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#1: Girls: Genius Girls Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:06 am
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There are occasional students at the school who are classified as extremely talented in a particular area: Margia, Jacynth and Nina at music, and Con, Joey and Gwensi (literary).

Are there any other examples of girls who should have been included in the list above, whatever their area? Were different types of genius (musical vs literary vs academic) treated differently? What do you think of the Chalet approach to extremely talented girls? Is there a stereotypical type of 'genius' in the Chalet World, and if so, what is she like?

#2: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:06 am
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A lot of prominence seems to've been given to music: I can't imagine anyone being allowed to spend as much time on e.g. science or languages in the VIth form as Nina was on music.

There doesn't seem to be anyone who's a genius at art - some people, e.g. Vi, are good, but aren't spoken of in the same terms - and Joey herself says that her literary talents aren't "genius" in the way that Nina's musical abilities are.

Also, whilst some people (notably Katharine Gordon) are good at sports, and some people (notably Stacie Benson) are very good at certain academic subjects - does anyone else get annoyed about the way Daisy's achievement in becoming a doctor at a time when so few women did are overlooked? - they're never spoken of in the same sort of way as the musical girls are either. Maybe that's because at that time the sort of people who went to the CS wouldn't have taken up sport professionally, so they couldn't have earned a living at it, and people who are very bright academically can get classed as "swots" at school?

I don't think that there's a stereotypical genius: the 3 main music people are all very different, with Nina initially concentrating on music to the extent of all else, Margia being the leader of a group of friends, and Jacynth being friendly with a lot of people but not as much of a leader as Margia was ... although Margia was never Head Girl.

#3: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:16 am
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It seems to me EBD reserved the genius tag for the musical girls. Those who are talented writers are allowed to be so, but they're not geniuses - Jo says as much to the prefects in Genius.

I think this probably ties in with her own background - she earned her living as a writer (so perhaps saw it as more of a prosaic profession), but studied music and although keen and knowledgable, wasn't actually that good. Maybe she revered musicians (as doing something she couldn't), in a way that she didn't revere other writers.

I'd add Katt Gordon to the list of the ultra-talented. There are girls that are good artists (Clem, Vi Lucy), but I don't get the sense that any of them are budding geniuses or even exceptionally talented.

Interesting that all EBD's near-geniuses are in the arts / sports fields. I guess it's harder to demonstrate an exceptional, out-of-the-ordinary talent in e.g. chemistry, when you are at school...

Edited for my rubbish spelling!

#4: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:21 pm
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I think another book where that subject is explored in a very interesting way is School By The River. It's a very different perspective from the way that the subject is handled at the Chalet School, because the central focus of the book is music and so geniuses are almost run-of-the-mill.

#5: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:39 am
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I think talent in music, and to some extent art and gym, tends to stand out because of the individual teaching. If chemistry were taught via individual tutoring with private lab use the difference between an indifferent student and a brilliant student would be much more obvious. You would have one student doing university level research while another was still mastering basic laboratory techniques. As it is, the most someone would get in an academic class is to be left behind or bumped up a single year.

Stacie, for example, is arguably as good at her stuff as Margia or Jacynth - she is certainly known outside of academia as really hot stuff. But she doesn't get any particular recognition or accomodation at school, and her classics are regarded more as an aside.

I think the literary/music differences are interesting. Joey doesn't start to write seriously until after she leaves school, while Con is frequently chastised for thinking about her writing while at school, and the main concession is that she gets to drop math at sixth form, which a number of girls do.

I do think EBD shows a romanticised view of people's ambitions in general. A lot of musical talent => successful concert musician and composer, deciding to go to Oxford at age 13 => automatic acceptance, wants to be a writer => publication on the first submission. There are no girls who want to be professional musicians, but don't have the talent or drive, which in my experience is pretty common among 16 year olds.

Nina is probably the best example of an actual prodigy. She's got the native talent, she been trained at music from birth and has the single minded drive and obsession needed to even consider succeeding. Margia, on the other hand, is a normally mischevious girl who has grown up travelling with her parents and getting education here and there. She starts regular lessons at age eleven, and is only allowed to specialise at age fifteen, and spends quite a bit of time on other lessons and pranks and socialising - she certainly doesn't have time for more than a few hours a day for practice and lessons. However, within a few years of leaving school she is already doing an international concert tour.

#6: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:06 am
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I think music appears to have a higher profile generally in the CS because so many of them learn and have individual lessons. This might be because EBD herself was so keen, but also it was considered necessary for a cultured education - especially for girls. There is still the whiff of it being an 'accompishment.' We don't hear of the Maynard boys learning. The triplets play string instruments and Jo wants Felicity to learn piano to accompany singing. No mention that Steve plays the piano, or anything!

#7: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:26 pm
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Jane Carew is supposed to be a gifted actress, although we don't know if she's really outstanding or if her background just makes her seem so next to the other girls. Drama is just an extracurricular acivity at the CS anyway - even the Christmas Play, one of the big events of the school year, is produced by the Junior Maths and Geography teacher, rather than by a drama or even literature specialist.

Joey was arguably gifted at languages, but she was never made to work seriously at anything at school, so we don't know how good she might have been if she'd been made to study properly.

EBD knew enough about music, writing and teaching to write about the technical aspects convincingly. She probably knew that she didn't know enough to portray giftedness in other areas - although she did focus on art in A Thrilling Term At Janeways, IIRC.

#8: Author: Lisa A., Location: North Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:12 pm
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Mel wrote:

There is still the whiff of it being an 'accomplishment.'

In Genius, someone does say something to the effect that Nina wouldn't like the cousins' school as the head puts good solid education before accomplishments, and it is know that the CS will deal with her more appropriately. I thought she was dealt with quite realistically and intelligently and several people throughout the book comment on their understanding of what genius means. It seems that EBD took this quality quite seriously and, as JayB says, she had the knowledge and understanding to explore the issue.

I do wonder why more wasn't made of Joey's amazing linguistic abilitities - I know she was frail and didn't want to work but she must have stood out. Maybe it was because of the "accomplishment" thing - very clever but not much use in the life she was going to lead.

#9: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:50 am
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Lisa A. wrote:

I do wonder why more wasn't made of Joey's amazing linguistic abilitities - I know she was frail and didn't want to work but she must have stood out. Maybe it was because of the "accomplishment" thing - very clever but not much use in the life she was going to lead.

The same with her voice - we're told how amazing it is, but the only training she gets is about four years at school with Mr Denny, and some lessons for a while afterwards.

I would think the logical thing for her to do after leaving school would be to go to somewhere like Italy to study voice seriously and work on Italian for a year or two, rather than hanging around home.

#10: Author: mini_mim,

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:10 pm
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jennifer wrote:

There's a bit in one of the later books about Margot's voice along the lines of how she possessed a power in her voice that might enable her to take the concert stage in a way her mother never had. That's a very rough quote, can't find the exact place at the moment, but it might give a clue as to why Jo didn't take her voice studies further. Of course, in the end, neither did Margot.

#11: Author: Aquabird, Location: North Lanarkshire, Scotland

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:53 pm
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It's in Leader:

Quote:

They [St Mildred's] pitched on Margot Maynard, who was not only a lovely girl but possessed what promised to become a true dramatic soprano, full and sweet and of no little power. All the Maynards sang, from the doctor and Mrs. Maynard - who had herself been the school's prima donna for many years - down to three-year-old Cecil, who already had a very true little treble. Margot, however, looked like becoming outstanding and already Joey Maynard had talked to Mr Denny about having her voice properly trained when she was a little older.

#12: Author: RroseSelavy, Location: Oxford, UK

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:59 pm
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What about Phil Craven and her maths? We're never told about her in any great detail, but to me she comes across as someone who might just develop into a single-minded academic...

#13: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:24 pm
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Vanna di Ricci became a concert singer (Jo to the Rescue) but I can't remember anything about her voice when she was at school.

#14: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:17 am
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Mel wrote:

Vanna di Ricci became a concert singer (Jo to the Rescue) but I can't remember anything about her voice when she was at school.

I think EBD may have gotten confused. When they leave school it's Carla von Flugen who is going to study voice (appropriate for a well bred young Austrian) and Vanna is going home to stay with an invalid mother.

#15: Author: Holly,

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:10 pm
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I think that perhaps musical and artistic gifts were easier to write; you don't really need to know all that much about the subjects to be able to portray a character as extraordinarily gifted. In the school environment, they are easier to show - look at Margia; the notoriously hard to please teacher is impressed by her, in contrast to most of the other girls, she's delighted to go to her music practice, she chooses a musically based hobby, etc. The same can be done with other musically gifted characters like Nina and Jacynth.

To take Eustacia as another example, we know that her Classics and Maths are very advanced. We know that she understands Greek and, if she is well versed in the classics, it is probable that she has at least a working knowledge of Latin. She is also very well read but the only major nod we get to those gifts in the book named for her is that she takes those subjects with the form above her. EBD also compensated by making her backward in other subjects.

We know that Juliet studied maths in university - not an easy subject - but there was little, if anything shown of her ability in school.

Aside from the multi-talented Joey - wonderful singer (there were times I thought I'd scream if I read the phrase "golden voice" one more time), gifted with languages, published author, natural leader - I don't think too many of the girls were shown as outstanding in multiple fields.

I suppose given the climate of the time, and the fact that most of the girls would have been from families of comfortable means they wouldn't have needed to work after they married and therefore "accomplishments" would have been given more attention than academic or career achievements.

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