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#1: Mary-Lou Vs Dimsie Author: Caty, Location: New Zealand

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:34 am
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I have just read some of the Dimsie Books by Dorita Fairlie Bruce and it struck me that Dimsie shares a lot of Mary-Lou's characteristics, like the butting in. The big difference is that Dimsie doesn't always take centre stage. In my opinion, Mary-Lou would have been a much nicer character if she, like Dimise, had faded into the background on occasion.

After her first term or two, she's always form prefect, dormy prefect, first to be a sub-pree and then Head-Girl. Do you think that if other characters like Vi Lucy) had been developed a little more - like Erica in the Dimsie -books- that Mary-Lou would be a more likeable character?

#2: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:22 pm
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I haven't read the Dimsie books, but I do think that OOAO would be a more appealing character if those around her were better-developed characters.

Vi starts off as the leader of the group but then fades into the background. Verity starts off as a very strong character but then becomes "a broken reed". Phil Craven, the "bad girl" of that age group, is written out of the series at an early stage, and the "naughty ones" - Emerence, Primrose, Priscilla and Prudence - end up in a lower form with girls much younger than them. & I never feel that we get to know people like Hilary, Doris and the 2 Lesleys as well as we get to know the people around Joey or the people around Len.

Some groups work quite well where there is no one central character - e.g. the Bride/Tom/Nancy Chester group, the Quintette, the Daisy/Beth/Gwensi group, the Judy/Janice/Ailie group - and others work well where there is one dominant character - e.g. Joey's Quartette - but with Mary-Lou's group the others are just totally overshadowed. Even the staff refer to them as "Mary-Lou & Co" or "Mary-Lou and the rest of the Gang" Rolling Eyes

#3: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:11 pm
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Interesting thoughts.

You could actually think of Mary-Lou as a bit of an amalgam of Dimsie and Erica. She has Dimsie's caring-for-lame-dogs / interfering-for-the-good-of-others side, but also Erica's bossy, I'm in charge, I set the agenda for the group side. So, in some ways, ML fills both roles (which is maybe what makes her less than likeable for some folks...).

The rest of Dimsie's group are pretty much ciphers - dreamy, pretty, lazy Rosamund who is really Dimsie's best chum and is pretty thoroughly looked after by Dimsie through the series (hmm - parallels to Verity), sporty Pam (who is probably the least looked after - a Vi Lucy equivalent?), poetry writing Jean (hmm - can't think of a CS equivalent for her!) and gossipy Mabs (she'd be drummed out of the CS!). They are all subserviant to Dimsie / Erica really.

In terms of similarities betwen Dimsie and ML, there are certainly examples where Dimsie interferes where she isn't wanted, either for the good of the victim or the good of the school. Ursula Grey is a pretty reluctant recipient of Dimsie's attentions. As is Fenela (or whatever she is called). One of the differences though, is that Dimsie's friends see her interfering tendencies as funny / frustrating rather than admirable (as the CS people do). They are always complaining that she spends too much time helping others and not enough time with them...

Other similarities: Dimsie is apt to rush off to see the Head whenever it suits her, and often gets away with things other girls wouldn't. She also comes back for a term after leaving to help the Head out, and ends up fixing various problems around the school.

So, I think she's very Mary-Lou-ish. But by being presented as less than perfect by the author (and laughed at / teased etc. by her peers), she comes across in a more sympathetic way than ML does.

#4: Author: jo_62, Location: Northern Ireland

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:05 pm
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I must raid my mum's attic for her Dimsie books. I read them as a child, after I'd exhausted the Chalet School and Anne books. They were good enough, but not my favourites. I did like the one set during World War 2 - I think there was a spy whose plans were scuppered by Dimsie?

#5: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:57 pm
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I think Caroline has hit the nail on the head. Dimsie is written as not being perfect, but as a fallible human being, whilst Mary-Lou receives too much admiration for her butting in.

#6: Author: francesn, Location: away with the faeries

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:52 pm
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I would also agree that Mary-Lou would be better if the characters around her were better written, and if she were more of a rounded character. I can't say that M-L's one dimensional because she isn't, but she isn't as interesting or really as well thought out as Dimsie.

#7: Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:47 am
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But then Dorita Fairlie Bruce is a much better writer than EBD. Her characterisation generally is better, and her view of school life is arguably more realistic than EBD's, which is ironic given the fact that DFB wasn't a teacher as EBD was. Then again, maybe the CS books were a form of escapism for EBD- she got enough of school-realism with the Margaret Roper, perhaps!

Dimsie gets into trouble too, sometimes, even when HG. I'm thinking of the lovely scene when she shouts at the old lady. Her attempt to explain it away to Miss Yorke always makes me laugh, especially the way Dimsie kept trying to argue that her actions were perfectly understandable, and Miss Yorke would have acted in that self-same way... ! Which now I come to think of it is very MLish, but I don't think even OAOOML would have dared to speak to Miss A in that fashion when, strictly speaking, she was in trouble..

#8: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:10 am
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And DFB is also much more interested in the personalities / psychology of girls and the relationships between them - that's really the focus of her books. Hence, most of her characters are much more fully realised, and realistic and three dimensional than most of EBDs (note sweeping generalisation!!).

I would agree that she is a better writer than EBD (although I personally think EBD created better plots - but then her books were All About the Plot), but for all that they both wrote school stories, DFB set out to do something quite different from EBD (IMO). You could say that DFB wrote about girls, whereas EBD wrote about a school...

#9: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:34 am
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I seem to remember that even though Dimsie was an Ant-Soppist she kissed Miss Yorke's hand at one point. I can't see ML doing that!

#10: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am
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Yeah - definite double standards there!

Although compared to the amount of kissing which apparently goes on in Angela Brazil's books, that's pretty mild.

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