The CBB :: View topic - Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian

“ ... try to train the girls in some sort of dress sense... “We insist that ours learn how to use make-up properly when they come to the age that demands make-up—out of school hours, anyhow. There’s no reason why they shouldn’t also be trained in the art of dressing themselves properly before they go out into the world?”

. Mother says it’s one of our jobs to make and keep ourselves looking as decent as we can. Other people have to look at us and it’s going to be a sickener for them if they have to keep on looking at haggish faces or people who are untidy and don’t wash properly.

Some of the girls wore skirts instead of tunics and Len Maynard had told her that when you were fifteen, you were allowed the tunic for games and gym only.

'... the present generation seems to be revolting against gym tunics and shirts and after all, it isn’t even as if they wore them for gym, these days,” Miss Annersley pointed out.
Peggy Burnett, who had been sitting ruminating, looked up. “I can see the point. They wear shirts and shorts for their gym and games, so there really is no point in hanging on to gymmers for lessons—except that for so long those have been the accepted uniform in schools.

All wore the loose gentian-blue shorts and cream woollen pullovers which were the school’s uniform for games.

but this is also the book with all the LACROSSE -aargh.

But isn't stressing that somebody else might get upset or offended because your nose is shiny a bit much :roll:

“Oh, yes; why not?” Jocelyn said serenely. “I’m to read Economics for my degree when I go to Cambridge.

I just noticed something else:

Quote:

“Oh, yes; why not?” Jocelyn said serenely. “I’m to read Economics for my degree when I go to Cambridge.

A Chalet girl going to Cambridge?!

Cat C wrote:

A Chalet girl going to Cambridge?!

I think you could make a case on this fact alone for someone other than EBD having written this book!

I remember reading somewhere that Margaret Thatcher returned to school in September and then was offered a place in Cambridge which she accepted, so I was wondering if things had changed since the 'fifties.

I was watching the film The Guinea Pig last weekend. It's set in the '40s and is about a boy from a poor background (father a small shopkeeper) who was given a place at public school. He discusses the possibility of going to university with his schoolmaster, who says it won't be necessary to put his name down for a college at Cambridge for a year or so yet. So maybe EBD wasn't so far wrong as we've supposed. Maybe you had to get your name down provisionally to be sure of a place at your chosen university or college, but actually getting in depended on your exam results?

The fancy dress sounds very good, except thet crepe paper, once unravelled from the roll, is very thin and uninteresting.

"I think that besides those who will fill our two chapels tomorrow when they are consecrated, there will be a crowd of unseen worshippers, rejoicing to know that we have them at last.”

Is this the book where the triplets try to explain to Ruey just how special ML is? They can't and have to bring in Joey, of course.

Mel wrote:

Quote:

Is this the book where the triplets try to explain to Ruey just how special ML is? They can't and have to bring in Joey, of course.

Isn't that with Rosamund, in Problem? I always thought that the fact that no one had time to explain was a bit of a cop out on EBD's part - not even she knew what made OOAO special!

...I think the triplets try to explain about ML to Ruey but again, it's just rather muddled and never properly explained.

"Naomi must be awfully ill if they've sent for Mamma and Mary-Lou," Con said to Ruey as they dragged a form from the wall to its proper place.

"Why do you all think so much of Mary-Lou?" Ruey asked. "I can understand anyone wanting Auntie Joey; but why Mary-Lou?"

Con considered. "I think it’s because she's awfully so all there always. And she's so decent and so—so kind and understanding and looking out for other people. It’s a pity you don’t know her, Ruey—really know her, I mean. You’d like her!"

"But why should Naomi ask for her out of everyone?" Ruey persisted.

Barbara who was behind them, answered this. "Because Mary-Lou helped her to straighten out the one term she was here—straighten out in her mind, I mean." She turned to Clare. "Do you remember what she was like when she first came, Clare?"

"I do so!" Clare assented. "It wasn’t so much that she was sneering as that she kept us all at arms' length and wouldn’t let anyone even try to get near her."

Barbara nodded. "Exactly! And then somehow Mary-Lou got hold of her. I know something happened that week-end our crowd spent at St. Moritz, though none of us ever knew what. But Naomi was different after that."

In fact (and i suppose I must divulge interests here, I am not someone who likes the whole anti-agnostic/aetheist line wrt Naomi), I think a better explanation, given the secondary lacrosse storyline, for the CS girls group investment in Naomi's recovery is a tendency for mass-hysteria in tightly woven, exclusive, isolated groups!!!!

Mary-Lou, when apparently being unable to cope with the idea that some people are agnostics - which, as you say, seems very odd for someone so intelligent -

However, I think atheism/agnosticism would have evoked an additional social stigma in the U.S. due to cold war politics, and I'm wondering if any of that sort of thing was also current in the U.K. when EBD was writing.

I find the Swiss books a bit tedious in general with the number of sermons delivered. They are all invariably prefaced with 'She went red as (Len/MaryLou) was not given to sermons/comfortable with expressing her beliefs' and then followed by a sermon. You'd think by the end Len would have had enough practice to have got over her embarrassment

Quote:

In the real world, girls who grew up in the UK in the 1940s and 1950s would have been bound to encounter people who had no particular faith. Either Mary Lou moved in very restricted circles, or she had met atheists/agnostics and didn't know it, or EBD was not writing about the real world.

Author:	Róisín [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
There is a synopsis here. This is Ruey's first term at the School after being taken in as a Maynard ward. She is looking forward to becoming a Proper CS Girl when Francie takes an unexpected dislike of her. Lacrosse is resurrected. Peggy Bettany gets married at half-term and subsequently goes to Canada. It turns out that Evadne is now Lady Watson and is expecting. Naomi has a serious operation and lastly, Prof. Richarson leaves for the moon. So, do you like this book?! There is a lot happening in it. Do you like Ruey herself? Is she consistent with the girl we met in Tirol? What did you think of the news from Peggy and Evadne? This is the book with a new uniform - do you like it? Please raise any issues in relation to this book below Next Sunday: A Leader in the Chalet School

Author:	Alison H [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
I've only got a pb of this, but I've read the transcript in hb and Armada cut LOADS of it out - pokes them lots. Professor Richardson literally vanishing into thin air is one of the silliest storylines in the entire series. Not EBD's finest moment . I love the chapter about Peggy's wedding. Whilst I appreciate that it would have got a bit much had EBD described every clan wedding, I find it unrealistic that Bride's, Josette's and Primula's aren't even mentioned, and it's great to see everyone together at Peggy's and to get a rare glimpse of Rix and David as adults. The bit I really don't like - and most of it's cut out of the pb - is Madge making Josette (and Sybil) accompany her to Australia when (even though to me a year in Australia sounds much better than a yeat at St Mildred's!) it's not what Josette wants. What makes it even worse is that Josette has to hear the news from Hilda, because Madge has told Hilda that she's making Josette miss her year at St Mildred's but hasn't told Josette! I hate the way Madge changes from a lovely caring person in the early books to the sort of person who treats her children with so little consideration. Also, EBD yet again shows how out of touch she was with the university application system by saying that Josette can't go to university for another year as there won't be a vacancy for her until then. I don't know what the point of changing the uniform was. I can understand why they changed it when they moved to Switzerland, because they were making a new start, but changing it again seems pointless, and also very inconsiderate. I know that by the Swiss books almost all the girls were from well-off families, but parents still can't have been very pleased about having to get new stuff, and even though girls would have grown out of their uniforms anyway it meant that outgrown things couldn't be passed down to younger sisters/cousins/friends. Plus we're told that older girls can keep on wearing the old uniform as it'd be pointless getting new just for a short time, but that a lot of them were getting new anyway, which would have made girls whose parents couldn't afford to get new stuff (isn't Connie Winter mentioned there?) feel rather conspicuous. Sorry for all the moaning !

Author:	Cat C [ Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
I've been having a quick skim of the early chapters, and the uniform thing is... Oh, I don't know - almost a recognition that the old ones were becoming a bit old-fashioned maybe. And also a plot-device to involve Joey in the running of the school. Also seems very silly they couldn't just phase them in over a few years, given that they were the same colour as the old ones, and most unfair that Joey knew that Ruey could make do with an old tunic of Len's given she'd heard hints of the new uniform - other people hadn't! The other thing I'd completely forgotten about is Francie Wilford - the story about how she was orphaned at the age of 8 when her father died - even though she got on well with her step-mother (who subsequently re-married), she doesn't get much sympathy!

Author:	Sunglass [ Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
There's a minor obsession with clothes and appearance in this one, which I suppose follows on from the same thing in Joey and Co in Tirol - not alone the infamous new uniform, but little references to aspects of school gear I hadn't noticed before, like the 'slip on casuals' the girls wear in the garden. And the fact that the new uniform (which sounds horrifying to me!) seems to be mostly chosen because as Mdlle says "It is truly chic in design and yet it is simple and jeune fille and therefore what we need.” And Biill saying that they are changing away from tunics to Quote: “ ... try to train the girls in some sort of dress sense... “We insist that ours learn how to use make-up properly when they come to the age that demands make-up—out of school hours, anyhow. There’s no reason why they shouldn’t also be trained in the art of dressing themselves properly before they go out into the world?” And Margot saying Quote: . Mother says it’s one of our jobs to make and keep ourselves looking as decent as we can. Other people have to look at us and it’s going to be a sickener for them if they have to keep on looking at haggish faces or people who are untidy and don’t wash properly. There's an EBDism about games clothes, too - we're told at the start that the girls wear gym tunics for games and gym: Quote: Some of the girls wore skirts instead of tunics and Len Maynard had told her that when you were fifteen, you were allowed the tunic for games and gym only. But then, when the staff are deciding on the new uniform: Quote: '... the present generation seems to be revolting against gym tunics and shirts and after all, it isn’t even as if they wore them for gym, these days,” Miss Annersley pointed out. Peggy Burnett, who had been sitting ruminating, looked up. “I can see the point. They wear shirts and shorts for their gym and games, so there really is no point in hanging on to gymmers for lessons—except that for so long those have been the accepted uniform in schools. And later on, at the first lacrosse game: Quote: All wore the loose gentian-blue shorts and cream woollen pullovers which were the school’s uniform for games. I like Ruey, and the crepe-paper party is fun (presumably Matey refused permission for another sheets-and-pillowcases party), and the fact that Joey talks about getting a 'gorgeous cheque' from her publisher, but this is also the book with all the LACROSSE -aargh.

Author:	KB [ Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Sunglass wrote: but this is also the book with all the LACROSSE -aargh. lol What's wrong with the lacrosse?

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Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5351

Author:	Sunglass [ Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Just the way great slabs of information about positions and the size of the pitch get chucked in, and the rest of the narrative just seems to stop - it feels as though it briefly becomes a Lacrosse for Beginners textbook. I always find myself either skipping great chunks, or picking holes in the back story - I mean, I know OOAOML is more important than God, but are we really supposed to believe that because she wasn't able to play lacrosse after her accident, one of the official sports of the CS was basically retired? Wasn't there even a single reserve who could have replaced her?

Author:	Alison H [ Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Peggy makes a similar comment in Oberland about how you should try to look nice because other people have to look at you. Is this a commonly-held idea in CS-type environments? I can't think of any other books that I've read it in. Saying that people should "wash properly" and try to look fairly neat and tidy I can understand, fair enough, but they seem to be saying that you should try to look attractive - Peggy says something about shiny noses! - because it's not fair on anyone who has to look at you if you don't! I can understand the idea that wearing a lot of make-up might look "cheap" (although I won't leave the house without any make-up on, because I look even worse without make-up than with it!); I can just about understand the puritanical religious view that people are as they were made and shouldn't try to alter their natural looks; I can understand people trying to look good to make a good impression on others, especially handsome single doctors who might happen to be passing ; and I can understand people wanting to look good as a confidence-booster. But isn't stressing that somebody else might get upset or offended because your nose is shiny a bit much ?!

Author:	Nightwing [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Alison H wrote: But isn't stressing that somebody else might get upset or offended because your nose is shiny a bit much ?! Well... an awful lot of people are afraid of clowns... perhaps EBD shared this phobia, and even the slightest hint of a red, shiny nose sent her crazy?

Author:	JS [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Re-reading relatively recently (in the last couple of years or so) I was struck by how nice the gentian shorts and cream jersey sports combo sounded. Could never really picture the 'chic' dress, however. I find great chunks of lacrosse, (or indeed tennis, as in Wrong) boring and tend to skip. I'd never really taken to Francie so I suppose I felt a bit mean when I got her backstory, as it were. As I suppose the girls might have. And, I know that Hilda fans disagree, but I don't think she should have told Josette about not going to St Mildred's - or certainly not in front of all her friends. Yes, Madge behaved abominably but that doesn't excuse the way Hilda did it. (stands back to repel boarders )

Author:	Sunglass [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
I entirely agree about Hilda's acting tactlessly (and rather out of character, it has to be said) by telling Josette about a huge event in her own future. If, for instance, though there aren't any grounds for this, she felt Madge should have forewarned Josette, and that it was her duty to tell, then she could have broken the news gently and in private. And not in that menacing vague way, saying that Josette and Sybil will be 'grown up' when they come back, without saying anything concrete... Honestly, given everything we hear about Con Maynard being tactless and always being ticked off sharply for it, the fact that it doesn't occur to EBD that Hilda is waaay out of line here is weird. There's a strong sense of mothers' entitlement to their daughters' company in this book - as well as Madge deciding that Josette and Sybil are necessary to her in Australia, you have Mollie Bettany keeping Maeve home from school for a while after Peggy's wedding, because Peggy has been at home as her companion since she left school, and she will miss her. I mean, obviously many mothers like having their daughters about, but it now makes this book feel like a real period piece to have two mothers actively taking their 17/18-year-olds out of education - for a few days and a year - simply to have their company... ('Dear Miss Annersley, Maeve was late back to school at half term because I just fancied having her around, now that my other resident daughter is on honeymoon. Yours, Mollie B.') Mind you, quite a few people behave slightly oddly in this book - I've always found the incident involving Miss Moore and Ruey's finger a bit strange. It seems silly that Ruey simply didn't say her finger was hurt, but on the other hand, she thought Matron had told all the staff, and surely Miss Moore would blame herself even a little for not noticing that a girl she's right beside has a heavily bandaged hand and is in such discomfort she faints shortly afterwards? Yet we get the other staff saying that Ruey having to go to the san will 'larn her' and give Miss Moore a chance to get over her 'shock'. No mention of an apology to Ruey, or to Margot, who tried to warn her, when the incident was in part the result of the mistress' own tiredness...? I'd understand if Miss Moore's unpleasant treatment (of a new girl, and in German, which Ruey has only recently begun!) was by someone like Miss Bubb, who was meant by EBD to be a villain, but here we're clearly not supposed to blame Miss Moore...

Author:	Cat C [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
I just noticed something else: Quote: “Oh, yes; why not?” Jocelyn said serenely. “I’m to read Economics for my degree when I go to Cambridge. A Chalet girl going to Cambridge?!

Author:	Sunglass [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Cat C wrote: I just noticed something else: Quote: “Oh, yes; why not?” Jocelyn said serenely. “I’m to read Economics for my degree when I go to Cambridge. A Chalet girl going to Cambridge?! I think you could make a case on this fact alone for someone other than EBD having written this book! CS girls don't go to Cambridge! On the other hand, at least Jocelyn is as 100% confident about being accepted at Cambridge as all the Oxford-bound CS girls are... EBD really didn't get university admissions, bless her.

Author:	MJKB [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Would the university admission system in CS days have been the same as it is today? I've guided a few of my students through UCAS, one of them just this year who is applying for medicine, and while the application process is, by comparison with the Irish CAO system, extremely complicated, it is an excellent way of screening people for courses that suit their aptitudes and interests. I remember reading somewhere that Margaret Thatcher returned to school in September and then was offered a place in Cambridge which she accepted, so I was wondering if things had changed since the 'fifties.

Author:	KB [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Sunglass wrote: Cat C wrote: A Chalet girl going to Cambridge?! I think you could make a case on this fact alone for someone other than EBD having written this book! Except that that quite is in Ruey Richardson and the 'Jocelyn' in question is Jocelyn Fawcett. But it might also say a great deal that Miss Bubb studied at Cambridge...

Author:	Fiona Mc [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
I'm with Sunglass and JS about Hilda being tactless and with her bosses daughter of all people. I wonder what Madge thought about that, not just with Hilda's tactlessness but also would she have wondered if her emplyee did this often?. With Mother's having such a say over their daughter's lives these girls are under 21 and back in those days that did go on a lot more than now. Quite frankly I've never understood why it was such an issue for Josette. I would have loved the chance to go overseas like that!

Author:	JayB [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Quote: I remember reading somewhere that Margaret Thatcher returned to school in September and then was offered a place in Cambridge which she accepted, so I was wondering if things had changed since the 'fifties. Did she go that same term? What we used to call 'third year Sixth' was quite common at my school in the '60s and early '70s. Each year a handful of people would come back in the autumn term after taking A levels the previous summer, to sit the Oxbridge entrance exam. If they were successful, they'd go to University the following autumn, by which time they'd be nineteen. I'm pretty sure UCCA, as UCAS used to be known, wasn't around in the '50s. I was watching the film The Guinea Pig last weekend. It's set in the '40s and is about a boy from a poor background (father a small shopkeeper) who was given a place at public school. He discusses the possibility of going to university with his schoolmaster, who says it won't be necessary to put his name down for a college at Cambridge for a year or so yet. So maybe EBD wasn't so far wrong as we've supposed. Maybe you had to get your name down provisionally to be sure of a place at your chosen university or college, but actually getting in depended on your exam results?

Author:	MJKB [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Theanks Jayb, and I think there must have been a big difference then in college admissions. In Ireland, once you matriculated you could chose any course of study you liked. This was the case up to about the start of the 70's. Our present system, which is based on points, only came in in the aftermath of free education, which, naturally, boosted the numbers applying to third level. Anyone know when Ruey will be available in GGBP? I'm dying to read it now!

Author:	Sunglass [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
JayB wrote: I was watching the film The Guinea Pig last weekend. It's set in the '40s and is about a boy from a poor background (father a small shopkeeper) who was given a place at public school. He discusses the possibility of going to university with his schoolmaster, who says it won't be necessary to put his name down for a college at Cambridge for a year or so yet. So maybe EBD wasn't so far wrong as we've supposed. Maybe you had to get your name down provisionally to be sure of a place at your chosen university or college, but actually getting in depended on your exam results? In fairness to EBD, pupils at the seven 'elite' boys' public schools - Eton, Harrow, Charterhouse, Westminster, Rugby, Winchester and Shewsbury, and I can't believe I know all seven - didn't actually have to pass exams to gain admission to Oxbridge until some point in the 60s, outrageous as it seems. So as regards someone like Roger Richardson, if he is actually at one of these schools - we don't ever get a school name for either him or the Maynard boys, do we? (though I suppose we can assume the Maynard boys go wherever Jack went) - he can just have his name put down. I suppose EBD is either wrongly assuming that this is the case for all schools, or that the CS as an expensive/prestigious boarding school can also 'put down' its pupils names for Oxbridge. Though I don't think any girls' schools had the same powers, ever. MJKB - 'Ruey' is on the transcripts site, as far as I know.

Author:	jennifer [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Miss Annersley's faux pas strikes me the wrong way, too. She tells Josette that she's not going to St Mildred's, but won't tell her anything else, which seems pretty cruel to me. My only thought is that Madge wasn't planning on telling Josette until after her school year was over, and Miss Annersley was trying to force the issue. It also seems a bit much that Madge suddenly wants her daughters' company, after happily sending them off to a foreign boarding school for years. Sybil, in particular, was left behind when her family went to Canada. She gets her comeuppance, though, when both daughters marry and settle permanently half a planet away from their parents. I like this book in general, although it could have done with a lot less lacrosse! Francie is an interesting character, and is the closest EBD comes to showing an awkward, sulky teenager who is angry at the world. Although after this book, Francie seems to suddenly reform completely, after several years of snotty behaviour.

Author:	Mel [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
This one does have a few irritating bits in it such as the lacrosse and Josette's disappointment. The fancy dress sounds very good, except thet crepe paper, once unravelled from the roll, is very thin and uninteresting. Is this the book where the triplets try to explain to Ruey just how special ML is? They can't and have to bring in Joey, of course.

Author:	Sunglass [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Mel wrote: The fancy dress sounds very good, except thet crepe paper, once unravelled from the roll, is very thin and uninteresting. What always occurs to me about crepe paper is that it's fairly flimsy and quite see-through, so I assume the CS girls, despite the trendy new uniform dress being adopted, are still wearing stout undergarments, in which one could spend an evening without risking semi-nudity! And the quotation that, were I Con Maynard, or any of the nervy and prone-to-sleepwalking girls, would have positively given me the creeps, as said by Miss Wilson to one of the girls: Quote: "I think that besides those who will fill our two chapels tomorrow when they are consecrated, there will be a crowd of unseen worshippers, rejoicing to know that we have them at last.” I mean, I grew up in a devoutly Catholic environment too, but the idea of the dead looking down from heaven is considerably less alarming than the idea of them crowding into your school chapel... And this from the woman who made Biddy O'Ryan sleep in her room to stop her telling banshee stories after lights out!

Author:	LauraMcC [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Mel wrote: Quote: Is this the book where the triplets try to explain to Ruey just how special ML is? They can't and have to bring in Joey, of course. Isn't that with Rosamund, in Problem? I always thought that the fact that no one had time to explain was a bit of a cop out on EBD's part - not even she knew what made OOAO special!

Author:	Loryat [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Yeah I know after al that chat it never even gets explained! I personally wanted to know! I think in the later books EBD possibly gets a bit lazy with her exposition. She writes a converstaion with Misss A and the prefects, remembers she's got to work the Australian storyline in and just shoves that in too, never even thinking that it might seem innappropriate. Possibly her intended readership wouldn't have noticed either.

Author:	Mel [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Yes it was Problem -thanks.

Author:	Nightwing [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
LauraMcC wrote: Mel wrote: Quote: Is this the book where the triplets try to explain to Ruey just how special ML is? They can't and have to bring in Joey, of course. Isn't that with Rosamund, in Problem? I always thought that the fact that no one had time to explain was a bit of a cop out on EBD's part - not even she knew what made OOAO special! Actually, I think it happens in both Problem and Ruey. Rosamund asks "Why is ML so special?" and the question is never answered, and I think the triplets try to explain about ML to Ruey but again, it's just rather muddled and never properly explained.

Author:	LizzieC [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Nightwing wrote: ...I think the triplets try to explain about ML to Ruey but again, it's just rather muddled and never properly explained. There is a bit like that in this book, yes. Elinor M. Brent-Dyer in 'Ruey Richardson, Chaletian' wrote: "Naomi must be awfully ill if they've sent for Mamma and Mary-Lou," Con said to Ruey as they dragged a form from the wall to its proper place. "Why do you all think so much of Mary-Lou?" Ruey asked. "I can understand anyone wanting Auntie Joey; but why Mary-Lou?" Con considered. "I think it’s because she's awfully so all there always. And she's so decent and so—so kind and understanding and looking out for other people. It’s a pity you don’t know her, Ruey—really know her, I mean. You’d like her!" "But why should Naomi ask for her out of everyone?" Ruey persisted. Barbara who was behind them, answered this. "Because Mary-Lou helped her to straighten out the one term she was here—straighten out in her mind, I mean." She turned to Clare. "Do you remember what she was like when she first came, Clare?" "I do so!" Clare assented. "It wasn’t so much that she was sneering as that she kept us all at arms' length and wouldn’t let anyone even try to get near her." Barbara nodded. "Exactly! And then somehow Mary-Lou got hold of her. I know something happened that week-end our crowd spent at St. Moritz, though none of us ever knew what. But Naomi was different after that." Then there's a bit where they all ask Mary-Lou to explain to Ruey why they all care so much about Naomi getting better.

Author:	Tor [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Ruey asks some good questions in this bit, and wont be fobbed off easily, I think. Ruey just wont have it from the triplets and ML that it is the general underlying school ethos/principles that creates the 'we all care about Naomi' atmosphere. And I get the feeling that she wasn't all that convinced by MLs explanation, hence the 'you need to think it over yourself' dictat at the end. In fact (and i suppose I must divulge interests here, I am not someone who likes the whole anti-agnostic/aetheist line wrt Naomi), I think a better explanation, given the secondary lacrosse storyline, for the CS girls group investment in Naomi's recovery is a tendency for mass-hysteria in tightly woven, exclusive, isolated groups!!!! On the whole, I really like Ruey. I think her slightly passive-aggressive stance (early bed, pah! but ok, I'll fit in. Prep! I'd rather organize my own time, thanks, but I see I don't have a choice), whilst remaining nice and being pragmatic, the most sensible and believable response of a new girl. Doesn't make for a zinger of a tale, though.

Author:	Sunglass [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Tor wrote: In fact (and i suppose I must divulge interests here, I am not someone who likes the whole anti-agnostic/aetheist line wrt Naomi), I think a better explanation, given the secondary lacrosse storyline, for the CS girls group investment in Naomi's recovery is a tendency for mass-hysteria in tightly woven, exclusive, isolated groups!!!! I think this explanation stands up to a lot of scrutiny! Not just for Naomi's recovery and lacrosse, but many of the school obsessions. I agree on not at all liking the dismissive way in which Mary-Lou talks about Naomi's former lack of belief as 'poppycock'. (And it's clear here that it's not that Naomi isn't a technically a member of some church that shocks M-L, but her belief that there's 'no God, or that, if there is, he doesn't care.') My problem with this is not so much that my own personal conviction says that people who follow an organised religion should respect other choices - EBD presumably felt differently. My problem is that it makes the story very unrealistic for a mature and thoughtful character like Mary-Lou to be so entirely gobsmacked at encountering someone without belief, even in the period in which the novel was written. EBD may have strong religious beliefs, and there's no reason why she shouldn't give them to some of her characters - but filling the CS (which has such a very varied and international intake) with devout Christians risks weakening the novels because it's unrealistic - and it's not just individual characters, but episodes like the consecration of the chapels, where she represents the entire school as being deeply overjoyed at their dedication. Though I've sometimes thought it's possible that Ruey, who says to Joey that religion is as new to her as school rules are, is simply going along with the rituals of bedtime prayer etc the way she goes along with early bed and organised prep - she's a pragmatist who's in a place where those are the rules. If so, it's the nearest EBD comes to showing us a girl who remains relatively uninterested in Christianity but who is presented as 'normal'.

Author:	Alison H [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Joan Baker is also presented as having little interest in saying prayers, but in her case that's just part of EBD showing us how un-Chalet-like she is. Mary-Lou, when apparently being unable to cope with the idea that some people are agnostics - which, as you say, seems very odd for someone so intelligent - reflects that in the past there've been girls who have no interest in religion but are "nominally" Catholic or Protestant and so attend prayers for the sake of form (apparently attending prayers for appearance's sake is OK, but Naomi's open opinions aren't!) , but we aren't given any names. I'm sure that plenty of people didn't take the school's emphasis on religion, being made to go for afternoon tea at Freudesheim, and various other things as seriously as they were meant to, but just kept quiet in public for the sake of peace.

Author:	Tor [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Quote: Mary-Lou, when apparently being unable to cope with the idea that some people are agnostics - which, as you say, seems very odd for someone so intelligent - I think here we come up against the brick wall of EBDs own prejudices. No one's perfect, i guess! She advocates 'getting into the skin' of other people, and that also is her role as authoress, but she can't empathize her way through this one. In addition, I think this falls under her 'moral imperative' of not setting a bad example to children through the content of her books (as preached by Matey). So she can endow her characters with an ability to empathize, but can only demonstrate it so far. Hence it is at odds with the character of ML (and Joey etc) that i built up as child, taking these unlimited powers of human understanding at face value.

Author:	Mel [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
EBD compares unfavourably here with Antonia Forest who was writing at the same time, an equally devout Catholic convert, but who has the character we are supposed to like best, (Nicola) indifferent to religion and the character we are supposed to like least, (Ann) a confirmed believer. Incidentally, neither of them changes their views during the course of the books.

Author:	MJKB [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
While I agree with Mel, I seem to remember Nicola showing quite a bit of curiousity towards Catholicism, perhaps because of Patrick's illustrious Catholic ancestry. She attends Mass on one occasion. Antonia Forest's approach to religion was far more intellectual than EBD'. She could cope far better with religous indifference and agnosticism.

Author:	Kathy_S [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
I didn't find ML's response to agnosticism terribly surprising, but that may be because, although various levels of doubt came up in the more serious type of private discussions, I never met people who declared themselves atheists in more than a joking manner until well into adulthood -- and, by our lights back then, this was only to be expected, as the persons in question were from "godless Communist countries." To some extent, I am sure that my experience was similar to the way we normally read Mary-Lou's reaction: inexperience with anything beyond the norms of a pervasive faith-based culture, in which true social acceptance of religions beyond mainline Protestant denominations was still fairly cutting edge. However, I think atheism/agnosticism would have evoked an additional social stigma in the U.S. due to cold war politics, and I'm wondering if any of that sort of thing was also current in the U.K. when EBD was writing.

Author:	JayB [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books: Ruey Richardson, Chaletian
Quote: However, I think atheism/agnosticism would have evoked an additional social stigma in the U.S. due to cold war politics, and I'm wondering if any of that sort of thing was also current in the U.K. when EBD was writing. I was at secondary school in the 1960s in the UK. None of my extended family - parents, siblings, uncles, aunts, cousins - were churchgoers, and nor were any of my schoolfriends. One of my friends declared herself to be agnostic, but otherwise religion wasn't particularly discussed. There was certainly no social stigma that I'm aware of surrounding people who had no particular religious beliefs. The unquestioning religious belief of virtually everyone in the CS world was something quite outside my experience. In the real world, girls who grew up in the UK in the 1940s and 1950s would have been bound to encounter people who had no particular faith. Either Mary Lou moved in very restricted circles, or she had met atheists/agnostics and didn't know it, or EBD was not writing about the real world.