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Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
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Author:  Fiona Mc [ Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Joey & Co in Tyrol is the second of the ‘holiday’ books EBD wrote in the Chalet School series and the first in Tyrol. It was published in 1960, along with Ruey Richardson: Chaletian. It was republished four times and remained unabridged with all printings.

After Mike goes down a cliff and Joey collapses; Joey, and half her family go to the Tyrol for a holiday. They meet the Richardson’s who are incorporated into the Maynard family when Professor Richardson disappears to pursues his dream to fly to the moon.

The theme we will be focusing on is growing up.

We also see a continuation of the triplets growing up after their showdown with Mary Lou in Theodora. Do we really see the triplets grow independently over these holidays or is this more noticeable later on. The three refer to it obliquely from time to time in subsequent books and Margot is still apologising for it weeks later (the event happened over Half Term). Len is still very clearly the one they all lean on or turn to in a crisis. Is it likely that regardless of what Mary Lou says, Len will be able to let her family go and not always take on that responsibility, even with her triplet sisters?

We also see another side to Joey and Jack Maynard and their surprising immaturity and Len in contrast, extreme maturity. Joey, despite having a difficult pregnancy insists on taking her entire eleven children out for a walk, seven weeks after having twins. She manages to hold it together when Mike is down the side of the cliff and gets him back up again, but then promptly faints, leaving the responsibility to Len, who has to take charge of 10 younger siblings and a Mother who is unconscious. Len handles the responsibility extremely well- gets help and sends the younger kids to Biddy’s. Joey is forced to rest by Madge, Jem and Jack and refuses to take any of their concerns seriously. When Madge mentions that everyone is angry with Mike, especially Jack, Joey does handle the situation better and insists Mike is told and shown he’s forgiven. Joey however, does not think putting all that responsibility onto Len is a bad thing, despite the fact she herself couldn’t handle it and fainted in the midst of everything.

Jack, explodes at Mike for disobeying a direct order and refuses to speak to Mike. It is Len again, who helps Mike through his nightmares. Jack hands over his responsibility for his son to his fourteen year old daughter, and comes around after his wife insists. Jack rarely loses his temper. The only two events are when Margot is caught blackmailing Ted and when Mike disobeys a direct rule. Both events trigger a very immature response from Jack and he appears to regress. The two main triggers appear to be Joey being seriously ill with her pregnancy and disobedience. Does Jack have unresolved issues from his nephew dying as a result of disobedience or from losing loved ones that he reacts the way he does and therefore will regress in this way, especially if Joey is in danger?

Jack is fiercely protective of his wife and will protect her at all opportunities, rather than force her to grow up and take on her responsibilities, she should. By doing this, Len above all others, is forced to take on responsibilities ahead of what she should have as a fourteen year old. How well does Len handle this? What affect does this have on her, especially when Mary Lou (and latterly Hilda) had previously told her not to the previous term?

Roger, Ruey and Roddy are forced to grow up earlier than most teenagers, as their Father tends to leave them to their own devices, while he pursues his dream of going into space. How do you think this affects the three of them? Roger is clearly in charge and can see further than the two younger ones, as he is worried about Ruey growing up without the influence of a woman. Is this justified? Valid?

Ruey changes and grows over the summer and is encouraged to take an interest in her appearance. Joey buys her clothes she needs, but then leaves it to the influence of her daughters. Did Joey handle the situation well by leaving it to Len to talk about hair and prayers, or would it have been better for Joey to discuss this with her? Is taking an interest in her appearance a natural part of growing up, which Ruey would have started anyway, or did it need a gentle push in the right direction from a female adult.

The three Richardson’s also start to see their Father in a new light. They have always tacitly acknowledged his interest in space travel, but always moved on with their own lives. Joey especially, helps them to see Professor Richardson’s obsession from his point of view and to accept that part of him, without rejecting their Father in the process. This further develops in Ruey Richardson- Chaletian.

Please discuss this and anything else in relation to growing up.
Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Fiona Mc, I think that's an excellent summary of the uncomfortable family dynamics of the Maynards at this point in the series. The interesting bit for me, as ever, is that EBD can't possibly have intended us to see it this way - she clearly still genuinely believes she is presenting in this novel an 'ideal' family, in contrast to the Richardsons, with their neglectful father, rough housekeeping, and lack of a female role model! And, as ever, this is why I think EBD is a much more interesting writer than she sets out to be...

The 'teaching Ruey femininity' plotline is interesting, too. Maybe because, for once, EBD gives us a close-up view on the switch from the 'it's OK to be a tomboy' phase of a girl's life to the 'young woman who should be taking care of her appearance' phase. (How old is Ruey, actually?) Whereas in other books, we've more or less been allowed to assume this transition happens 'naturally', but offstage - are we to imagine it happens at home over the holidays, guided by mothers? It's hard to imagine Matey doing more than enforcing tidiness, which may be why this bit has to happen in the holidays inside the family...?

Most of the time, tomboyishness actually at the CS has been seen as a good thing - Madge is thrilled to see Joey being untidy and active, because it means she's healthier, and Elisaveta's torn dresses and scratched knees are a sign of freedom from Court. And of course, it's seen as much better than Joan Baker's interest in her looks. But here tomboyishness stops being OK, and the girl needs to be taught to take care over her appearance, down to matching underthings etc - in Ruey's case, even though she's not interested. Is this definitely a development of the later part of the series? Because I think Joey was still ink-spattered and untidy-haired at this stage in her life, which suggests things have changed...? (And might this be why the detailed instruction is left to Len? Might the CS reader remember that Joey aged 15 or so was pretty scruffy a lot of the time in the holidays?)

I find it interesting that it's presented - though outside of school - as essentially Len sheepdogging a new girl about the rules! Her tips about night prayers and hair-brushing aren't suggestions, but new rules, it seems to me! Ruey has joined the Maynards as a new girl, so she has to conform, and even wear a new uniform!

The EB book it always reminds me of is Six Cousins at Mistletoe Farm, where scruffy, horsy Jane struggles to be more conventionally feminine, stop biting her nails, brush her hair, not smell of horse etc! But in her case, she changes because she's humiliated by a visiting Alpha Male's horror at her grubbiness, compared to her well-groomed cousin Melisande, whereas EBD seems to feel you have to do it because you have to do it. (And EB shows her male characters also having to change in that book, whereas EBD doesn't seem to feel Roger and Roddy have any changes to make...)

Oh, and the bit where the triplets piously express their horror at the lack of tablecloths and prettiness at the Richardson's chalet and start an immediate makeover strikes me as one of the most unintentionally funny bits in the series!
Author:  Alison H [ Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I think there are some lovely bits in this. Growing up in CS-land is often presented in a hair up, skirts down way as meaning that you have to put your days of mucking around and having a laugh behind you and become all serious and responsible. In this book, we see that it can also mean things like shopping for nice clothes and a boy (six foot of manhood in exiguous bathing trunks - sorry, just had to mention that!) thinking you're pretty. I half-expect one of the triplets to put some 1950s records on a gramophone and everyone to have a dance: it's a very long way from the world in which growing up means a family friend asking your dad if it'd be OK for him to propose to you when you're 18.

Gold star for Jem is this book (sorry, I've spent my life being told I'm fat so I appreciate this!) for telling Madge that she doesn't need to lose weight and is fine as she is: I know we only get that conversation second hand but again it's really normal - worrying about losing weight for a family wedding is something that most people do.

On the down side, I find Jack's behaviour very unnerving. He is understandably annoyed about Mike's carelessness leading to an accident (falling down a cliff), but he seems annoyed that Mike did something that upset Joey rather than that Mike did something which could have caused him to be killed or seriously injured. & we've just discussed the appendicitis episode in another thread but I think that that says something worrying about how the Maynard family operates. & I think Ruey must be incredibly sweet-natured not to tell the triplets where to shove their suggestions about making the room "pretty" (when she's trying to look after herself and 3 other people), when she should and shouldn't brush her hair and how she ought to say her prayers at night. I really do dislike the scene in which Len nags Ruey about praying (maybe a bossy aunt or grandparent would act like that, but Len is a girl of Ruey's own age) - although I find it very amusing that Ruey clearly doesn't take it seriously. &, yes, they do seem obsessed with rules, and it doesn't bode well for how they'll cope when they leave school.

There are quite a few indicators as to how things are going to develop in the post-Mary-Lou era - the Maynards will randomly collect children, new characters will turn out to be long-lost relatives of old ones, there will be strange storylines such as the one about the spaceship, most of the MBR clan will be sidelined as there are now too many of them to keep track of (Peggy and Bride both get engaged in this book and more or less vanish off the scene after Peggy's wedding) and Len will be expected to be the leader.

This is probably making something out of absolutely nothing, but it upsets me a bit when Jack tells Roger that Anna, "our maid" will come and sit with him. I'm not sure how else he could have put it - although Marie is usually referred to as the Russells "housekeeper", which sounds much more dignified - but "our maid" just sounds like a rather dismissive way of describing a women in her mid-30s who has been with the family for many years and helped to bring up all the children. I'm not sure what else he could have said, but it just annoys me somehow!
Author:  sealpuppy [ Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I had never read this book until Abi lent it to me recently (thanks, Abi :D ) so it's really new to me. I think it's an odd book, in many ways. There's a footnote whenever a mention is made of some early exploit - surely the only book where EBD does this? and it almost feels as though she wrote down a list of accidents/excursions/jolly japes, etc, then wondered what kind of plot to weave around them. Pity the space travel slid into her brain though; he could easily have been an absent-minded nuclear physicist who blew himself up. More plausible than taking off in space.

I love the holiday books, Jo to the Rescue is my all-time favourite CS book, and I only read Future CS Girl earlier this year. That book, I think, is particularly good as it shows the Maynards in such a normal light. OK they've got a minibus and hordes of e xtra kids, but the family life is so well described with Jack getting exasperated and the dog and kids being sick. I was hoping for something similar with Joey & Co but it doesn't quite come off, for the reasons outlined by Fiona.

Bearing in mind Jo takes about a month in bed and confined to barracks when Cecil is born, I was astonished to find her tramping up a mountain and clambering over rocks. Even more so, to find she had marched Roger along with them - a boy whose leg had barely recovered from being sliced to the bone. And interestingly, the twins are clearly bottle fed, rather than the usual 'babies needing a little attention and being made comfortable.' Wonder what caused that?

I think my irritation is directed mainly at EBD's editor. Did nobody ever go through her manuscripts? Surely someone could have pointed out how unlikely the whole thing is? A lot of the annoying, dangerous and illogical behaviour has to be put down to EBD's complete lack of understanding about running a family, having babies, etc. Like the twins starting to get teeth aged about 12 weeks. I know some babies are this early but I suspect it's just EBD assuming Jo's children would be mega-advanced.

I agree with Alison though, there are some lovely bits here and there and I was so pleased to discover events I've only read as references.

NB Re the 'making the house pretty'. I'm pretty much a slut with regard to housework but I love doing the House Doctor thing and in the Triplets' shoes I don't think I could have resisted the temptation to tweak and fiddle. Might not have been quite so vocal about it though...
Author:  Nesomja [ Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I'm just reading this for the first time, and the whole Maynard family dynamics do amaze me - Joey treated like an invalid by everyone and half the children are shipped off to relatives for the holidays (after the Mike incident, to give Joey a break), despite the fact they are all at boarding school and so won't see their parents for months afterwards. At least Joey does protest as Madge tries to effectively banish Mike for months as punishment for his escapade. It seems so strange that Joey ends up with a large family who she sends to boarding school at the earliest opportunity when the whole idea behind the CS was that Joey and Madge would not have to be split up! If Madge had had the same attitude that Joey has then the CS would never have started as Joey would already be at boarding school from about the age of 8!

I know it's of the time but it does also annoy me how everyone expects Ruey to do all the work - and she is judged to be doing it badly because their chalet isn't pretty. No one suggests that Roger or Roddy should be keeping house at all.
Author:  mohini [ Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I did not like this book and uptill now did not even think of rereading it.
I liked the fact that Ruey is taking care of her family.
But apart from that it was the most unbelievable book in the series apart from the one with Mystic M which I never liked.
I feel Len matured quite early because of the mishaps and her mother.
It is good to have a young mother when you are a kid. But in your teens, if your mother insists on behaving as if she is a teen.........
The trips will have to grow up because they cannot turn to their parents for support they need.
I liked the idea of Len instructing Ruey. Ruey would listen to Len as they are of same age.
Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Nesomja wrote:
It seems so strange that Joey ends up with a large family who she sends to boarding school at the earliest opportunity when the whole idea behind the CS was that Joey and Madge would not have to be split up! If Madge had had the same attitude that Joey has then the CS would never have started as Joey would already be at boarding school from about the age of 8!


You're right. It only makes 'sense' in terms of EBD's needs as an author - she needs Joey to have loads of children, because she sees that as an important aspect of her adult persona, yet there's no possibility of distinguishing them all as characters because there are far too many of them, so the majority need to be banished to either the nursery or boarding school for most of the time!

Which 'works' in terms of the needs of the series from its author's point of view, as it concentrates on Joey and then on Joey and the school-age triplets, but which does risk pointing up the differences between Joey's own upbringing and her children's. OK, it was entirely usual for children to board or live lives semi-detached from their parents even while still at home, but as you say, it's hard not to draw comparisons, especially as Joey and Jack pride themselves on parenting differently and not doing things the usual way.

If, for instance, money wasn't such an issue for the young Bettanys, and Joey wasn't fragile, would Madge have bunged her in a boarding-school aged eight and got a job, or even gone with Dick to India, leaving Joey to stay with 'the aunts' in holidays...? If one of the Maynard boys was delicate, would Joey and Jack have kept him at Freudesheim with a tutor or something? (Isn't Charles delicate at one point? But clearly not enough for the climate of England to be damaging to him...?) And I'm always a bit taken aback by Mike, aged 5, being sent to live with the Emburys. OK good 'reasons' are mentioned for it in the text - sharing a tutor, Mike's isolation etc - but it's hard to see past EBD's interest in getting as many of Joey's children out of the way as possible!

The sheer number of Maynards (plus wards) always strike me in Joey and Co in Tyrol (and A Future,) because EBD has to go to such lengths to get rid of the boys and the babies so she can just write about Joey, the triplets and Ruey/Melanie!

On the Ruey and housework thing - isn't she doing all this solo, also, with no help? I think in her position, I'd have been acidly pointing out that a family with copious domestic help can afford pretty touches around the house, but that it's a quite different situation when a teenage girl is coping alone with an abstracted father and two unhelpful boys...
Author:  Alison H [ Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Grizel, whose family seem to have been better off that the Bettanys and would presumably have had no trouble affording boarding school fees, attended the High School in Taverton, and Mr and Mrs Cochrane seem to have felt that it would have reflected badly on the family had she been sent away - it was only socially acceptable to send her to the Chalet School as Madge was a close friend and therefore it wasn't quite the same as sending Grizel away to strangers. Maybe that was just because people could see that she (Grizel) was unhappy at home and'd assume that she'd been sent away because of trouble behind closed doors rather than for the sake of her education or to meet new people, but it was still a very different attitude to the idea that boarding school is the norm for people of a particular social class.
Author:  bonnie [ Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I think you're right, Alison, that in Grizel's case the reason for not sending her to boarding school, as Mrs Cochrane wanted, was because Mrs Cochrane had just arrived in the family and if Grizel were sent away immediately People Might Talk - in other words they would assume that she and Grizel were not getting on. Also, Mr Cochrane did say that the reason he remarried was because he wanted Grizel at home and for Mrs Cochrane to be her mother, which I always thought rather unfair as he'd never informed her that this was to be part of the arrangement!
Author:  Tor [ Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
It has just properly struck me, reading Fiona' summary, that the triplets are only fourteen!!! I can't quite believe this, really. It may have taken me 20 years to finally place why I am so deeply, deeply uncomfortable with the CS books post- Theodora, but this might be it.

Blimey, Len is really too old for her age. EBD should have listened to OOAO and Hilda and let Len (and Con and Margot) relax and regress a little. Everything about them is so serious.. Margot isn't just naughty, she is nasty; Con isn't just absent minded, she is tactless and thoughtless (apparently); Len is a fusspot, and I never imagine her smiling for some reason. In fact I imagine all of them to have serious eyes.

If you were to ask me to describe a typical 14-year old CS girl, my reaction would be harum-scarum, nice naughtiness. This does not describe the Triplets one little bit.

Contrasting the Richardson's and the Maynard's is interesting. Apart from numbers of children and amount of ready cash, both seem to be characterized by absentee parents, with the major responsible role being shouldered by the eldest daughter, ultimately to the detriment of helath and well-being of another family member....
Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Tor wrote:
Contrasting the Richardson's and the Maynard's is interesting. Apart from numbers of children and amount of ready cash, both seem to be characterized by absentee parents, with the major responsible role being shouldered by the eldest daughter, ultimately to the detriment of helath and well-being of another family member....


I thought exactly the same thing reading Fiona Mc's summary, but thought it was too cynical a thought for the CBB, so didn't say so! It's true, though - the two families are presented as polar opposites, but in fact there are some uncomfortable similarities, as you say, in terms of absentee parenting (whether mental or physical) and the 'naturalisation' of one girl as the carer.

In fact, it occurs to me that you could read Ruey's story as a kind of resolution of some things EBD does seem to have half-consciously registered as problematic in Len's (by the way Len is later characterised as 'fussy', morbid and self-blaming, and shrinks from prefectship) - Ruey is a Len who is 'rescued' from having to be the responsible one and take care of everything, and encouraged to take care of herself and buy frocks, for a change!

Only of course Ruey is 'rescued' by a family who themselves lean far too heavily upon their own eldest daughter, despite two living parents and a lot of domestic help. But of course, with Len already in place, Ruey doesn't have to take on a Len role inside the Maynard household, as she did at home. Perhaps being nagged about hair-brushing and praying was actually a small price to pay for having the cares of the entire Richardson household lifted off her shoulders...?

Only of course, Ruey is adding to Len's burden - sharing her room and needing to be sheepdogged by her... It's very interesting!
Author:  Millie1986 [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Tor wrote:
It has just properly struck me, reading Fiona' summary, that the triplets are only fourteen!!! I can't quite believe this, really. It may have taken me 20 years to finally place why I am so deeply, deeply uncomfortable with the CS books post- Theodora, but this might be it.

Blimey, Len is really too old for her age. EBD should have listened to OOAO and Hilda and let Len (and Con and Margot) relax and regress a little. Everything about them is so serious.. Margot isn't just naughty, she is nasty; Con isn't just absent minded, she is tactless and thoughtless (apparently); Len is a fusspot, and I never imagine her smiling for some reason. In fact I imagine all of them to have serious eyes.

If you were to ask me to describe a typical 14-year old CS girl, my reaction would be harum-scarum, nice naughtiness. This does not describe the Triplets one little bit.


I haven't read Joey and Co, but I agree with what you have said about the triplets generally. But then I was thinking about it, and even at school they don't get a chance to be normal school girls/naughty middles. They are put into Inter V, a Senior form, when they are still 12. And Inter V are constantly reminding each other in New Mistress that they are Seniors now, and must behave like Seniors etc etc. Which is all very well for the girls who are 15 or so, but the triplets are 12/13 that year. EBD generally seems to have her naughtiest Middles at 13/14, and by that time the triplets are in Vb. So they never really get a chance to be children, even at school, as CS Seniors are generally expected to be fairly responsible. And then at home they are expected to be responsible and look after the others, particularly Len, because they are the eldest. So they get no chance to just be children after the age of 12 really. I always think it is funny the way the triplets are whizzed through the forms so quickly, when there is talk in all the books about how no girl must ever work themselves too hard, because health comes first, etc etc. Are we supposed to think that the triplets are so much more intelligent than all the other CS girls that they can do the same work as girls 2 years or more older as easily as the older girls or what?
Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Millie1986 wrote:
... they are put into Inter V, a Senior form, when they are still 12. And Inter V are constantly reminding each other in New Mistress that they are Seniors now, and must behave like Seniors etc etc. Which is all very well for the girls who are 15 or so, but the triplets are 12/13 that year. EBD generally seems to have her naughtiest Middles at 13/14, and by that time the triplets are in Vb. So they never really get a chance to be children, even at school, as CS Seniors are generally expected to be fairly responsible. And then at home they are expected to be responsible and look after the others, particularly Len, because they are the eldest.


It's very obvious when you put it like that, though it hadn't struck me quite so forcibly. And again, when you compare their schooldays with Joey's, the difference is huge, given that she was still playing tricks and bringing down the ceilings of dormitories and flouring hair etc when she was a prefect! Her period of allowable school fun goes on much longer than even an ordinary, non-MBR girl's does by the Swiss school (when naughtiness has become unacceptable by the time you're a Senior), but the triplets never really get one at all.

Do we ever see any of the triplets involved in a silly prank? And their form and the quality of their schoolwork, and Margot 'lagging behind' (in a form suitable to her age!) is always such a big deal - it makes their schooldays sound so joyless compared to Joey's! I know times have changed, and more is expected academically of girls, and the triplets are all headed to university, but you'd think a former naughty schoolgirl like Joey, who likes nothing better than recalling her own exploits and who sends her daughters to her own beloved school, would be alert to the differences, instead of issuing those rather serious little lectures over the reports about the importance of steady work etc etc. That she might want her daughters to be engaged in a little harmless fun, especially given her strong feeling about 'keeping girls young'...?

In fact, in some ways, if EBD was less obsessed with Joey as Perfect Mother, it would be easy enough to imagine Joey's madcap legends inspiring at least one of the triplets (Margot, I suppose?) to try to live up to the legendary mischief, in the same way someone like Polly Heriot tries to live out school stories...?
Author:  Alison H [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I think EBD just made life very complicated for herself with the triplets. She could have set the cut-off age for Switzerland at 10 or 11 - the school had juniors in Tyrol and it wasn't a problem then - and kept the triplets in a form with girls their own age, and had Josette, Jo Scott and some of the others as a strong group in between Mary-Lou's gang and the triplets. The triplets and their friends dominate most of the books from New Mistress onwards, which is about a quarter of the series, and it's too much. Then, at the end, when most of their friends have left school, instead of sending them to St Mildred's and switching the focus to either Ailie's gang or Jack's gang, she has to keep the triplets at the main school. They must have spent about 3 years doing the same work!
Author:  Mel [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I never get the idea that the triplets are too advanced for Middle School work so have to be shunted into Inter V. They are good at languages, but there are French and German speaking girls who must be even better. None are Maths geniuses and how can you be advanced at English? They can't have read/studied every book or even had the time to study advanced grammar/literary features. The other subjects are fact-based so it is impossible to be advanced until you have covered the topics. Len and Con at least, will go through life having 'missed' the Stuarts/Hanoverians or whatever simply because they moved up when that period was being taught.
Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I think the problem here, as has been said before, is that EBD never entirely takes on the triplets as characters in their own right - she continues to see them as aspects or attributes of Joey. Which is why they need to be, in many ways, token perfect CS girls, with their entertainingly different looks and their triplethood, speeding up through the school at a ludicrous rate, because it confers glory on Joey and her parenting. The problem is that this is very much EBD's idea of glory, and doesn't really fit with Joey's character at all!

Joey was academically uneven, even poor at the majority of subjects, during her own schooldays, and in fact, far from seeming to regret that as an adult, she's actually a bit snide about whichever very studious girl in one of the late books who comes to a sheets and pillowcase party at Freudesheim as a 'Student' - there's some rather cutting little remark, from what I remember. Added to her decided preference for keeping her girls young and her permanent nostalgia for the pranks and high-jinks of her own schooldays, her hatred of the idea of growing up, and her reluctance to be HG or leave school, you'd think it was the perfect recipe for a slightly madcap mother who would actually enjoy her own daughters' harmless school fun.

But instead, she's practically Headmistressy in that scene where we see her going through the triplets' reports with them - you could replace her name with Hilda's and it wouldn't change the scene at all!

Maybe the issue is that EBD still identifies so strongly with Joey, rather than her daughters, that she's unwilling to have them surpass her in mischief, only in academic terms...? Which of course don't add to 'CS legend' at all the way Joey's own exploits did.
Author:  Sarah_G-G [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I wonder if EBD just wanted the triplets in the Senior school asap to make sure that she could get them all the way through school by the end of the series. Admittedly that argument falls down slightly when you consider how many years they spent in the 6th form, but could it be that by Changes she knew the only logical place to end things properly was with the triplets finishing school so she made sure taht they were shunted up the ranks in order to be certain of being able to finish the series? Only then for whatever reason she discovered she could write more books at the end, resulting in the triplets staying in the 6th form for a ridiculous length of time. :dontknow: I'm just trying to work out what the benefits were in having the triplets as Seniors so early on. It's weird because if she'd kept them as Middles then through most of the Swiss books she could have had Mary-Lou and co as the Senior gang and the triplets and their friends as the troublesome Middles, which I'd have thought would have worked far better, really. Logically it makes no sense that the triplets should be so advanced for their age, especially as we're told often that Len and Con aren't brilliantly clever, just ordinary hardworking intelligent girls. Unless of course their school in Canada had given them a far better education than the CS did..? :devil:

I have to admit, I always forget the triplets are only 14 in this book. At the same age Joey wasn't expected to be anywhere near as mature. In fact even leaving Joey aside in case she was an exception, wasn't Grizel about 14 in School at? I suppose you can make a case for the triplets seeming more mature in CS terms because they'd been brought up with those traditions and beliefs from infancy, but even so Len in this book seems more like a mature-for-her-age 16 year old to me.

I do have a soft spot for this book because it's one of the first ones I owned and I do like Ruey as a character. I like the fact that she does seem quite mature in some ways, particularly in her willingness to go along with what she's being told to do, but often with a slight sense of amusement or detachment. A younger girl could have been severely offended by some of the things she's being told to change about herself, but Ruey takes it all in good part. In terms of growing up though, I would actually have liked to see Ruey point out to the triplets the difficulties of running a home at her age- it would have been interesting to see the triplets take something away from the situation as well, and think about how just because their version of housework might involve little more than making things neat and pretty, for someone like Ruey there was a lot more work to be done. Perhaps they could have learnt something about coping without servants, and even maybe the unfairness of a family of four leaving all the housework to a 15 year old girl, just because the rest of the family happened to be male.
Author:  Alison H [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Cosimo's Jackal wrote:
I think the problem here, as has been said before, is that EBD never entirely takes on the triplets as characters in their own right - she continues to see them as aspects or attributes of Joey.


She even does that with Mary-Lou sometimes! We get several people making remarks about how Mary-Lou is "a chip off the old block" and just like Joey. Mary-Lou is nothing like Joey (that's no criticism of either of them, just a point that they have very different personalities) and, even if she were, why on earth should she be compared to someone who has no connection with her other than having briefly been her neighbour? It's as if EBD couldn't bear to have a main character who wasn't connected with Joey :roll: .
Author:  Josette [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I rather think EBD identifies so strongly with Joey (OK not "identifies with" so much as "would like to be" her) that she gives Joey the idealised childhood from the child's point of view - lack of parental restriction, no pressure to be academic or grow up too fast - whereas with the triplets she sees them from a parent's point of view and wants them to be the sort of children a parent would boast about - clever, beautiful, and with the eldest being responsible to a fault.
Author:  Nesomja [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
On a slightly unrelated note, who is 'the coadjudacator' who keeps cropping up with Anna in this book? I've never heard the word before!
Author:  janetbrown23 [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
I've always assumed its Rosli.
Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey & Co in Tyrol- Growing up
Josette wrote:
I rather think EBD identifies so strongly with Joey (OK not "identifies with" so much as "would like to be" her) that she gives Joey the idealised childhood from the child's point of view - lack of parental restriction, no pressure to be academic or grow up too fast - whereas with the triplets she sees them from a parent's point of view and wants them to be the sort of children a parent would boast about - clever, beautiful, and with the eldest being responsible to a fault.


I think that's exactly right. EBD has moved her focus to identify with Joey as mother, so she gives her stellar offspring who (almost always) reflect credit on their mother, the kind of clever, high-achieving, responsible, good-looking, hard-working children she imagines any woman would want. I know Margot is at times far from perfect, but EBD is also very careful to show Margot's worst excesses taking place at school, where the CS authorities or Mary-Lou have to be the ones to deal with them, or, failing that, Jack - Joey is definitely shielded from the most unideal aspects of her 'problem' daughter. And, of course, that problem daughter is going to redeem herself as a missionary nun.


Nesomja wrote:
On a slightly unrelated note, who is 'the coadjudacator' who keeps cropping up with Anna in this book? I've never heard the word before!


Just Rosli. Apparently Bill told Jack she'd found a coadjutor (assistant) for Anna - the younger sister of one of the St Mildred's maids - and the triplets and Primula overheard the word and insisted on calling the poor girl that forever after, and it got adapted by the entire family. Which I always think is kind of appalling - it's OK that some kids are amused by a new word, but I don't get why the adults don't point out sharpish that it's a pretty rude way of referring to someone who has a name of her own. It would be like calling Anna 'the maid' all the time!

Though it occurs to me that it may have been EBD's own confusion about what precisely Rosli's role was to be, exactly. She's described as Anna's coadjutor, not Joey's, which suggests she's as much as general servant as a sort of Mother's Help...?
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