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#1: Girls: Old Fashioned Backgrounds Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:03 am
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In several cases EBD introduces new girls who come from very old fashioned backgrounds - Verity Carey, Polly Heriot, the McDonald twins, Gerry Challoner and so on.

Is the way these girls were portrayed reasonable, or were the storylines unrealistic? Did the girls' initial reactions to the school, and they way they fit into it eventaually, make sense? How did the individual temperments of the girls affect their integration into the school?

#2: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:40 am
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I think the earlier cases of this were fair enough - Gerry Challoner's experience for example - but as time and the books go on it becomes just a little more unrealistic.

I suppose the girls that the CS took in *were* from this cosseted, upper-class, protected world, and so it was inevitable that they were restricted to the boundaries of what their guardians thought was normal. And yet a part of me insists that they must have had enough interaction with the staff or with younger relations to know that their situation was abnormal.

#3: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:12 am
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I think it was a favourite theme of EBD's. It possibly was close to her own experience of childhood as she was a Victorian child herself. Or simply a contrast to the usual new girl story? Most of her ideas she repeats anyway (can't really blame her!)

#4: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:20 am
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I don't know if I think it does become less realistic. In each case, I can think of pretty decent reasons for the situation of each girl (Verity excepted, maybe).

Polly, for instance, was an orphaned only child brought up by elderly aunts of her father (IIRC). They then died, leaving her to the care of an elderly solicitor and his even older sister. She has no relations (that we know of), and is taught at home by a governess. I can quite easily see how she ended up as she does - particularly as she is the one out of this type of girl who isn't afraid of becoming more up to date, and actually yearns to be more "normal", more like the girls she reads about in school stories.

The Highland Twins were brought up on an isolated island. I'd expect them to be a bit different to the normal girl, though I guess what kind of different is open to question.

Verity, I'm not sure about. She has a very elderly grandfather and governess as her guardians but.... With her, I think the primness is more of a loyalty thing (stubbornly wanting to be loyal to the people her father left her with and their lifestyle) than any natural disinclination to modernise or (as with Gerry) total shock that girls don't behave as they did in 1830.

#5: Author: Tan, Location: London via Newcastle Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:05 pm
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I may be a little biased here ...

I feel that Polly adjusted well to boarding school. This is partly her own particularl personality, however, I think that her love of boarding school stories helped in many ways (the idea of classes, the ethos etc).

The McDonald twins - I really would have expected them to take a lot longer to adjust. Their background was very sheltered, their education was very different as well. I think it really would have taken more than one term. Ditto for Verity.

As for Gerry, have never really come across her as a character so I can't comment.

#6: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:20 pm
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I don't think it's unrealistic that people who'd been brought up by elderly relatives and hadn't been to school before might have had an "old-fashioned" outlook on things. Moving to somewhere very different under any circumstances - e.g. moving from a rural area to a big city, or from one country to another - is a culture shock, so going to boarding school when they'd previously been educated at home, and mixing with girls with a different outlook on life in general, must have been difficult for them.

Other than with Polly, I think EBD overdoes it, though, especially with Gerry and Verity. Polly seems a much more realistic character in that she's read school stories etc and seems to be aware that her guardians' way of doing things is a little out of date. As indeed do they: her guardian (I forget his name) says something in his letter to the school about how he appreciates that what was considered appropriate for young girls when his sister was Polly's age probably isn't so any longer.

#7: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:17 pm
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What I find funny is that when talking about these girls, EBD is (and the mistresses and the other pupils etc are) disparaging about the way they were brought up - saying that the old fashioned methods of teaching are bad, the clothes are embarrassing, the mannerisms strange.

But everywhere else in her book (no pun intended), old fashioned is good. In fact, across the GO range of authors, old fashioned is generally a Good Thing. Even Priyadarshini Narendra picked up on it in the latest filler, with Joey sticking to her 'oldfashioned morals' and eventually hairstyle, as it was more in keeping with her character (Joey's words not mine). Think of Joey talking about jazz music in the Tyrol books. Or the way that all 'new' methods of bringing up children or disciplining in school (Tanswick) are scorned upon by Madge and Joey. In A Little Princess, her old fashioned outlook on life is sweet and endearing. Anne Shirley loves dear old things to the point of leaving all the ancient furniture in the House of Dreams. And the only times she tries to do her hair 'the new way' it falls flat and she reverts to some dear oldfashioned tried and tested way.

I suppose I am just confused about where EBD draws the line. These examples of her characters that have very old fashioned backgrounds are just her own opinions on new vs old, taken to their logical conclusion (and yes, exaggerated a bit in the result). I don't understand the level of her unsympathy with Verity's, Gerry's etc guardians.

#8: Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:07 pm
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Where EBD seems to draw the line is when the guardians/parents/whatevers see their child/ward as a minature version of themselves. To take another example, Eustacia's parents are not exactly well regarded as *parents* because they brought her up to be a copy of themselves, where as Mr Wilmot recognises that he and his sister really aren't the best people to look after Polly but he isn't sure what *IS* best for her.

Ray *pondering*

#9: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:05 am
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Just to add another girl to the mix - Yseult Pertwee's previous education is made much of because it is so backward - because she has been taught from the books her grandmother learned from.

#10: Author: Tan, Location: London via Newcastle Australia

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:10 pm
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There are several comments made about people being educated on 'modern lines' as well - Emerence Hope for one, the other Chalet School being another. I wonder then what EBD regarded the Chalet School style as being?

#11: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:15 pm
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I think when they talk about 'modern lines' they mean schools like the one that Eustace and Jill go to in the Narnia books. No discipline, no assessment, etc.

#12: Author: Lisa A., Location: North Yorkshire

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:59 pm
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I think the was EBD portrayed these girls was perfectly reasonable and don't think she had a particular point to make about old versus new. I think the anachronistic attitudes were just another "new girl" thing to make a change from orphans / illnesses / strange behaviour etc.

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