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#1: Books: Two Sams at the Chalet School Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:43 pm
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Sam Davies is fourteen and Welsh, Sammy van der Byl is fifteen and American -> both arrive for the new term in this book and quickly become best friends, despite the difference in age and forms. Nina Rutherford is involved in a car crash and has to undergo an operation, this upsets Sam who is a huge fan of hers. Len Maynard is headgirl. Phillippa Maynard is very ill with mastoid and polio, and is very attracted to Sam, who becomes a great comforter to her. Sammy assumes she is old enough to go down a dangerous ski run, but has an accident and endures the wrath of the form when she brings closer supervision down on their heads. It is the pantomine which eventually saves the day as all the infighting and feuds stops when they have to pull together to think of a way to save it, after a fire in the costumes store. The book ends with the two Sams discovering that they have been distantly related all along.

So, did you like this book? Or is it one coincidental relationship too many? What do you think of the individual characters of Sam and Sammy - Sammy has always been a favourite of mine in her slow drawly southern-lady way. But it is Samaris who remains the more prominent in the books that follow. What about Phil and her liking of Sam?

Go forth and discuss anything and everything to do with this book, number 56 in the HB series. Very Happy

#2: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:31 pm
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I like both Sam and Sammy. I think they deserved a better book. There's chapter after chapter with nothing happening except the usual beginning of term routine which could have been cut and pasted from any other Swiss book.

Phil seems very fickle Confused

Isn't it only a couple of books ago that she was very fond of Adrienne?

I think Sammy was unfairly treated over the ski-ing accident. Two prefects told her she could take that run, how was she to know differently? I'd like to see a drabble in which after her telling off by Miss A., Sammy refuses to do anything a prefect tells her without checking with a mistress first.

And there are EBDisms surrounding the accident. One moment we're told Sammy won't be doing any more skiing for a while, then she's skiing to the San to visit Nina, then later she's glad her arm is out of its cage - I think in the tree climbing incident.

The long lost relatives thing was unnecessary, and as confusing as EBD's long lost relatives plots usually are. All the hints seemed to suggest that the relationship was on Samaris' mother's side, then it turns out to be on her father's, if I've remembered it all correctly.

It was nice to have that little mention of the Davies' being neighbours of the Mensches.

So overall, I think EBD is as good at character as she ever was, but this book falls down on plot - as do so many of the Swiss books, New Mistress and Challenge being notable exceptions.

#3: Author: Liss, Location: Richmond

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:35 pm
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The one thing that's always struck me about this book is the absolute absurdity of guessing there might be a relationship between the two girls simply because their names begin with "Sam". That's a new low for EBD!

#4: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:06 pm
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I thought that the 2 Sams ending up being related was very silly and totally unnecessary, and I also thought it was daft that people kept saying they should be connected because their first names both began with Sam Rolling Eyes

. I also found the comment about the car accident, something to the effect of it not being sad that the young man had died because he had no family to live for, a bit much. And I thought that the ski-ing accident was a shame - why does EBD always seem determined to show Con as someone irresponsible?

I do like both Sams, though. Samantha in particular makes a refreshing change (by the standards of the Swiss books) as she says straight out that she wants to be a housewife and has no interest in having a career - quite "shocking" in some ways but at least she's different.

And I particularly liked the references to Joey visiting the organisations in Innsbruck (I forget the exact details) to which the School donated goods/money. It was good to see that being mentioned again: it was mentioned briefly in Problem but usually got forgotten about.

#5: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:23 pm
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Alison H wrote:

I also found the comment about the car accident, something to the effect of it not being sad that the young man had died because he had no family to live for, a bit much.

Oh yes, I'd forgotten that. His mother had just died and he was grieving for her, so it was better for him to die and be with her. Even with EBD's strong belief in the afterlife, I can't believe anyone could really think it was better for a young man to die rather than have to live without his mother. Didn't he have friends? Mightn't he have got married and had children? I suppose Jo might have been saying it just to stop Nina brooding, but to me it sounds as if she's advocating an unhealthy attitude to bereavement.

And just recalling that when we first meet Nina in Genius and she's in deep mourning for her father, that is regarded as unhealthy.

#6: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:12 pm
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Had they all been discussing Nina just before the accident? I seem to remember that as a coincidence too far. The relationship thing was dull and predictable again. Phil's polio straight after the mastoid was a bit odd, almost as though EBD was piling on the agony. The catchy title of Two Sams was the best thing about this book.

#7: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:49 am
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EBD frequently has plotlines where people disobey or act badly, and consequently have bad things happen to them - the reformation by illness or accident theme. I see the skiing accident as a reversal of that. Sam has something bad happen to her (when not trying to save someone else), therefore it must be her fault.

The sensible thing would be to state the rules regarding skiing and sledding before the first snow day - tell the new girls where they can ski, where they have to have tests for, what the routine is for sudden bad weather, etc. They do that for swimming, with tests for the new girls and boundaries, and don't just let them loose in the water.

As it is, Sam has no idea that she has to test for the run, and had permission from a prefect, and gets a broken collarbone, a dressing down from Miss Annersley and ostracision from her peers. The prefects assume that she's already had the test, and are threatened with losing their prefectships in punishment.

There's also the jealousy over taking the girls to see Nina, where their classmates act all snotty because they wanted to go instead.

If the series had continued further, I think these characters, along with Copper, would have aged well as future seniors. They're all nice, normal girls without any serious hangups or annoying personality traits.

#8: Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:52 pm
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I really liked the two Sams from this book. Both are lovely normal characters and both are prepared to stand on their own against the form when the form act like idiots. Samaris when her form bag her for enjoying lessons and Samantha when Joey has taken the two of them to see Nina and some of them are jealous of it. Both refuse to bow to either pressures.

I did like hearing about the old girls of the school such as Sophie and Berta Hamel and about the Mensches though for awhile I thought it was Gottfried and Gisela not the senior Mensches.

The only reason I was disappointed about the whole relating to each other bit was because that was used as an explaination for being friends. It was alright for Jack and Len; Betsy and Mary Lou; Mary Lou and Clem; Joey and Robin; and all the others (the quintette are all different ages) but these to have to be related because otherwise its impossible for two girls of different ages to become friends unless they are.
Otherwise I didn't mind the book too much, but it wasn't one of the strongest

#9: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:26 am
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And there isn't a huge difference in Sam and Sammy's ages. They might easily have been in the same form, if Samaris had been advanced for her age and Samantha behind her age group.

The triplets always had to make friends among girls older than themselves, since they were always by far the youngest in their form.

#10: Author: Charity,

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:55 pm
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I've just read this for the first time, and found it horribly dull. I was surprised that everyone comments on the name Samantha. Was it really so unusual back then? I also wondered what happened about Nina's essay contest. It was discussed constantly, yet never seems to be awarded. Unless I missed it, which is quite possible as I skimmed a lot of it.

#11: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:41 pm
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Charity wrote:

I've just read this for the first time, and found it horribly dull. I was surprised that everyone comments on the name Samantha. Was it really so unusual back then?

I find a lot of the comments about names surprising, but I suppose some names were uncommon in different times. There are some names - generally Biblical/saints' names and classical names, and maybe royal names - which aren't unusual in any era, but I suppose with other names that's not the case.

I was surprised when I read The School by the River and a lot of the characters remarked that they'd never met anyone called Jennifer before, because I know lots of Jennifers of all different ages. And I was surprised when I read EJO's Swiss books and the characters regarded Karen (OK, I know it was originally a Scandinavian/Dutch form of Katherine, but I still think of it as being a very popular English name too) as a "foreign" name.

Some names obviously become popular because of books/famous people - I think someone pointed out on here that the name Samantha became very popular when Bewitched was first on TV, rather like Kylie and Charlene both becoming popular names in the late '80s/early '90s! - but I'd love to know how it happens with other names Very Happy

#12: Author: LizzieC, Location: Canterbury, UK

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:47 pm
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Liss wrote:

The one thing that's always struck me about this book is the absolute absurdity of guessing there might be a relationship between the two girls simply because their names begin with "Sam". That's a new low for EBD!

Yes! Even my husband, who only skims the books when I leave them lying around somewhere and he's bored commented on the bizarre turning that story took. I think it every time I read it: "How can they think there's a connection? The names are only a little similar and the backgrounds are completely different!" Mad

It's my main problem with this book, though I'm not really convinced Joey was wise in taking new girls to see Nina before anyone else could - I could understand why the others reacted that way. I even seem to recall that some of the prefects felt that way and given they were at school with Nina I felt they had a point really. I felt that the Sams were only taken to see Nina so EBD could tie the Nina plot to the Sams plot.

I felt sorry for Con - as someone else mentioned, she is always doomed to be daydreamy and irresponsible in the same way Margot will never learn to understand people and her temper will usually cause a problem at least once a term.

I did like the Sams as characters and I echo other comments - I wish we could have seen more of them in later books.

#13: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:48 pm
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It's probably just EBD Didn't she use a book of names by Charlotte M Yonge as her bible? I f so then it would be a bit out of date by the 1960s.

#14: Author: Chair, Location: Rochester, Kent

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:08 pm
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Charity wrote:

I've just read this for the first time, and found it horribly dull. I was surprised that everyone comments on the name Samantha. Was it really so unusual back then? I also wondered what happened about Nina's essay contest. It was discussed constantly, yet never seems to be awarded. Unless I missed it, which is quite possible as I skimmed a lot of it.

I have read this book countless times, and I have never noticed that they didn't award the prize! I can't believe I didn't notice it! Rolling Eyes

#15: Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:11 pm
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The contest was announced before her accident, wasn't it - maybe it was shelved while she was in hospital.

#16: Author: Charity,

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:08 pm
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LizB wrote:

The contest was announced before her accident, wasn't it - maybe it was shelved while she was in hospital.

I thought that, so I looked out for it in Althea and Prefects, but it's not mentioned (in pb at least).

#17: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:40 am
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I liked this book (though more when I read it as a kid). Though the whole relation thing grated a bit.

I think the reason everyone is surprised at the two Sam's friendship is not so much because they're different ages but because they're not particularly alike, in different forms (unlike the trips and their friends), didn't really know each other before school (like Clem and Mary-Lou). Also with most of the older/younger girl friendships the older girl (usually) takes on the job of helping the younger girl out but that doesn't really seem to happen with Samantha - she doesn't have any kind of mothering complex. Nor does it happen vice-versa.

The strength of this book IMO is the characterisation of both girls which is good, especially for that later period. Although they unfortunately turn out to be related which spoils it all, I like the way both girls are attractive personalities but different from the usual CS girl. Somehow they also seem more modern.

#18: Author: Miranda, Location: Perth, Western Australia

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:52 pm
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Quote:

Some names obviously become popular because of books/famous people - I think someone pointed out on here that the name Samantha became very popular when Bewitched was first on TV, rather like Kylie and Charlene both becoming popular names in the late '80s/early '90s! - but I'd love to know how it happens with other names.

Here is a link to the Baby Name Wizard - type in the name you're after and it graphs the popularity across the decades. Hours and hours of amusement Smile

#19: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:55 pm
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Miranda wrote:

Quote:

Here is a link to the Baby Name Wizard - type in the name you're after and it graphs the popularity across the decades. Hours and hours of amusement Smile

With the caveat that this is for US names only - they use the social security information. Really cool though - you can give it the start of a name as well.

#20: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:56 pm
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Looks like EBD was on the ball with both Samntha and Jennifer.

#21: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:27 pm
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And also it's interesting which EBD names are at the height of their popularity in the 1930s and 1940s - Constance, Margot but not Helena, for instance.... Sybil is big in the 1920s and Josephine hits a massive peak in the 1910s (which is pretty much spot on for Joey)...

#22: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:02 pm
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Miranda wrote:

Here is a link to the Baby Name Wizard - type in the name you're after and it graphs the popularity across the decades. Hours and hours of amusement Smile

That will provide hours of amusement! Might write it into my lessons when we research the meaning of names - the kids can find out how popular their names are!

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