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Books: The Chalet School and the Island
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Author:  jennifer [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Books: The Chalet School and the Island
This is the second of the transition books, moving the school from the war years to its later incarnation, and taking place a term after Three Go. A synopses can be found here

Why do you think EBD moved the school at this point? How does St Briaval's compare to the previous setting? What do you think of the new girls; Annis, Dickie and Cherry, and Annis and Cherry's respective rebellions? What about the sudden reappearance of Joey?

Any other comments or thoughts on the book?
Author:  Rosalin [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:58 pm ]
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I like the island setting, I think it's another refreshing change for the school. It's good that the school didn't stay there for too long because the isolation and the problem of being cut off due to storms would have been a bit limiting after a while but it's nice for a short time.

I like the girls we meet in this book as well. Dickie is a refreshing, sensible girl and I like what we see of her with her family. I'm not convinced by her ending up as second prefect so quickly, but that's another book. Annis and Cherry's problems also seem real and the way the school help's Cherry works quite naturally for me. I like Kester Bellever as well. He's a bit different (ie not a doctor) and for me one of the more interesting male characters. Come to think of it surely one of the mistresses could have snared him :lol:

The thing that stops this being one of my favourites is Joey. Plas Gwyn having trouble with its foundations at this precise moment is far too contrived. I've got a picture in my head of Joey, dressed all in black, breaking into the office of whoever inspected the foundations and swapping over some reports to ensure that Plas Gwyn would need extensive repairs :wink: I think it would have been good for her to become a little more distanced from the school at this point. Also Joey being the one to overhear the final scene about Annis is too contrived. What ever she says it sounds like eavesdropping to me.

Overall a good book but it would have been better without Joey.
Author:  JayB [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:57 pm ]
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I like Dickie too. I wish she'd joined the school a year or two before, then she could have been Head Girl instead of Peggy. I like Commander Christy, too - one of EBD's less authoritarian males.

It was shortly after this that Joey was packed off to Canada, wasn't it, so perhaps EBD or her editor thought it was time to get her off the scene. I wonder why she was brought back? She could have been virtually written out as Madge was, with the focus moving to the triplets when they were old enough.

The eavesdropping was bad enough, but then Joey has to go and broadcast it as a tasty bit of gossip. It would be one thing to tell Hilda and Nell privately, with Captain Lovell's permission, but she tells the Christys, whom she hardly knows, and who have no possible need to know.
Author:  Alison H [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:58 pm ]
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I like this book but agree that Joey's presence is contrived and could have been done without! It's good to see some male characters - Kester Bellever and Michael Christy - who are neither doctors, servants/domestic staff, teachers nor related to the "clan", and although I'm not really interested in all the bird talk it makes the book a bit different.

I'm sorry that we don't see more of Cherry Christy later on: she's an interesting character. And at this stage Mary-Lou's gang, who were her age, were still a really nice bunch rather than the "we rule the school" gang that they turn into in Switzerland. Tom Gay comes across very well too.

I'm also sorry that EBD seems to've decided at this point that she wanted Madge and Jem out of the picture: they feature very little from this book onwards, and when they do they just come across as bad parents/ "Sir James and Lady Russell" rather than being the people that they were earlier on (hope that that makes sense!). It doesn't really affect this book, but just in general I wish that Madge hadn't been shoved off scene and given a personality transplant the way she was, and this was where it started.
Author:  evelyn38 [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:27 pm ]
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I agree with much of what has been said - I've always enjoyed this book; I like the Christy family and both Dickie and Cherry are interesting additions.

I presume EBD moved the school at this point because she had run out of things to do at Plas Howell, and wanted the school near some water again, so she could write about swimming and boats and regattas, now she had no snow and/or mountains to set scenes in. The danger of cliffs and sea provide a setting for adventures which was rather lacking at Plas Howell, particularly now the war was over.

All in all therefore, I think the drains were a convenient excuse to move to a more exciting setting. Perfectly plausible, but rather weakened by Joey's suddenly collapsing foundations. The unlikely coincidence makes one think that a small unreported earthquake must have occurred in Howells village.
Author:  Kathy_S [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:18 pm ]
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Joey hasn't actually moved in Island, just comes to visit a few times. There may be foreshadowing about the foundations in Jack's annoying hints that she may be able to be closer to the school next term, but no further detail is given. Overall, I'd say her presence at the beginning and end of the book is meant to tie it thoroughly into the series.

Good hypothesis about an earthquake!
*has earthquakes on the brain, after our experience Friday*

Jack's whole handling of the Canada deal seems a bit high-handed. Imagine, his arranging that she gets extra children for the duration, with no prior discussion whatsoever. Doubtless she'd have agreed, but really! At least there's an hour's "discussion" about whether Margot should go.
Author:  LauraMcC [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:15 pm ]
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I really liked this book too; like others have said, the change of scene is refreshing, and I like the descriptions of the water sports. But what I don't like, and what rather spoils it for me, is the inclusion of people like Jacynth and Gay, and the rest of the prefects. I really like those characters, but to me they fit in much more with the armiford books. They are far too old to be still at school, and I know that this was just an EBDism, and she probably just wanted to have some familiar faces amid the upheavel, but IMO it would have been better to have them leave, and have a completely fresh bunch of prefects, to tie in with the fresh start. "Island" always seems the odd one out of the St Briavel's books for me, for that very reason! Not really a criticism, just an observation.

Also, I did feel a little sorry for Margot and Josette. They did go to Canada for their health, but if I had been them, I would have felt annoyed about having to miss out so much of the island fun, and to only get a term of it in "Changes". Having said that, they did get to ski in Canada!

[/i]
Author:  miss_maeve [ Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:35 pm ]
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I never read the whole series in order, but rather in a as-you-find-them fashion. 'Island' was the fifth CS book I read, and I thoroughly disliked Jo from here on, after the eavesdropping. There is no other way to describe it, and made what was (for me, at that point) a really lovely character into somebody who seemed quite dishonest and not a nice person to know.
Author:  JB [ Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:00 pm ]
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This isn't a book I like very much now but i'm not sure why. It was one of the earlier titles I read. I think it's the second part of the transition which was started with Three Go (which I read a while after this one). I prefer the other books on St Briavels which I think have much better plots.

During the war, the location of the books didn't matter as much - there aren't expeditions and at the beginning of Goes to It, it mentioned several times that Armshire is a safe area.

I don't mind Joey's appearance but dislike the eavesdropping and the way she gloats when she's telling the story.

I like the Christies. It's a shame they disappeared.

Annis is a character I don't think about. She's occasionally namechecked later in the series but that's it. It's rare for a pupil to have a starring role then to become, in effect, an extra.
Author:  Jennie [ Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that Jo's move to Carnbach was overly contrived, and the way she treated the poor sixth Formers over their History lessons was disgraceful.

And I have previously in another thread, said how I feel about the ending of this book being devoted to Jo, and getting the interview between Annis' father and aunt transmitted through her.

I really did not need to know how tired she was and all the circumstances of her visit to Penny Rest, and as for being behind a curtain, well, when she heard them she was surely capable of coughing loudly. She had enough practice in the early books, so she ought to have been able to produce a loud cough.

The most distasteful thing about it was the way she made it a public retelling, in front of people who were not involved and who had no right to know about Annis' family's private business.
Author:  jennifer [ Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:28 am ]
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I think that the English setting was necessary during the war years, and in a sense the war substituted for things like expeditions and an exciting environment from a plot perspective. Going back to Austria was politically not possible, so EBD did her best. I think the Island works well as a setting, with the boating, birds, pirate hoards and so on, but was probably running down when the move to Switzerland was made. Being on an Island was limited in that they didn't have much external setting to interact with, and there are only so many visits to bird sanctuaries you can do. I'm surprised we didn't see more of the monastery though.

I also find Joey's gossiping distasteful - not so much overhearing in the first place, as it was an awkward situation, but the fact that she took it upon herself to gossip about someone else's dirty laundry to her friends, solely for a good story and the attention it got her. Given how severely eavesdroppers are treated among the students, when the reaction is purely in the heat of the moment, it does make her look petty and nasty.

I thoroughly like Dickie Christy as a character, and wish she could have been head girl instead of the much weaker Peggy. The way she interacts with the other school girls, and her responsibility towards her family are lovely - actually, Clem and Dickie are the two girls I would really have like to see as headgirls. Annis is interesting too, in that she's a badly behaved rebel, but you can really sympathize with her reasons. It's not that she's been badly brought up, but she's reacting to her aunt's shabby treatment of her, and her grief for her father. Her form's concern about her is nice to watch too, and much more realistic than the later OOAOML style. They're worried about her, and sympathize with what they know of their situation, but aren't sure quite what to do.
Author:  Lesley [ Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:48 am ]
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As a writer I can see why EBD wrote the scenes about Penny Rest - she needed to find a way to tell her audience about the row between Annis' Father and 'Aunt'. But I don't think she really thought it through properly. I agree that it doesn't show Joey in a very good light - she couldn't help overhearing, true, though surely the most polite thing to do would have been to immediately make her presence known and leave the alcove? - and there was no need for her to then pass on that information to others - especially as it was to people that she had only known for some five months. It seems as though EBD had a mental block about how Joey's behaviour would be seen - I wonder if any of the girls reading it appreciated that Joey had broken some cardinal rules?

As to the book - the move was probably necessary in terms of plot - though it would be better if there had been some inkling of trouble in previous books (looking forward to the fill-in there!) and Annis' troubles were sympathetically drawn. I like how she was able to defy everyone and had obviously not been reformed in just one term. Interesting that she didn't feel able to confide in the Staff and that she was surprised that Miss Annersley didn't automatically expel her - I suppose her only contact with the Head had been on matters of discipline. And I liked Kester Bellever's comment near the end - wonder if EBD was half toying with a romance between him and Hilda? :lol: :wink:

Margot going to Canada came as a bit of a bolt out of the blue as, in previous books, she had not come across as particularly delicate or ill - there had been talk about how she had been sickly as a baby but nothing more. The scenes between Joey and Jack were good and it's nice to see that Jack actually had to persuade Joey, he didn't just issue a decree. And one scene in the book that I did enjoy was Impertinent Questions!
Author:  Laura V [ Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:03 pm ]
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This is one of my least favourite CS books. I don't like the island setting, or the new characters introduced ie. Annis and Dickie. And I always find myself skipping large chunks of the book whenever birds are mentioned!
Author:  Caroline [ Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:21 pm ]
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I've always rather liked Island... I think it sets up the St Briavels part of the series quite nicely, whilst still having plenty of links to Plas Howell.

Reading what you've all said about Joey's earwigging, I know you're all right and that it's hypocritical / vulgar / inappropriate / Terribly Bad Form of Jo / EBD etc. etc. but somehow, when I read the book, I never notice that - I'm just thrilled to know that the Awful Aunt is getting her comeuppance. And, honestly, other than have someone from the school tear her off a strip (which would be even more inappropriate), I can't quite see how else EBD could have given us the satisfaction... Not so vividly, anyway.

I really like the way the Christies fit in so well with the school. Dickie is a breath of fresh air in an otherwise rather staid group of seniors, Cherry blends well with the middles and you can start to see the parents becoming friends with the staff / Maynards - building up to a few books later when Hilda and Rosalie are bantering with Michael Christie about notice to quit or he is telling them the full story of the treasure etc. It seems all sides recognised kindred spirits in each other, and the presence of the Christies bonds the school into their environment in a way you don't get in Switzerland, and don't really get at Plas Howell either, for all than Gwensi is a pupil and various of the family retainers are still around. OK, it's not quite Tyrol-like, but it's better than anywhere else IMO.

I agree about the prefects - it's insane that Gay should still be at the school, she must be about 20! And also insane that Jacynth is now in the same year as Gay - the vast EBDisms about their ages and longevity at the school always bugged me. And I always wondered why there was such a big age gap between them and Peggy and Co - surely there must have been a school year in between the two groups?

I love the setting, too - I wish EBD had kept them on the island longer, really - I'm sure there was more scope for boating accidents, cliff top rescues, caves, swimming accidents, sea mists etc.

So, all in all, not a special favourite but rather nice all the same, and a nice lead in to the St Briavels years.
Author:  jennifer [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:07 am ]
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Regarding the seniors and EBDisms

There's a null spot at about the age that should be senior prefects in this year, without a good group of well established characters.

In chronology, you have a year that has Beth, Gwensi and Daisy and a few minor characters. Then in the next year, you've got Gillian, Gay, Frances Coleman, Mollie Avery, Janet Scott and Meg Farrant. Both of these groups should have graduated by now, but some are still around.

The year below (what should be Upper Sixth) you have Jean Mackay, Kathie Robertson and Dorcas Brownlow (the latter of whom disappears by now), plus a few characters who are only mentioned once - so no strong group. The Lower Sixth year has Anthea Barnett, Jean MacGregor, and Eilunedd Vaughn. Dickie is new. Jacynth would fit in this group by her form in Gay from China, but in an older group by age.

In Peggy's year, the one after that, you have some reasonably well known characters - Peggy, Hester Layng, Judy Rose, Joan Sandys, Daphne Russell, but still not many.

Then when you get to Bride's year and the years below, we have a large group of well established characters, so the prefect choices are characters we recognize.

If EBD hadn't kept some girls back to fill out the prefect roster, we would have had mainly new characters as prefects.
Author:  JB [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:15 am ]
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Thanks for this, Jennifer. I was trying to puzzle this out in my head but you've done it so much better.

The Plas Howell books don't talk about fourth formers much, once the old girls from Tyrol have moved on. They're unusual within the series with their focus on younger girls ie Bride and her friends.
Author:  Caroline [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:47 am ]
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jennifer wrote:
If EBD hadn't kept some girls back to fill out the prefect roster, we would have had mainly new characters as prefects.


Thanks for the breakdown, Jennifer - that made it all really clear.

I wonder now if EBD left such a big gap between Tom / Rosalie and Three Go / Island because of the lack of well-known characters, or whether the gap resulted in the lack of characters... Hmmm, I suspect the latter...

I would have loved to see characters like Lavender Leigh (promoted to her rightful year), Natalie Mensch, Anthea Barnett, Peggy Burnett, Dorcas etc. as prefects under Jacynth - those who are a little older than Peggy Bettany etc. but a little younger than Gay and Gill - but that's about the limit in terms of interesting characters; the rest are just names.
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:59 am ]
Post subject: 
The "gap" problem happens again in Switzerland: Josette and Maeve are both fairly colourless Head Girls and we hear very little about them and the other prefects at the time (and Ros Lilley of course disappears!), and you just get the feeling that all they're doing is keeping Mary-Lou's seat warm for Len. It's a shame: it would've been good to've seen some of the others - Jo Scott in particular - in action as prefects.
Author:  Caroline [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:32 am ]
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So true.

And much as I, personally, like both Mary-Lou and Len and their respective peer groups, EBD seemed rather wedded to them in the Swiss years, and focussed more than a fair share of books on them, at the expense of developing other distinct peer groups.

And eventually, the two years in between ML's headship and Len's headship end up being made up of members-of-Mary-Lou's-circle-who-are-a-bit-younger-than-her (Josette, Clare Kennedy, Barbara, Prunella, Jo Scott, Christine and Catriona etc.) and then members-of-Len's-circle-who-are-a-bit-older-than-her (Jo Scott and Prunella again, Rosamund, Ted, Richenda, Heather Clayton).
Author:  jennifer [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:54 pm ]
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I actually find that in the later Swiss books EBD spreads the plotlines around to too many groups of girls, both in individual books and in general. As a result, most of the characters are not well fleshed out, particularly when compared with groups like Bride and Co and Mary-Lou's Gang and the triplets and their friends.
Author:  Elle [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:41 pm ]
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Jennie wrote:
I think that Jo's move to Carnbach was overly contrived, and the way she treated the poor sixth Formers over their History lessons was disgraceful.


I havn't read this one for a while. What exactly did she do?
Author:  Fiona Mc [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Elle wrote:
Jennie wrote:
I think that Jo's move to Carnbach was overly contrived, and the way she treated the poor sixth Formers over their History lessons was disgraceful.


I havn't read this one for a while. What exactly did she do?


I think this happened more in Peggy when Joey took over from Mary Burnett as the History Mistress for the Sixth. She would teach whenever she happened to be free, not just during set lesson hours. Her excuse was poor weather with travelling to and from the island. It drovethe sixth mad as they couldn't get on with their own work

This is actuallythe only book where I did like Dickie as a character. I think after this she does go a it downhill and her attitude towards German was pretty ordinary at times. I'm sure in Oberland that Natalie Mensch must have felt completely isolated being the only German speaker, in such an anti Germn speaking group of which Dikie seemed the main compliner about it! I would never have chosen her as Head Girl over Peggy. Peggy wasn't too bad but Nita Eltringham would have been my pick.

I also loved seeing Bride, Tom and co in the Fifth forms and their concern about Annis is really lovely and not too OTT. I wish the Ozanne twinshad still been included as part of their group. And I also loved the impertinentquestions scene and seeing more of Gay and Jacynth even though it puts the timeline out
Author:  Sunglass [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:49 pm ]
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The thing I'm most impressed by in Island is the bit where Annis is shipwrecked. Given that I generally roll my eyes at elements of EBD's style (while remaining a CS addict, obviously!), I find the part where she realises she's being pulled out to sea by the current, and then has to climb a cliff with the rising tide behind her, absolutely chilling. And I've always found her obsession with hanging onto the snapped-off oar absolutely psychologically realistic. Plus I like the scene where she wakes up in Kester Bellever's hut, and suddenly we're in an Enid Blyton adventure story, with Cherry Christie as a kind of juvenile chaperone.

I figure that the reason Kester Bellever wasn't married off to a CS mistress or OG (possibly Annis, given EBD's predilection for throwing people together in accident/emergency scenarios, and making CS girls catch the eye of a much older man!) is because he's simply not a good enough catch. Doctor - yes. Duck sanctuary man, even though famous - no way. Can't imagine a CS girl or mistress hacking it in a hut on Ventnor!
Author:  evelyn38 [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sunglass wrote:
The thing I'm most impressed by in Island is the bit where Annis is shipwrecked. ,!


I think that is a good point. Its hard (after all this time) to think back to the first time I read these, but I am fairly sure that I found this passge gripping and genuinely scary in a way that the "adventures" in Eustacia and CS (Grizel on the Tiernjoch) were n't.
Author:  Maeve [ Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:23 am ]
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Sunglass wrote:
Quote:
Can't imagine a CS girl or mistress hacking it in a hut on Ventnor!

Not even one of the athletic games mistresses? (I suppose they might have found it hard to keep up that trig appearance :) )

Island has aways been one of my favourites and I wish Annis hadn't disappeared as a real character after ths book. The scenes between her and Tom's gang, and with Cherry after Annis has been rescued, are really good, I think.

I also think the descriptions of the school's visits to the bird sanctuary come off as being much more real and interesting and less, "I've just copied this out of the guidebook" than say the half-term expeditions in so many of the books, especially the Swiss ones.
Author:  Ela [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:21 pm ]
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Maeve wrote:
I also think the descriptions of the school's visits to the bird sanctuary come off as being much more real and interesting and less, "I've just copied this out of the guidebook" than say the half-term expeditions in so many of the books, especially the Swiss ones.

Thoroughly agree - I've just read the transcripts of Island and Problem, and the contrast between the expedition to St Brandon Mawr in the former and Basle in the latter is very marked.

I really liked this book, having just now read it for the first time. I thought Annis' rebellion was very realistic, and her aunt was definitely unpleasant to her (even before we had the revelations about her trying to feather her own nest at Annis' expense). Mrs Bain was definitely selfish and didn't care that Annis might have some feelings or was entitled to some consideration. Also, the way she's described as "moving on" from guest house to guest house suggests that she's also a quarrelsome, unpleasant person to everyone (reminded of Mrs Scorrier in Heyer's Venetia). Like others, I thought that Annis' runaway attempt was very realistic, and her sense of terror well-conveyed: I think it helps reading the unabridged version.

I also liked EBD's treatment of Cherry, and her relationship with Bellever, though I did rather wince at her being "rushed" by a gang of Juniors when Dickie had specifically requested that the pupils not trouble her sister. Dickie's a little too good to be true, though - not showing the least sign of shyness when the school arrives, and talking freely in front of girls she'd just met - and as for all the housework and mending she does when her stepmother is ill...

Then the scene where Joey is recounting the showdown between Captain Lovell and Mrs Bain... To be honest, if I'd notread all these comments, I might not have noticed Joey's bad behaviour, given that one wants to hear Annis' aunt given her come-uppance. But she deliberately eavesdropped (and makes almost no excuse for it), and only draws attention to her presence when the two start discussing financial matters. And then she tears a strip off Mrs Bain on her own account - it was completely inapproriate for her to rebuke a stranger like that. And as for telling the Christys about it afterwards... what EBD could have done with more propriety was to have had Joey recount her tale to Miss Annersley (and be told off for eavesdropping!), who were more nearly concerned.

It was nice for Annis to have her father return, of course, but I did think it was rather too coincidental to be true...

I enjoyed the bird stuff, too, and the boating - but did anyone else find it unbelievable that Mary-Lou, a Junior, beat Tom Gay, a tall, strong, Fifth-former, in a swimming race?
Author:  abbeybufo [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:20 pm ]
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The device of a small 'lithe' junior beating a larger senior at swimming was used by EJO in 1914 (Schoolgirls and Scouts) :lol:
Author:  Katherine [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:32 pm ]
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You know if it was anyone else I wouldn’t believe it, but it’s not implausible; it’s just Mary-Lou.
Author:  Kate [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:09 pm ]
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Well, 'sources' are currently alleging that members of the Chinese women's gymnastics team are underage which is illegal for safety reasons but also biased the competition as younger gymnasts have advantages (height/weight/lack of fear). So maybe it's something similar...? :D
Author:  Lesley [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:12 pm ]
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Wasn't the race staggered/handicapped though? So Tom had much further to swim and they therefore started pretty much on an even playing field?
Author:  moiser30 [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:50 pm ]
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I like the small island better than the swizz years as mary-lou and her gang act like children in these book like the battle-royal they had in this book, but when they go to swizaland they start acting to grown-up for my liking.
Author:  Katherine [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lesley wrote:
Wasn't the race staggered/handicapped though? So Tom had much further to swim and they therefore started pretty much on an even playing field?

I think you're right.
Author:  KB [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lesley wrote:
Wasn't the race staggered/handicapped though? So Tom had much further to swim and they therefore started pretty much on an even playing field?


You're right:

Quote:
When the meal was over, people sat about in groups and talked. Jo went off with some of the Staff, and Jack Maynard had a few words with the Heads, in which he stressed his opinion that the open race was too much for such small girls as Mary-Lou.
“Well, I was doubtful when she entered,” Miss Wilson acknowledged, “but she’s a good little swimmer, and she had a big lead to start with. Besides, if you really want to know, none of us expected her to keep up till the end as she did. I don’t think it’s hurt her. Matey grabbed her the first chance she had, and gave her a quick overhaul, and she says she seems all right. They’ll go to bed at seven, and to-morrow’s Sunday, so they’ll have a very quiet day. If Mary-Lou seems at all over-done, Matey will keep her lying down most of the day in one of the hammocks. But it really was just at the last that she went all out. I was watching her carefully from the guard-boat, and I could see she was well within herself until then. Matey says the monkey told her that Clem Barras had warned her to go on quietly till she heard a yell from Clem herself, and then she was to spurt like mad—which she certainly did.”
Author:  Ela [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:44 am ]
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Ah, thanks - I obviously didn't read carefully enough!
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