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Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
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Author:  Róisín [ Mon May 25, 2009 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
A Leader in Spite of Herself, from 1956, is very difficult to find hardback form, but there IS a transcript of it in Raya's site so perhaps some of us have read it. It is a title that we have never discussed in FD before, incidentally! It doesn't seem to have been a Chambers title either, but published by Oliphants.

This isn't a title that I've read myself, although looking at the transcript I will rectify that very soon. So if anyone could chip in here and raise some issues for discussion about Rosemary and her adventures at the Martha Rideout Foundation, please do :D

Next week: Beechy of the Harbour School
Author:  KatS [ Mon May 25, 2009 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
Yeeess... I normally have a pretty strong appetite for "sending up a swift prayer for help" stuff, but I find this one pretty unbearable. Every other sentence Rosemary is consoling herself that she can deal with anything "with His help", or telling off the fifth formers for insulting Iris not because it's very rude, but because those words are not to the greater glory of God, or remembering how she's blossomed since her Confirmation.

Although I was tickled to see another endorsement of the "not looking your best equals inflicting needless suffering on the poor folks that are forced to look at you" theory from the original Head:
Quote:
I aim at making them take a pride in being as fresh and tidy in their persons as in their work. Other folk will have to spend a considerable amount of time looking at them and why it should be considered a virtue to be an unpleasant sight either way is something I’ve never understood.


As for the snob aspect... I thought it was interesting to have the mother against her daughter as well as everything else. It does seem to show the extremely hands-off nature of parenting in the eyes of EBD though - the daughter could get to age 15 without her mother bothering to talk to her about her wrong-headed beliefs, and when the mother finally wakes up and realises it, instead of talking to the girl herself, she packs her off to boarding school.
Author:  Mel [ Mon May 25, 2009 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
I read this a long time ago and can't remember much of the story, but it has Sunday School Prize stamped all over it.
Author:  MJKB [ Mon May 25, 2009 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
I never heard of it. When was it published?
Author:  JB [ Mon May 25, 2009 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
It was first published in 1956. IIRC, it was written for the Sunday School prize market in which Oliphants specialised. I think Beechy of the Harbour School may have been the same.

There was far too much preaching in this book for my taste. The ethos isn’t unlike that of the Chalet School but it's hammered home with no subtlety.

I agree with KatS about EBD and parenting. Poor Iris has been travelling the world with her governess (who's been in place for some time) and her mother, yet the latter doesn't notice there's a problem for ages and, when she does, her response is to pack her daughter off to boarding school.

Some things which did make me laugh were the comment about a series of school stories where some titles had been out of print for a long time and the quote below (please don't read this if you're easily shocked :shock:):

Quote:
“Overtired, I expect. Suppose I bring you a glass of hot milk—oh, you don’t like it?” for Anthea had made a face. “Very well then; no hot milk. But you’ll turn over and lie down and go to sleep at once.”


And on another note, I really can't imagine blowing my nose with cotton wool if I had a heavy cold. Wouldn't it stick to you?
Author:  Alison H [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
I know I've read this, but the fact that I can hardly remember a thing about it probably says a lot about what I thought of it :roll: ! Not one of EBD's better books ...
Author:  Sunglass [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
Very interesting to hear it was published by a Sunday School Prize-type specialist publisher - makes a lot of sense of the desperately heavy-handed God-bothering of this one. It makes the elements of preaching in the later CS books look positively subtle by comparison! Interesting that the admirable foundress Martha Rideout, oddly, is probably ruder to a clergyman than anyone else in EBD (shades of Granny from Gay from China in her speech?):
Quote:
“I was brought up a Quaker,” she told the startled vicar of the village near which the house stood. “Maybe I’m too energetic to be a good Quaker. In any case, the nearest Meeting House is twenty-two miles away. I guess I’ll have to make do with your ministrations.”


It interested me that, although Martha Rideout is determined her girls shouldn't be 'bluestockings' that there is much more focus on the academic work and exams of the Sixths than in virtually any of the CS books:
Quote:
The two Sixths did not see a great deal of the younger girls and this second term of the school year, they were all hard at work.

There's none of the CS expectation of putting your academic work second to your prefect duties, and there are instances of the Head relieving scholarship exam takers of their prefectly duties! The shock! (And the other shock for the CS reader is that, while we're supposed to disapprove of Iris's 'ill-bred' response to the nasty bun, the bun is genuinely over-bicarbed and disgusting - unlike Karen's perennially perfect cooking!)

Agree that the snobbery plot is strange. It's as though EBD has decided that she didn't want to implicate either of Iris's parents, so makes the governess the villain. I mean, I can easily believe a governess is as likely to be a snob as anyone else - Charlotte Bronte's letters pullulate with disdain at the 'vulgar' nouveau riche family for whom she worked. But I would have said social anxiety in Miss Selby's case would be more likely to focus on the governess's own ambiguous social position, rather than obsessing Iris with 'how old' the Lyall family is - and if she's taught Iris to be a snob, surely that snobbery would eventually lead Iris to see the irony of being taught to look down on others by someone who is technically her social inferior...? And, as others have said, why doesn't her mother notice over six years or so of constant contact with Iris and the governess?

My favourite bits about this one are the little things that are different to the CS, or that we never hear about at the CS - like the fact we're told that after tea, the girls have to go to their dormitories, take off their counterpanes and lay out their nightclothes - not sure why this can't wait till bedtime...? Or the emphasis on girls who are at the school on a scholarship, or who need to work particularly hard to take scholarship exams to go to university. I know we hear in Adrienne that there are CS scholarships awarded on the basis of financial need, but we don't really get a sense of scholarship holders as a category, other than individual awards like the Gays' scholarship (do we ever know who gets it after Ros?) and Joey's own.
Author:  Kathy_S [ Tue May 26, 2009 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
Definitely meant for religious education, but relatively inoffensive as far as the message is concerned. (Yes, I've read much more heavy-handed and sectarian representatives, including some put out all too recently.) I was actually a bit amused by the similarity of their prayer to our rhyming 1960s Catholic school version:
Dear God, I offer Thee this day,
All I think or do or say....

As far as making the governess the villain is concerned, I don't think it was original with EBD. I believe the usual backstory is that educating Important Family means that governess is at the top of the governess tree. Sadly, I can't think of a specific example at the moment, since you can't really count modern fantasy in which insinuating a nanny to turn princess into snob is an Enemy Plot.(Mercedes Lackey, Arrows of the Queen) Fraulein Rottenmeier from Heidi comes to mind, but isn't quite right either.
Author:  LauraMcC [ Tue May 26, 2009 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
Alison H wrote:
I know I've read this, but the fact that I can hardly remember a thing about it probably says a lot about what I thought of it :roll: ! Not one of EBD's better books ...


Snap! I can remember the title, but that's about it, but the rest of the book seems to have disappeared into the dark depths of my memory. And I only read it in January... :shock:
Author:  JB [ Tue May 26, 2009 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
Laura wrote:

Quote:
Alison H wrote:I know I've read this, but the fact that I can hardly remember a thing about it probably says a lot about what I thought of it ! Not one of EBD's better books ...

Snap! I can remember the title, but that's about it, but the rest of the book seems to have disappeared into the dark depths of my memory. And I only read it in January...


Me too. I'd read it a few years ago but I remembered nothing of it when I read it at the weekend.
Author:  JayB [ Tue May 26, 2009 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
I skimmed through this last night. I thought it was recognisably EBD - 'Matey', a Mdlle who was a member of the French Alpine Club, the attention to the details of daily routine, packing, etc.

But I thought the story was very slight. In the CS there's usually a lot more going on than just the reform of the new girl. And I thought the idea of the snobbish governess was a bit dated for a story published in 1956, but maybe EBD had written it some time before. I think it's only the mention of flying which specifically dates it to the 1950s. The rest of it is pretty generic.

And Iris's running away, the pivotal point of the story, is barely there. Did she do it because she was unhappy? Because she wanted to damage the school's reputation?

Was the rest of the Vth in trouble over their treatment of her which brought it about? They would never have escaped a lecture in CS-land. I might have missed it here in my skimming.

As for Matey's treatment of her heavy cold - surely it'd have gone away in four days anyway, with nothing more aggressive than rest and aspirin.

I did like Anthea and I wouldn't have minded reading a whole book about her, but I doubt I'll revisit this one.

I see Richenda, which also has a Quaker background, was published two years after this. I wonder if this book sparked the idea for Ricki's background, or if EBD had just been reading or hearing about Quakers generally about this time.
Author:  Sunglass [ Tue May 26, 2009 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
JayB wrote:
As for Matey's treatment of her heavy cold - surely it'd have gone away in four days anyway, with nothing more aggressive than rest and aspirin.


Absolutely! The 'heroic treatment' is mind-blowing - boiling baths, aggressive over-heating with hotwater bottles, heated blankets and shawls to the point where Iris spends a whole day in what sounds like fairly major sweaty discomfort, forbidden to move even a fingertip out of the blankets, quite apart from gargling and throat spray - all for a cold!

Quote:
She woke up on the Monday morning to find the cold gone and, as Matron pointed out triumphantly, without going through the rest of the school.


But even if she'd done nothing for Iris other than isolate her from the rest of the school, surely the result would have been the same?

I know ideas about treatment vary - the NHS guidelines for treating high temperature from flu or colds now specifically warn against keeping the person or the room too warm - but it's hard not to see this as treatment-as-punishment, especially things like the fact that 'rough, hairy' blankets are put next to her skin - I appreciate the idea was to overheat Iris, but why not put a warmed sheet between her and the blankets, so she isn't dealing with itchiness as well as heat?

And I have to say I get slightly maddened by EBD's matrons continually scolding sick girls for the trouble they are causing them, as when the Martha Rideout matron seems to see Iris's illness as part of her bad behaviour:

Quote:
... you’ve made a perfect nuisance of yourself and given me extra work when I have plenty as it is, goodness knows!


That would be slightly like me complaining that my students will insist on attending my office hours, or sitting exams and expecting me to mark them - those things are in my job description! But EBD's matrons often have odd attitudes towards mistresses and even the most senior girls - this matron grabs a busy head girl from her duties and puts her to work carrying trunk trays around:
Quote:
It mattered nothing to Matron, that Dorothea was Head Girl. She regarded the lot as children — and tiresome children all too frequently.


It reminds me of the CS Matey's appalling rudeness to Nancy Wilmot as Acting Head... Why does a complete disrespect for authority seem to be seen as a good thing in matrons?
Author:  Loryat [ Wed May 27, 2009 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
I remember reading this on transcript but I can't really remember much about it, except I found it far too Godly. Actually I'm very surprised to learn that it was published in the fifties, since for some reason I had assumed it was one of her earlier efforts (and I don't mean that as a compliment).
Author:  JS [ Wed May 27, 2009 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: A Leader in Spite of Herself
Sunglass wrote:
Quote:
Charlotte Bronte's letters pullulate with disdain at the 'vulgar' nouveau riche family for whom she worked


Haven't read the book so can't contribute. Just wanted to say I liked this phrase from Sunglass! Most expressive.
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