary food gave you worms.

 

#17:  Author: IAmZoe,  PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:26 pm

The medical 'knowledge' that always makes me wince in EBD is the advice to Eustacia - having hurt my back very badly, I can no longer read that book without wanting to correct just about everything they say to her! The advice to stay completely still and flat is exactly the opposite of what a doctor now would tell you to do - though apparently this is something that has only changed very recently. And perhaps it is based on the amount of people who have relatively slight but chronic back pain as a result of sitting at computers and suchlike - but certainly I was told to exercise as much as possible as it was the only way for the muscles to get strong again.

Oh, and strangely my back problems were almost resolved when I lived in Canada - and reappeared with startling suddenness when I returned to Britain! I am convinced it was the dry, bracing air.

 

#18:  Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:33 pm

Yes, but people used to be advised to keep still as much as possible to allow the back to heal - Katy Carr is another example, and possibly Pollyanna. The changes in medical knowledge and treatment over the last 100 years have been immense.

Liz

 

#19:  Author: Mia, Location: London PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:41 pm

Alison H wrote:
The air in Canadian cities seems to have a similar effect. Toronto and Montreal are both really really lovely cities, don't get me wrong, but would Margot and Josette really have turned from "delicate" children into "Bouncing Bets" just from living there rather than in England/Wales?


Maybe the food helped too? Did they have the same level of rationing in Canada?

This is a really interesting thread.

 

#20:  Author: nikkie, Location: Cumbria PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:03 pm

My Nanna had rheumatic fever as a child and it left her with a weak heart.

*agrees with Mia this is very interesting*

 

#21:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:06 pm

My father remembers having to lie flat for the greatest part of a year after burning his back and then having to learn to walk again. That would have been in the 50's.

Two of his brothers also died before their 2nd birthday's, one in the 30's and one in early 50's. Sadly it was pretty common.

 

#22:  Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Devon PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:53 pm

Agree with all of you that EBD's knowledge was a little on the thin side!

*feels vaguely deprived in lack of French Riviera trip materialising for bronchitic bouts as a teenager*

 

#23:  Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:54 pm

re sprains and resting injuries

At the age of 11 I had problems with one of my knees and my leg was put in plaster for 2-3 months to help it recover. Now when it recurs I go and see a physio for a couple of treatments and it's better (and I wouldn't need to do that if I kept up with the exercises I'm meant to do Embarassed )


And that's the difference in medical knowledge in the last 30 years Shocked

 

#24:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:24 am

I knew about the rheumatic fever affecting the heart valves, but in 'rescue', Phoebe is suffering from rheumatoid arthritis, which is different.

If you have had rheumatic fever, you really must tell your dentist, as you ought not to have a tooth out unless you take antibiotics for a fortnight beforehand.

 

#25:  Author: Joey, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:51 am

Yes, but IIRC Phoebe had rheumatic fever at the age of twelve.

As well as not having much medical knowledge to being with, I think it's evident that EBD didn't bother to keep what knowledge she had up to date. I also think that we need to suspend our modern medical knowledge when reading the books, especially the early ones. Don't forget antibiotics, which we take completely for granted, didn't exist (until well into the nineteen forties. Things like bronchitis were much more of a problem then.

 

#26:  Author: Nicci, Location: UK PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:47 pm

Mia wrote:


Maybe the food helped too? Did they have the same level of rationing in Canada?
.



I think it was a lot lower Mia. I remember in one of Michelle Magorian's wartime books, a girl comes back to England after being sent out to America or Canada during the blitz and I think she had pretty much what she wanted out there.

 

#27:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:25 pm

The girl had spent the war years in America. The book was called 'Back Home'.

I agree EBD didn't keep up to date. I can't recall that she ever mentioned antibiotics, not even in the post-war years.

 

#28:  Author: Joan the Dwarf, Location: Er, where am I? PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:38 pm

She did mention (I think in Bride) something along the lines of how they can do such marvellous things for post-operative shock nowadays, which I took to be a reference to antibiotics.

The "bilious attacks" always puzzled me as well - all I could think of was food poisoning, some people being more suceptible to poor food hygeine (prize example is when Frau Meiders visually inspects hands at the start of a cookery class but doesn't get them all to wash them Shocked ).

And what on earth is all this about displacing organs a la Joey (and a few other people!)?? The only thing that I can think of is endometriosis (the womb going for a wander), but then she'd have had a hysterectomy, so no more sprogs.

... but maybe this happened, and all the rest are really adoptees in disguise!!

 

#29:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:26 pm

I always thought the bilious attacks were migraines.

I'm afraid Frau Meiders doesn't come anywhere near my HE teacher for hygiene. We used to have to wash our hands under supervision at the beginning of a lesson.

 

#30:  Author: Honor, Location: London PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:29 pm

I always thought the billious attacks were the undefined throwing up type stuff that kids often have. My mum said she used to have them.

Also, isn't displaced organs like a hernia? I though when my dad had one that it sounded like what Jo had, though aren't they more common in men? Don't really know anything about them!

 

#31:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:52 pm

I wish we could tell you, Honor. The problem is that there are lots of organs in the human body and we don't know which one was misplaced! Typical EBD.

 

#32:  Author: Ann, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:58 pm

Jennie wrote:
The problem is that there are lots of organs in the human body and we don't know which one was misplaced!


*giggles childishly at the thought of Joey misplacing her brain*

I've been persuaded by other threads which have been posted that 'bilious attack' was a euphemism for, ahem, women's problems. I used to live with a girl who was horribly ill once a month and sometimes suffered from such severe pain that she would pass out.

 

#33:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:35 pm

Women can have hernias too - and if Joey had been having sickness with it, it's possible that she had a hiatus hernia - when part of the stomach attempts to migrate up the oesophagus (gut)!

 

#34:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:18 pm

Well, I did a search for misplaced organs, which was very interesting, but by far the most amusing was this story. Other 'misplaced organs' were of the musical variety. But it's clearly a fairly common term, as it appears in quite a few stories and jokes.

 

#35:  Author: delilah_siren, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:10 am

I have almost passed out once or twice due to women's problems and remember, they wouldn't have had as strong painkillers or painkillers that are directed at the problem as they do nowadays.

I reckon if the specialist painkillers didn't exist, there will be quite a few times where I would've had to spend a day in bed and not do anything because the pain was that bad. (The times where I almost passed out was cause i didn't have medicine on me and didn't take any til the pain got really bad)

 

#36:  Author: Kate, Location: Ireland PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:10 am

I was reading an Agatha Christie the other day and one of the characters was talking about "modern jargon" and obscured what complaints really were - and she mentioned that "a virus infection" is now what they call a bilious attack...

 

#37:  Author: Changnoi, Location: New Mexico, USA PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:57 pm

I've always thought that bilious attacks are period pains. I remember once when I taught trying to teach through some horrible horrible cramps. I had to stop myself mid-sentence periodically. Finally I excused myself for a minute, ran to the restroom to throw up, and came back to the lesson. But CS teachers are expected to have more self-control than I am, so I can understand how 'bilious attacks' in this sense, would have made people cranky!

I think Ju Gosling makes an interesting point in her book (which I love, by the way). EBD grew up as a poor child surrounded by people who were dying of various things probably without easy access to the doctor. Her understanding of the world was probably shaped by this; in her writing, she assumes that death and frailty and TB occur more frequently than they did among the British middle/upper-class because it's what she observed as a child among the working-class, who may not have had appropriate access to medical care, especially preventative care.

Chang

 

#38:  Author: Rosy, Location: Gloucestershire-London-Aberystwyth PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:10 pm

Róisín wrote:
In Exploits someoneorother is brought from England to live in the Tyrol, and Jack says that they would have died in England but now they're in the mountains they'll definitely live for years and years.

Is mountain air that good? Shocked[/size]


I think it's supposed to be. I mean, if you have really bad respiratory problems then a change of air can really make a difference. I for one am much better on the Continent. An island climate does very little for my lungs at all. If it's foggy here then I can spend days in bed because I'm simply too short of breath to do anything else! I know of other people who have moved to warmer climes because the asthma that made their lives unbearable here improved dramatically abroad!

As for bilious attacks, I assumed it was bad stomach ache, normally as a result of over-eating?

 

#39:  Author: joelle, Location: lancashire, england PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:23 pm

if bilious attacks are another way of saying womens problems, why did joyce get them from overeating? or was ebd mixing the two problems up, and if so, do you think it was intentionally? i mean, was she being vague about womens problems on purpose or did she genuinely not realise what they were? not wanting to go into detail and upset anyone, just interested

 

#40:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:55 pm

I think it's just meaning 'stomach cramps' so period pains, indegestion, early labour are all covered

 

#41:  Author: Mia, Location: London PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:55 pm

I doubt it, after all she was writing books for girls who wouldn't have had similar problems! I think it was food - maybe not good quality food or too much!
Dawn wrote:

I also think that we need to suspend our modern medical knowledge when reading the books, especially the early ones. Don't forget antibiotics, which we take completely for granted, didn't exist (until well into the nineteen forties.


I don't think EBD used any advances in the later books either. Remember Evelyn Ross's mother? Maybe TB was too good a plot device to lose!
When I was younger I always wondered why Stacie and Mary-Lou, both with bruised backs, were treated so differently.

 

#42:  Author: Róisín, Location: Galway, Éire PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:42 pm

I always loved Jem's advice, in Eustacia, about the nerves being closely aligned to the muscles, and she must therefore try to be happy and cheerful as much as she could. I never looked at it in this way before and I think it's quite a nice perspective.

 

#43:  Author: Miriam, Location: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:14 pm

Mia wrote:

When I was younger I always wondered why Stacie and Mary-Lou, both with bruised backs, were treated so differently.


I think it wasa different type of injury. Mary-Lou had very severe bruising from a sudden impact into a fallen tree trunk (and they were initially worried about a broken spine). Stacie was suffering from muscle strain after clinging to a cleft in the rocks for hours, probably in a very awkward position. It makes sense that muscles would require a longer healing period than bruises - especially when you factor in the OOAO effect!

My grandfather was rumored to have twin sisters who died of TB when they were four. It's all a bit vague because they would have been the oldest of a family of which he was the youngest, and he was orphaned when he was four (seems to have been a bad age in that family), and all the siblings were seperated, and only met again as adults. Could very well well have fitted into an |EBD book - if only he had been a girl.

 

#44:  Author: Róisín, Location: Galway, Éire PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:57 pm

Miriam wrote:
My grandfather was rumored to have twin sisters who died of TB when they were four. It's all a bit vague because they would have been the oldest of a family of which he was the youngest, and he was orphaned when he was four (seems to have been a bad age in that family), and all the siblings were seperated, and only met again as adults. Could very well well have fitted into an |EBD book - if only he had been a girl.


Wow, what an interesting story! I'm sure EBD would have been able to do something with it, even though he was a boy ... that something would probably have had you as the main character, you do realise! Shocked Very Happy

 

#45:  Author: Miriam, Location: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:42 pm

I never thought of that side of it. I could have been famous - if only I was fictional... I could have found some long lost cousins, or anything really.

By the way, we do have a lot of twins in the family, which would work really well on the fictional level (as well as giving some substance to the rumour).

 

#46:  Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:01 pm

I think it's probably a mix of higher mortality rates in the early part of the twentieth century, the change since in the understanding of infectious illnesses and general advances in medicine, and a lack of knowledge. It can be hard to sort them out.

For example, without antibiotics, infections were much more serious, and what we now regard as a nusiance could very well prove fatal (strep throat as an example). However, the idea that standing in a cold doorway for 20 seconds can instantly produce a near fatal illness is very bizarre (in Jo of), but common wisdom, even today, is that getting chilled => getting sick.

Child (and mother) mortality was much higher then, and having a child motherless due to childbirth would have been much more common, particularly in a boarding school, if the kid was sent off because there was no one to watch her at home.

Another 'outdated medicine' case I can think of is the idea of brandy after a shock/fainting spell/exposure to cold or wet.

They do seem over vigilant in some cases, by modern standards. Girls would regularly get put to bed for the day after any sort of shock or upset. That would drive me up the wall! The only times I've ever spent the day in bed are when I'm too sick to physically get out of it.

 

#47:  Author: Joey, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:33 pm

Joan the Dwarf wrote:
And what on earth is all this about displacing organs a la Joey (and a few other people!)??


Me again! My family does seem to have slightly EBD-esque medical history... which I suppose may be why I never found it odd! Look away if you are squeamish... (and I'm glad my mum will never, ever read this!)

One of my mother's Fallopian tubes is longer than usual. This means that her ovary regularly falls out of place and into the pouch of Douglas (which is, briefly and in laymen's terms, the bit of stomach between the uterus and rectum). The only solution would be a major operation, which they don't want to do cos of mum's medical history. It is extremely debilitating.

I've been scannned and told my tube is also too long, so that's a pleasure to look forward to - mum's didn't start really bothering her till her late fifties.

And I can easily see people being wiped out by, as Claire said, indigestion, period pains.... I can't count the number of times I have been forced to take to my bed with stomach cramps! I'm allergic to painkillers (except paracetemol, which isn't strong enough), and modern ones didn't exist in EBD's day. So I can see a lot more people having this problem.

 

#48:  Author: Chris, Location: Nottingham PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:36 pm

Have just seen this thread. One of my daughters, now 17, has always suffered from what my sister calls 'tickle tummy', and when younger would be sick for no apparent reason! She'd just go very pale, and then throw up and then be OK again. It's not so frequent now, but it would happen at least once a week up to about the age of 14. She was also very colicky as a baby, though I don't know if that had anything to do with it.

If I'd put her to bed for the day every time, she'd have missed a lot of school! Perhaps some of CS girls suffered from this sort of thing?

 

#49:  Author: Rosie, Location: Huntingdonshire/Bangor PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:32 pm

jennifer wrote:

Another 'outdated medicine' case I can think of is the idea of brandy after a shock/fainting spell/exposure to cold or wet.


Frankly, I think this is a brilliant idea, and ought to be free on the NHS...

 

#50:  Author: RroseSelavy, Location: Oxford, UK PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:56 pm

Rosie wrote:
jennifer wrote:

Another 'outdated medicine' case I can think of is the idea of brandy after a shock/fainting spell/exposure to cold or wet.


Frankly, I think this is a brilliant idea, and ought to be free on the NHS...


But I think we need to carry out a detailed investigation into its effects first. Perhaps we should look at a range of spirits? Purely in the name of medical research, of course...

 

#51:  Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:36 pm

*Hic!* I agree! Wink

 

#52:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:50 pm

All in the name od Schience of course! party

 

#53:  Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:51 pm

[quote="Joey"]
Joan the Dwarf wrote:
And what on earth is all this about displacing organs a la Joey (and a few other people!)??


There is a condition, Situs Inversus Totalis, where you have all your organs reversed so that what should be on the left is on the right and vice versa.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5345

Not that this could be the displaced organs the Joey is supoesed to have had as I assume that was tempoary and this is a permanent state of affairs

Still interesting though (well I think so).

 

#54:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:26 pm

RroseSelavy wrote:
Rosie wrote:
jennifer wrote:

Another 'outdated medicine' case I can think of is the idea of brandy after a shock/fainting spell/exposure to cold or wet.


Frankly, I think this is a brilliant idea, and ought to be free on the NHS...


But I think we need to carry out a detailed investigation into its effects first. Perhaps we should look at a range of spirits? Purely in the name of medical research, of course...


I can assure everyone that Otard's cognac ( as supplied only to Harrods and Fortnums in the UK) is wonderfully warming, and the warmth stays in your throat for some time.

 

#55:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:04 pm

Katherine wrote:
There is a condition, Situs Inversus Totalis, where you have all your organs reversed so that what should be on the left is on the right and vice versa.


Don't know anyone with this, but Kurt's teeth are all the wrong way round in his mouth, so when he had one taken out after it snapped the dentist was looking in the wrong place for the root - you standardly have the long part of the root on the outside of the jaw and the short on the inside (I think) and his are the other way round. Dentist told him to mention it if he ever has to have a tooth out again.

Mind you I think the fact it was a dental student meant the student was completely shocked and scared when he lost half a tooth in someone's mouth, until the consultant came and poked around and diagnosed it

 

#56:  Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:54 am

Róisín wrote:
I always loved Jem's advice, in Eustacia, about the nerves being closely aligned to the muscles, and she must therefore try to be happy and cheerful as much as she could. I never looked at it in this way before and I think it's quite a nice perspective.


Don't forget that Stacie had recently gone through the trauma of losing both her parents so she may have been tempted to to lie and brood, which would possibly have delayed her recovery. So it was very wise advice in her case.

EBD was writing for girls who would be a lot less knowledgeable than their modernday counterparts so euphemisms and generalisations would be the norm.

Plus the fact that education for females was not seen as so important for upper/middle classes back then so a few days/weeks/months off here and there would not matter in the long run.

 

#57:  Author: Lyanne, Location: Ipswich, England PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:54 pm

going back to bronchitis etc, my mum was born in 1951, and got bronchitis from a neglected cold, and nearly died. the neighbours wrote for my grandad to come home from working away and he came home, rushed mum to the hospital and sacked the housekeeper (who was the one who'd neglected the cold). Mum was off school for a year and stayed with her Aunt & Uncle for 6 months of it. this was when she was about 9.

My boss (born in 1948) had rheumatic fever aged 11 which damaged her heart and had to stay in bed for so long she had to learn how to walk again. (Interestingly, she has to go for yearly checks at the hospital, and recently they told her it may not have been the rhuematic fever that damaged her heart, as she seems to have been born with a missing valve.)

 

#58:  Author: Kate, Location: Ireland PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:54 pm

My mum was in hospital for suspected TB when she was about 6 or so. She was in hospital for about 6 weeks and her parents were told not to visit her because it would "unsettle" her. And so they didn't, because at that time you did exactly what the doctors said.

Half-way through the stay she was transferred to a different hospital which specialised in TB, and in the ambulance on the way, she remembers an old man, with whom she was sharing it, saying "poor child - she'll never leave that place alive." She did (obviously) but possibly only because she didn't actually have TB, just asthma. *rolls eyes*

That was in the early 1960s. My uncle was later in hospital for TB of the bone (probably in the early 1970s). He was in hospital for three days before they thought to tell his family.

I think, considering that, that the Chalet School style of medical care was WELL before its time.

I'm a bit scared by the "twins run in families" theory - there are twins in EVERY generation of my family on my dad's side. Eeep. Am I destined to be a real life Joey?

 

#59:  Author: Tiffany,  PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:21 pm

Is it true that a tendency to TB is genetic? There's a bit in one of the books where the staff and Joey are discussing how pleased they are that Robin's going to be a nun and not have children, since she inherited her "frailty" from her mother; but they all seem quite happy for Joyce Linton, who "isn't strong" and whose mother died of TB, to marry and have children.

 

#60:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:09 pm

No it's not genetic (I think it's even stated in one of the CS books that it's no longer thought to be inherited), it's more a case of you are likely to be in the same conditions as your parents and thus pick it up.

My gran had it when I was tiny and I had to be checked for it in case I had caught it off her - but it was because I'd spent time with her just before it was diagnosed, not because I was her grandaughter. She was the only one in the family that I know to have it

 

#61:  Author: Alex, Location: Manchester, UK PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:23 pm

I had pneumonia this year which was caught in its very early stages and I hadn't been ill beforehand, and even with antibiotics it took me over a month to recover properly, and for the first week of that I did absolutely nothing, and for the second fortnight I did very little. I can see that without antibiotics (and paracetamol (=Acetaminophen in the USA) to bring your temperature down which didn't seem to be around then - at least EBD never mentions it) it would take a very long time to recover.

ETA Just found this http://www.curious.org.uk/asprin.htm which has lots of interesting facts about aspirin and says that paracetamol was invented in the 1950s.

 

#62:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:20 am

TB is a disease that, while not carried genetically, did and does ravage families. Since the bacteria spread through the air (sneezes, etc.), all of those in close contact are likely to be infected, and the disease is more likely to go from latent to active if a person is weakened by illness, malnutrition, etc. In other words, the fear for Robin was not unreasonable.

For a GO account that is fairly likely to have been based on real events, think of Betsy's piano teacher in the Betsy/Tacy books. The disease took three of the four children she took in after their mother's death. In my own family, both a great grandmother and at least one of her children succumbed. This very weekend, I read in Tracey Kidder's book on Dr. Paul Farmer, Mountains Beyond Mountains,
Quote:
In Carabayllo itself, the Socios workers found entire families sick and dying with what turned out to be genetically related strains of the disease -- a phenomenon common enough that the health workers gave it a name, familias tebeceanas, tuberculosis families.
This was less than ten years ago! If anyone is interested in learning more about TB-related conditions that would have been treated in the San, including the horrific bone damage, there's a fair amount in the Kidder book, though perhaps not as much as on the epidemiology and politics of multidrug resistant strains. It's very readable, though.

 

#63:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:58 am

Does anyone know when Tb/BCG vaccinations started? I had one at school in about 1988, and I think my parents had vaccinations at school which would've been in the late 1950s ... could be wrong there though.

 

#64:  Author: Rachel, Location: West Coast of Scotland PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:04 am

Quote:
in 1931 in France, Drs Calmette and Guerin discovered Bacillus Calmett-Guerin (BCG) - a 'tamed' living bacterium. However safety problems occurred during the trials and there were many deaths as a result.


and also

Quote:
BCG Vaccination had been introduced in France and Scandinavia following a survey of 50,000 children which showed an 80% reduction in infection rate. Britain adopted a vaccination programme in the 1950's, America however didn't - as their research showed contrary conclusions.


Further info from THIS SITE

 

#65:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:00 am

Thanks Rachel.

So, if we assume that Prefects was set in 1957/1958 as the triplets were born in 1939, they should have all been being vaccinated by then, given that the school was meant to be so health conscious!

 

#66:  Author: Alex, Location: Manchester, UK PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:54 pm

My Mum was born in 1956 and wasn't vaccinated as a child (UK). I know this because she had to be done when she trained as a teacher which was in 1990/1 ish. So I don't know how widespread the vaccination program in Britain was, maybe they did children who were more at risk due to their housing conditions/family history etc. Or maybe Mum just got missed in the same way that my brother did because he was off school the day of the jab.

 

#67:  Author: Chelsea, Location: Your Imagination PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:30 pm

We don't vaccinate here (Canada) anymore. I worked in London (at the Royal Marsden Hospital) for a summer and had a rather heated argument about not getting the jab after my test by occupational health came back negative. Here, we get the test every year (I work in a hospital) and you want it to show negative - otherwise you have to get a chest x-ray (to prove that you don't have active TB). So, getting a jab would make my life difficult back here and didn't really make much sense for there as I was only in the UK for 3 months and this was about 1 month in and I doubt the vaccination would have been protective much before I left.

 

#68:  Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:52 pm

Chelsea wrote:
We don't vaccinate here (Canada) anymore. I worked in London (at the Royal Marsden Hospital) for a summer and had a rather heated argument about not getting the jab after my test by occupational health came back negative. Here, we get the test every year (I work in a hospital) and you want it to show negative - otherwise you have to get a chest x-ray (to prove that you don't have active TB). So, getting a jab would make my life difficult back here and didn't really make much sense for there as I was only in the UK for 3 months and this was about 1 month in and I doubt the vaccination would have been protective much before I left.


It says here
http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/he.asp?articleID=378&LinkID=1116
that
Quote:
An abnormal chest x-ray may be suggestive of tuberculosis but the diagnosis can only be confirmed by identifying the TB germ in specimens taken from the patient such as the sputum (phlegm).



I was born in 1980 and had friends who had the TB jab at Secondary School (i.e. in the early 90s). It depended on your Health Authority or maybe Local Education Authority - either way, plenty of people were not vaccinated and that's quite recent. Just because a vaccine exists, it doesn't mean the Triplets would have had it. Though I cound understand if Jack had given it to them given the horrors he must have seen at the San.

The wonderful Wikipedia came up with the following:

Quote:
BCG (Bacillus of Calmette and Guerin) . . . was first used on humans on July 18, 1921 in France, although national arrogance prevented its widespread use in either the USA, Great Britain, or Germany until after World War II.


Quote:
In Europe, deaths from TB fell from 500 out of 100,000 in 1850 to 50 out of 100,000 by 1950. Improvements in public health were reducing tuberculosis even before the arrival of antibiotics . . .

So the San must have been a bit short of patients.


Quote:
It was not until 1946 with the development of the antibiotic streptomycin that treatment rather than prevention became a possibility. Prior to then only surgical intervention was possible as supposed treatment (other than sanatoria), including the pneumothorax technique: collapsing an infected lung to "rest" it and allow lesions to heal, which was an accomplished technique but was of little benefit and was discontinued after 1946.


It then goes on to discuss Tuberculosis in art, literature, history and film. However there is no EBD mentined! Anyone care to correct the entry?

 

#69:  Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:39 pm

Katherine wrote:

Quote:
In Europe, deaths from TB fell from 500 out of 100,000 in 1850 to 50 out of 100,000 by 1950. Improvements in public health were reducing tuberculosis even before the arrival of antibiotics . . .

So the San must have been a bit short of patients.


Or they had lots of patients 'cos they were keeping them alive!

Liz

 

#70:  Author: francesn, Location: away with the faeries PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:44 pm

I was vaccinated as a baby in Brent against TB - that was in 86. My mother was done in Ealing in the 50s, so there was definitely some form of programme in place

 

#71:  Author: Joey, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:38 pm

My entire year was innoculated at school, and so was everyone of my generation that I know, and my siblings (I'm 28, and my sibs are 39 and 41). Most people have BCG scars. We hada prick test one week, and then the innoculation the following week. I had a nasty reaction to mine and my scar is about 3 times bigger than it should be, but that's just me!

My dad had it at school in the 60s, but mum didn't in the 50s. She got the smallpox vaccination instead. This is the first I've heard that there might be some people younger than my dad who haven't had it!

Incidentally, did you know that the smallpox innoculation is the only one that is a vaccination? The word comes from the Latin for cowpox, which gives immunity to smallpox (as discovered by Edward Jenner. It's also what Janice Chester gets in Jane). Strictly speaking, people are vaccinated against smallpox and innoculated against anything else, but the term "vaccination" has come to used for any innoculation. [/ sociolinguistics!]

 

#72:  Author: Squirrel, Location: St-Andrews or Dunfermline PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:17 pm

That's interesting Joey. Yes I'm sure my year at school were all done - people who had resistance one year had to be tested the next. And I'm sure you had to go the next year if you missed it as well. And yes, I still have the stunning little scar

 

#73:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:34 pm

Protocol here when I was young was just the tine test. If you tested positive, there was futher testing, followed by treatment if necessary. I wasn't around to hear the official arguments, but my understanding is that the vaccine didn't pass cost/benefit analysis: not effective enough -- something that's been highly variable in trials -- and messed up the test for infection/exposure, making it more difficult to screen for infection of those for whom it didn't work. Also, at that time we were supremely confident in available antibiotics.

Even though I'm usually aggravated by one Microsoft product or another, I'm still impressed at the 83 million Gates' foundation has contributed for TB vaccine development. With the rise of multidrug resistant strains, a vaccine that works consistently here and in the tropics would be a godsend. Of course, we don't yet know whether it will be possible.

 

#74:  Author: Lyanne, Location: Ipswich, England PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:58 pm

There was a bit in Nursery World a while ago about TB being on the increase in London, and how childcare workers are at risk of catching it from the children they work with. I was diagnosed with asthma in 2004, and it took a while to get it under control with inhalers. So my GP sent me for an X-ray, citing that he wanted to make sure my scoliosis wasn't making the asthma worse. I said "I hope I haven't got TB", imagining my preschool having to contact all the parents to ahve thir children sent for tests! My SLOC told me I was being silly as 'no-one gets TB now', but GP did admit when the X-ray came back clear, he had been checking for that as well as the curve of my spine.

 

#75:  Author: Rosie, Location: Huntingdonshire/Bangor PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:58 pm

Squirrel wrote:
That's interesting Joey. Yes I'm sure my year at school were all done - people who had resistance one year had to be tested the next. And I'm sure you had to go the next year if you missed it as well. And yes, I still have the stunning little scar


We were never re-tested, but my aunt apparently had to have the injection every year at school as it never took!

I don't have any scar at all, for some reason.

 

#76:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:51 am

And here's an oddity for everyone: Neither me (I'm 26, 27 in December) nor my brother (just 24) were done for TB. There was no program of vaccinations when we were in school and afaik that goes for the whole of Bristol at least at that time.

I think this has come up on the board before (TB vaccinations, that is) - wonder if that thread was archived...

Ray *scarred by cats only*

 

#77:  Author: Karry,  PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:29 pm

I was vaccinate (innoculated) against TB at the age of six months, as my father had had TB three years before I was born, and they were afraid of lingering germs. All the children i went to school with were tested at the age of 11 in the first year of high school. The dr wouldnt believe I had the injection as a baby, and retested me, even though i had the test a couple of years previously! My parents wrote a nasty letter tot he school as they had not given permission for it to be done! My children, who are now 21 and 18 were done at the age of 11 also in Stoke.

 

#78:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:54 pm

I'm 26 and didn't have it either (until earlier this year when had to have the heaf test - and subsequent vaccination)

I was told if I had it and it didn't take (as in scar) they wouldn't do it again as the likelihood is you;d react badly to a second on. I have a TEENY scar now, it didn't even blister

 

#79:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:57 pm

It's not that surprising that some in their late twenties never had BCG vaccination. The disease was almost eradicated in this country for a time and school authorities or health authorities looked on it as an unneccesary expense. The problem is, that only really works if the eadication is worldwide - like smallpox (apart from all the samples kept in every country's laboratories - 'just in case' Wink ). TB hadn't been eradicated from other countries - in particular in Africa and Asia and, with far greater travel for holidays and emigration, it was easily brought back into the country and discovered a large number of people who had no protection.

 

#80:  Author: francesn, Location: away with the faeries PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:25 pm

Brent (where I was born) have always vaccinated as it was a really popular destination for refugees who brought TB with them. As far as I know that goes for a lot of London boroughs but most of my friends born in Herts weren't done at all and had to be stabbed with a very large needle at 11. Those of us lucky enough not to remember sat in rows and smirked.

Why do schools insist on making vaccinations so public? Did they want to humiliate those scared of needles?

 

#81:  Author: Lulie, Location: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:18 pm

I wasn't vaccinated for the simple reason that I was absent when they did both the "six pricks" test and the actual innoculation. The following two years, when I was given the form to take home to my parents, I was naughty and binned it once I'd left school premises Twisted Evil My reasoning was that I always react badly to needles, cos I'm such a wimp Laughing and I had no wish to make a total fool of myself infront of kids younger than me.

Now I suppose I ought to investigate having the damn thing done as the college where I work has a lot of refugees coming in to do ESOL courses, and they apparently carry all sorts of diseases which we are now at risk from - such as TB. Not that anybody has made a fuss or anything, but somebody High Up told me on the qt that this was so.

Or maybe it won't be worth it? *crosses fingers hopefully*

 

#82:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:30 pm

You just know what I'm going to advise Lulie, don't you? Laughing

You may not need the vaccination - you may have picked up natural immunity anyway.

 

#83:  Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:40 pm

TB innoculations weren't common when I went through school (Canada, and I'm in my early 30s). When I was in Grad school, and went to the health clinic for something completely unrelated they hit me up for a TB test, as more cases were being seen, generally due to immigration from countries where it was more common.
They also did a blood iron test and a tetnaus booster.

The innoculation I remember was the grade 5 girls only German measles, very unfair! I think they hit us then because it was safely pre-pubescent, and you can't have the shot while pregnant.

These days, they do Hepatitis B at about age 11, which I didn't get.

 

#84:  Author: Ann, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:40 pm

I'm 25 and I had the BCG (although we had it in Year 8, so we were 12/13) We also had rubella jabs in Year 7 and measles jabs in Year 9. I remember most of the girls either fainting or pretending to faint an awful lot.

 

#85:  Author: ravenseyes, Location: New Zealand PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:45 am

In NZ we had TB injections in year 9. They stopped doing it in the mid 90s but now the talk is to bring it back as there have been several outbreaks ofTB in Auckland among particulary Pacific Island and refugee families and there are a lot of people from about 1995 onwards who have not been vaccinated.

The big vacine campaign currently is meningicochal meningitis which can kill you in 24 hours so they are vacinating against that.

 

#86:  Author: Squirrel, Location: St-Andrews or Dunfermline PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:47 am

Ooooh - I was one of the first years here who got a menengitas jab - I think I was in 6th year at the time and the whole year got done. The strange thing was that they did us all in the assembly hall rather than in the murses office area where every other jab was done. That will be coming up for 5 years ago somewhere in the next year - or is it 6? Hmmmm - 4 years at college, then going into my second year at uni... Make it 6 then! No wonder I can't remember very well now!

 

#87:  Author: Tiffany,  PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:24 am

Lulie wrote:
Now I suppose I ought to investigate having the damn thing done as the college where I work has a lot of refugees coming in to do ESOL courses, and they apparently carry all sorts of diseases which we are now at risk from - such as TB. Not that anybody has made a fuss or anything, but somebody High Up told me on the qt that this was so.

Or maybe it won't be worth it? *crosses fingers hopefully*


I never had it done at school - at least, they don't think I did, since I didn't have a scar, but my school medical records are lost... but my doctor suggested I have it done last year, since TB is on the increase again in Britain.

 

#88:  Author: pim, Location: Helmel Hampster PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:31 pm

Rosie wrote:
I don't have any scar at all, for some reason.


I thought I didn't but the occupational health advisor managed to find it for me last week. However, I don't think I'll ever find it again it's so titchy *g*

 

#89:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:46 pm

We're very experienced at finding those scars! Laughing

 

#90:  Author: Chelsea, Location: Your Imagination PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:46 pm

jennifer wrote:


The innoculation I remember was the grade 5 girls only German measles, very unfair! I think they hit us then because it was safely pre-pubescent, and you can't have the shot while pregnant.


It's is more because having German measles (for the most part/most people) is only really dangerous for pregnant women as it can cause blindness in the fetus. So, they figured that they only needed to innoculate people who could have babies (i.e. women of child bearing age). They have since decided to innoculate everyone as it helps to provide herd immunity.

See, I knew I would learn something in my Field Epi course.

 

#91:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:02 pm

Not just blindness - I nursed a new born baby that had been exposed to the ruebella virus while in the womb. It was blind and deaf, had severe problems swallowing and severe disabilities. He wasn't expected to live long - I was a student nurse at the time - very sobering.

 

#92:  Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:31 pm

My sis in law was always really scared when pregnant as despite being inoculated several times, it never took and she was really worried (undersatandably) about contracting it

 

#93:  Author: Katarzyna, Location: North West England PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:39 pm

No one would have any difficulty finding my TB scar - sadly i have a weird immune system and ended up with an abcess where they injection went in!

I got the same reaction to the meningitis vaccine, my last tetnus and the rabies shots i had to have whilst working as a veterinary nurse!

is it any wonder i don't like vaccinations!

 

#94:  Author: Rosie, Location: Huntingdonshire/Bangor PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:46 am

Ann wrote:
I remember most of the girls either fainting or pretending to faint an awful lot.


Oh yes, the fun of THAT. I can remember being really annoyed as I had gym the same day and we weren't allowed to do anything active. And most of my class were all moping anyway. I never was a sympathetic soul and I LOVED gym.

 

#95:  Author: Katie, Location: A Yorkshire lass in London PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:00 pm

I remember feeling slightly smug around the time all my friends were getting jabbed with large needles full of TB as I didn't need the vaccination. My little circle of pinpricks did something different to everyone elses and I didn't have to have it. Not quite sure why, but there you go.

 

#96:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:25 pm

Katie wrote:
I remember feeling slightly smug around the time all my friends were getting jabbed with large needles full of TB as I didn't need the vaccination. My little circle of pinpricks did something different to everyone elses and I didn't have to have it. Not quite sure why, but there you go.


I expect you had a positive reaction - meaning you already had immunity. It may have been you were vaccinated as a baby - especially if someone else in the household had TB, or that you'd just aquired a natural immunity. Lucky you! Very Happy

 

#97:  Author: francesn, Location: away with the faeries PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:37 pm

Rightyho immunity question!

At uni as I'm sure all the health - type people are away there are massive Mumps epidemics. Now I was given the jab as a little brat, BUT I have had mumps (and measles and rubella along with scarlet fever, chickenpox, whooping cough and meningitis). Do I have now have immunity to:
a) all of the above, so I don't need any boosters
b) some of the above - if so which
c) none of the above, so I need all the jabs

However you'll be pleased to know my HepB, Tetanus, Polio and Diptheria are all up to date!

Answers on a postcard please.

 

#98:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:05 am

francesn wrote:
Answers on a postcard please.


*obligingly tries to squash postcard into modem*

 

#99:  Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:41 am

Rubella immunity can wear off, so you may need that again.

Chickenpox you should be immune to if you've had it already. I think the same goes for mumps.

Liz

 

#100:  Author: Katarzyna, Location: North West England PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:17 am

LizB wrote:
Chickenpox you should be immune to if you've had it already. Liz


Not necessarily!

Have now had chicken pox 11 times and still have no immunity to it! It would appear that if anyone who has been in contact with chicken pox so much as walks past me i can catch it!

So far haven't had it this year but I am sure there is still time!

 

#101:  Author: Katya, Location: Mostly Bradford PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:27 am

On the subject of TB jabs and scars, did anyone else notice how, for about six weeks after the jabs were done, if you so much as stepped on someone's toe they would immediately clap their hand over their upper arm and yell, "Mind my TB jab!" and glare at you? Wink

In Derby we were all innoculated at age 12/13. They stopped the programme a few years later, but have since found the TB rate going up, partly due to the ethnic mix in Derby and more contact with India, Pakistan, etc. Not sure if they've decided to start innoculations again. You can only eradicate things if you have sufficient herd immunity before you stop innoculating, like they did with smallpox, of which I believe there are now only two virus stocks held - one in the USA, one in Russia. Wonder why that might have been Wink They keep debating whether to destroy them because of the terrorist threat or keep them for research.

I also remember going into the room to have my BCG and the nurse, as she brandished the needle, saying, "Ah, hello Kathryn! How's your mum?" I couldn't help feeling she was missing the point (if you'll pardon the [for once completely unintentional] pun)!

 

#102:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:31 am

I would be very surprised if there are only those two virus stocks held.

*Lesley with cynical head on.*

 

#103:  Author: Katya, Location: Mostly Bradford PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:40 am

Quote:
I would be very surprised if there are only those two virus stocks held.


That's certainly the official position. There are more stocks of vaccine, and the means to make lots more, but only two stocks of the virus itself. The vaccine is no longer made from the virus, but they've been keeping it for research, in case of new, resistant strains, biological terrorism, etc.

More here: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/notes/2005/np_wha02/en/

They discussed it at length at one of the meetings I did earlier in the year. Can't remember the number of times I had to type 'smallpox'! (Better than the meeting where they discussed polio - we're not allowed to abbreviate it, and poliomyelitis is very awkward to type. Try it!)

If there are any other stocks anywhere, they'd be VERY unofficial...

 

#104:  Author: francesn, Location: away with the faeries PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:51 pm

hmmmmmm *official positions*

didn't some terrorist group claim they'd got hold of some? And I'm fairly prepared to be there are others in research labs they're not telling people about.....

 

#105:  Author: Mia, Location: London PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:54 pm

Katya wrote:
I also remember going into the room to have my BCG and the nurse, as she brandished the needle, saying, "Ah, hello Kathryn! How's your mum?" I couldn't help feeling she was missing the point (if you'll pardon the [for once completely unintentional] pun)!


Lol. I had to go with someone to hospital for an emergency tetanus jab. My friend was sat there waiting for the injection and they asked me, the bystander, if I was OK with needles! Smile

 

#106:  Author: LadyGuinevere, Location: Leicester PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:28 am

Going all the way back to the rheumatic fever, I discovered this weekend that my grandmother has had it twice - once as a teenager and once in her twenties. One of those times she was in hospital for six months with it (this would have been in the 1940s/1950s I believe).

It didn't affect her heart, but she always has to inform doctors she had it, just in case it did.

 

#107:  Author: Alex, Location: Manchester, UK PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:34 pm

Alex having TB jab at school

Alex: I need to sit down when you give me the injection otherwise I will faint.

Nurse: There's no need to worry dear, you'll be fine.

Alex: I'm not worried I'm just telling you I'm going to faint when you stick the needle in me.

Nurse: Don't be silly dear, just hug the nurse.

Nurse:(vaguely overheard by Alex from her unconscious stupor on the floor) This one isn't very well.

They didn't want me to sit down because they thought it would save time, and they were trying to stop me making a fuss. In the end, it held everyone up for longer because I was on the floor. I wasn't making a fuss. I just faint because my blood pressure doesn't know how to behave. To be fair I'd probably still have fainted if I'd have been allowed to sit down, but I wouldn't have fallen as far. At the doctors' they are very sensible and say it is easier to let me lie down than to have to pick me up afterwards.

 

#108:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:40 pm

There was one injection I had recently (it may have been the TB one) and the nurse said that one really had to be done standing up (I think it was due to the different way your arm falls when you stand as opposed to sitting) so it may not have been anything to do with saving time,

I sat down for hepatitis and lay down for tetanus which I had at the same time

 

#109:  Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:06 pm

Still marginally off topic and almost a joke.

#1 daughter wanted to be a Nurse.

She had to have a medical.

She HATED needles. (still does when aimed at herself)

I couldn't do the motherly thing and go with her due to work.

Friend (living with us at the time and known as Mad Margaret) offered to go.

Syringe is produced.

Mad Margaret faints.

#1 daughter faints.

#1 daughter goes on to become a Theatre Sister.

 

#110:  Author: LadyGuinevere, Location: Leicester PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:13 pm

claire wrote:
There was one injection I had recently (it may have been the TB one) and the nurse said that one really had to be done standing up (I think it was due to the different way your arm falls when you stand as opposed to sitting) so it may not have been anything to do with saving time,



Strange... I clearly remember sitting down, and having a hand on the hip for TB jab!

 

#111:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:33 am

Maybe it wasn't the TB one, I had a lot of injections that day

 

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