Josette
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#1: Josette Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:16 pm

Having been reading Peggy, all the references to Josette's fraility (sp?!) and general fragility are really irritating me. About two terms before, in Three Go, we're told she's basically fine (well, she tells Mary-Lou so) - "They've always fussed ever since I was scalded when I was a small kid. And it's so mad, 'cos I'm as fit as anyone now..." -- but in Peggy... "The child had never really been robust since..." "There was a chance she might'nt live.." After being in Canada: "His last report was that Josette has finally recovered all she lost during those awful years..." Anyway. My main point here was that, didn't she only get a burn? If so, quite how has it contrived to be so terrible? Or did I never really read it properly and was it actually far more serious? Oh, and also...do you think Corney Flower was some sort of pun on cauliflower?

Last edited by Laura on Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

 

#2:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:27 pm

Laura, a severe enough burn can kill someone.Especially in the 1940's when there was only basic surgery for skin grafting - mainly learnt during the Battle of Britain. Plus a child is at severe danger of dehydration as burns lose copious amounts of fluid. Josette was quite ill during Gay - though I agree that she seems to have gone backward between Three Go and Peggy!

 

#3:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:29 pm

I think it was pretty major, given the length of time she was ill in Gay and statements such as
Quote:
Jem says that if she weathers another week she’ll pull through
. Still, I do agree that both the blaming of Sybs and the fears for Josette go on way too long -- and, as you point out, contradictorily.

 

#4:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:31 pm

OK thanks! Which book is it featured in? Equally is it something which is cut back for the PB version?

 

#5:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:13 pm

But there again, in Madge's favour (and after the way they all treated Sybil that doens't often happen - I liked her up to then) maybe almost losing her made them overprotective, I'm sure I would be if it was one of mine

 

#6:  Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Devon PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:40 pm

Mmmm, I always thought they overdid the frailty bit myself Laura!

 

#7:  Author: JackieJ, Location: Kingston upon Hull PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:23 pm

Having just read Gay (I thought for the first time, although some bits I seemed to remember, but I don't remember ever having the book, so am now confused), I'm now confused as to a comment made after the school has moved to Switzerland that Sybil hates being told she's pretty because it was her vanity that caused Josette's accident. I'm just a little befuddled as to how Syb's vanity can have caused her to drop the kettle onto Josette. Any ideas? JackieJ

 

#8:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:34 pm

Sybs had been given an inflated idea of her own importance by all the compliments on her looks which caused her to have an over inflated idea of what she was and wasn't capable of. Despite being repeatedly told not to touch the kettle and play around in the kitchen by her mother, she thought she knew better. Ray *Smile*

 

#9:  Author: JackieJ, Location: Kingston upon Hull PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:48 pm

Now it makes sense. Thank you Very Happy JackieJ

 

#10:  Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:35 pm

I may be wrong, but I understood that the main problem was not the burns per se, but that the whole affair had affected her heart and I assumed that was what had caused the ongoing frailty?

 

#11:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:16 pm

Ah, clever. See, I just had some vague memory of a kettle being involved SOMEWHERE... And yep, now it makes sense for me too Jackie!

 

#12:  Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:09 am

I reread about this in the HB today, and Madge tells Miss Bubb that no-one (including Jem) would have blamed Sybs if it had been an accident, the only reason they were angry was because she disobeyed. There's also some mention of Sybs worrying herself into a fever and Matron ordering Jem to the school and telling him to wise up Laughing I liked that bit!

 

#13:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:41 am

Almost as good as when Matey calls in Jack Maynard on a hot Sunday afternoon. Jack out-argues Miss Bubb, and Matey listens with great pleasure.

 

#14:  Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:02 am

On the matter of Sybil, I read a comment in 'Goes to It' yesterday where Joey advises Simone not to have Sybil as a bridesmaid
Quote:
'But I do not advise you to have Sybil your wedding wouldn't lack incident if you did, but I doubt it would be a peaceful affair'
Considering that all the other cousins etc.. were bridesmaids, if Sybil regularly got this treatment, I'm not surprised her behaviour didn't improve and she disobeyed orders!!

 

#15:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:52 pm

Yes, she does seem to get victimised a lot, especially by Jo.

 

#16:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:41 pm

Trying to think of a reason for that the only thing i can come up with (in my shallow mind) is that Jo was envious of Sybil cos she was prettier than her daughters?! As usual - I don't know! Rolling Eyes

 

#17:  Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:55 pm

My take on it was that Madge and Jem (though I got the impression that he regarded bringing children up as 'women's work') spoilt Sybil until Josette had her 'accident'. Then they over-reacted and went to the other extreme. I wonder if Josette replaced Jo in Madge's mind as the 'frail child who needed cosseting'? Whatever the reasons, I thought Madge and Jem came out badly in their treatment of both Sybil and Josette. With Sybil because she should never have been allowed to get into the situation of having access to a boiling kettle and Josette because she was overprotected after her recovery.

 

#18:  Author: HELEN W, Location: Nottingham PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:13 pm

I wondered if this was also the reason why Sybil was never made HeadGirl despite all the other Russell/Bettany/Maynard girls that were, well the ones that were old enough of course Question

 

#19:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:19 pm

As far as the Head Girl position goes, Sybs never shows any of the self-less-ness/responsability that was required to be the HG. If you look at her as compared to Bride, for example, Bride's shown as being responsible throughout the books - she does her best with Lavender and then Tom and then Annis. She's someone that you feel you could have gone to with a problem, whereas Sybs never comes across as that. Ray *isn't sure she's making sense again*

 

#20:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:00 am

But as far as I could see Sybs was never really a completely central character in any of the books, whereas Bride and co usually end up with major roles - Sybil makes generally about three or so comments in each book and, aside from that, merely stands around as a walk-on character or just as a stunningly beautiful person in he background. Confused

 

#21:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:43 pm

So she gets a raw deal from EBD, because EBD wanted the focus to be on Jo and her family.

 

#22:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:51 pm

In a way I'm surprised to see she allowed Josette to be HG. And she really only had Sybil as a Prefect as an afterthought!

 

#23:  Author: Ellie, Location: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:44 pm

I alway's assumed, wrongly perhaps, that Sybil was never HG because EBD wanted to avoud accusations of favouritism.

 

#24:  Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:03 pm

Ellie wrote:
I alway's assumed, wrongly perhaps, that Sybil was never HG because EBD wanted to avoud accusations of favouritism.
But she has Jo, Robin, Daisy, Peggy, Bride, Josette, Maeve and Len!!! Poor Sybil! Rolling Eyes

 

#25:  Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:09 pm

I just think EBD didn't like her, and therefore couldn't write about her nicely. You can see it also with Grizel, when she reforms her slightly after Head Girl, but then makes strange comments about her being jealous of Robin in Exile. Perhaps if EBD had lived long enough, Sybil would have re-entered the scene as an adult, and been reformed.

 

#26:  Author: Ellie, Location: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:19 pm

I think there's a line in one of the books, sorry, can't remember which, when someone say's that Josette is only HG because she's Madge's daughter and someone responds by pointing out that if that was the case Sybil would have been HG too. That's probably how I got that impression.

 

#27:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:24 pm

I have completely missed something - when was Maeve headgirl?! I'm shocked at myself! Surprised

 

#28:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:27 pm

In Feude, Triplets and whatever-the-heck-the-summer-term-book-is that year. Ray *can't remember the title*

 

#29:  Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:34 pm

Jane! And somehow Maeve ends up at school after Josette, despite being over a year older Rolling Eyes (but we won't get into that now!)

 

#30:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:34 pm

Ah, that explains a lot. That's the only era I never managed to buy - I got them from my library when I was about 8 and haven't touched them since! Grr.

 

#31:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:45 am

Ally wrote:
Jane! And somehow Maeve ends up at school after Josette, despite being over a year older Rolling Eyes (but we won't get into that now!)
*grins* Thanks Ally - I knew it was a book I hadn't read more than once (if at all). As for Josette's age, it had never struck me before that she'd been dramatically aged like that (particularly in relationship to Maeve), but now you mention it, she WAS supposed to be barely six months older than the triplets... Ray *EBD*

 

#32:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:28 am

I never notice any of these age things! I try and work them out, but get such weird answers I decided I was just bad at maths - but then they're all EBDisms! OUt of interest, how many years about the trips was Josette??! Or was that why she was made an infant prodigy - so they didnt come into contact formwise?!

 

#33:  Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:25 am

There is about a year between them. Josette's birth month is given as anything between August and December in the books, but it still works out to about 12-14 months difference. Josette and the triplets all seem to be clever and advanced for their age, so therefore avoid each other. Maeve is about 18 months older than Josette, as she is born in the Spring of New CS.

 

#34:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:10 pm

I thought that Sybils was about 6 months old when exile reopens a few months after Jo and Jack's marriage so unless they were a little um anticipant of their vows she's over a year older

 

#35:  Author: Vikki, Location: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:13 pm

But, when exile reopens, it says Jo has been Jo Maynard for the past ten months.....

 

#36:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:57 pm

claire wrote:
I thought that Sybils was about 6 months old when exile reopens a few months after Jo and Jack's marriage so unless they were a little um anticipant of their vows she's over a year older
Um, Sybs was abour four when the school reopened, Claire... Ray *possibly confused*

 

#37:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:23 pm

Maybe she meant Josette? Confused

 

#38:  Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:31 pm

Do you mean when the school re-opened, which was the end of August, or when the narrative of Exile begins in Guernsey (Chapter XIII ~ The Chalet School Revives) as that chapter is 10 months after Jo and Jack are married, and is therefore about May/June.

 

#39:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:50 pm

I did mean Josette and misread the 10 months as 1 month Embarassed

 

#40:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:55 pm

Knowing EBD's treatment of time, it was an easy mistake to make.

 

#41:  Author: Ellie, Location: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:22 am

I wonder how Sybil felt about being passed over, in later years as she watched all her sisters and cousins become HG?

 

#42:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:16 am

I may have made this up, but didnt they not let her go to needlework college either, which was always her dream that she worked really hard for?

 

#43:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:20 am

Nope. You haven't made that up, Laura - that's exactly what happened. Both Sybs and Josette missed out on going further in education when Madge dragged them to Australia with her. Josette missed out on going to Millies (and then, I presume, she missed out on whatever her college plans were because by the end of the series, she was married!) and yep, Sybs missed out on art school. Ray *wonders exactly what EBD had in for both girls*

 

#44:  Author: Rosea, Location: Edinburgh PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:23 am

Didn't Josette at least go to uni in Australia? I thought her husband was the brother of a friend of hers at uni? So she didnt get to go to LSE, but she did get to go on to futher study??

 

#45:  Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:18 am

Ray wrote:
Ray *wonders exactly what EBD had in for both girls*
They were getting in the way of Maynard domination of course! Wink

 

#46:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:22 am

Of course. Silly me... Ray *hitting self with a clue by four*

 

#47:  Author: Laura, Location: London (ish) PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:59 am

The scary thing is - I think that's actually it!

 

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