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#1: Women: Headmistresses Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:36 am
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Let's talk about Headmistresses - eg Madge, Therese, Hilda, Miss Bubb, Nancy etc. Did EBD have just one ideal headmistress, or many? Is there one particular headmistress that stands out for you as the best, or are their situations and context so different that it is impossible to compare? Feel free to bring in headmistresses from non-CS EBD books, or to use other GO headmistresses for comparative purposes.

Please join in! Very Happy

#2: Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:54 pm
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I don't think you can compare. I have a bit of a soft spot for Mademoiselle and was always sorry not to see more of her. I think they each suited the time and all were beloved by the girls and rarely is there a time that any of them really show a bad side to themselves except Miss Bubb who was a disaster waiting to happen with her desire to take over the school. I think they all made questionable decisions at times but they also inspired some girls to greater reformation think Madge with Grizel, Mademoiselle with Corney and Hilda with a plethora of them Diana, Joan etc.

#3: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:12 pm
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The circumstances that they working under were very different: Madge and Mlle were the owners as well as the heads, whereas the others were employees, and in the early days Madge relied quite a lot on the friendship and local knowledge of pupils' parents which never really applied in Hilda's time as head. Also, Miss Bubb, Hilda and Nancy all had degrees and considerable teaching experience, whereas Madge and Mlle were much more the old-fashioned type "dame school" heads; and by the time Hilda became head the "character" of the school was already formed whereas Madge kind of got the chance to get things running as she wanted them - if that makes sense.

I agree that they suited the time - I can't imagine Mlle or even Madge managing well when the school got bigger. I would really have liked to see Madge be head for longer, though, and I'd like to've seen more of Mlle as head - especially her relationship with Cornelia.

I actually felt a bit sorry for Miss Bubb because some of the "peculiarities" of the CS would've driven anyone not used to them mad. For example, she told Gay to stay inside as a punishment for misbehaviour, and then Jack Maynard stuck his nose in and said that she had to let Gay go outside, because the way he saw it was that what the doctors from the San said went. It must be very difficult to go somewhere as a temp but at the same time be expected to be a leader.

I really need to learn not to waffle so much Embarassed

#4: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:32 pm
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I think Madge is probably my favorite - she has a good deal of personal charm, and leads through affection more than authority. She is very young for the position, but still manages to exert her authority without going tin-god about it all. She's also the one who really sets school policies, and deals with establishing all the traditions. At the same time, we get a good sense of her personality, through her time with Joey and the Robin, and her parenting of people like Juliet and Grizel. I agree that her style of headmistressing would be less effective as the school became larger and she didn't know all the girls and their parents personally.

Mademoiselle - well, she's sort of dull. It's made very clear that while the girls respect and obey her, and have an affection for her, they don't give her the same adoration that Madge gets even after she leaves the school. We never see much of her as anything other than an indisctinct figure in her office.

My second favorite would be Miss Wilson. I get a good, vivid picture of her. She's intelligent and has a good sense of humour, but doesn't suffer fools gladly and has a crisp, snappy demeanor. She seems more real and personable to me than Miss Annersley ever does.

Miss Annersley I find rather one dimensional - she's almost a caricature of the perfect headmistress - wise, patient, good tempered, kind but firm, able to reform the most errant school girl with a few well chosen words, understanding, a wielder of cutting sarcasm, a beautiful, rich voice and keen eyesight, always available to the girls. At the same time she seems remote - I don't get a sense of what she would be like when she's not being headmistress, or whether she has doubts or normal human frailties.

Miss Bubb - I think anyone brought in to run the school from outside would have had problems. Having your discipline over turned by random doctors, Joey popping in to let you know how the school should be run, and all the various Chalet School peculiarities. However, she just didn't seem to understand the concept of 'temporary head, until the real head recovers from injuries', and was treating the post like it was permanent, and like she had the right to make school policies from teh beginning. She'd probably have been fine in a more formal day school, where the girls left at the end of the school day.

And don't forget Miss Wilmot... Although we didn't really see her being head all that much, what with Matron and Joey making sure she did things the right way.

#5: Author: Lottie, Location: Humphrey's Corner

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:44 pm
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jennifer wrote:

Miss Annersley I find rather one dimensional - she's almost a caricature of the perfect headmistress - wise, patient, good tempered, kind but firm, able to reform the most errant school girl with a few well chosen words, understanding, a wielder of cutting sarcasm, a beautiful, rich voice and keen eyesight, always available to the girls.

Is this an example of EBD's wishful thinking? Do we know what she was like as a headmistress of The Margaret Roper School in Hereford?

#6: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:44 pm
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I like the fact we see the Heads get involved in school life, either through teaching or their involvement in outside activities (e.g. half term trips). In Enid Blyton's school series the Head's are distant figures, rarely involved in school life other than greeting pupils and being there as theultimate authoritarian figure. One thing that struck me in Malory Towers was Miss Grayling asking Darrell to talk sense into Gwendoline when she wants to go to Switzerland because she would not be able to get through to her. Having written that, I realise that happens a lot in the CS, because peers are more approachable than adults! But in the Malory Towers series the Head doesn't take an active role in getting to know pupils.

As for the heads within the CS, I agree with comments above. Each suits their own time, and when I read Challenge I wondered if EBD was trying to set Nancy up as the future head. I thought her portrayal of headship was very realistic in that book - it's a job that not a lot of people want!

#7: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:33 pm
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Madge was the Head who started the school, but of her own admission says it was to provide a home for Joey in a healthy spot. It was a bit of an adventure for an upper middle class girl and it was possibly a relief to her when she reverted to the role she was raised for when she married Jem. I never liked her much; she relished the adoration of the girls and the admiration of Herrs Braun, Marani and Mensch. She could be very snappy, 'frowned blackly' etc and actually asked Matron Webb to call her Madame which seems cringeworth to me.
Mdle I think was there as a foil to Madge - less attractive and charming, but there was a steady kindness about her which I liked. I would have liked to have seen her mothering Corney. She coped very well as Head.
Hilda - well there is no doubt that she was the Head and had all the qualities needed. It was her career and her life and I can't think of the Chalet School without her.
Nell made a good co-Head and it's a pity that that didn't last longer. Finishing school doesn't seem right for her.
Miss Bubb was an awful woman who saw being Head as a business venture and a way to line her own purse.
Nancy would carry on the traditions as Hilda did I think.

#8: Author: Katarzyna, Location: North West England

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:05 pm
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(ok, cos i am sad and work this afternoon was boring - this is what i came up with after reading Roisin's intro - obviously my thoughts and mental meanderings!)

Madge Bettany - for me she is as a person she a caring young woman who whilst having no real academic background so far as teaching is concerned starts the school primarily as a way of keeping herself and her younger sister together. She is more or less thrown into the headship as it's her school - she has no formal training for this, or in fact any real ideas about running a school or anything over and above her own small household. Rather unrealistically she makes no real mistakes until the appointment of the matron (beasley?) in Princess. You can't count the Juliet incident as that could hardly be something she could have forseen (the majority of parents not abandonging their offspring). She does seem to take her mistresses - particularly mollie maynard and Mlle into her confidence on most matters.

Mlle Le Pattre (scuse the spelling) - she is a much older woman than Madge, has some teaching background - though as far as I can recall this is from a governess situation rather than in a formal school setting. She is referred to alternatively as a stern disciplinarian and a caring mother type figure - for me she is really neither, she seems more of a paper pushing head than a hands on head as i see the later heads becoming. She seems to give up most of her teaching to take on the heads duties - though at this time there is no secretary and only a limited staff. I often wonder if she really wanted to be head or was quite happy to be the silent partner in the business and just keep on teaching and looking after her neices.

Hilda Annersley - ok, so she has become the character most commonly percieved as the head of the CS probably because she was there the longest in post - she starts quite young as a mistress and grows as the series goes along, her character changing with it. She's the first head with a truly academic background and university education. Although she is a very stable character you do see glimpses into her past throughout the series, learning that she wasn't always the perfect head she comes accross as. At times she is a little too perfect, her decisions are always right, she doesn't make the mistakes that Madge does - but then again by that time the CS is an LLP and the Board must make final decisions about staffing.

Nell Wilson - I will freely admit Nell is one of my favourite characters and she is really the only "science" teacher to progress in the school internally - i don't know whether EBD had a something against science teachers but her characterisation of Nell, and later Joey's of the science teacher in her first book, makes me wonder if she knew a science teacher of the same type. To me Nell is a much more rounded and real character than Hilda - but the pair of them together work well particularly nell's sarcasm against Hilda's calm authority. LIke Hilda she has the educational background but is in my opinon the more mature of the two, despite her occasional lapses - which to me make her more human. I often wander what would have happened with their friendship if Con Stewart hadn't moved overseas.

Nancy Wilmot - I can't ever see Nancy as "head" as such. SHe is very much a pro-tem, this is it for one term we've no one else lets see how you get on kind of thing. She isn't allowed to really run the school - certainly she has no chance to put forward her own ideas and is subject to the bullying interference of Joey.

Other heads worth a mention!!

Miss Browne - aka the faun. In the first description of her you get someone who is almost the complete opposite of Madge - i think the contrast between the two women is just far too far apart. I don't know if she was meant to be the orignal "anti -head" for want of a better term, to show that the CS way of doing things was right.

Miss Bubb - ok, she's painted as a hard nosed academic trying to mount a take over bid on a young naive staff. Now, personally, in her position, i can't see that she ever had a chance.

Miss Holroyd - despite the similarity of the circumstances - new school near the cs run by english woman etc i don't think she is anything like Miss Browne though we never really see Miss Holroyd as a teacher let alone a head. The impression we are given is that she knows her staff and her pupils (and her cat) but that's about it.

Blimey, i can't half waffle at times!

#9: Author: dorian, Location: Dublin

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:07 pm
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Mel wrote:

Madge ... actually asked Matron Webb to call her Madame which seems cringeworth to me.

That seems a little unfair, to me at least.

I always saw it as Matron Webb not rendering Madge proper respect as Headmistress and her employer, and Madge insisting on the title as a way of demonstrating that she would not stand for disrespect from her employee.

#10: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:21 pm
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Miss Bubb: much maligned character. Drabble, anyone? Wink

#11: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:23 pm
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Plus it would be bad for discipline generally if the girls saw a member of staff not referring to Madge by the accepted title. After all, even Joey isn't supposed to use Madge's name in front of the other girls.

#12: Author: Maisie, Location: St Albans, Herts, UK

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:37 pm
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I never understood why Madge was called 'Madame'. She was not French, and the school was not in France. Wouldn't she have either been whetever headmistresses were called in England ('Miss'?) or else Fraulein?

I too wish we had seen more of Madge's tenure but felt some of it almost crossed the line of familiarity - the annual birthday celebrations even after she has left seem somehow uncomfortable - we rarely hear of any girl's birthdays, or any staff come to that....

I enjoyed the whole Miss Bubb followed by Miss Wilson the saviour period, there is nothing quite like a baddy being defeated Smile

#13: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:20 pm
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Sorry but I always saw the title 'Madame' as a title of love and respect, therefore not a title you can actually demand from other people. Miss Bettany is surely acceptable?

#14: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:51 pm
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Maisie wrote:

I never understood why Madge was called 'Madame'. She was not French, and the school was not in France. Wouldn't she have either been whetever headmistresses were called in England ('Miss'?) or else Fraulein?

Fraulein is actually seen as a rather demeaning term. It implies youth and ignorance, and is only really used with girls until their mid- to late-teens. Anyone who looks even vaguely 18 is always Frau such-and-such. It may have been somewhat different at the time when the books are set, but there is still the implication of youth and possible ignorance that would not be good for a Headmistress.

#15: Author: Pado, Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:00 am
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I see Madge as being really ahead of her time in terms of being an assertive independent young woman - although I could do with fewer appeals to Herr Braun and various male characters to get a "man's opinion" on matters. But still, given the time period...

Even as an adult, I stand in awe of Miss Annersley. I occasionally tried to reproduce one of those sessions in the study where my few well-chosen words of disappointment would produce an immediate turn-around in my recalcitrant daughters.... sadly, it never worked.

#16: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:04 am
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Ooh, I forgot about Miss Browne - she was an idiot. She looked down on foreigners, trashed talked the Chalet school in front of her Head Girl, had trouble with authority over mischevious girls and barely trusted her prefects to take prep. She moved the whole school over to Austria as an experiment, but didn't bother to research the situation well enough to realise that there was a better established shool already there. Then she trashed the Chalet school methods (Frenchwomen, you know) in front of one of it's students and her family - poor form even if it wasn't the sister and brother of the founder - and got huffy when they didn't react happily to her tactics.

Then she got some money and dumped the whole thing in Madge's lap. I wonder what would have happened if the Chalet school had said "sorry, we don't have room to take in 50 girls at a few months notice" - would she have just stopped the school?

Miss Bubb at least had the strength of her convictions and reasons for them.

#17: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:30 am
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I think the change of Fräulein from denoting marital status to denoting age is more recent than Madge's title of Madame. I'm not sure when the shift in usage began, but can remember a German colleague celebrating when the change was formalized in the seventies.

I'd agree that Matron Webb meant to show disrespect for the school's customs and for Madge by not using "Madame." It's in the context of school customs -- never locking girls in -- that Miss Maynard first points out that "Madame" is the appropriate form of address. Matron Webb clearly ignores that, as it's twenty pages later that Madge officially "notices." Interestingly, Miss Bubb also declines to use "Madame," consistently choosing "Lady Russell," despite continued use of Madame by the rest of the staff.

As to the "why" of Madge becoming Madame, I wonder if it wasn't partly because Joey would find it a little odd calling her sister by what was also her own name. On the other hand, "Madame" also shows up as the title for heads of some fictional ballet schools, so perhaps it was a common term of respect?

#18: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:34 am
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Mel wrote:

Sorry but I always saw the title 'Madame' as a title of love and respect, therefore not a title you can actually demand from other people. Miss Bettany is surely acceptable?

Me, too - I thought (like the curtsey when seeing the Head in her study) that the title of Madame had grown up organically as a mark of respect / affection from the Austrian girls to their Head, and was then adopted by the rest of the school, including the staff. Really, if you think about it, it's almost a nickname (like "the Faun" or "the Abbess") - just one that is ultra-respectful and therefore became common usage.

If Mademoiselle or Maynie or someone had approached Matron Webb and suggested she use the accepted title for Madge, that would be fine, but I don't see it as something that Madge can insist on herself - it's not a job title, after all.

#19: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:46 am
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Mel wrote:

Nell made a good co-Head and it's a pity that that didn't last longer. Finishing school doesn't seem right for her.

Absolutely! It should have been the other way around - Hilda go to head the finishing school, where she could teach them her ways with twinsets to her heart's content, and Nell to stay with the unruly middles, having lots of fun experimenting in the labs!

#20: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:39 am
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It's an interesting idea, although I'm not sure Bill has the temperament to be Head on a long term basis and I think she'd chafe at all the admin and office-based stuff. She strikes me as a very up-and-doing individual.

It was one of the thing I liked least about A CS Headmistress (the GGB version) that we didn't actually see much of Bill as Head and how she copes with Hilda's absence and running the school - considering the title, the whole book was very non-Bill centric.

#21: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:54 am
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Caroline wrote:

It's an interesting idea, although I'm not sure Bill has the temperament to be Head on a long term basis and I think she'd chafe at all the admin and office-based stuff. She strikes me as a very up-and-doing individual.

I think she would be a lot more practical, and to bring in another thread of discussion in AE, she would delegate. I can see her delegating more.

#22: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:08 am
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I'm surprised that they didn't have an official deputy head - most schools seem to.

#23: Author: Lottie, Location: Humphrey's Corner

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:11 am
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Alison H wrote:

I'm surprised that they didn't have an official deputy head - most schools seem to.

I always assumed that the Senior Mistress was effectively deputy head.

#24: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:08 pm
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Lottie wrote:

Alison H wrote:

I'm surprised that they didn't have an official deputy head - most schools seem to.

I always assumed that the Senior Mistress was effectively deputy head.

Interesting question.

The role of Senior Mistress seems to fluctuate through the series depending on who is in the role. Originally, you had Maynie as Senior Mistress, but she definitely wasn't "deputy head" - that would be Mademoiselle. Maynie seems very much more of a "most senior of the rest of the staff" - she seems to speak on behalf of the staff to the Head, but Madge doesn't often include her / consult her in top level decision making.

The Abbess is Senior Mistress to Mademoiselle, and she eventually emerges as a deputy head type, but it takes a while. I find her quite anonymous in her early years.

When Bill is Senior Mistress to Hilda, she's quite clearly deputy head from the restart in Guernsey, but she doesn't come across that way in the Tyrol years. But that's when Charlie is still at the school, and is Bill even Senior Mistress then...?

In the Swiss books it Mlle de Lachennais who is Senior Mistress, right? She doesn't seem to be much of a deputy head figure. Hilda is more likely to seek the council and support of Bill or Joey than she is Jeanne, who is (like Maynie) "doyenne of the staff" rather than "the Head's right hand woman".

Maybe EBD had something against the role of deputy head! Or maybe she felt having one detracted from the "special" role of the Head Mistress.

#25: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:44 pm
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Caroline wrote:

When Bill is Senior Mistress to Hilda, she's quite clearly deputy head from the restart in Guernsey, but she doesn't come across that way in the Tyrol years. But that's when Charlie is still at the school, and is Bill even Senior Mistress then...?

In New CS, during the first assembly with Hilda Annersley as Head, EBD writes *The Head waited for the cheers to subside, and then turned to Miss Wilson, now first mistress in the school...* So I suppose that is a reference to her now being Senior Mistress, or Deputy Head, as the two seem to be synonymous with EBD.

Caroline wrote:

In the Swiss books it Mlle de Lachennais who is Senior Mistress, right? She doesn't seem to be much of a deputy head figure. Hilda is more likely to seek the council and support of Bill or Joey than she is Jeanne, who is (like Maynie) "doyenne of the staff" rather than "the Head's right hand woman".

But quite often EBD also refers to Ruth Derwent as Senior Mistress. And I'm afraid in ND I've gone for Ruth, as EBD tells us that Jeanne de Lachennais does not like the admin side of the work. Rolling Eyes

#26: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:25 pm
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Of course - Ruth Derwent Very Happy

I vaguely knew that Jeanne wasn't right, but couldn't think who else it could be. Should have checked the start of Challenge, when Hilda runs through the candidates for replacing her pro tem.

Really, I would have expected Jeanne to fill the role, based on experience and seniority, but for some reason Senior Mistress seems to suddenly be synonymous with being a teacher of English...

#27: Author: LizzieC, Location: Canterbury, UK

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:16 pm
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Caroline wrote:

for some reason Senior Mistress seems to suddenly be synonymous with being a teacher of English...

Probably so they have a chance of keeping up with all that correspondence!

#28: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:52 pm
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But in the Swiss years, once the finishing school has moved to St Mildreds, the School again has two Heads - with Miss Annersley being the senior and in overall charge and Miss Wilson in charge of St Mildreds. Effectively a Head and Deputy Head - this is obvious when, near the beginning of New Mistress, we hear that Kathie Ferrars was interviewed by Miss Wilson. In fact I can see that the whole finishing branch move with Nell Wilson in charge was because the 'powers that be' needed a senior member of staff to be vanguard in the move back to the Alps. The CS seems to work best when it has a dual Headship.

As for Headmistresses in general - well everyone knows my preferences - but I will just put in a word or two for Hilda Annersley. All my writing about her comes from the books - her character and background, strengths and weaknesses. Yes, she is, in some ways, the archetypal Headmistress, she has a number of wonderful attributes. But that is the case with many GO stories. Where she is different is in how it is so obvious that she cares deeply about her charges, that she is so willing to allow them the chance to reform. The phrase 'justice with mercy' is applied mainly to her because she is aware of exactly what makes a young girl 'tick'.

Her relationship with Miss Wilson is also something that can be seen so often in the books. Yes it does take a while to develop properly but, to my mind, that adds to its authenticity. And the many lines of banter written by myself have only been inspired by similar lines in the book.

Nell Wilson also makes a good Headmistress - and, in real life, could have done so - that she remained as Second Head must mean that she was happy and content as such. I'll agree that she has a far more lively manner, but that just complements Hilda Annersley's quieter way.

(Will stop now as waffling and anyway I don't need to write this - just read any of my drabbles or books Embarassed

)

Last edited by Lesley on Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

#29: Author: Tara, Location: Malvern, Worcestershire

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:26 pm
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I've tried hard to resist this, as I want to write an essay, but I've got to put my twopennorth in.

MADGE: Re-reading earlier this year made me realise I'd forgotten how nice she was as Head. Because she's so early in the series we don't get nearly enough of her (loved Caroline's extension of her in Juliet, btw) and, yes, she's in the tradition of the 'dame school' heads, but is already emerging from that. Despite her lack of qualifications, she is very professional, is both caring and a good disciplinarian - and I feel very sorry for her when she has to leave the school on her marriage. There are definite indications of longing. and she so enjoys coming back to teach. I hadn't realised that the Sonnalpe was so far from the school, a four hours' walk or something, so she couldn't exactly nip down for the odd lesson. Because of Joey, the Robin etc there is the strong family thread as well, and it's a nice mix.

MLLE: I don't think EBD's heart was really in this! We are told how cultured, effective, loved etc Mlle is, but we rarely see it, she's a fairly shadowy figure as Head. A pity, as there is a great feeling of wisdom and kindliness about her and I, too, would love to see more of her and Corney, but I wasn't surprised when she was invalided out.

MISS ANNERSLEY/WILSON: I can't separate these two, they are such a strong entity together (in my mind), and complement each other perfectly. Bill is a wonderful character, formidably intelligent, energetic, quick-tempered, funny, down to earth, the sort of person who takes life by the neck and shakes it, fully capable of doing the Head's job brilliantly, though certainly less sympathetic and insightful than the Abbess (in general terms; there are exceptions, she's absolutely lovely with Gay, for example).
As for the Abbess herself ... well, yes, she's without a doubt the Head EBD would love to have been, and she is a very restrained character, but that's part of her fascination. Again highly intelligent, a total professional, totally dedicated to her job, extremely self-controlled, rarely showing what she feels, sitting back and watching rather than participating, rarely showing herself except, perhaps, to Nell, but with a world of wisdom, kindness, insight and empathy - and strength, it is she who defines the school and holds it all together. She is a much more elusive character than Nell, which is precisely why those who write about her are so driven to search behind the public persona and find out what she is 'really' like. Nell brings fun into her life, she brings calm and equilibrium to Nell - and strength in a way, she's much more equable and sort of holds Nell steady. I can just imagine Nell clowning around in the staff room and Hilda sitting watching her, totally impassive apart from dancing eyes. As Lesley said, it's all in the books, it's just more of a treasure hunt -but what treasure! I think they are a marvellous pairing and I was devastated when EBD separated them (although the joint Headship comes from nowhere and is, in fact, rather clumsy). I certainly can't see Bill as the Head of a finishing branch, nor Hilda either, they're both too high-powered!

Sorry, got carried away there, but I spend a lot of my time with Hilda and Nell and love them dearly. Embarassed

#30: Author: Cath V-P, Location: Newcastle NSW

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:19 am
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Ok, have managed to resist this until now, but....

Madge: the perfect person in the perfect place. It's a new school, she's young, energetic, and very willing to adapt as circumstances alter. And she proves to be surprisingly competent at her job, possibly because she is extremely good at 'selling' her school. In two terms, she has thirty pupils, enlarged her premises and employed new staff, all while maintaining the personal contact with both pupils and parents. And then she got married......

Mdlle: never seems to me to be really aware of the school. Having taken her lead from Madge, it must have been daunting to be effectively handed the whole thing and told 'here you are, it's your turn." Yes, she's kind and she's competent, but somehow, I don't seem to get a sense of her as a person - and isn't it interesting it that we don't really drabble about her in the way that we do the others?

Hilda/Nell: it's impossible to separate them, and I think both/either of them is the headmistress that EBD wanted to be, and wasn't. But it's interesting that she could depict precisely what the role required...
They are both marvellous headmistresses just as Tara described them and like Caroline I would like to have read more about Nell's pov as headmistress when Hilda wasn't there. (I do have a bunny,in suspended animation on a shelf, who twitches every so often, and provides a paragraph or two, but I am trying to get to the end of the other one first). I do have problems seeing Nell as head of the finishing branch, and I do regret that we don't see as much of her after that move.

Nancy: a prototype headmistress, I suppose, although why Nell couldn't have done the job for one term, I'll never know. Possibly she was asked and refused, to give Nancy a chance.....

#31: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:08 am
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I suppose since I write so much about Hilda, I ought to say that I agree with Lesley, and indeed Tara's view as well. I can just see those twinkling eyes as she watches Nell, Tara. Laughing

But I too, in ND and my other drabbles, have used the books to portray my Hilda, winkling out those stray little lines that give so much away.

Perhaps I ought to add, though, that New Dreams shows Hilda from the inside, shows her own point of view, after one of the worst things that can happen to someone - whereas in the books we mostly get the calm and serene exterior. But no one can be without emotion and feelings all the time. She must have had them if she is human - and to me she is VERY human. Rolling Eyes

Think of the tears when she finds that canister during the air raid, think of her many teasing conversations with Nell, think of the times she offers up a swift prayer for help; most of all, think of those lines of Nell's after the accident - that deep emotion did not come from nowhere. Hilda must have revealed herself to Nell on numerous occasions.

Hilda doesn't seek comfort in her need in ND, but she does break down in private and is then discovered. In extreme sorrow, even the most controlled person has to give way occasionally, as Shakespeare says "Give sorrow words. The grief that does not speak whispers the o'er-fraught heart, and bids it break"

Biased? Me? Laughing

#32: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:51 pm
—

Tara wrote:

(although the joint Headship comes from nowhere and is, in fact, rather clumsy).

I thought the joint headship dated from the accident, when Nell was head while Hilda was recuperating. EBD presumably didn't want to seem unfair by demoting her again when Hilda returned. (Or perhaps Nell refused to be demoted). Sending Nell to St Mildred's was perhaps EBD recognising that the joint headship didn't really work, and finding a solution.

Personally, I think St Mildred's is far too small and the age range of the girls too limited to provide enough scope for Nell's talents and energy. She might have been better off taking over the headship of the English branch. But then I'd have missed what little we do get of her in the Swiss books.

#33: Author: Tamzin, Location: Edinburgh

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:02 pm
—

MaryR wrote:

I suppose since I write so much about Hilda, I ought to say that I agree with Lesley, and indeed Tara's view as well. I can just see those twinkling eyes as she watches Nell, Tara. Laughing

May I (please note correct usage of "may" here!) ask what "New Dreams" is? Is it going to be published as a book? I'm guessing it's about Miss Annersley (somehow I still feel too much in awe of her to call her Hilda) but during what time period? It sounds good anyway.

#34: Author: Hannah-Lou, Location: Glasgow

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:02 pm
—

JayB wrote:

Personally, I think St Mildred's is far too small and the age range of the girls too limited to provide enough scope for Nell's talents and energy. She might have been better off taking over the headship of the English branch. But then I'd have missed what little we do get of her in the Swiss books.

I totally agree! It's a while since I read Oberland, but I don't think they did much in the way of practical science at St Mildred's, did they? Nell would have had little scope for, and little variety in teaching her own subject, and with a smaller age range of pupils, their problems would also have been less interesting and challenging, I imagine. I think Nell would have got bored in that setting, and would have enjoyed being head of the English branch far more (although I suppose she would then have been separated from her closest friends, who were like her family). Had she been a real person, with her actions not governed by literary necessity Laughing

, I think that's more likely what she would have done.

As for the others - I was sorry not to see more of Madge as head: I liked her and she was good at it, and the school took on a very different feel when she left; Mademoiselle was a non-entity; Miss Browne and Miss Bubb were both idiots, of different sorts; haven't read Nancy's book; and Hilda was very nice, but Nell was more interesting (sorry Lesley and MaryR!), if only because she was more lively and less perfect.

#35: Author: Tara, Location: Malvern, Worcestershire

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:06 pm
—

JayB wrote:

I thought the joint headship dated from the accident, when Nell was head while Hilda was recuperating.

Yes, it obviously does, but it's never stated, it just appears, it's never explained. I'd have thought it was an attempt to support Miss A after her very serious illness, as well, but we're left to infer that.
Cath, please feed your bunny!

On another tack, I think the point about Miss Bubb was that she knew how very ill Miss A was and didn't expect her ever to recover enough to be able to take up her job again (an understandable pov). She wanted to make her mark and do the job so well that she would be the obvious person to be offered it when it became clear that the Head couldn't return, but she could only see success in terms of exam results and didn't at all understand the particular ethos of the school.

I felt that EBD was trying to use Nancy/Kathie to replace the ageing Heads but, altohugh they're excellent in their own way, it doesn't quite work. I do wonder why EBD seemed to go off the Hilda/Nell pairing after making it so strong. OK, I need to get out more! Very Happy

#36: Author: Cath V-P, Location: Newcastle NSW

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:08 am
—
Tamzin asked:

Quote:

May I (please note correct usage of "may" here!) ask what "New Dreams" is?

Tamzin, "New Dreams" is MaryR's wonderful and highly-to-be-recommended drabble in St Therese's. It's set after the end of Prefects, and traces Hilda's grief and rebuilding of her life after Nell's unexpected death. I won't say too much more (don't want to spoil it for you!), but it is an extraordinary piece of writing.

The previous parts are in the archive, btw! Very Happy

#37: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:37 am
—
I guess I have trouble seeing Misses Wilmot and Ferrars as up and coming heads because we've seen them as junior mistresses for too long.

Misses Annersley and Wilson were some of the more senior of the mistresses - they joined in the first couple of years, and once some of the most senior, like Miss Maynard, or Miss Leslie, or Miss Durrant, had left, they were logical choices for head.

For Kathie and Nancy, though, there are a number of mistresses more senior than they are - Miss Derwent, Miss Andrews, the Dennys, Matey, Frau Mieders, Mlle Lachenais, Miss Dene, Miss Burnett, Miss Moore. So I think it would be a difficult job for either of them to take over the headship. For one thing, both of them would be firmly ruled by Matey. Very Happy

I see Kathie as more of a head personality, though. She's more energetic and dynamic than Nancy, who's a little more laid back and relaxed, and I think she'd do better at asserting herself.

#38: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:00 pm
—

Quote:

For Kathie and Nancy, though, there are a number of mistresses more senior than they are - Miss Derwent, Miss Andrews, the Dennys, Matey, Frau Mieders, Mlle Lachenais, Miss Dene, Miss Burnett, Miss Moore. So I think it would be a difficult job for either of them to take over the headship. For one thing, both of them would be firmly ruled by Matey.

I see Kathie as more of a head personality, though. She's more energetic and dynamic than Nancy, who's a little more laid back and relaxed, and I think she'd do better at asserting herself.

I just wrote a long post then managed to delete it accidentally!

What I said was that several of the above candidates, including Matey, would be at or past retiring age by the time Hilda and Nell got there. And the beginning of Challenge established that seniority alone isn't what counts.

I do think Nancy would be a good choice. She was only at the school in Tyrol for a year or so, then she had her experience in the WRNS and at another school, so she isn't as bound by School traditions as some of the others while still being aware of them. And I think the School could benefit from a bit of laidbackness; in the Swiss books the girls' lives seem so bound by Rules and Bells.

It's difficult to compare the Heads - they had to deal with the School at such different stages of its existence. Madge and Hilda had the greatest challenges - Madge starting it up from nothing, with her own money and no experience; Hilda rebuilding in wartime after the removal from Austria and being responsible for the girls' safety from air raids. And Hilda had to deal with four removals in all. I think each of them - Madge, Mdlle, Hilda, Nell, Nancy - have the qualities that are needed at that stage of the school's existence. I do wish we'd seen more of Madge as head, and more of Nell.

#39: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:11 pm
—
I think the difficulty EBD faced was that she had created two very strong characters in Hilda Annersley and Nell Wilson - and couldn't see how she could have both of them together. A great pity, in my opinion, as the dynamics of having both of them is so much more interesting. I personally feel that together they are far stronger than either is apart. While either of them could do the job of Head on their own, I feel the best solution is to have both together.......

Of course I may be a little biased! Wink

#40: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:11 pm
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I always thought that Kathy was the clear choice for the next headmistress. I thought that Nancy's appointment in Challenge was really random. I like her a lot as a character, but never saw her as a leader.

#41: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:37 pm
—

Lesley wrote:

The CS seems to work best when it has a duel Headship.

I love it. Would that be pistols at 50 paces, or the more traditional swords? mrgreen

#42: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:25 pm
—

jennifer wrote:

Lesley wrote:

The CS seems to work best when it has a duel Headship.

I love it. Would that be pistols at 50 paces, or the more traditional swords? mrgreen

*Sigh* And of course you have never made an error in typing? Wink

Have amended typo. Rolling Eyes

#43: Author: Tamzin, Location: Edinburgh

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:52 pm
—

Cath V-P wrote:

Tamzin asked:

Quote:

May I (please note correct usage of "may" here!) ask what "New Dreams" is?

Have saved all of it to my own PC and will start reading ASAP - it looks brilliant. However yesterday evening on perusing the board I found "Senior Mistress" in St Therese and got engrossed in that instead. It's so wonderful to read a more "grown-up" take on the CS characters.

#44: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:24 pm
—
Thank you Tamzin - glad you like it. Embarassed

As a prequel to Mary's 'New Dreams' - and the explanation of the title - you might want to read my drabble 'Tension - an aside' in the drabbleoram - before starting on Mary's wonderful epic.

Last edited by Lesley on Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total

#45: Author: Cath V-P, Location: Newcastle NSW

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:26 am
—
Sorry Lesley, I should have mentioned that... Embarassed

#46: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:10 pm
—

Lesley wrote:

As a prequel to Mary's 'New Dreams' - and the explanation of the title - you might want to read my drabble 'Tension - an aside' in the drabbleoram - before starting on Mary's wonderful epic.

Lesley, I did actually include your drabble when I sent the doc of ND to Tamzin as she asked - so fret not!! Laughing

#47: Author: Tamzin, Location: Edinburgh

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:41 pm
—

MaryR wrote:

Lesley wrote:

As a prequel to Mary's 'New Dreams' - and the explanation of the title - you might want to read my drabble 'Tension - an aside' in the drabbleoram - before starting on Mary's wonderful epic.

Lesley, I did actually include your drabble when I sent the doc of ND to Tamzin as she asked - so fret not!! Laughing

Yes and I have read the introductory drabble in full already - it is a really excellent piece of writing and has made my mouth water for the "New Dreams" story to follow. I've begun that one now too - Hilda has just arrived at the retreat and I had to leave her there this morning as I had to attend, of all things, a team meeting! It is fantastic to be able to read new CS stories as good as any of my favourite novels. It's also a dream come true to read stories that deal with more adult and interesting themes than EBD did while retaining in full the essence of the CS she created.

This fic is making me think a lot about writing my own of course. Without wishing to blow my own trumpet I love to write and I like to believe that I am a fairly talented writer. After all I once entertained the "alt.tv.er.creative" newsgroup with my alternative universe novel featuring characters from "er". I used to be mad about that tv show although I haven't watched it for years - I gave up at the end of season 6. Anyway my story was set in a world devastated by a genetically modified virus gone astray. The hospital had basically becaome a place where people in the end stages of said virus went to be euthanased compulsorily. Of course there were protest groups against this as well as faceless corporations implementing it and I slotted various "er" characters into stances suitable to my interpretation of their morality. Twas great fun to write and, if I do say so myself, well received. I'm starting to think I would rather like to do some CS fic although it probably would be rather offbeat - going off at a tangent in some way like the fic I described above. Would that sort of thing go down OK or would I be annoying people? Actually I should probably put this post in a different forum but can't quite work out which. Mods - please feel free to move it if you think it appropriate.

#48: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:25 pm
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IMHO any new drabbles are always very welcome, Tamzin Very Happy

#49: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:06 pm
—

Tamzin wrote:

Thanks for the lovely compliments, Tamzin. Wink

I just hope you don't have eye-strain by the end. Laughing

And please do start writing your own drabbles. We'll look forward to them.

#50: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:11 pm
—
Thanks for the compliment - Tamzin - apart from my book that was the first piece of CS writing that I did - I've done a fair amount more since! Look forward to any drabbles from yourself!

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