And Must not Be Troubled...
The CBB -> Question Time

#1: And Must not Be Troubled... Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: Devon PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:15 pm


Okay, I realise that conception, pregnancy and birth were taboo during the time that the CS was set, but honestly, wouldn't you think that the girls would cotton on rather than being continually shocked and surprised as baby brothers and sisters appear as regular as clockwork? I'm sure there's a bit where the girls are 14-15 and are amazed when Joey presents them with the latest offspring. Plus, as Joey is always described as think wouldn't a third trimester bump seem a little odd?

 


#2:  Author: XantheLocation: London/Cambridge PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:17 pm


With girls who are away from home you can understand it a bit more... at a stretch... but I suspect it is one of those glorious "we shall never speak of this" things... *sigh*

 


#3:  Author: LissLocation: Harrow, London PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:22 pm


Yes, I suspect this is a case of EBD not reflecting real life particularly. Certainly by the later books, there is no way that I can see the girls not knowing when women were pregnant, no matter how sheltered they were. ETA: I can, however, see Joey not knowing when Madge was pregnant with Sybil. What I can't understand is why Madge didn't actually bother telling her own sister!!!

 


#4:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:24 pm


I don't think EBD would have thought it was the proper thing to do.

 


#5:  Author: cazLocation: Cambridge PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:26 pm


Maybe Madge meant to, but Joey was too busy resucing people to stop and listen. Wink

 


#6:  Author: CazxLocation: Swansea/Bristol PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:39 pm


I think the excuse was so that Jo wouldn't worry, I also think it's a bit much that Jo wasn't told about Madge being pregnant with Kevin and Kester, she should have been told then! Considering how old Madge was the risks must have been quite high and I bet Jo would have felt awful if something had happened and she hadn't been there or told her how much she cared for her.

 


#7:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:44 pm


Actually with the number of pregnancies they all have their children would probably be quite used to their mother having a bump, and some women barely show at all. I work with one man who admits that he, at 18, didn't realise his mother was pregnant till she was about 7/8 months - and it was only after the midwife came round that he realised, his argument was that he was away at uni for the term time and just figured she was putting on a bit of weight

 


#8:  Author: Ianswythe PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 7:29 pm


With Sybil Madge did drop hints but Jo was too thick Very Happy to notice, I think you didn't come right out and say these things back then.

 


#9:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: Devon PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:12 pm


Yes, just made cryptic comments about little visitors and enlarging the family. I know the bit you mean Ianswythe about Joey being too thick to notice, but I distinctly remeber combing the book for the refernces she supposedly made and finding none! Unless they were sooooo cryptic that i must join Joey in being thick!

 


#10:  Author: MarianneLocation: Lancaster PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:16 pm


I didn't know my mum was pregnant with my sister and i was 11, she was 6mths pregnant when she told me!

 


#11:  Author: AngelLocation: London, England PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:20 pm


I think it's in Peggy that there's references to the pregnancy, but I get the impression that Jack and Jem were conspiring against Joey... Very Happy

 


#12:  Author: cazLocation: Cambridge PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:22 pm


*confused*

 


#13:  Author: AngelLocation: London, England PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 pm


I remember reading Peggy, knowing that Madge was pregnant, and picking up a reference to them staying put in canada, and something Jack says suggests something is going on.

 


#14:  Author: CazxLocation: Swansea/Bristol PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:44 pm


Dreaming Marianne wrote:
Yes, just made cryptic comments about little visitors and enlarging the family. I know the bit you mean Ianswythe about Joey being too thick to notice, but I distinctly remeber combing the book for the refernces she supposedly made and finding none! Unless they were sooooo cryptic that i must join Joey in being thick!
I thought that Jem just said to Joey "Well Madge did try to drop you some hints," And that we didn't see them.

 


#15:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 4:10 pm


I think there are more references to pregnancy in the latter books. In the earlier ones, especially the Tyrol ones, it all seems a surprise, and the Triplets are too. However, hints are dropped about Stephen in Highland Twins, and certainly in the Swiss books, the references which are there are clearer!

Last edited by Ally on Thu May 27, 2004 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

 


#16:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: Devon PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 5:17 pm


Yes I agree Ally (though not being blessed with an encyclopaedic memory can't remember which ones!)

 


#17:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Leeds PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 5:19 pm


Ianswythe wrote:
With Sybil Madge did drop hints but Jo was too thick Very Happy to notice, I think you didn't come right out and say these things back then.
The only hint I remember was that Madge refused to have many of the school staying at Die Rosen during half term in The Lintons and Joey said she couldn't think why. eta: There are definite references to Joey being pregnant with Cecil. I have a feeling even Mary-Lou is told when she's only about five months on.

 


#18:  Author: LadyGuinevereLocation: Leicester PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:55 pm


In Changes Joey tells the staff that Hilary Graves is expecting a new baby in October... and I think this takes place in about May.... certainly the beginning of the summer term. ~LadyG

 


#19:  Author: DonnaLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:08 pm


In Trials Jo practically comes right out and says 'I'm pregnant' - she doesn't use those exact words, but the meaning is very, very clear. i think EBD is definitely more open about it in the later books.

 


#20:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:34 pm


In one of the swiss books she's knitting little baby clothes which gives it away

 


#21:  Author: CazxLocation: Swansea/Bristol PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:15 pm


In Theodora even the trips know that Jo's pregnant with the twins and we found out in the book before, Trials I think it was!

 


#22:  Author: HelenLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:38 am


My mum can remember when she was eight and saying to her mother something like "mummy you are getting fat". Nana just said something about it being the clothes. A week later my uncle was born. That would have been in 1936.

 


#23:  Author: AliceLocation: London, England PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:02 am


In Jo Returns Mollie tells Jo that there will be a new brother or sister for Rix, Peggy, Bride and Jackie in the spring. This comes not long after Madge only hinting that she is pregnant with Sybil. I suppose this is one of the changes with Jo suddenly being grown up.

 


#24:  Author: RachelLocation: West Coast of Scotland PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:13 am


When you think about it, when Joey starts threatening Quads, that's really when we begin to see a more open attitude towards childbearing. You can't imagine Madge running around discussing her plans in the manner Joey does, but for Joey, almost a generation younger than her sister, it is acceptable. The references "I really must think about those quads again!" which everyone always laughs hysterically at in the books is almost Joey announcing her and Jack are going to make some more babies!

 


#25:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: Devon PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:10 pm


lol, yes but even having a new girls tea could be construed thus as she practically always is pregnant!

 


#26:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 3:36 pm


*suddenly understands the subject title Embarassed *

 


#27:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:43 pm


Yes, ladies were considered to be in a delicate condition when pregnant.

 


#28:  Author: KatLocation: Swansea PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 4:28 pm


This is from A United Chalet School:
Quote:
Oh, by the way, I've some news for you! Bernie is expecting a new arrival in November. She said I might tell you."
(Jo talking to Wanda) Nothing discreet about that one! And Jo seems to be being remarkably grown up about it considering how she hates the idea of all her friends being mothers etc.

 


#29:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 6:33 pm


Jo's not particularly tactful in most cases though, especially in the Tyrol books. Some women feel find about saying someone else in pregnant but not that they themselves are - particulary to close family. I know several people who have said they dreaded telling their mother (I did a little) as it means you're admitting to your parents that you have sex - although when you are married or living with your partner they will have worked that out for themselves

 


#30:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: Devon PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 7:44 pm


Yes I felt that too - I rang my mother on the mobile and made her pull into a layby before I told her. i think by the time she put the handbrake on she was so worried it was a relief when i did tell her! My partner, on the other hand, was less tactful - he rang up his mamma and his first words were - "Hello Granny!"

 


#31:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 9:58 pm


When my mother was pregnant with me and Dad took her to the doctor, he waited outside, and when she came out, she greeted him with 'Hello, Daddy'. I believe he cried. Very Happy

 


#32:  Author: KatarzynaLocation: North West England PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 11:56 am


Oh dear, and my father when asked as my mother was taken to the delivery room to have me was asked by one of the nurses whether he wanted a boy or a girl. His answer.................. Well to be honest, I'd rather have a cat!!!!!

 


#33:  Author: CiorstaidhLocation: London PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:06 pm


Jennie wrote:
Yes, ladies were considered to be in a delicate condition when pregnant.
Some are... evidently not anywhere near all, but my friend Katie is expecting at the moment, and she's tried for eight years to get pregnant (she's had at least one bad miscarriage). So she really must not be worried. This attitude is also still propelled in television - just watch Coronation Street this week (I've read the paper). You really would think that people would pick up on "busy", "mustn't be worried", in fact even just the glow that pregnant women have (and when they start "feeling tired" and going for a lie down Laughing )

 


#34:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 7:36 pm


And some end up stuck on total bed rest, as with one of my sisters. Though I don't know about the "not...troubled" part, as her employer installed office equipment in her bedroom, so she worked from bed while simultaneously watching older child.

 


#35:  Author: catherineLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 7:55 pm


My father does nothing complain that my sister spoilt a boiled egg because he'd just put one one when he got the call to tell him she was on her way! He even brought it up at her wedding - something about he knew she was destined to cause him trouble when she spoilt his boiled egg before she was even born!! My cousin is pregnant with her first child - she told me at the Wedding Reception and I remember how I'd looked at her earlier in the day and thought how pretty she was looking - when she told me, I realised it was the glow of contentment. She kept it secret from my mum until the next day so as not to steal the limelight and when she walked into breakfast, she greeted my mum with "How's the Great Aunt's head today?" My mum didn't get it at first and my cousin had to say "no, you didn't hear me properly, did you? I said, how's the GREAT AUNT'S head today?" My mum was decidedly put out to find she was the last to know!!! I agree though that I cannot understand how CS girls did not realise when someone was 'busy' - surely the fact that someone was putting on weight, if nothing else, would have told them?!!

 


#36:  Author: GemLocation: Saltash/Aberystwyth PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:47 pm


In Gay, Madge tells Joey that she can't take over as Headmistress because the family's expecting an extension. I was only about 7 when I read it for the first time, and I had to ask my mother why having an extension added to the house (we were having our conservatory built at the time) meant that she couldn't take Hilda's place!

 


#37:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:05 pm


What was your mother's reaction

 


#38:  Author: PatLocation: Doncaster PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:50 pm


When my daughter told me she was pregnant she told me she would like a pram for Christmas!!!! I think that was her idea of breaking the news gently since they were counting from the honeymoon!!!!

 


#39:  Author: MissPrintLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:16 pm


When I turned up at church with my newborn daughter, nearly everyone couldn't believe she was mine, and indeed asserted to me, that I wasn't pregnant, was I? I may be fat now, but at that time I was generally a size 12, and I'm tall, so I'd have thought they would have noticed. Even young people were surprised. The three people whe were not surprised were my priest whom I'd told, a retired midwife and a doctor. Everyone else just didn't notice, or thought I was getting fat. And I had been wondering why everyone was ignoring me, and my delicate condition. This was only 15 years ago. And as I was in the choir, I was at the front, and in full view, I could hardly believe it.

 


#40:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:50 pm


I have been told on occasion when I have told people I was pregnant (oh I wondered if you were - or if you were just getting fat) That said in the chemist the other day I was greeted by the assistant saying "Bl**dy hell! You're not having another one are you?" (no I'm not by the way)

 


#41:  Author: Rachael PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:50 am


Claire!! How rude Shocked What did you reply?

 


#42:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:12 pm


I hope you were suitably scathing, Claire, what a dreadful thing to say to you.

 


#43:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:18 pm


It wasn't as bad as it sounds - she said it because I was buying pregnancy multivitamins (well pregnancy and breastfeeding but it just says pregnancy in big letters) as least I hope it was because of the packet and not the belly (back under 9 stone now so it shouldn't be - still got a bit of a bump though)

 


#44:  Author: Ruth BLocation: Oxford, UK PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:11 pm


Apparently after I was born, people(you know the butcher baker candlestick maker type people) kept asking her who's baby she was looking after. Apparently she didn't look pregnant at all! Mind you I was 'ickle - only 6lb!

 


#45:  Author: MissPrintLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:06 pm


The butcher in the village where a friend lives wanted to put her in his window as an advert for how wonderful his meat was because she got so huge when she was pregnant. I'm amazed she didn't smack him round the ear. I know I would have done so. I feel better now Ruth B, I thought everyone was being particualrly stupid about me, but then my daughter was only six and a half pounds. But just before she was born my waist measured 44 inches instead of its usual 28, which I should have thought hard to ignore, not to mention the fact that my boobs had doubled in size (and they were hardly small to begin with). Some people just don't look properly.

 


#46:  Author: EllieLocation: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:23 pm


Maybe people were just being tactful? A colleague was very embarrassed when he asked a woman if she was pregnant and she wasn't - just getting chubby.

 


#47:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:40 am


Both your daughter MissPrint and Ruth wieghed more than either of my daughters did (one was 5lb 10 and the other 5lb 12) so maybe not surprising most people took a while to work it out - not sure what I did different in the last pregnancy but something must have gone a bit haywire - jumped to 7lb 13

 


#48:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:14 am


When I was expecting the twins who were due end of March, I visited a friend who'd just had her baby and the midwives thought I was about to produce and this was mid November Embarassed Mind you weights were: Jess (2 weeks late) 7lb 1oz Matty & Chris (more than 2 weeks early) 5lb15oz and 7lb Thank goodness they finally got them out before term Very Happy

 


#49:  Author: AlexLocation: Manchester, UK PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:45 pm


In one she says something like "We're expecting number nine in May"

 


#50:  Author: Lisa_TLocation: Belfast PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38 pm


and as Donna said, she tells Hilda and Co about phil and geoff very openly. also in Ruey there's a lovely conversation between jo and evvy over childbearing and evvy's thinking she was too old... i couldn't believe that when i first read it in the transcript. EBD hinting at the menopause? shock horror Shocked Also Hilda is told in Carola about Felix and Felicity. In fact I'm almost tempted to wonder if Jo told Hilda before she told Jack... and Hilda is always so concerned for Joey when she's pregnant too which is lovely. (Carola, Trials, Theodora).

 


#51:  Author: KatLocation: Swansea PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:33 am


I was 8lb 11 - no wonder mum looks so zonked in all the photo's!! EBD and pregnancy never seem to go very well together - she doesn't seem to be able to make up her mind whether to be blunt or use subtle hints.... just another way of confusing her poor readers?!

 


#52:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:48 pm


I don't think she knew much about it, or about S*E*X, either. At least she didn't subscribe to the doctor's black bag or the gooseberry bush school of thought.

 


#53:  Author: Lisa_TLocation: Belfast PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:55 pm


*g* Well, at least she knows the basics. There aren't any cases of two babies in a 12 month interval (two singletons, obviously!!!!). Mind you, if there was, we'd prob all just say, 'oh, another EBDism!"

 


#54:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:19 pm


To be fair, EBD could be viewed as advanced in her treatment of pregnancy compared to many of her contemporaries among children's authors. (Can anyone think of exceptions?) Sometimes I get the feeling she's trying hard to be "modern," as with allowing smoking in the staff room. (edited for grammar)

Last edited by Kathy_S on Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:59 am; edited 1 time in total

 


#55:  Author: EllieLocation: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:55 am


Lisa_T wrote:
*g* Well, at least she knows the basics. There aren't any cases of two babies in a 12 month interval (two singletons, obviously!!!!). Mind you, if there was, we'd prob all just say, 'oh, another EBDism!"
But, my cousin had two 'singletons' in a space of eleven months!

 


#56:  Author: LulieLocation: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:29 am


Ellie wrote:
Lisa_T wrote:
*g* Well, at least she knows the basics. There aren't any cases of two babies in a 12 month interval (two singletons, obviously!!!!). Mind you, if there was, we'd prob all just say, 'oh, another EBDism!"
But, my cousin had two 'singletons' in a space of eleven months!
Two of my cousins are eleven months apart in age, and her two children are also eleven months apart in age.

 


#57:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:16 am


Runs away screaming at the thought. It was bed enought with a 3 1/2 year gap.

 


#58:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:21 pm


Lisa_T wrote:
*g* Well, at least she knows the basics. There aren't any cases of two babies in a 12 month interval (two singletons, obviously!!!!). Mind you, if there was, we'd prob all just say, 'oh, another EBDism!"
Bride was supposed to be 11 months younger than Peggy and Rix.

 


#59:  Author: MissPrintLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:52 am


There's barely twelve months between me and my brother, less if he'd arrived on time (lazy beggar). Mum thought you couldn't get pregnant whilst nursing, and only went to the doctors because she thought she had chronic indigestion.

 


#60:  Author: KirstyLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:21 pm


Kathy_S wrote:
To be fair, EBD could be viewed as advanced in her treatment of pregnancy compared to many of her contemporaries among children's authors. (Can anyone think of exceptions?)
I was going to say EJO, but thinking over it, she's not as "open" about it as EBD was. However, she did give poor Rosamund 2 sets of twins in under 12 months Shocked Shocked ETA: Changed Rosemary to Rosamund - need to read the books more often if I'm gong to cite them correctly!

Last edited by Kirsty on Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total

 


#61:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:44 pm


I once took a claim off a woman who had an 8 month old and a 3 week old (baby was premature and still in hospital and the elder was nearly 9 months but still)

 


#62:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:21 pm


Two sisters at my school, born ten months apart were actually in the same year. It made for some awkward explanantions, because everyone thought they were twins.

 


#63:  Author: LulaLocation: Midlands, UK PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:19 pm


One of my cousins found she was pregnant approximately eight weeks after having her third child, and then had twins... at some time over the next nine months she also relocated to Sweden, I'm not sure if she's very brave or very crazy...

 


#64:  Author: CatrionaLocation: South Yorkshire PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:19 pm


I know of someone at work who had a single girl followed exactly 11 months later by twin girls.

 


#65:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:48 pm


That would be my luck, any accidental pregnancy would be twins, with Katja I was so hoping she'd be a singleton as Alicia was only 6 months old when I conceived (although that was planned)

 


#66:  Author: jackie greenLocation: Rotherham PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:58 pm


Somebody I used to know had triplets via ivf and then fell pregnant naturally when they were 3 moths old. Imagine, 4 kiddles under 2....

 


#67:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:24 pm


I'm only 14 months younger than my brother. My parents had problems having kiddies (or rather carrying to term). My mom's doc told her that her best chance at having another kid was to have it (me) right away (not sure of the logic).

 


#68:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:02 pm


Both my cousins, and my grandmother and her brother (from different sides of the family) were born a year apart in January.

 


#69: hints Author: crapaud PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:34 pm


In Exile there are many hints about Joey being pregnant with the triplets in the hardback edition. I remember that Robin had been told by Jack/Jem that Joey wasn't to be worried and I got the impression that Robin knew that it was a pregnancy. That's why Robin wouldn't tell Joey her fears about Gertrud being a spy. Robin must only have been aged 16 then, not sure, but seems early for the time. Also Robin tells Polly Heriot that Joey is to be kept quiet, and Polly whistles and says 'oh it's like that is it', Polly could not have been that old then too.

 


#70:  Author: ravenseyesLocation: New Zealand PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:02 pm


In one of the swiss books Joey tells the prefects that number 9 is due. She has got a big scarf from Con Stewart in Maderia and she gives them the play ? Possibly New Mistress ? I think ELinor is HG

 


#71:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:06 pm


This is in Genius/Fete I think!

 


#72: Re: hints Author: PatLocation: Doncaster PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:02 am


crapaud wrote:
In Exile there are many hints about Joey being pregnant with the triplets in the hardback edition. I remember that Robin had been told by Jack/Jem that Joey wasn't to be worried and I got the impression that Robin knew that it was a pregnancy. That's why Robin wouldn't tell Joey her fears about Gertrud being a spy. Robin must only have been aged 16 then, not sure, but seems early for the time. Also Robin tells Polly Heriot that Joey is to be kept quiet, and Polly whistles and says 'oh it's like that is it', Polly could not have been that old then too.
Well I think even the most naive person would have guessed that something might be happening, as Jowas carrying trips, and this must have been within a month or two of their birth. Poor Jo must have been huge by then!!!!

 




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