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Girls: Major Cliques
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Author:  Róisín [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Girls: Major Cliques
There are a variety of cliques over the years, most notably Mary-Lou's Gang, but also including the Quartette, the Quintette, Jack's Gang, several Triumvirates, The Crew, and Bride and Tom and their friends. What do you think of the way the social dynamics are shown? What about the staff's reaction to the more organized groups of friends?

Please join in and discuss below :D
Author:  Meg14 [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:38 pm ]
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I have never liked the way that Mary Lou seemed to have the right to trial future members of the gang as seems to be the case in as Chalet Girl from Kenya. To me that made it a real clique whereas the groups like the Quintette always seemed more relaxed and more fun. One of my favourite descriptions in the series is of the Quintette covering themselves in paints in Oberammergau!

I have to say I really don't like Jack's gang at all although may be that has a lot to do with the fact that I really don't like Jack. I think particularly its summed up for me by the way that they follow Jack like sheep when she is bullying Jane Carew. May be EBD was trying to show how cliques in school could be negative but I just felt it was really nasty!
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:41 pm ]
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I don't like Jack's Gang at all, but have to say that I find the way Jack makes them all gang up on Jane and their feud with the rival gang led by Gillie Garstin pretty realistic in terms of what goes on at schools! Mary-Lou's Gang, with one big group of girls, led by one person with a very forceful personality, dominates a whole form/year group, is also pretty realistic - there was a "gang" of 9 girls in our class at school and sometimes it wasn't much fun for the only 20 or so of us in the class. There's one scene in which Hilda Jukes is really pleased to get a good seat for something, but the poor girl is then told that she's got to move because Mary-Lou's Gang have "bagged" all the best seats, including the one she's innocently sitting in; and it just reminds me so much of the sort of thing that used to happen at our school!

We're repeatedly told that the staff don't want to interfere in the girls' friendships, which is fair enough, but in the early Swiss books there are a lot of comments about the staff relying on Mary-Lou's Gang to lead their form, which always seems a bit off to me.

The other groups are generally much more appealing. In Theodora we "hear" Len thinking about how Joey, Marie, Simone and Frieda have been friends since they were twelve and have remained friends even though they don't get to see each other much any more, and that's lovely: people who have those sorts of lifelong friendships are very lucky. Also, the groups of 3, 4 or 5 people don't dominate their forms the way that the bigger groups do. Bride & co are a particularly nice group.
Author:  JennieP [ Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:35 am ]
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I have to admit, I have always found the Gang pretty obnoxious and not particularly realistic. I think it's an EBD thing about the girls she likes being morally superior to anyone else, and oh boy, don't they know it! Yet at the same time, viewed objectively they are incredibly cliquey and patronising, whereas Jack's gang, although bratty, are far more realistic.

I get the feeling that by the end of the series, unlike, say, with Bride's pals, the Quintette, and early Joey, EBD was starting to get stuck into the rut of stereotyping and idolising particular people. Are Peggy and her pals in Oberland perhaps the first example of the way EBD was beginning to go?
Author:  Loryat [ Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:18 pm ]
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The Gang, especially in the Oberland, is a much more formal group than any other friendship group in the entire series I think - I don't know about Jack's Crew but the Triplets and their friends definitely aren't as 'cliquey' as the Gang. I always wonder what was the reason for that departure by EBD.

The dominant personalities and the dominant gangs are very realistic though, if less attractive to read about than other groups of friends. The Quintette in particular are very relaxed, often incorporating lots of other girls.
Author:  Cathie [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:42 am ]
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I think that most of them are quite realistic, the early ones, like the Quartette and Quintette, the most. The Gang is realistic, if not particularly pleasant.
Author:  Lesley [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:09 pm ]
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I'm another that doesn't like the Gang as it is portrayed in the swiss years - though when they were younger I did like them. And I think Jack Lambert's crowd are a spineless and cowardly bunch led by a very nasty sadistic bully.

I think the problem with both of these cliques isn't that the portrayal is not realistic - on the contrary they are both very realistic and most people will be able to point to people in their own schooldays that was part of a similar gang. The main problem is that, through EBD's eyes, we are expected to both praise and approve of these gangs and of their leaders. Of the two I would say that Mary Lou, although annoying, definitely was leadership material and did attempt to help whenever she 'butted-in'. Jack Lambert, however, was not leadership material, at least she should not be from the CS authorities point of view.

EBD goes to extraordinary lengths to promote her as the sucessor to Mary Lou and Len - but Jack is never called to account for her behaviour and is shielded not only by the Prefects and Head Girl but by certain of the Mistresses.
Author:  jennifer [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Lesley wrote:

I think the problem with both of these cliques isn't that the portrayal is not realistic - on the contrary they are both very realistic and most people will be able to point to people in their own schooldays that was part of a similar gang. The main problem is that, through EBD's eyes, we are expected to both praise and approve of these gangs and of their leaders.


Exactly! Mary-Lou is well meaning, but she's also very bossy, and I would think that having an exclusive clique that comprises about half the form would be very disruptive, particularly to those doomed to being on the sidelines because they weren't worthy.

Jack and her flock of sheep irritate me no end, probably partially because I was on the bullied end of kids like that when I was that age, and it's pretty hideously unpleasant when you're twelve and the class clique leader has making you miserable as one of their goals. When said bully is being excused and cosseted and and shielded from the consequences of her actions it's worse.

There's an interesting difference between the two. In Mary-Lou's gang, there were a number of girls who also had strong leadership potential, particularly Josette, Vi and Jo Scott. However, in Jack's gang, Jack's the only strong personality, the others are all follower types.

Of all of them, I like Bride and Tom and their friends, partially because they were very non exclusive and friendly, and didn't have a single very strong leader to dominate things.
Author:  Alex [ Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I always think it's a bit odd the way everyone talks about how Joey, Marie, Frieda and Simone were always really good friends because I don't think you see them as a quartet until New House, which is their last term. Apart from the flour incident in Rivals, I can't think of any other time when they are a foursome, rather than just each of the other three being friends with Jo.
Author:  Nightwing [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Alex wrote:
I always think it's a bit odd the way everyone talks about how Joey, Marie, Frieda and Simone were always really good friends because I don't think you see them as a quartet until New House, which is their last term.


I agree with this! All three of them are friends with Joey, but I think it's fair to say that Joey is naturally gregarious - in the earlier books she is more or less friends with everyone, and by the time she is Head Girl, when the school is so much better, she is still fairly good friends with quite a few people.

I think perhaps though that Joey was closest with those three, of all her friends? Frieda and Marie also seem to have a pretty strong friendship. Simone, on the other hand, never seems to be friends with anyone except Joey!
Author:  MJKB [ Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  major cliques
I dislike cliques in any social situation. They should be discourged in schools as part of an anti-bullying stance.
Anyone who was not deemed sufficiently worthy was excluded from 'the gang' with the collusion and tolerant amusement of the Chalet staff. It is, in my view, one of the major flaws in the books.
Author:  Smile :) [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls: Major Cliques
Yeah, like many other people I am not a fan of the way these cliques are presented. While they are true to life i think the way EBD portrays them as a good thing is the bit that really irritates me. I reallydon't like the idea that Mary-Lou gets to chose who is in, or out of the gang - or the way that the staff seem to endorse it. I haven't read a lot of the later books so I can't really comment on Jack's group. Generally I prefer the groups where things are a bit more fluid and people don't always have to be part of the same group. I also think its fine when it's just two or three people who are really close like the trimuvirate or that pair Catriona and somebody or other who were ages with the gang etc.

I agree that Joey, Simone, Marie and Frieda were only presented as really good friends after they left school. At school it seemed to me that while Frieda and Marie were good friends, Joey was someone who was more friends with everyone (often tending towards those older than her) and Simone was someone with few close friends (apart from idolising Joey.
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