The CBB :: View topic - Books: Joey and Co in Tirol

Is this the book with the infamous "six foot of young manhood" comment in it

then she has to deal with Charles when he is ill in the night

I agree with the general comments about the Maynard family dynamic. Joey, in particular, may have been suffering from 'Mother Teresa complex.' I read about that condition recently in relation to Angelina Jolie. It is suffered by people who have an overwhelming desire to rescue others in an attempt to distract themselves from their own problems.

Also, he says that Sybil will probably be whisked away by some young man soon because she's "a regular honeypot" - OK, it's a really cringeworthy thing for a dad to say, but he means it in a nice way, and it suggests that the Russells have got over the whole thing of making Sybil feel guilty about her looks.

The space travel notion is quite a good (and advanced?) one, although I thought it very far-fetched even as a bairn.

I wonder if Jo knew about Jack's temper before they were married? I don't think we see any instance of Jack being unreasonably angry in the Tyrol books, but she'd known the Maynards since she was thirteen, and stayed at the family home more than once. She might have heard talk.

It suggests Jack doesn't 'understand' her as well as he says, if he doesn't realise how quick to take offence she is. (And he should, as they both have serious tempers, although we don't see his until after his marriage.)

More seriously (of course they're "real" people :lol:

!) his experiences during the War may well have changed him. And - again seriously - maybe he found it difficult that he lost his brother and his nephew, he never got to see his sister because she was on the other side of the world, and he ended up giving up the Maynard family home.

I think the way Jack handled her was good, he didn't get upset but remained calm and in control. There are plenty of moments in the books like that. He talks to the triplets when there older about helping out more and acknowledges that Len does but Con and Margot could help out more which shows he's sympathetic towards Len re: the responsibility thrust upon and believe's the others should share it more. He is unperturbable when Miss Bubb loses her temper over the girls having to sit outside but never allows the girls eg Gay to be rude to her and supports her in expecting them to be polite and apologise for their rudeness.

As a result I tend not to say Jack has a nasty temper. I don't know many people who only lose their temper (from what we can see) twice in their lifetime. He's just happen to lose it in a nasty and very scary way with Mike! Which to me seems more out of character, than the norm.

but when this book was written, space travel was very much on the horizon - surely there would have been all sorts of crackpots making harebrained attempts to enter orbit before the first successful manned flight happened in 1961?

(Unless the San doctors did space travel illnesses, as well as TB, back and head injuries, rheumatoid arthritis, and obstetrics!)

one of the sweetest-tempered men you could find anywhere as a rule

I always thought her excuse of not going there because 'the air there doesn't suit me or the girls' to be quite pathetic.

Bournemouth [now Dorset, for the pedants among us, but still Hampshire until 1974]

the fact that we never find out what happened to Rolf (very German-sounding name, isn't it :roll:

?) is very annoying

Author:	jennifer [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:34 am ]
Post subject:	Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
A synopsis of this vacation story can be found here. What do you think of this book? Any opinions on the opening sequence, Joey's faint, Jack's anger and Mike's banishment? Anyone agree with Jack here? We also introduced to the Richardsons. What do you think about the first meetings between them and the Maynards, and the Maynards' interference in their life, and the infamous Dr Richardson? Is the relationship with Daisy's husband too far fetched?

Author:	Alison H [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I love the fact that the Maynards get a holiday home in Tyrol so we get to go on visits (so to speak!) to the Tiernsee. The business with Prof Richardson going into space is very silly, but that's more in the next book. I don't know why it had to turn out that the Richardsons were related to the Rosomons - nice though it was to Daisy again - but at this point it didn't seem too far-fetched: it just seems silly in the light of Adrienne, Melanie et al all also turning out to be related to Old Girls. The Maynards' collecting of random children/teenagers is a bit daft, though . The treatment of Mike is awful. And it annoys me when Madge says that Rosa will be "delighted" to have little girls to look after again - I can't imagine Rosa being at all "delighted" to have 4 (was it 4?) extra kids foisted on her!! I think Roger Richardson is quite interesting : Joey gives him a cigarette, there are all those swimming races, he is sent off on his own with Con whilst Joey takes Ruey shopping, and we're told - in the context of his being there - that Len can "never look anything but pretty"! I don't think any other boy in the CS series is treated (by EBD) like that . Is this the book with the infamous "six foot of young manhood" comment in it (sorry, couldn't resist!)? ETA - ooh, thank you Sunglass: I'd forgotten about the skimpy swimming trunks .

Author:	Elle [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Alison H wrote: Is this the book with the infamous "six foot of young manhood" comment in it Isn't this also the one with Professor Richardson's locked box - the one found in the bushes, which we never hear of again? I quite like this one, mainly because of the chapter where the Maynards and Richardsons attack the hikers thinking they are armed robbers. I think the punishment of Mike is excessive in the extream, but I find that if the Maynard children are to be punished, then Jack does seem to go over the top and be very harsh. Doesn't he not speak to Margot at one point? (not in this book). Sorry if this sounds a bit disjointed, but my form are clamouring to come in and I am trying to ignore them!

Author:	Sunglass [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Yes, this is the one where Roger as 'six foot of young man' and 'clad only in the exiguous swimming trunks the boys all wore' makes some elderly women scream when he emerges from the lake. I agree with Alison that there's some slightly 'special' treatment of Roger throughout - Joey offering him a cigarette even though he's sixteen (and she's just said in the same breath that she won't hear of the triplets smoking till they are at least seventeen) and making sure to ask him how his injured leg is in an undertone, so young Mr Macho won't be embarrassed by her asking. She's also careful to soften the fact that she goes first on the climb up to the cave, presumably again in case he feels emasculated: 'You'd make nothing of it if you hadn't a gammy leg.' There's definitely a slight but distinct difference in the way Joey treats Roger and her more straightforwardly bossy way with girls of the same age! He's definitely in transition to Young Man rather than mere boy... And the bit just after frightening the old women with his semi-nudity, where he pinches Joey's towel and sits down 'at her feet' to dry, and she remarks on his 'honourable scar to tell of might battles nobly waged' - I always have a slight suspicion Joey is ogling him discreetly. Maybe his special treatment shows up all the more compared to the fact that poor Ruey is criticised by the triplets for the lack of 'feminine touches' in her housekeeping, and has her appearance completely reinvented within a day or two of moving to the Maynards'. Completely agree with others about the outrageousness of Mike's treatment. (The bit that really freaks me out is that Len realises enough about her father's murderous feelings towards Mike for her to immediately send him off to Hilary Graves to keep him out of the way!)Of course, the real issue is not so much that Mike has done something dangerous, but that he has 'caused' Joey's faint. It puts Joey in a manipulatively strong position as regards the obedience of all her children - you need to be 'good' or make your mother dangerously ill (and your father dangerously enraged). And Madge again brings up the fact that Joey is already exhausted from the scarlet fever and Naomi Elton's illness the previous term - despite the fact that Len never actually got scarlet fever, and that Joey hardly knew Naomi Elton!

Author:	JayB [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Jo is, once again, useless in a crisis. OK, she was recovering from a difficult pregnancy and the birth of twins, and was presumably having broken nights as well. But if she was so weak that she was likely to keel over at the slightest stress, why hadn't Jack noticed and put her on bed rest and an iron tonic? And what was she thinking, taking all eleven children out with no other adult supervision, when she wasn't fully fit herself? (How plausible is a two hour faint, anyway? What was wrong with her? Severe anaemia?)

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Books: Joey and Co in Tirol http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5241

Author:	Jennie [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Poor Mike, so badly treated for what was a childish escapade. Jo should have been looking after her own health, not relying on her children to do it for her. And what about her own escapades when she was a schoolgirl?

Author:	miss_maeve [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I've often wondered what was in that locked box........might be drabble food

Author:	Nightwing [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I actually think this is one of the more acceptable times for Joey to faint - I'm not a mother myself, but I imagine the instant terror of seeing one of your children go over a cliff could put you in enough shock to faint (although for two hours? That seems like overkill...) I love the Richardson children, and I never minded the Maynards interference in their lives. The 'distantly related' trope is still fairly new at this point and it's lovely to see the Rosomons again. I also think Joey's treatment of Roger makes sense to a point - at his age, he is less likely to come to see Joey and Jack as a replacement parental figure, and treating him as a child is likely to offend him and generally make life difficult.

Author:	JayB [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I quite like the Richardsons, and I think they're well drawn characters, but I'm not sure what the point of making them Maynard wards was. EBD didn't need to introduce any new characters at this point. If Ruey had been younger maybe she could have filled in the gap between the triplets and Felicity, but as it is she's rather redundant. She leaves school at the same time as the triplets, so we don't get to see her taking on a leadership role. Her two principal storylines in her own book are the lacrosse, and Francie's jealousy, both of which could have been achieved without giving the Maynards three wards.

Author:	Emma A [ Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
It's quite some time since I read this, in an (I think) unabridged paperback format, but enjoyed it. I like the relationship between the Richardsons, their self-sufficiency is interesting, given their father's propensity to ignore them for days (weeks?) at a time. EBD's treatment of Roger is interesting, and quite different to any of her other male characters, I think. Perhaps it's our dirty minds, but the descriptions lavished on him are very much more detailed and intense than any of the doctors randomly encountered, and reactions to him are strong, whether Joey's or the old ladies! It's perhaps the only time in the series where a young man's physical appearance is given much weight. I liked Ruey very much, and thought she was very sweet-natured to take the criticisms (however kindly meant) the triplets made on her housekeeping and personal appearance. I guess she was just grateful to have someone look after her capably (after all, Roger was only two years her senior). I have forgotten completely how the birds-nesting/fainting episode goes, so can't comment on how justified the reaction or otherwise was of everyone. Joey's faint would be really worrying to Jack, but instead of turning his worry into anger against Mike, he should have jolly well found out what was wrong with his wife - a two hour faint is not the reaction of someone who has just been badly shocked (though EBD may not have known this), but would be symptomatic of some underlying condition such as a serious heart problem. It's lovely to have another book set in Tyrol, after the poor return in Coming of Age.

Author:	Billie [ Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I don't remember some of the stuff you're mentioning about Roger going swimming and frightening the little old ladies. I've only got the paperback and maybe it's abridged - I'm pretty sure it didn't have the smoking references as I think I read it before being shocked in another one by Joey smoking. (Nasty suspicion that is one of the books I've lent to my aunt so cannot double-check.) It is a favourite as it's good to see the Tyrol again properly - I always felt somewhat short-changed in Coming of Age. Are the contents of Professor Richardson's box one of those EBD mysteries that we will never know the answer to?

Author:	Clare [ Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I really like this book; it was one of the few CS books that my local library had so I read it quite a lot as a child and I bought it when they decided to sell it. My favourite scene is when the Maynards and Richardsons attack the hikers, mistaking them for bank robbers. I cry laughing everytime at the description of Charles "in the act of plumping down on his head!" The salt mines trip is pretty cool, reminiscent of the trip I took when I went to Salzberg. As a child, I felt very conscuious of Len's criticisms of Ruey for not brushing out her hair and getting into bed without praying, and would always makke an extra effort to do both for the week after I'd finished that chapter. I do feel sorry ofr Len in this book though - she tries to sheild Mike from her father, is the one who is depended upon to see to the Richardsons, then she has to deal with Charles when he is ill in the night. Made me feel very thankful that I was the eldest with only one sister!

Author:	JayB [ Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Quote: then she has to deal with Charles when he is ill in the night I feel very sorry for poor Chas, having to suffer a couple of hours more pain, because Len didn't want to disturb Joey. And the delay could have had serious consequences, but no-one suggests to Len that she should have called Jack straight away.

Author:	jennifer [ Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I wonder what the boys response would have been on coming to the Tyrol. They attend boarding school in another country, and only see their parents on the long holidays. They are banished from the family holiday because their mother needs rest. When the finally are allowed back, they arrive to discover their mother has adopted two more boys, and is neck deep in caring for them. I like the views of Tirol in this book, but the Jack/Joey/kids dynamic is pretty disturbing - Jack's violent temper, where it's actually dangerous to have him around his children, Joey's lack of judgement when it comes to her own health, the way the kids (and Jack) believe that their mother's health and need to keep her from worrying is more important than their own well being, including Len and Charles reluctance to call their parents when Charles is in intense pain. It strikes me that Joey and Jack should have been fixing their own family, rather than adopting more children.

Author:	Sunglass [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
The comparison I always find myself sliding into is with Mia Farrow and her multiple adoptions. I try not to follow that one to its logical conclusion, though, as it means Jack/Woody ends up leaving Joey for one of their wards, which sounds grim, faintly incestuous and rather Chalet Girls Grow Up. Though I suppose one could feasibly imagine (though not, obviously, in EBD's universe!) a relatively late arrival like Ruey Richardson developing a ferocious late-teenage crush on Jack (especially as her own father was so disastrous and Joey and the triplets are so insistent that she develop her femininity) that would coincide with him having a midlife crisis... I would read a drabble on Jack's midlife crisis in a heartbeat - he wakes up one morning, decides he's tired of essentially living with an eternal CS girl in a house which is pretty much in the CS, and which combines the function of small hotel and adoption agency, and wants to buy a sportscar/take a road trip/grow his hair/go on the hippy trail...

Author:	Alison H [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Having spent most of yesterday in floods of tears over the failure of my diet, I'm just going to put in a good word for the oft-maligned Jem Russell here ! When Madge gets upset over Joey's tactless teasing about her (Madge's) weight probably being what caused the ceiling to collapse, and says that she's going to a health farm to lose weight before Peggy's wedding, Jem says that he likes her just as she is. That's so sweet . Also, he says that Sybil will probably be whisked away by some young man soon because she's "a regular honeypot" - OK, it's a really cringeworthy thing for a dad to say, but he means it in a nice way, and it suggests that the Russells have got over the whole thing of making Sybil feel guilty about her looks. The Russells don't always come across as being a particularly happy family, but in this book they definitely compare very favourably with the Maynards.

Author:	Cat C [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Oh dear - is a diet worth crying over? Hope you're feeling better now. I'd forgotten all about the remarks about Madge's weight! I daresay the Maynard boys were fairly used to their parents not being around - they had such a different up-bringing in that way, didn't they? The girls could hardly sneeze without one or both parents being told about it, whereas the boys are barely mentioned by anyone once they get to school age. As an aside: is this the book where we're told Con is the fastest runner of the triplets?

Author:	claire [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
You don't have a two hour faint with anaemia - my Hb went now to 5.5 and was only out for a few seconds - did fall asleep at the drop of a hat though, was working with a Hb of 7 though and that's generally seen as low enough to need a blood transfusion

Author:	Cel [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
A two-hour 'faint' isn't really a faint at all, to be honest - that's a prolonged period of unconsciousness and nowadays would earn you a brain scan and quite possibly some time on a ventilator. With any ordinary faint, your blood pressure should start to correct as soon as you hit the deck - if you're not awake again within seconds-minutes, that implies something much more serious. Not that I think EBD intended Joey to have anything more sinister than the vague and romantic 'delicate nature' - I just think she didn't have a very realistic grasp of some aspects of human physiology!

Author:	MJKB [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I was a great 'fainter' in my youth but the most I managed was 20 minutes, at least that's what I was told. It happened in the university library and they were about to send for an ambulance when I came to. I would have been mortified to have been carried off campus by ambulance! I agree with the general comments about the Maynard family dynamic. Joey, in particular, may have been suffering from 'Mother Teresa complex.' I read about that condition recently in relation to Angelina Jolie. It is suffered by people who have an overwhelming desire to rescue others in an attempt to distract themselves from their own problems.

Author:	Alison H [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
MJKB wrote: I agree with the general comments about the Maynard family dynamic. Joey, in particular, may have been suffering from 'Mother Teresa complex.' I read about that condition recently in relation to Angelina Jolie. It is suffered by people who have an overwhelming desire to rescue others in an attempt to distract themselves from their own problems. That's fascinating! I'd never thought of comparing Joey to Angelina Jolie before, but now you come to mention it ... Although, of course, Jack was "no film star" so wouldn't really "do" as Brad Pitt ...

Author:	JS [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Quote: Also, he says that Sybil will probably be whisked away by some young man soon because she's "a regular honeypot" - OK, it's a really cringeworthy thing for a dad to say, but he means it in a nice way, and it suggests that the Russells have got over the whole thing of making Sybil feel guilty about her looks. I read the 'honeypot' thing as him noticing that she always had a flock of young men buzzing around her, rather than an (inappropriate for a dad) comment on her looks. I like this book as I tend to like all the non-school books in the series. It's only on re-reading as an adult (and after reading the board) that I've particularly noticed Jack's appalling behaviour with Mike, Len's over-responsible attitude and the Farrow/Jolie-like picking up of kids by Joey. The space travel notion is quite a good (and advanced?) one, although I thought it very far-fetched even as a bairn. And yes, I found the remarks about brushing hair before bed quite influential and still have the advice to Ruey about not putting away half-used sheets etc ringing in my ears when I'm doing laundry or deciding whether a shirt needs washed or the beds need changed!

Author:	Nightwing [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I just reread this book for the first time in ages, and it struck me that actually, Jack and Joey don't really know what they're getting themselves into when they agree to become legal guardians for the Three R's. I mean, they know that Prof. Richardson is a neglectful parent, and they are prepared to give the children the stability that he can't give them, but it's not until after they've signed all the legal documentation involved that they find out the the good Professor is planning to take off into space! The other thing I noticed was the reactions of both Jack and Joey to Mike's prank of mixing mustard with their dessert custard. Jack seems rather angrier about it than Joey, who seems to find the whole thing rather funny. She's clearly a lot more lenient than Jack - we see this at the beginning, as well, when she comes out of her faint and is determined that Mike shouldn't leave without knowing that he has been completely forgiven.

Author:	jennifer [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Actually, it's pretty obvious all the way through that Jack is a much firmer disciplinarian that Joey. Even when the triplets are little, Joey is busy covering up Margot's temper tantrums so as to not upset Jack when he's home on leave. Joey's much more obsessed with being a 'friend' to her teenage daughters as well, or playing rowdy games with the younger kids, rather than sticking with the parent role, Jack is normally a much more adult parental model for the kids - supportive, but not trying to be their best friend or confessor/counsellor. Joey has a deep need to be liked by her kids. But when Jack gets angry, he's scary - I think we know where Margot gets her violent temper from. And he seems to be most unbalanced where Joey's health is concerned. I do wonder how the males in EBD's life reacted when angry, that she thinks Jack's response is reasonable - I get the feeling that the fact that he has enough restraint not to beat Mike bloody is supposed to be seen as laudable.

Author:	JayB [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
I think Jo herself says somewhere that she can sometimes be persuaded to allow something, or to change her mind about something, but once Jack's foot is down, it's down. I wonder if Jo knew about Jack's temper before they were married? I don't think we see any instance of Jack being unreasonably angry in the Tyrol books, but she'd known the Maynards since she was thirteen, and stayed at the family home more than once. She might have heard talk.

Author:	Cel [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
JS wrote: The space travel notion is quite a good (and advanced?) one, although I thought it very far-fetched even as a bairn. For some reason, I never found the whole space travel plot all that unbelievable. Maybe I was just very naive but when this book was written, space travel was very much on the horizon - surely there would have been all sorts of crackpots making harebrained attempts to enter orbit before the first successful manned flight happened in 1961? I'd imagine the notion seemed a lot more fantastic when the book came out than it does now...

Author:	LizzieC [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
JayB wrote: I wonder if Jo knew about Jack's temper before they were married? I don't think we see any instance of Jack being unreasonably angry in the Tyrol books, but she'd known the Maynards since she was thirteen, and stayed at the family home more than once. She might have heard talk. I've been having a think about Jack's temper, and this comment and a comment by Sunglass in the thread about Jack and Grizel (here) got me thinking. Sunglass wrote: It suggests Jack doesn't 'understand' her as well as he says, if he doesn't realise how quick to take offence she is. (And he should, as they both have serious tempers, although we don't see his until after his marriage.) I wonder if Jack didn't really have a temper as we see it before he got married and it came from immense frustration as to how things turned out with his life? My brother, for example, had a filthy temper when he was growing up, born of frustration caused by his undiagnosed Dyslexia meaning he could not access the work at school, or books or much at all really. Since his diagnosis and help he became a completely different person - no more filthy temper, he became almost serene. Could a similar transformation have taken place within Jack? Did he really expect to end up with quite so many children and a wife who had gone from vivacious, lively, knowledgeable on many subjects and a wide body of interests to regressing to being a schoolgirl who was not at school with a rather narrow focus on life? It must have been rather claustrophobic for him at times. I'm not excusing the behaviour towards Mike in this book (or his other children in other books), but I think there may have been more than one explanation. ETA: Or personality change caused by his head injury in Highland Twins? ETA2: And reading over this I just remembered, again, that they are not real people...

Author:	Alison H [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Maybe he got fed up with his home being treated as some sort of annexe of the Chalet School! I can imagine him staggering in after a long shift at the San, just wanting to flop down on the settee and put his feet up, and finding the living room full of giggling schoolgirls playing "slidey mats" or teachers eating lemon biscuits, and just wanting to scream. More seriously (of course they're "real" people !) his experiences during the War may well have changed him. And - again seriously - maybe he found it difficult that he lost his brother and his nephew, he never got to see his sister because she was on the other side of the world, and he ended up giving up the Maynard family home. Also - although it may not apply so much when children are at boarding school - in the days when dads worked and mums were at home (although Joey worked, she didn't go "out" to work) I can imagine that it must have been difficult for dads arriving home late in the day and feeling a bit left out of things.

Author:	Sunglass [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Alison H wrote: More seriously (of course they're "real" people !) his experiences during the War may well have changed him. And - again seriously - maybe he found it difficult that he lost his brother and his nephew, he never got to see his sister because she was on the other side of the world, and he ended up giving up the Maynard family home. That's a good point. I've always found it slightly odd that Joey doesn't appear more stricken by Bob Maynard's death - leaving aside entirely her own relationship with him (which may have been complicated by Lydia, but which appears to have been warm), you'd think she would think of it in terms of its impact on Jack, even if they weren't terribly close. It's true that Jack narrowly escapes death, loses a brother, inherits and decides not to live on his family estate, during the war - quite apart from any trauma associated with seeing active service. And it's true that we first get an intimation of his temper during the war years - I'm thinking of the bit in Rescue where he is first confronted with Margot's temper tantrums and responds very seriously, and it emerges that Joey has been trying to hide them from him. We're allowed/encouraged to think that this is so as not to worry him/not to bother the head of the family with domestic trivia when he comes home, but maybe also so as not to provoke his anger?

Author:	Fiona Mc [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
But we only see Jack lose his temper twice, once with Margot after her disgusting behaviour with Ted and second with Mike, both occuring around the same time and while Joey was ill/having a difficult pregnancy with twins. I completely disagree with how Jack handled Mike, Margot not so much because she needed to know that what she had done was that serious. Anyway I don't remember reading about any other time where Jack lost his temper. Yes he was serious with dealing with Margot in Rescue but I think the way Jack handled her was good, he didn't get upset but remained calm and in control. There are plenty of moments in the books like that. He talks to the triplets when there older about helping out more and acknowledges that Len does but Con and Margot could help out more which shows he's sympathetic towards Len re: the responsibility thrust upon and believe's the others should share it more. He is unperturbable when Miss Bubb loses her temper over the girls having to sit outside but never allows the girls eg Gay to be rude to her and supports her in expecting them to be polite and apologise for their rudeness. As a result I tend not to say Jack has a nasty temper. I don't know many people who only lose their temper (from what we can see) twice in their lifetime. He's just happen to lose it in a nasty and very scary way with Mike! Which to me seems more out of character, than the norm.

Author:	Meg14 [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Quote: I think the way Jack handled her was good, he didn't get upset but remained calm and in control. There are plenty of moments in the books like that. He talks to the triplets when there older about helping out more and acknowledges that Len does but Con and Margot could help out more which shows he's sympathetic towards Len re: the responsibility thrust upon and believe's the others should share it more. He is unperturbable when Miss Bubb loses her temper over the girls having to sit outside but never allows the girls eg Gay to be rude to her and supports her in expecting them to be polite and apologise for their rudeness. As a result I tend not to say Jack has a nasty temper. I don't know many people who only lose their temper (from what we can see) twice in their lifetime. He's just happen to lose it in a nasty and very scary way with Mike! Which to me seems more out of character, than the norm. I am v glad that someone is sticking up for Jack. I was always quite fond of him when I read the book. May be EBD was just trying to show that he wasn't perfect? After all there must have been a real danger that he and Joey could have ended up a very saintly unbearable couple producing more perfect children. The fact that Mike is disobedient and he loses his temper makes them all seem more human somehow! As far as the book is concerned I found this when I was grown up and I was so pleased that I had! I love the passage where they think they have found the burglars and then attack them. It always makes me grin when I read it (probably cos its the kind of thing that would happen to me! )

Author:	jennifer [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Cel wrote: but when this book was written, space travel was very much on the horizon - surely there would have been all sorts of crackpots making harebrained attempts to enter orbit before the first successful manned flight happened in 1961? I dunno - trying to make your own spaceship, even today, pretty wildly improbable, as the whole process is really, really, really complicated (Disclaimer: I used to work for NASA). It's been less than five years since the first successful manned spaceflight by a private (ie non government) organization, at that was just to a certain altitude and successfully back, not to orbit. The most probably effect of a home manned spacecraft attempt even now would be a big hole, a big fire, and burning pieces of what was once the prospective astronauts. .... Interesting side note; EBD refers to the "great radio-telescope at Jodrell Bank" - the telescope itself was comissioned in 1957, five years before the book was published, so it was fairly new. It still wouldn't be much use at finding a runaway space craft, though.

Author:	Sunglass [ Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
It cracks me up slightly that Joey, true to EBD's characterisation of her as never flummoxed, manages to sound as though she knows all about space travel and its specific issues, though she can't possibly have had more than an average newspaper reader's level of information. (Unless the San doctors did space travel illnesses, as well as TB, back and head injuries, rheumatoid arthritis, and obstetrics!) It reminds me of the way that the triplets quote her as though she were the Encyclopedia Britannica - there's a bit which always kills me, though I can't remember in which book, where a new girl at her first Swiss CS breakfast is suprised to see the continental girls breaking their bread into their coffee and eating it, and Len says something like 'It's ok, they do it that way in lots of places - Mamma told us ages ago.' I think what makes me laugh there is that Len has herself been having breakfast alongside girls eating this way ever since the school came to Switzerland, but rather than asking them about it, she consults the Oracle Joey, and then quotes her to reassure the new girl! It's one of the things that makes the triplets always seem rather younger than they are, the way they quote Mamma at total strangers and expect them to be impressed - it's the kind of thing we probably all did when we were small children: 'Anyway, my Mummy says so! So there!' But - as the adult Joey is never wrong - I suppose for EBD she is the Encyclopedia Britannica...

Author:	LizzieC [ Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Sunglass wrote: (Unless the San doctors did space travel illnesses, as well as TB, back and head injuries, rheumatoid arthritis, and obstetrics!) Perhaps they travelled in space and the san parted in the middle and a rocket launched from the middle, a la Thunderbirds!

Author:	Sunglass [ Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Joey and Co in Tirol
Actually, I had an elaborate fantasy for a minute there - the San was really a secret space station that was only pretending to be a sanatorium because it was handy to be in a remote place at altitude with lots of scientists and equipment - and I thought that could be why Professor Richardson came to live on the Tiern Pass. Before I remembered the San is in a different country by the time of Richenda, which scuppered my theory. Which is a shame, because EBDisms like people somehow getting younger could be explained as Wrinkles in the Space-Time Continuum. And I really like the idea of Jem and Jack being Thunderbirds. (And the Robin being an alien robot, which explains all that 'instant obedience'.)