Girls: The Bullies and the Bullied
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#1: Girls: The Bullies and the Bullied Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:02 am
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The Chalet school is generally fairly free of bullying, at least compared to my memories of being 12 years old. However, there are a few examples; Eilunedd's campaign to discredit Peggy, Thekla and Joyce, Ruth Wilson's general tendencies to bully younger girls, Diana Skelton and Marian Tovey, Margot and Ted, Jack and Jane.

What do you think about the way EBD described bullying, both from the bully and the victim's perspective? Are the bullies sufficiently rehabilitated, and are the final resolutions of the situation reasonable? Feel free to add other example as you think of them.

#2:  Author: TanLocation: London via Newcastle Australia PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:07 am
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I don't think EBD really came to grips with this issue. I guess I am looking at this from a modern perspective, where the impact of bullying on the victim is quite widely understood.

I don't think that EBD is really able to portray the effect of bullying on the victims. I don't think that the dealing of the situations is quite right either - for example, at times the victim is blamed as much as the bullier (for example, Jane and Jack).

Also, the tendency of soem of the senior girls to be domineering is not always monitored (Ruth Wilson is one person who springs to mind here).

#3:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:53 am
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EBD was writing at a time when the line between what people would be expected to put up with as teasing/scrapping and what would be regarded as bullying was very different to what it was now. For example, Eustacia is actually told by one of the mistresses that if she told tales at a boys' school she'd be thrashed by one of the other boys, which at that time would've been considered acceptable.

There's no "fagging" system (I do hate that expression Rolling Eyes !) at the CS as there was at a lot of boarding schools and which often seemed to facilitate bullying (wasn't there one in Enid Blyton's St Clare's books?), and there's not really a lot of unsupervised time - the school playground/the school locker area, when staff aren't looking, seem to be where you get a lot of bullying at most schools - and really there's surprisingly little bullying at all.

The main bullying stories end up in big showdowns and the bullies either get expelled/leave or else see the error of their ways. I don't think we really see the effect on the victims, though - and the feelings of victims of "lesser" bullying, e.g. Odette Mercier who is regarded as a cry-baby because she misses her sick mother, and Sophie Hamel (was it her?) who was bullied into the film thing by Juliet, are hardly mentioned at all.

I actually think that Jack Lambert, whom we're presumably meant to like as she looked set to take over from Len as heroine, is pretty bad. She really does remind me of some of the girls at school in that she leads a big gang of girls and orders them all about! Although she's not nasty in the way that Margot is towards Ted, she encourages all her gang to turn on anyone she doesn't like.

#4:  Author: CarysLocation: London PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:10 pm
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I haven't read Jane so I can't really comment on the Jack/Jane storyline but for me the way Eustacia is treated is most certainly an example of bullying. When I re-read Eustacia a couple of years ago I was shocked at how badly she was treated.
Margot with her vendetta against Ted is another with an unpleasant nasty streak, I could see Margot as the school bully type in todays school's.
I'm not sure why but I've never really looked on Eilunedd being a bully but I suppose she was thinking about it. I always saw her as being more of a jealous, malicious, type, a bit to cowardly to be an outright bully.

#5:  Author: FatimaLocation: Sunny Qatar PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:42 pm
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I remember hearing that Ruth Wilson had a tendency to bully the younger girls, but can't remember what she did to them. Was it ever really mentioned how she bullied them?

#6:  Author: Liz KLocation: Bedfordshire PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:55 pm
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Fatima wrote:
I remember hearing that Ruth Wilson had a tendency to bully the younger girls, but can't remember what she did to them. Was it ever really mentioned how she bullied them?


No I don't think it was ever mentioned exactly what Ruth did, just that she "had a tendency to bully the younger girls".

#7:  Author: TamzinLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:21 pm
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Liz K wrote:
Fatima wrote:
I remember hearing that Ruth Wilson had a tendency to bully the younger girls, but can't remember what she did to them. Was it ever really mentioned how she bullied them?


No I don't think it was ever mentioned exactly what Ruth did, just that she "had a tendency to bully the younger girls".


I always found this funny as a little girl because there were two girls living next door t me - Kirsty and Ruth Wilson. In my reality Kirsty who was my age was a rather.....shall we say organising sort of girl? Poor little Ruth was 2 years younger, a really sweet-natured, easygoing girl, and we bossed her unmercifully. I remember tying her to a tree in the school playing fields one playtime - part of a pirate game IIRC. We were all three late back to lessons because we couldn't get the knot untied so easily as we'd tied it! Still at least we didn't abandon poor Ruth to her fate!

#8:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:52 pm
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I did wonder why Ruth Wilson was made a Prefect if her bullying tendancies were well known.

But by far the worst has to be Jack's bullying of Jane - when the girl had actually done nothing - it wasn't her fault that the dormitory allocation was changed, nor was it her fault that Miss Ferrars asked her to clean her car. Jack hounded her, caused more than half the class to do the same and even assaulted her. And the Prefects were just as at fault because poor Jane got reprimanded for trying to defend herself.

I think Jack was a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

#9:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:30 pm
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I think that Eustacia's was the worst case of bullying, and Jo was heavily involved in it. The poor girl was blamed for a blizzard starting, and for everything.

#10:  Author: ClareLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:39 pm
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I'm trying to think if anyone does actually get called a bully in the series, and the only person I can think of is Phil Craven when the juniors are playing Impertinent Questions and she asks "who cheats at maths?"

I always felt that EBD put a lot back on the victim, making out it was their fault they endured this treatment.

#11:  Author: LizzieCLocation: Canterbury, UK PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:33 pm
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Clare wrote:
I always felt that EBD put a lot back on the victim, making out it was their fault they endured this treatment.


That thought reminds me of the part in Head Girl when Diera burns Grizel's harmony. By at least one character (Madge) and possibly by others it's almost seen as her fault even though it's at best a complete overreaction and at worst a completely unprovoked act from Diera towards Grizel.

I always feel very sorry for Grizel at that point.

#12:  Author: dorianLocation: Dublin PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:42 pm
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One thing I noticed relatively recently was that overt bullying, explicitly described as such, crops up very rarely in the Chalet School (far more rarely than my own experiences!).

Of course, some of what is not explicitly identified as bullying actually is that (certainly to modern sensiblities), but I do get the impression EBD herself was against bullying - cf when Lavender's class-mates send her to Coventry, and after a few days the prefects step in and make it clear to them that what they are doing is now bullying and unacceptable. And they do take that on board and in some cases at least are unhappy to think that that is what they were doing.

#13:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:14 pm
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And in Challenge something similar happens with Evelyn Ross and her form, and Nancy has Lesley Anderson on the carpet about it. Then later Evelyn suffers from Margot's bad temper.

#14:  Author: Fiona McLocation: Bendigo, Australia PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:27 pm
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LizzieC wrote:
That thought reminds me of the part in Head Girl when Diera burns Grizel's harmony. By at least one character (Madge) and possibly by others it's almost seen as her fault even though it's at best a complete overreaction and at worst a completely unprovoked act from Diera towards Grizel.


However in Deira's defence Grizel did provoke her at their first Prefects meeting. Gertrude said to her that she wished Grizel hadn't spoken to her like that cos once her dander was up she did things she later regreted and Grizel thought that described herself. Even Grizel acknowledged that what she said and how she said it did start the argument however that said I do think Deira over reacted by burning the book. I will give her that she had no idea Grizel's letter was in the book, but her actions would ultimately involve the teachers.

I always felt sorry for Eustasia because it always seemed that not only were the other students on the bulying side but so were the teachers. Con Stewert especially seemed nasty as did Joey the supposed sympathetic one. Barring her from the Library for one thing. In any ordinary girl I could understand what they did but in a girl they all know had just lost their parents and had never been to school before, Joey should have been kinder. I don't think the other girls thought at all and what would have been the harm of just telling them she had recently lost her parents and was new to the school way of life. Most of her form were kind hearted girls.

Phil Cravern was a nasty piece of work tormenting Ruth like she did. There was a maliciousness in that however I don't think EBD wanted to reform her as she was always the opposite to Mary Lou and Co. The paragon bad girl to Mary Lou's paragon good girl.

The whole Jack and Jane thing was disgusting and is one scene that does need to be rewritten. I can't believe Maeve would blame Jane for being beaten up. It only showed me that she wasn't a good Head Girl in that situation. The fact all the gang went along with the bullying of Jack to Jane was just as bad as Jack's bullying of her. Wanda and Barbara had stood up to there form before in defence of Jack when she was being bullied so why aren't they doing the same now? Anyway this scene I think has been discussed and shows a poor resolution any way you look at it, but I do find them being good friends a year or two down the track a tad unrealistic. Jane could forgive but could she trust her again. I know I couldn't to the point of becoming best friends the way EBD made them out to

One thing I always liked about Con was she did take Odette under her wing a bit and look after her. I always thought that was lovely of her.

#15:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:08 am
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Liz K wrote:
Fatima wrote:
I remember hearing that Ruth Wilson had a tendency to bully the younger girls, but can't remember what she did to them. Was it ever really mentioned how she bullied them?


No I don't think it was ever mentioned exactly what Ruth did, just that she "had a tendency to bully the younger girls".


Actually, there are several instances of it, mostly in Barbara and Kenya, with Ruth's treatment of Jo Scott. For instance:

Quote:
Julie shot a quick glance at her. Ruth Wilson was quite a pleasant girl on the whole, but she was apt to be dom-ineering and if she disliked anyone, she tended to ride her hard. The Head Girl hoped that she was not going to take a dislike to Barbara.


Quote:
Julie laughed. She was a dark, very handsome girl, cool and self-contained. She realized that Josette had no intention of being rude and was quite prepared to explain. But Ruth Wilson, the hobbies prefect, had little sympathy or understanding. Unlike Julie, who was the eldest of six, she was an only child. She had a great opinion of the dignity of the prefects and she thought that Josette was being impudent. Before the Head Girl could say anything, she jumped in.

“That’ll do, Josette. You kids are a lot too cheeky. You’re not to speak to any prefect like that, let alone the Head Girl. Do you hear me? Then apologize at once!”

Josette flushed angrily. At fourteen and a half, she objected to being spoken to as if she were a Junior of ten or eleven. Apart from that, Ruth’s overbearing manner was very galling and well calculated to rouse ire in anyone. Before the Middle could utter the angry retort on her tongue end, however, Julie interfered.

“Oh fiddle! Josette wasn’t being rude, Ruth, she was only asking. No need to jump on her as heavily as all that.” She turned to Josette. “It’s this way, Josette, ‘aqua’ is the Latin for water and aquatic sports are water sports. Now do you see?”

Josette cooled down. “Yes, and thanks for explaining. I didn’t mean cheek.”

Sybil had been watching Ruth out of the corner of her eye. She saw that the elder girl was looking none too pleased at Julie’s handling of the situation, so she made haste to change the subject. Ruth had the reputation in the school of holding on to grudges until she had paid them off. Sybil was well aware that she would regard the Head Girl’s rather snubbing remarks to her as Josette’s fault and would not rest until she had settled the score. Where her young sister was concerned, Sybil always felt a heavy responsibility. Years ago, when Sybil herself had been a Junio and Josette a tiny of four, there had been a bad accident for which the former knew herself to be to blame. They had nearly lost Josette at the time and Sybil had been heartbroken over it. Since then, she had kept a watchful eye on her sister as far as she could – frequently, it must be admitted, without getting much gratitude from Josette who sometimes grumbled that Sybs was too grannyish for words!

“Well,” she said, “having got that much into young Josette’s head, what about the end of the term. Six weeks doesn’t give us an awful lot of time to think up something and get it going and you know we’re always expected to be responsible for the summer term show. Hasn’t anyone any ideas to lay before us?”

Seventeen-year-old Sybil was not yet a prefect and only a member since the Easter term of Upper Fifth. All the same, many of Sixth form inclined to treat her as one of themselves. She was older than her age in many ways and, besides, she had a little imperious air and a great deal of natural dignity that seemed to set her more on a level with the prefects than with a good many members of her own form. Julie, therefore, answered her as if she was a prefect.

“We haven’t really come to any decision, Sybil. We ought to have a ‘do’ of some kind, I know, but apart from a garden party and pastoral play, no one seems to have an idea to bless herself with.”

“Oh, I expect Sybil can give us one,” Ruth said, with a slight sneer.

Sybil reddened and Jo flashed an indignant look at the prefect. She said nothing, of course. She knew her place as a very new Middle too well for that. But from that moment she disliked Ruth Wilson with an intensity that was worthy of a much better cause. It showed in her eyes and Ruth, happening to glance at her, saw it and wondered. Nor did she forget it and it was the cause of a good deal of unpleasantness later on. At the time, no one said anything and Sybil herself merely remarked that she had only just begun to think of it and hadn’t any more ideas than anyone else.


Quote:
It was as they were walking along the corridor that the door of Upper IVA flew open and Jo Scott hurtled out. She was in such a hurry that she never attempted to see where she was going. The result was that she plunged head first into Ruth Wilson, sending that young woman staggering against the opposite wall. Jo would have crashed on top of the prefect, but Clem, who was just behind Ruth, grabbed her shoulder and steadied her, while Veronica performed the same kind office for Ruth.

“Oh!” Jo gasped, when she had recovered herself. “I’m frightfully sorry! I hope I haven’t hurt you? I really am awfully sorry!”

Ruth had pulled off her hat which had suffered in the collision and was trying to straighten the brim. “Clumsy young idiot!” she snapped. “Look what you’ve done to my hat! I believe you’ve spoilt it – and it’s new this term.”

“I’m frightfully sorry,” Jo repeated, with an anxious look at the hat. “I honestly didn’t mean it. Can I – can I do anything about your hat?”

“Didn’t mean it? Didn’t bother looking where you were going, you mean!” Ruth retorted furiously. “Well, Matron will have something to say about this, I can tell you! No, Julie!” for that young woman had taken the maltreated hat from her and was seeing what she could do with it. “It’s broken, just there by the crown. You can’t do anything with it. It’s ruined and I’ll have to send home for the money to buy a new one. In the meantime, will someone kindly tell me what I’m to wear just now?”

“I believe I could fix this for you,” Julie said, looking up from the hat. “A stitch or two would put it more or less right so that you could wear it. Really, Jo,” she added severely to that penitent sinner, “a girl of your age might show a little more sense. Why on earth didn’t you look before you burst out like that? And what were you doing in your form room at this hour, in any case?” she added.

Jo went red. “Matron sent me to pick up my books. They’d slid off the desk and were all in a heap on the floor.”

“Well, another time please be more careful!” Julie said sharply. “And for goodness sake look where you’re going in the future. You’d better be off now. Your walk will be waiting for you.”

Thankful to get away, Jo turned and scuttled off as hard as she could go and Julie proceeded to do her best to smooth Ruth’s ruffled feelings. “It’s not really so bad, Ruthie. I can easily put a stitch or two in and I believe it’ll be practically all right again then. You go on, everyone, and Ruth and I will follow as fast we can, so don’t run a marathon. We’re walking along to the San, aren’t we? Right! We’ll be with you in a few minutes. Come back to the prefect’s room, Ruth. My sewing things are up there in the cupboard.” She led the way, Ruth following in a direful mood. She had got up in a bad temper that morning and Jo’s escapade had not made matters any better.

#16:  Author: ClareLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:37 am
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Regarding Eustacia
Quote:
what would have been the harm of just telling them she had recently lost her parents and was new to the school way of life.


Maybe this is the reason then that Joey and occasionally Hilda will explain a new pupil's situation to a pupil, so that there is at least one person in the class who understands the new girl and tries to make life easier for her. It could explain an awful lot about Joey's interfering personality in the later books - regret for her actions which nearly cost another pupil's life?

#17:  Author: Liz KLocation: Bedfordshire PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:10 am
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Jennie wrote:
I think that Eustacia's was the worst case of bullying, and Jo was heavily involved in it. The poor girl was blamed for a blizzard starting, and for everything.


I agree; no-one took into account Eustacia had lost her parents and it seems to me she was pushed around at everyone else's convenience and given no consideration at all.

#18:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:47 pm
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Clare wrote:
Regarding Eustacia
Quote:
what would have been the harm of just telling them she had recently lost her parents and was new to the school way of life.


Maybe this is the reason then that Joey and occasionally Hilda will explain a new pupil's situation to a pupil, so that there is at least one person in the class who understands the new girl and tries to make life easier for her. It could explain an awful lot about Joey's interfering personality in the later books - regret for her actions which nearly cost another pupil's life?


That's pretty much what I tried to show in my recent drabble Senior Mistress.

#19:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:18 am
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I find the bully reconciliations to be unrealistic. Jack, for example, bullies Jane deliberately and gets the rest of her flock of sheep to ostracise her. I don't see the two of them becoming friends to the point that they visit each other on holidays as they do in the books. The knowledge that someone can treat you that badly out of sheer petulant spite is not condusive to later trust.

Actually, Jack and Jane are a very good parallel to modern cases of bullying. A new or unusual girl is picked out for fairly petty reasons and is made the target for the term. She is actively harrassed by one or more of the girls (called names, publicly humiliated, insulted) while the others either halfheartedly join in, or just ignore the whole process. The staff stand back and pretty much ignore it, and when the situation flares into violence Jack is protected from official retribution, while Jane shares the blame for defending herself from an unprovoked physical attack.

In studies of this sort of thing, it turns out that the person bullied can carry psychological scars for years later as a result, while the bully will completely forget the incidents, or regard them as really minor.

It's only been relatively recently that this sort of bullying has really gotten any attention in the schools, mainly because they noticed that people have been dying as a result, either by suicide, or by gunfire when bullied person snaps. In my elementary school, 20 something years ago, physical violence was stopped quickly, but psychological abuse was allowed to continue. We were told to ignore it, and that the bully would 'get bored and leave you alone', or that you should make friends with the bully. In many cases the victim was blamed for being different - too smart, not fashionable enough, too outspoken, etc.


Ruth Wilson also strikes me as a classic case - a petty tyrant who is nasty to those who don't have the power to fight back, but decent to those who are of equal rank. At least the others recognise this to some extent, unlike Jack who is clearly on the fast track to Head Girl.

#20:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:37 pm
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I think the Jack/Jane storyline is the best example of 'modern' bullying. For example Margot's blackmailing of Ted would probably not happen nowadays (tell kids you've been expelled from three schools and they'll all want to be your friend) at least not in the sort of school I went to. Nor would Joan's bullying of Rosamund (do what I say or I'll tell everyone you're from a working class family). But as jennifer said, the Jack/Jane storyline more or less corresponds with most examples of bullying today.

When I read Challenge I was under the impression that only Len had any idea of the extent to which Jack was bullying Jane - should she have reported Jack at an earlier stage? And Len perhaps didn't even really realise the reality. That explains why Jane was punished for fighting Jack; the authorities didn't know the whole story. And it is similar to other cases of fighting in CS. For example, when Lavender attacks Bride and they fight, Bride is punished even though she was the victim.

Also, the failure to really look into the circumstances of the Jane/Jack fight can be seen as a failure on the part of the staff (without Miss A's leadership) to delve into the root causes of the problem.

#21:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:20 pm
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But it didn't happen in Challenge - it was in Jane of the Chalet School. Plus Len, Con and Maeve, the Head Girl, were well aware of both the cause of the fight and that Jack was at fault - but still punished Jane.

Miss Ferrars and Miss Wilmot were also aware but chose to let the prefects deal with it. Miss Annersley was never, officially, told.

#22:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:56 am
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I thought that was awful! Letting the prefects deal with some mischievous prank or other was one thing, but something as serious as bullying should have been dealt with the staff, and Hilda should have been told. I don't often sympathise with Mary-Lou, but at least she had the sense to realise that Hilda had to be brought in over Margot's behaviour in Theodora.

#23:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:13 pm
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Lesley wrote:
But it didn't happen in Challenge - it was in Jane of the Chalet School. Plus Len, Con and Maeve, the Head Girl, were well aware of both the cause of the fight and that Jack was at fault - but still punished Jane.

Miss Ferrars and Miss Wilmot were also aware but chose to let the prefects deal with it. Miss Annersley was never, officially, told.

Oops! I think because of all the Miss Wilmost/Miss Ferrars involvement I somehow got mixed up and assumed it was Challenge. Which is stupid, cos obviously it's Jane! I still don't remember the mistresses being fully aware of the way Jack was treating Jane, but that could just be my mind getting confused again. Embarassed

I suppose letting the prefects deal with it can be seen as one of those 'dealing with one of their own' scenarios. Is it possible that the mistresses thought the problem could be better resolved without staff involvement? Especially when Len is Jack's mentor. Don't some schools nowadays have pupil councils/forums which deal with bullying?



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