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Themes: Popular Culture
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Author:  Róisín [ Thu May 29, 2008 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Themes: Popular Culture
Popular culture seems to be relatively absent from the Chalet School, aside from occasional mentions of movies. Why do you think this is so? Do you think the lack of pop culture is a detriment to the series, or does it make it more timeless?

Please join in below :D
Author:  Tor [ Thu May 29, 2008 5:08 pm ]
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I think there is a distinct change attitude to popular culture between the early and later books, perhaps reflecting EBDs age.

Early on, despite a few dismisses comments about JAZZ, there are lots of positive references to copies of 'modern' prints, and the girls selecting a tea service of 'modern' design for Madge (or have I misremembered, books not to hand) which makes me think that EBD wanted the CS to be seen as modern and fashionable, but not 'fast' (hence jazz = bad).

In the later books, EBD still clings to this era, and the books keep their 30's feel I think. Not timeless, exactly, but rooted in the between the wars era mentality and fashions. Any references to popular culture after the war years are usually negative, and EBD has to invent her own parallel popular culture of famous authoresses and musicians and actors to accomplish this. She often makes statements about the new uniform being fashionable, or such like, but I am not convinced they were :D. Jo's approach to Simone's chateau is also typical EBD, rip out the old stuff and modernize! But again, the 'modernize' seems to stop somewhere in the 30's. And I think refs to kodaks rather than cameras etc reflect this. In the early books we get a bit more product placement (waterman pens, kodak brownies). Nothing at all later, I think.

I think EBD was, at heart, someone who wanted to be fashionable and modern, and had been up with popular culture in her hey day, but struggled to move with the times. However, she didn't want to be a fusty old woman, so struggled heroically to appear up to date, to various comic ends (Redheads etc).
Author:  Sunglass [ Thu May 29, 2008 6:05 pm ]
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I always find myself harping on EBD's own equivocal class background, but I think that contributes to her strongly taking a High Culture side she clearly associates to some extent with the middle and upper-middle classes she's largely writing about, though she's also clearly of her time in being interested in and approving of folk culture, whether it's English or Austrian. (And that's also middle-class.) Oberammergau Passion Play/La Boheme/wood carving/folk dances and songs/classical music/copies of 'good' pictures = good. Cinema (the company who want to film the girls in Chalet)/'cheap schoolgirl weeklies'/girls who appear to copy their make-up or hairstyles from filmstars etc = bad. (Though the cinema seems to be OK by the later books, which I know less well - which is the one with the actress's incognito sister?)

Plus I think there's also a certain of-its-time distaste for/fear of Americanisation - there's a horror of American expressions and slang throughout - which must be to some extent to do with the importation of US pop culture into the UK when she was writing. The (early, at least) CS is more about fusing Englishness (however one precisely defines that as it's displayed in the CS - which might be worth its own topic some time?) with decorative bits of Tyrolean folk culture - the folksy peasant pottery and chairs and Tzigane bands and Schuhplattler and peasant weddings etc. It always cracks me up to find the later books discussing nylon trimmings on the new uniforms, and motorboats!
Author:  Dreaming Marianne [ Thu May 29, 2008 7:56 pm ]
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I think you both hit it on the head, especially about EBD "wanting" to appear u to date, but struggling somewhat. Am trying to remember - it may be "Gay" - a section where one of them is talking about the cinema, and says she doesn't really go. Another asks why, is it because her parents disapprove? She says no, but Auntie (Ah-ha! Must be "Gay"), can't afford it.

I think that's quite an interesting comment. The lack of approval bit I mean, not the financial bit.
Author:  JackieP [ Thu May 29, 2008 9:01 pm ]
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It's "Mystery", Marianne - they talk about Auntie in the past tense.

*has just read Mystery*

JackieP
Author:  Alison H [ Thu May 29, 2008 9:45 pm ]
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There's a bit in one of the later Swiss books (Summer Term?) in which Joey starts going on about "Mods" being scruffy. Shame that Margot decided she wanted to be a nun, because otherwise I could've seen her ending up with a Mod or Rocker boyfriend and throwing Joey completely :lol: .

To be fair to EBD, schools at any time tend to concentrate on "high culture" as far as teaching goes, but the lack of reference to popular culture amongst the girls themselves in the later books never quite rings true. It makes things seem slightly unreal in the way that the Gornetz Platz setting in general does. They were pretty cut off, really - there were no cinemas nearby to go to, and there were no mentions of any nearby shops that might have sold teen magazines.

It's nice in a way, though ... if we had the girls talking about Elvis Presley or Marilyn Monroe all the time then the books'd lose their timeless feel and they wouldn't be the same.
Author:  evelyn38 [ Thu May 29, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tor wrote

Quote:
Jo's approach to Simone's chateau is also typical EBD, rip out the old stuff and modernize! But again, the 'modernize' seems to stop somewhere in the 30's.


That made me die when I read it - Jo says ' get a modern stove, an Aga or something...' :lol: [/b]
Author:  Sunglass [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Alison H wrote:


To be fair to EBD, schools at any time tend to concentrate on "high culture" as far as teaching goes, but the lack of reference to popular culture amongst the girls themselves in the later books never quite rings true. ...


My impression is that schools (and universities) are now to some extent trying desperately for 'relevance', which always seems to translate into rap lyrics as poetry, or that Cambridge paper which asked for a comparative analysis of Amy Winehouse lyrics and some Raleigh. Perhaps Prudence Dawbarn. who hates Jane Austen so much in Coming of Age, would have liked pop lyrics rather than 'Northanger Abbey'?

Alison H wrote:

It's nice in a way, though ... if we had the girls talking about Elvis Presley or Marilyn Monroe all the time then the books'd lose their timeless feel and they wouldn't be the same.


But think how much more amusing the sales themes might have been? Just reading Coming of Age, with the school suggesting either folk themes (Nursery Rhymes/Ballads) or classic literature (Shakespeare/Chaucer/Dickens/Water Babies), but quite fancy the Bric-a-brac stall being manned by the Prefects all dressed as Marilyn Monroes, and the Opener being given a bouquet by a Junior in a miniature Elvis Presley quiff...
Author:  Pat [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
I went to boarding school in 1959, and that 'modern' dress would have been pretty awful then! It also felt very childish in design, especially with the smocking. In RL the girls would have worn starched petticoats under them to make them stand out, but of course it's never mentioned in the books!
Author:  patmac [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:30 pm ]
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I was a bit earlier at boarding school than t'other Pat but certainly the school was way behind the current fashions - in fact nearer the CS, now I think of it. I think it's only fairly recently that schools have given way to 'fashion'.

As far as 'popular culture' is concerned, I think we should remember that Elvis only really appeared on the scene in 1956, Loninie Donegan didn't have a hit till 1957 and Cliff Richards had his first hit in 1958. The Rolling Stones didn't have a recording contract till 1963 - after the CS series ended. A friend of mine (male but not a 'boy friend') practised his trumpet at my parents house in the period 1956 - 1960 - his parents didn't even know he had one. I've no idea what the neighbours thought :roll:

Ah! those were the days *lapses into senile nostalgia*
Author:  Kate [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sinatra was quite popular with teenagers in the 1940s, wasn't he? I wonder what the CS would have thought of him. :)
Author:  Mel [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that EBD ignored a lot of popular culture due to her own upbringing, where her mother was trying to push the family up the social ladder and hiding skeletons in cupboards (father leaving them). So the Music Hall and cheap weeklies of her day would have been considered 'common' but classical music and Victorian novels would be quite safe for a socially insecure upwardly mobile girl. In some of the books she does add some references, for example the cinema in Armiford, a mention of television and even has Len of all people using the word 'square'. She ignores the social upheaval of the 1960s when girls from Roedean and Benenden (as well as the Catholic schools of Mayfield and St Mary's Ascot) would be sticking up pictures og pop stars in their cubicles!
Author:  Jennie [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:29 pm ]
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I do often wonder whether EBD ever went to a big house, owned by the higher echelons of the professional classes, as a visitor, or did she imagine them?

And certainly, when her families, particularly in 'Seven Scamps' went on holiday, they seemed to live in cramped accommodation. If they had three girls in one bedroom, why did they have room for Mr. Eltringham to stay?

And the Athertons rented a small bungalow, with all those children, so they must have been cramped as well.
Author:  Sunglass [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jennie wrote:
I do often wonder whether EBD ever went to a big house, owned by the higher echelons of the professional classes, as a visitor, or did she imagine them?


Juding by my own (not extensive) knowledge of the upper-middle and upper classes, EBD was either unaware of the fantastically uncomfortable and shabby conditions some old-moneyed/landed wealthy people quite contentedly lived in (and still live in!), or - more likely - she's trying to reconcile this to her own (lower-middle-class and more modern, by our standards) preference for 'daintiness', warmth, extreme cleanliness and floral prints in interior decor. I think this comes out very strongly when she has Joey advise Simone on what to do to modernise her ancestral chateau, which is to rip out everything, modernise, board over the stone floors and put in an Aga. I think the result sounds nasty, but I slightly admire EBD for unsnobbishly choosing labour-saving modern comfort over antlers and moth-eaten tapestries.

I mean, families like the Maynards and the Russells must have had access to family heirlooms and antiques all over, but there's no emphasis on them at all (apart from baby Stephen teething on the old Maynard coral) and Joey in Cartref will miss her Queen Anne house not because it's old and beautiful but for the practical reason that it has a lot of convenient cupboards!
Author:  Jennie [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, that's the way our heritage goes: modernise with Josephine M Bettany.

I do know that some people prefer their old stuff. I was quite thrilled one year to see a photo of the Queen, taken at Balmoral, and the sofa she was sitting on was quite lumpy, and that wasn't disguised by the loose covers.

If it's good enough for the Queen............
Author:  Lesley [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:20 pm ]
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Wasn't it some Conservative MP who sneered that certain people were so uncooth that they had to buy their furniture? Thereby implying that they were lower class as they were not inheriting antiques that had been in the family for generations. :lol:

Michael Heseltine springs to mind.
Author:  JS [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Lesley wrote
Quote:
Wasn't it some Conservative MP who sneered that certain people were so uncooth that they had to buy their furniture? Thereby implying that they were lower class as they were not inheriting antiques that had been in the family for generations.

Michael Heseltine springs to mind.


It was actually Michael Jopling who said that about Michael Heseltine, whom he considered nouveau riche. It was revealed, I think, in the diaries of Alan Clark, another tremendous snob, and is often mistakenly attributed to him. All lovely people, I'm sure!
Author:  Lesley [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Knew Michael Heseltine was involved - and Michael Jopling was a Conservative MP at the time.
Author:  jennifer [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Tor wrote:
In the later books, EBD still clings to this era, and the books keep their 30's feel I think. Not timeless, exactly, but rooted in the between the wars era mentality and fashions.


I think that's a good description. The early books do have a good sense of their place in time. Even though a lot of pop culture stuff isn't explicitly mentioned by name there are references to jazz, or cinema filming, or the aforementioned 'modern' prints. The slang, too, fits the era. In England, too, the references to the war, other GO authors, and things like Jennifer Penrose's illicit reading keep the series grounded in time.

In the later books, I think she loses touch with what schoolgirls were saying and doing. Slang is firmly suppressed, and what the girls come up with seems more contrived. There are practically no references to any pop culture, positive or negative, except when condemning Joan Baker. When did EBD give up teaching? Is that correlated?

I do think that pop culture references that are too specific and detail can ruin a story for long term reading pleasure, or can in some cases make it sound rather contrived. I've come across cases where authors are trying to make a teen character sound cool and with it (or whatever the current term is) and come across like a 40 year old trying to jive with the kids. It can also be really dated even after a few years, unless referring to music or books that have remained popular on at least a ten year timescale.

And the concept of looking down on someone because they bought their furniture, rather than inheriting it, is totally foreign to my cultural upbringing! (My parents were into handmade farmhouse antiques).



[/i]
Author:  Loryat [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:06 pm ]
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I haven't read a very wide range of school stories, sticking mainly to CS and whatever else I can find, also (of course) Enid Blyton. But from what I can gather most of them don't include a lot of popular culture, unless they're condemning it. In EB for example, girls who ape film stars are roundly criticised and so on.

Even Jane Shaw's Susan books which appear (to me) to be more up to date, are relatively timeless without many references to popular culture except mentioning 'the sort of magazines the girls would never normally be allowed to look at', and some (critical) referecnes to fashions (when they're in the hairdresser's).

Two examples of school stories which do attempt to be up to date are the Trebizon series and a book I found at my Grandma's called Jill Invesigates whcih seemed to be a school story set in the 60s - references to 'pop records' etc. When reading these books I was definitely aware of an uncomfortable juxtaposition of 'modern' with what is really an old fashioned story style. It seemed like the authors were trying to be cool but, being of the wrong generation, and not really skilled enough at writing, they failed to successfully capture the teen state of mind and set it in a girls' school.

In general I don't think children really appreciate 'relevant' and 'contemporary' story telling; they prefer something that is up in the clouds or set in either the future or past. Of course there are some writers who are successful in this - Jacquline Wilson and Ann M Martin for example - but most of the most successful children's books seem to me to have a fantasy or historic/futuristic slant.

Did school story writers ignore the issue of popular culture because they disliked it? Or were they smart enough to realise that they couldn't handle it? Maybe they realised that the less contemporary aspects there were to their books, the longer they would survive. Or maybe school story readers, then as now, preferred 'old fashioned' to 'reality'.
Author:  jennifer [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:44 am ]
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I think one issue is that the more detailed the cultural references, the less well they age in the short term.

If a book has numerous references to the latest hit songs and popular movies and so on then reading it 10 years later gives it a an out of date feel. After fifty years, it passes into the realm of more the historical, because the readers aren't remembering the references personally, or are doing so through decades of memory.

So if a book is historical, or fantasy, or far future science fiction, the author can either use historical references to add detail, or can make up their own pop culture and fashion. If a book is meant to be read as a contemporary novel, it's better to leave the details a little vague. The reader will fill in their own mental picture of clothes and books and pop music, and suit it to their own expectations.

It's like watching the Princess Bride. The fantasy movie part has aged really well, and can be watched now as it was when the movie came out 20 years ago. The framing story with the boy and his grandfather, however, is amusingly dated by this point.

I read CS as a historical book, and treat cultural references that way, but when they first came out, it would have been as a contemporary story.
Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
patmac wrote:
I was a bit earlier at boarding school than t'other Pat but certainly the school was way behind the current fashions - in fact nearer the CS, now I think of it. I think it's only fairly recently that schools have given way to 'fashion'.
I was at school in the mid-1960s, and in the summer term you were allowed to wear your own cotton frocks rather than the school ones (although this was, for some reason "not done" once you were about 13 or so); however they had to have short sleeves and ideally a waist so that you could put your pursebelt round it (most of us got round this by wearing our pursebelts underneath!). I do remember the Headmistress solemnly announcing at an end-of-term Assembly that she had been studying modern fashions in Vogue at the hairdresser and realised that short-sleeved summer dresses were no longer available, so we might wear sleeveless ones if we chose!
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