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#1: Families: The Maynards Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:49 pm
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Apologies for being a couple of days late with this.

The Maynards are the central family of the series and consist of two parents, eleven natural children and five adopted, plus some stray children who have Joey and/or Jack as their official guardian at some point. A full list of family members and of wards, plus biographical details, can be found here.

So do you have any opinions on how the Maynards work as a family? Do Joey and Jack keep a different parenting style from, say, the Russells or the Bettanys? Is it realistic that Joey had so many sets of twins and triplets, or that they should end up with so many adoptees? How do you think Joey juggles having a successful career with being a successful mother - is she a successful mother? What about the 'good' and 'bad' siblings - do you think the Maynard children were forced into stereotypes?

And anything else at all you would like to say about the Maynards as a family, please join in and discuss below Very Happy

#2: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:40 pm
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Joey was actually pregnant seven times- rather more than the norm nowadays, and possibly more than normal for the 1939 - 1953 period - but likely to be the norm for EBD's own frame of reference which was growing up at the beginning of the century. The numbet of multiple births (three) is unusual but there were twins on both sides of the family so not totally unrealistic. The gaps between them were not regular, which would suggest more 'natural'. Given Joey in particular's caring nature, it's not surprising that they pick up a few extras, some of whom are wished upon them by people we've never heard of before! (Erica)

Unfortunately the characters are well established from a very early age - I think Joey was already labelling the Triplets only days after they had been born - rather early to judge - and poor Michael must have thought his name was Mikethewickedone - the number of times the words were added to his name when he was really doing no more or less than any other young boy of his age.

Jack and Joey's parenting style does seem somewhat freer than the Russells - probably because Jem Russell is that much older - but there are still a number of rather uncomfortable parts to it. Firstly the insistence that Joey must be protectedat all costs - to the detriment of the children - seen in its worst phase when Len tries to comfort Charles when he is ill with an acute appendicitis rather than disturb her parents.The child could have died. But also seen in the way the Triplets are casually removed from the School to keep house when their mother was ill.

Also the episode when Joey essentially shames the Triplets into accepting Melanie along for their holidays - not nice.

I don't like the way Len and Steve get everything heaped on to them as the eldest - yes, as the eldest myself I know this sometimes happens - but Len, Con and Margot were the same age.

Finally, was Joey good at juggling home and career - well yes she was, but she had help - if I had someone to do all the cooking, cleaning and most of the childcare and a partner that brought in the main wage then I could spend all my time writing - oh, but hang on, I do that anyway! Writers find time to write, regardless, so even had she not had any help, she'd have written. Laughing

#3: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:17 pm
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I wish we saw more of them all together - I love the scene in Future when they're all in the car and the boys are squabbling over where to sit and people are moaning that they feel sick and want to stop!

Joey and Jack seem much more relaxed as parents than Madge and Jem, but maybe that's a generational thing: Jem in particular seems to have rather Victorian views, but that's understandable in someone born when Queen Victoria was actually still alive! I feel that an awful lot gets put on Steve and especially Len, though. Also, usually because of his wish to protect Joey, Jack is sometimes very harsh - notably with Mike at the beginning of Joey & Co and Margot in Theodora. And I also find the way they label their children from an early age worrying - to some extent that happens in a lot of families, but they overdo it.

The number of multiple births is unusual but there are similar real life examples, and GO authors seem very keen on multiple births generally. I find the fact that they "acquire" so many other children unrealistic, though. They just collect three teenagers without a second thought, and then collect various other children as well.

&, yes, Joey copes well enough with a career and a big family, but so would most people if they had 2 full time members of domestic staff in residence! Oh to have someone to do all the housework that awaits me in the morning ... Laughing

#4: Author: Catherine, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:32 pm
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Joey strikes me as someone who above all else, liked to be surrounded by other people and perhaps that is why her family becomes so big. She 's also very generous - recognises how fortunate she is and wants to help others.

I think, as Lesley said, the triplets were quite clearly labelled from an early age, each one of them always referred to as having one of her characteristics and never really being given the chance to develop other personality traits. Nor are they, so far as I can remember, ever described as being like Jack.

The children loved and respected their parents and mostly, always felt they could talk to them about anything which is more than a lot of people could say, I imagine!

I do wish though that Joey and Jack hadn't chosen such masculine abbreviations for some of their children!!

#5: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:53 pm
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Catherine said:

Quote:

Nor are they, so far as I can remember, ever described as being like Jack.

Although Margot, I think, is like Jack - fair colouring, temper, studies medicine. She also presumably gets her brains and sports ability from Jack, since Jo wasn't ever shown as either exceptionally intelligent or exceptionally good at sport.

We see Jo from time to time talking to the girls about serious matters. I wonder if Jack does the same for the boys?

And Lesley said:

Quote:

poor Michael must have thought his name was Mikethewickedone - the number of times the words were added to his name when he was really doing no more or less than any other young boy of his age.

Acting without thinking and getting into trouble in consequence were faults of Joey's well into her teens, and apart from the odd lecture from Madge she was pretty much allowed to grow out of it in her own time. Whereas in Mike it was treated as a major character flaw almost from toddlerhood.

#6: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:08 pm
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Lesley wrote:

Joey was actually pregnant seven times- rather more than the norm nowadays, and possibly more than normal for the 1939 - 1953 period - but likely to be the norm for EBD's own frame of reference which was growing up at the beginning of the century.

But don't forget Joey and Jack were Catholics, and large families were still failry normal for Catholics in the forties and fifties. I certainly knew more than a few such families at my church and at school, both Catholic.

And there are some women who just like being pregnant - and having young children around them.

#7: Author: linda, Location: Leeds

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:51 pm
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MaryR wrote:

Lesley wrote:

My husband is the eldest of seven - all singletons, born in the 1950s & 60s. As Mary says that was not unusual in Catholic families. (One of his friends has 14 siblings). He also has another 'sister' who came to live with them as a teenager when her mother died and her father was unable to cope. She stayed with them until she married and is always considered to be one of the family. Several other teenagers stayed with the family for longer or shorter periods whilst my husband was growing up.

We always said that my mother in law collected people like some women collect thimbles! Perhaps she was somewhat like Joey.

#8: Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:48 am
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I'm one of 13 (one died as an toddler) and we had 3 sets of twins. The oldest in mid forties and the youngest mid twenties. Ask the oldest few and they're lives were tragic cos they were in charge a lot and so was my older sister who was only a year older than me. I always remember thinking it was unfair cos she got to do so much. I wonder if Margot and Con ever resented the fact Len was treated very much like their elder sister and not the same age which she was.

In regards to Joey having Rosli and Anna, part of me didn't think much of it when I first read the books as my mother coped on her own with a husband who worked shift work and Joey didn't seem to manage. However, Joey does work full time and writes two books a year and yes to a degree she can choose her hours but it would still be a full time job or nearly so. If she worked outside the home and not from the home would people be so condemming of it, if say she was a teacher? She would need someone to mind the children and I know plenty of people who get someone in to clean when they work full time. As to having two people I think its sensible to have one able to focus on the children alone and another to focus on the housework and to allow the two to interchange as needed. Also having Rosli and Anna does allow Joey to spend a lot more time with her children in one on one situations which I can count how many time I had that growing up on one hand until I had left school.

#9: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:31 am
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In general, the Maynard kids are loved and cared for - their parents love them, they are fed adn clothed and educated, and Joey and Jack think about their parenting choices, so it's not really a dysfunctional family. That said, there are some things about their family dynamics that irk me

1) Joey is seen as the one most needing protecting and care, to the detriment of the children's well being if necessary. Jack's first response is her well being, most notably at the beginning of Joey and Co, where he is furious to the point of not being able to control his temper at what was careless but normal behaviour on the part of his eight year old son, who is crying himself to sleep and about to be exiled for the summer for his crimes.

2) The piling of responsibility on Len adn Steve - yes, it's normal in a big family for the eldest to have more responsibiltiy, but Margot and Con get out of a lot of it, at the same age as Len, and Charles is only a year younger than Steve. And they get that responsiblitiy very young.

3) The labelling - Joey seems to have gone Responsible, Dreamy, Bad, Responsible, Dreamy, Bad, with her first six kids. Mike's case is particularly bad as I don;t see him as anything mroe than a very energetic, strong willed, active young boy - he certainly doesn't seem to have Margot's jealous/nasty streak. Margot's universal status as the bad triplet is nearly as bad - she is generally acknowledged by her peers and other students as lazy and bad by the time she's about seven.

4) The fact that Joey adn Jack's parenting is universally regarded as above reproach. Of teh six eldest kids, teh two who are less compliant are seen as intrinsically bad, with flawed characters, because *of course* they got perfect parenting. I suspect that in family counselling the question of why J&J have particular trouble with the more spirited kids would come up.

5) I can see having household help with a large family when teh mother works, even writing at home. However, Joey basks in the glory and status of her large family without acknowledging the factors that let her do it - they have money, they can afford boarding school, so the kids older than seven are only home for vacations, they have free education for the girls, they have Anna, Rosli and a mother's help, who do the majority of the housework and a good chunk of the childcare, and the older kids take a lot of the responsibility on themselves. Her oft repeated statement of how bigger families are easier seems to be mainly true for her.

6) Joey's insistence on adopting everything in sight is a bit hard on the biological kids - the trips reluctance to have Melanie along and Joey's guilt trip being a prim e example. Joey could easily have said that they'd take Melanie a few weeks into the vacation, giving the kids some alone time with their parents, with no schoolmates along.

#10: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:30 am
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I love Joey's working life and the fact that she can do it at home, albeit with help from Anna and Rosli. I think she does what she does (ie author and mother) very successfully, although it does rankle with me that she sends all the girls to boarding school next door (I really, really think they could have been day girls) and that she sends Mike to Montreux because she thinks he's too young to go to school in England yet (he's away 5 days of the week as it is, I can't see that he feels much closer to home).

I always think of Anna and Joey being great friends as well, rather than mistress and maid/cook. They've known each other since both were teenagers and Anna has always been around for Joey to talk to, even when Madge was living in a different country. I can see them sitting down for elevenses together (when Joey has no visitors) having a laugh. And I think they both viewed the Maynard children as something they had produced in partnership (Joey biologically, Anna doing at least 60% of the day to day care) and were both proud of for that reason.

#11: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:24 am
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I often wonder how Joey managed with only Rosli and Anna for help, when you think how a generation earlier it would have required a young army of servants to look after a family that might have been far smaller, although
the middle classes always did make do with fewer.

Re multiple births - I always thought that was unrealistic until I discovered that my maternal great-grandfather was one of two sets of twins in his family! There's something wrong with that sentence, but I'm sure you all know what I mean. I was a bit shattered and my first thought was not of the Chalet School, but of Anne of Green Gables, where Anne's first foster-family has three sets of twins....

#12: Author: Joan the Dwarf, Location: Er, where am I?

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:17 am
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On the whole I think the Maynards works better than a lot of GO families, but there are several things that really rankle.

First, the labelling. That's bad enough, but there's also the differential treatment. If you treat one girl as good and mothers-help, always sitting at Mamma's right hand (Len) then naturally she's going to play up to it, with added doses of smugness. And if you never treat her other sisters like that, if you're always wary of giving them any responsibility, actually tell them that they can't be trusted, then when are they ever going to have either the opportunity or the inclination to show you otherwise?

Definitely agree with them having problems with the "spirited" members of the family. Margot and Mike are not abnormal, they're just not wet and self-effacing. They got pretty rotten parenting and never really seemed to be loved for who they actually were.

Don't get me started on the bedtime "confessions". That's just appalling. OK if it's something they want to get off their chest, but dragging up things that have already been dealt with by another parent or adult is pretty horrific. By the time it's bedtime, something done during the day is in another world for a child of 3 or 4, and dragging it up again had no impact whatsoever on future behaviour, it's just re-heating old wrongs and making them upset. Who would look forward to bedtime when they know that the emotional screws will be turned on them?

And one last thing - Joey. It's always presented as wonderful that she can be wise and motherly one second and act like the triplet's friend the next. If she was my mother I would simply see her as completely volatile and not to be trusted.

In all, I don't think the family dynamics are that brilliant, but for the time they probably were better than is usually depicted.

#13: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:03 am
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Joan the Dwarf wrote:

And one last thing - Joey. It's always presented as wonderful that she can be wise and motherly one second and act like the triplet's friend the next. If she was my mother I would simply see her as completely volatile and not to be trusted.

That's a good point - I think it could get erratic discpline wise, when one moment your mother is encouraging you to slide around the house on old carpets shrieking, and the next minute laying down the law over some infraction of the rules.

It's fairly clear over the books that the 'instant, unquestioning obedience' part of their childrearing philosophy is primarily Jack's idea. He's by far the stricter discipinarian, while Joey can be coaxed or convinced to let things go.

Joey working on her books whilst Anna, Rosli and the mother's help is not too different than a modern family where both parents work out side the home, and they have a Nanny and maid. However, in my experience if a couple wants to have a large family (more than about three kids), someone is a generally a housespouse while the kids are little, for economic reasons if nothing else. Having sixteeen kids (eleven children and five wards) while both parents work outside the home is something else altogether.

#14: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:49 am
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jennifer wrote:

Possibly, but not necessarily - it may well have been made clear that when Mamma was playing (and why does she have to be so futile and insist on being called "Mamma", just because it's different?), anything went, but when Mamma said "last five minutes", she meant last five minutes, and when that was over, you helped clear up and then went on to the next thing, whether that was a meal, or your bath and bed, or what.

The thing is, we can only see what EBD chooses to tell us, and that may or may not have been what we would have liked to have seen!

#15: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:01 pm
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I think that the Maynards are fairly disfunctional as a family. Jack, for example, is rarely at home, and when he is, he is rarely seen acting as a father, unless he is threatening Mike, or telling one of the children off, but we rarely, if ever, see him playing with the children, or acting as if he were even related to them. I know he took the girls to the salt mines in Hall, and there was the trip to the Valais in 'Richenda', but apart from that, only the journey in 'Future'.

I truly dislike the way the children are labelled, responsible, dreamy, naughty, etc. and the way Jo actually shoves off most of her responsibilities onto other people, not just Anna and Rosli, but Len and Stephen.

As a marriage, it might work in EBD's world, but in the real world, no.

Jack's shielding Jo from anxiety, etc. actually prevents her growing up into full maturity as an adult, so she still remains a very young girl in many ways, which is perhaps one reason why she clings onto the school and interferes so much. It's as if she has a foot in both worlds, but belongs firmly in neither.

And it has to be said, how do the girls grow up, if their mother is never allowed to take full emotional responsibility for herself?

The Maynard family works only because Jo has so much help, from Anna and Rosli, and from loading the older ones with childcare and household tasks as their mother takes herself off to write or to visit someone.

And in real life, would schoolgirls really want such constant visiting from their mother? Or would they be hideously embarrassed by it?

As for location, the family works only if the children are shielded in a fairly remote location and hardly ever come into contact with modern life as it is lived.

#16: Author: Karry, Location: Stoke on Trent

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:31 pm
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Could EDB's disfunctional childhood and poor relationship with a strangefather be the reason she was unable to draw a picture of a responsible loving father?

#17: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:09 pm
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Jennie wrote:

And in real life, would schoolgirls really want such constant visiting from their mother? Or would they be hideously embarrassed by it?

I suppose that when they were younger they might've been quite proud of the fact that their mother was so involved with the school, and by the time they'd got to the VIth form they were probably resigned to it. However, during the period when they and their friends are the dominant characters in the books (from Problem to Ruey), they're just at the age at which - in my experience, anyway Laughing

- even the best of parents tend to be regarded as the most incredibly embarrassing people ever Laughing

!

I know that it avoided a telling off from Matey, but personally I'd've wanted to sink through the nearest hole in the ground if my mum'd turned up at school waving a hanky that I'd forgotten, like Joey did with Margot in whichever book it was Rolling Eyes

#18: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:30 am
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Karry wrote:

Could EDB's disfunctional childhood and poor relationship with a strangefather be the reason she was unable to draw a picture of a responsible loving father?

I suspect EBD's upbringing certainly has some influence on her portrayal of families....

I wonder if the large and loving families she describes represent some kind of ideal for her? Think of the Maynards - the lady author with a loving husband ("the Great Doctor") who provides for her every need, and many adoring children; who is the perfect wife and mother, beloved by the girls and staff of the school next door, and still has time to be a best selling author for girls. No financial worries, plenty of support when she needs it, adoring staff to help run the house and look after the children, etc.

It all seems to be wish fulfillment on EBD's part (what a contrast to her own life - single, no children, supporting her mother, having to work full time to earn enough to live on, when she really wants to write, the cares of the world on her shoulders and no one to share them with...), but the point is she has no real idea how such a family would work on a practical level, because she has no actual experience of being part of such a family, just like she has no first hand experience of a successful married relationship, or of motherhood....

So, I'm guessing her intention was that we see the Maynards as the great family - happy, loving, caring, functional in every way - but with a few angsty / strifey moments for plot / interest reasons. But actually they come over as just slightly "off" sometimes, by our modern standards.

#19: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:59 am
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I agree with the wish fulfilment idea. I also question the help Joey gets in the house, especially Freudesheim which is enormous. Obviously she chooses the Tyroleans who are devoted, hard working, presumably cheap, eschew modern devices, require little if any free time, beam a lot and are amazingly skilled. Where does Anna learn her advanced baking skills? How does she shop, cook, wash up, clean, wash, iron, child-mind and generally care for two adults and 15+ children in holiday times? But she is not considered able or responsible enough to care for the house and nursery folk when Jo goes to England in Triplets. Then, three teenage girls are called in to take charge. Rosli's job seems to be nurse only. Compare Janie's household in Guernsey. She has Nanny and Cook at least which indicates that there are other staff, such as house maids. My point is that Jo should have more help as they use no modern devices like vacuum cleaners and no convenience or ready made food ie Anna makes rolls daily.

#20: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:26 am
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I think that some of the things EBD describes are wish fulfilment. There's no-one quite like her for having an idea and overworking it. In 'Janie Steps In' Janie also does the bedtime confession bit, and I thought then that there was nothing quite like sending your children to bed with a load of guilt, and when Jo also does it, it's so bad as to be horrifying.

Of course, EBD saw this as an idealised family in an idealised sitation, so the sheer pure toil that Anna andRosli had to face every day was glossed over with the announcements that Anna worshipped her young mistress, and would spare nothing in her efforts to get everything the way Jo wanted them.

As for the children, Jo is presented as a caring mother who knows instinctively when there is something wrong with her children, so poor Len spends several hours giving Charles the entirely wrong treatment, whilst the ever-motherly Jo sleeps peacefully until awoken by that same daughter.

And we do see so many of EBD's fixations in her portrayal of life on the Platz, not just with the Maynards. For example, Len gives Charles hot milk, just what isn't needed before a general anaesthetic, and tries to soothe him to sleep.

#21: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:36 am
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Jennie wrote:

There's no-one quite like [EBD] for having an idea and overworking it. In 'Janie Steps In' Janie also does the bedtime confession bit, and I thought then that there was nothing quite like sending your children to bed with a load of guilt, and when Jo also does it, it's so bad as to be horrifying.

You know, I never thought about it quite like that.

I can't imagine anything worse (personally) than being expected to do the whole bed time confession thing, but I always read EBD's version of it as more of a get-things-off-your-chest-and-then-feel-better / go-to-bed-with-a-clean-conscience concept, rather than a load-the-guilt-on-so-you-can't-sleep thing.

From a Catholic POV (not being one myself), what do folks feel like after Confession to their priest? Calmed / uplifted / at peace with themselves by being forgiven / absolved of their sins? Or loaded on with guilt / shame / misery? Daunted by the penance required of them? I have no idea, but as far as the fictional portrayal of the Maynard is concerned (and as far as bedtime confession relates to "proper" confession), I think I had imagined the former, and that the forgiven child would sleep more easily, not less easily...

#22: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:36 am
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Jennie wrote:

I think that some of the things EBD describes are wish fulfilment. There's no-one quite like her for having an idea and overworking it. In 'Janie Steps In' Janie also does the bedtime confession bit, and I thought then that there was nothing quite like sending your children to bed with a load of guilt, and when Jo also does it, it's so bad as to be horrifying.

I thought the general idea, whether or not it would have worked out in practice, was that the children could share anything that was troubling them - any guilty consciences for instance - and then go to sleep peacefully!

#23: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:00 pm
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Agree with Mrs Redboots about the offloading of your conscience and going to bed peacefully. My mother did the bedtime confession thing a few times (but not *every* night, and as I got older it was me who instigated it, not her) and I never went to bed feeling guilty, just glad I'd made a clean breast of things. I don't know if it's a Catholic thing (Janie isn't RC) or not. As a Catholic, I would say that the feeling after confession is relief and calm, not any of the negative things listed.

Re wish fulfilment, after reading EBD's biography, I was surprised that Jack was a doctor at all. EBD's own lovelife/general life was full of actors and playwrights, not doctors, so why wasn't Jack an actor? In general, I'm really surprised that she didn't bring in a prominent 'acting/plays' type character til as late as Jane.

#24: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:33 pm
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Caroline wrote:

From a Catholic POV (not being one myself), what do folks feel like after Confession to their priest? Calmed / uplifted / at peace with themselves by being forgiven / absolved of their sins? Or loaded on with guilt / shame / misery? Daunted by the penance required of them?

Definitely relieved and calm. It's a lovely sort of "clean" feeling. I am a pretty bad Catholic, but I do like Confession.

#25: Author: Sarah_K, Location: St Albans

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:35 pm
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I agree with the others on the topic of "bedtime confessions". We never called it that but as little kids we also said prayers with my parents that involved saying sorry for anything we'd done wrong during the day. It's a good way to teach little children about religion and hopefully to encourage them to trust their parents.

Mind you I love the Maynard family. It worries me that they label Margot and Mike the "wicked ones" but Jack and Jo quite clearly adore their children and when you get scenes with the lot of them together it's clear that the children love their parents and aren't too bad with each other either Wink

Jack and Jo both seem to be able to play and act the fool with their children as well as being serious when neccessary.

Of course Jack does have a rather enormous problem with his temper (as does Jem) which can't have been easy to be on the receiving end of but I never got the feeling from the books that any of the children were scared of him unless they knew they'd done something wrong.

Mind you I am being rather hypocritical having written a drabble about how badly Joey treated her sons and the focus on the girls is a little strange but then, since I wrote that, I've come round to the idea that mostly that's just because it's what we see. If they really treated the boys badly then they wouldn't accept the additions (like the Richardsons) so easily.

#26: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:25 pm
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Róisín wrote:

I don't know if it's a Catholic thing (Janie isn't RC) or not. As a Catholic, I would say that the feeling after confession is relief and calm, not any of the negative things listed .

Defiinitely a Catholic thing and definitely relief and calm, but probably also due to the release of having screwed one's nerve up the sticking point to actually get inside the box to confess. And no, folks, I didn't confess any *interesting* things. Twisted Evil

Not often, anyway! Laughing

They do say that Catholics have confession and everyone else uses the psychiatrist's chair. mrgreen

#27: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:53 pm
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What I found so horrifying was that this was happening when the triplets were three. For a small child, the morning is as far distant as a decade is for adults, and it jsut seems wrong to me that children should think that their trivial little doings are wrong, and feel bad about them all day, enought to 'confess' them.

#28: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:33 pm
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Remember that in confession one is speaking to an anonymous priest who cannot be seen and the penace simply means prayers. In Jo's case the confessions are face to face, with the threat of punishment, mouth being soaped out for name calling etc. Perhaps EBD being a fairly recent convert, she had a hazy idea that that was what good Catholic parents did. As if!

#29: Author: Rosalin, Location: Swansea

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:55 pm
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I'd never thought anything of the confessions before finding the CBB! I saw it as a way for the children to get things off their minds before going to sleep. I'll be look out for references when I'm re-reading now. I didn't even notice it in Janie Steps In Embarassed

Reading the books as a child I wanted to be one of the Maynards, I loved their family dynamic. Now they feel rather more disfunctional, but a lot better than some EBD families. I don't think Joey is a particularly bad mother, if not the paragon that all her friends seem to think her Laughing

but the fact that she appears to think that she's mostly responsible for bringing up the children, when we all know it's Anna and Rosli, annoys me. She works, so she has a nanny. Fine, so do other people. Just say so.

I'd never thought of it before, but I agree with Mel that Anna seems to manage a superhuman amount of work when you look at what she does more or less single-handed. Maybe she slipped into a Harry Potter crossover and borrowed a time turner.

#30: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:27 am
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I don;t think Jack's hands-off approach to child rearing was that odd by the standards of the time - I know modern families where teh father loves the kids, but rarely gets home from work before 8pm adn is often on business travel.

I hadn't thought of the confession part. I think its impact would depend a lot on the approach adn personalities of the people involved, so it could either be a grueling, guilt ridden ordeal or a calming act. Don't forget - the confessions were done, not in an anonymous confessional, but in front of Joey and their two sisters!

Doing it at age three seems excessive, but I don't think EBD had much of a grasp on early childhood development. She has excessively precocious three year olds, but also has ten year olds who still sleep in a cot, and eight year olds who can't bathe themselves. Discipline wise, three year olds are a lot like cats - the punishment has to be immediate and at the scene of the crime, or it won't make sense to them.

#31: Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:51 am
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Jennie wrote:

As for the children, Jo is presented as a caring mother who knows instinctively when there is something wrong with her children, so poor Len spends several hours giving Charles the entirely wrong treatment, whilst the ever-motherly Jo sleeps peacefully until awoken by that same daughter.

And we do see so many of EBD's fixations in her portrayal of life on the Platz, not just with the Maynards. For example, Len gives Charles hot milk, just what isn't needed before a general anaesthetic, and tries to soothe him to sleep.

To give Len her due, no one would automatically think when a child says their tummy hurts that, 'hey, you have apendicitis.' My first thought would be have you eaten too much or something that has upset you and try to fix that. Hot milk is also given out willy nilly at school for any upsets so Len would do what happens at school. Its only when it continues that Len realises its something more and then wakes her parents.

It seems to be the oldest child thing because my oldest brother used to look after my youngest brother at night so Mum could get some sleep, often without Mum knowing about it. I only found out cos an old school friend of my brothers told me years later when we worked together

#32: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:00 pm
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jennifer wrote:

Doing it at age three seems excessive, but I don't think EBD had much of a grasp on early childhood development. She has excessively precocious three year olds, but also has ten year olds who still sleep in a cot, and eight year olds who can't bathe themselves.

To be fair, I have a feeling that she was using "cot" in the American sense of camp bed, or folding bed.... and it might have been hard for an 8-year-old to carry enough water for a bath - in the original Chalet, I don't think there was running water upstairs, and they used to have to fetch their own if they wanted a bath.

And I've known at least one 8-year-old who wasn't very good at having a bath alone - I think she'd always "been bathed" along with her siblings, conveyor-belt style, and never had to learn.

But I agree, by and large EBD doesn't have much sense of young child development.

#33: Author: claire, Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:48 pm
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isn't Robin lifted out of the cot in Jo of (aged about 6)? That's what makes me think it was a baby's cot

#34: Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:56 pm
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On HMS Victory you can see Nelson's cot. It's like a hammock but box-shaped and rigid, it hangs. (And it's tiny!) Was Robin sleeping in something like that? Also, was it not while they were on holiday? In which case there might have been a shortage of beds and Robin as the smallest got the little one.

#35: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:51 am
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Some of the things EBD writes make me feel very strongly that she rarely saw any young children, and certainly never looked after one. The way their speech develops in her books is very poor, and reminds me of someone desperately trying to present early childhood and failing miserably.

I never used baby talk with my children, so they spoke well from the start, though everyone has to accept that there are some sounds tha small child cannot make.

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