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Girls Own: EBD and DFB
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6763
Author:  abbeybufo [ Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Girls Own: EBD and DFB
Dorita Fairlie Bruce (DFB) was born in Spain on 20 May 1885. The family soon moved back to Scotland, her father’s homeland, and she lived in Ealing, West London from 1895 until her father’s death in 1949, when she moved back to the Scotland she had known as a young girl, and which she had only been able to visit for holidays in the intervening years. During the Ealing years, the Bruce family knew the Dunkerleys – Elsie Oxenham’s family – probably through their church, though they had their Scottish roots as a common factor too. DFB died in Largs, Ayrshire, in 1970.

DFB produced several school series; Dimsie is probably her best known, comprising – eventually – nine titles; then comes Nancy also with nine, and Springdale with six. There are three in the Sally series and three in the Toby series. In addition there is a loose series of nine books known as the Colmskirk Sequence, some of which are historical, and the last of which tells of the later life of one of the characters from the Springdale series, but all are set in 'Colmskirk', a fictionalised Largs. The Springdale novels are also set in Largs, but the town is here called 'Redchurch'. What is more, and to add to the confusion, the adult Dimsie appears in some of the Springdale books, the adult Primula and Anne from Springdale appear in the last Dimsie book and someone from Maudsley – one of the schools Nancy attends – appears in the last Toby title!

DFB does not shy away from dealing with the World Wars – the denouement of the first Dimsie book turns on events that had happened during WWI, and the last Dimsie, the last Nancy and the last Toby all take place during WWII.

DFB’s books were reprinted, and sometimes rather haphazardly ‘updated’, into the 1980s, but they did not appear in paperback. They were also translated into several European languages, including Swedish and Norwegian.

Information on DFB and her books is available here on the site that Eva Löfgren, the Swedish expert on her life and work, created and maintains. There is also a small amount of information on Wikipedia.
I cannot find any transcripts, but summaries of a few of the Dimsies are here to give you a flavour.
Also, GGBP have been reprinting some of the rarer titles in DFB's output – see here.

A few questions to start us off (but please do throw in any of your ideas and questions):

    Have you read books by both DFB and EBD? Do you have a favourite? Which did you read first?
    What do you think of DFB’s schools compared with the Chalet School?
    Do the Anti-Soppists' tenets equate to Tom Gay’s ‘gentlemanly’ ideals?
    Does DFB’s characterisation suffer because her series are shorter than the CS series, or does the CS become so episodic by the end that EBD cannot keep her characters as constant as DFB is able to over the shorter span?

Please discuss these and any other points below.
Author:  JB [ Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
There are some transcripts of Dimsie short stories in circulation. PM me if you'd like a copy.

I'll think of a response to the rest of the points when I find my brain. I think I left it behind in one of the many meetings i've had this week.
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
This isn't very relevant to anything, but I find the setting of the first Dimsie book in 1919 fascinating - it's very interesting to see how Armistice Day was a day of celebration in that year, whereas now it (or the Sunday closest to it) is a day of remembrance and sombre ceremonials. The headmistress's comments about attitudes towards girls' education having changed because of the Great War and the idea now being to spend less time on sports and more time learning (a bit Miss Bubb-ish to that point) because their main function is to educate children (Miss Bubb at least never said that!) is "interesting" too :shock: .

The Anti-Soppists do have a lot in common with Tom Gay's ideas, but really Tom is the only CS book in which "grand passions", crushes on older girls and general soppiness occur (other than Simone's mildly obsessive behaviour towards Joey), whereas at "Jane's" they are much more of an issue. Like Kingscote, Malory Towers and most other fictional schools, the girls at Jane's are much nastier than the girls at the CS, and a lot more bullying/picking on people goes on - realistic, sadly, but the CS is much nicer for not being realistic in that respect!

In terms of similarities between DFB books and EBD books, I think DFB has the same problem with Dimsie as EBD does with Joey, in that she doesn't know how to carry on the series without her - although in terms of personality Dimsie is much more like Mary-Lou. Also, it all gets a bit incestuous with Dimsie's friends all marrying each other's brothers, a bit like Gisela and Bernhilda in the early CS books! And, of course, Dimsie gets to meet a nice doctor on a train :D . & I do wonder if Daphne's mother knew Captain and Mrs Carrick ...
Author:  Mel [ Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I have read the Dimsie and Springdale books and they are very engaging school stories with usually a group of kindly prefects (more so than many CS prefects Peggy for instance) and some attractive Juniors. The Head, Miss Yorke, is Madge-ish and has been said Dimsie is a central Joey-like character. The Anti-Soppists almost ring true except in one case where Dimsie kisses Miss Yorke's hand because she looks worried! EBD manages to pack more into her books, such as excursion, play, match, Sale etc which you don't get with DFB. Also the wrong-doing in DFB is often more serious - card-playing!
Author:  LizzieC [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
abbeybufo wrote:
I cannot find any transcripts, but summaries of a few of the Dimsies are here to give you a flavour.


The ones that've been done so far are here, for now, at least. I'll also be commenting more later, when my brain is inserted and it's not 1:30am :)
Author:  Fiona Mc [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I tried on DFB book and struggled to get into it at all. Though I do like the short stories she wrote which JB very kindly PMed awhile back. (Thanks JB :D ) and would recommend them
Author:  Miss Di [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
Funny to see this here today as I am currently re-reading the Nancy books. DFBs girls seem to work much harder at lessons the EBDs. None of this "Oh I think I shall read XXX at Oxford", her girls have to give up extra-curricular activities and really study hard. A bit like Josephine Elder makes her girls work hard to succeed.
Author:  abbeybufo [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
LizzieC wrote:
abbeybufo wrote:
I cannot find any transcripts, but summaries of a few of the Dimsies are here to give you a flavour.


The ones that've been done so far are here, for now, at least. I'll also be commenting more later, when my brain is inserted and it's not 1:30am :)


I fear I didn't look incredibly hard :oops: as I suddenly thought of transcripts just before I was due to post the introduction. A quick google didn't get anything I didn't already know about - Eva's site etc. - so sorry to be misleading and thanks Lizzie for the link :D

[Next time I lead a discussion I'll try and start in time to think about such things & research properly :roll: ]
Author:  cestina [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I too was pleased to see this thread today as last night I lay in bed thinking about posting something about the Springdale series which I have always liked much better than Dimsie. There is something a bit too twee about Dimsie for my taste - I wonder if anyone else finds that?

But Springdale is much more down to earth. (A senior moment in bed led to my wondering whether I had the name right or whether it was Springfield so I was much relieved this morning.) I particularly like the one where Diana Stewart and Peggy Willoughby are at odds because of a promotion (demotion?). It's a long time since I read it and the books are in England so I can't remember either the detail or the title (possibly The New House Captain) but the characters are well-drawn and it feels very realistic, having gone through something similar at school myself.

I think the focus on crushes/pashes/keen-ons etc is far more realistic in DFB even though she sets her face so firmly against them in Dimsie, than in EBD where it barely exists. When I think back to my own schooldays and how much time we spent tracking our loved ones (pashes in our case), sneaking photos (I still have some stuck in an album) writing poems to them, talking about them to our peer group etc, leaving out that huge chunk of boarding school life seems odd to me.

I am being urged to part with some of my large collection of school stories and children's books and it was actually musing about which ones I could allow to go that brought Springdale to mind last night. I look forward now to rereading it when I get back to my books in mid-November :) I think I could let the Dimsies go, but probably not Springdale. Which character, by the way, is dealt with in the last of the Colmskirk series and what is the book called please?
Author:  lavender [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I really enjoy DFB, and I have to admit at present I enjoy them more than I enjoy alot of EBD. I think alot of EBD's are a bit stale for me as I have read them so many times. Particularly the later episodic ones. Although the less episodic ones such as the Lorna books (I love Lorna) never get stale.

What I am currently enjoying about DFB is that she actually has a plot. I also think she is brilliant at writing dialogue and writing about animals.

The only thing about her books that annoys me slightly is that the plot of so many of them seems to turn on somebody knowing something vital about somebody else but not being able to tell because for spurious reasons they have given their word to somebody else that they won't. (If that makes sense).
Author:  Abi [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I like DFB and I always enjoy a re-read, but I think on the whole I prefer EBD. I'm not really sure why; perhaps I find EBD a little more down-to-earth. The Dimsies in particular tend to be very idealistic and a bit rose-tinted-spectaclesey. Also, I don't have them all, so re-reading is a bit frustrating in that way.

I think the first Dimsie, The Senior Prefect is the best. Although Daphne is a bit super-heroic, I think her ordeal is really convincingly told and although, again, the plot with Dimsie's mother is a bit far-fetched, parts of it are quite chilling - I'm thinking especially of the issues with mental health.
Author:  hac61 [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
Abi wrote:
I think the first Dimsie, The Senior Prefect is the best.


Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I always wondered where Daphne came into it and thought that maybe the book was never written that she stared in. I've never seen this title before. I shall hasten to add it to my wants list.


hac
Author:  abbeybufo [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
hac61 wrote:
Abi wrote:
I think the first Dimsie, The Senior Prefect is the best.


Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I always wondered where Daphne came into it and thought that maybe the book was never written that she stared in. I've never seen this title before. I shall hasten to add it to my wants list.


hac


Do be aware, everyone, that The Senior Prefect is the same book as Dimsie Goes to School :shock: :shock: - it was reissued after Dimsie Moves Up and re-named to tie the two books together in people's minds :roll:
Author:  Abi [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
Sorry - yes it is. My copy is Senior Prefect so I tend to think of it as that :oops: .
Author:  Matthew [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I'm more than a little late to this discussion but as I've just finished the three Dimsie transcripts I thought that I'd offer my opinion.

Firstly, thanks for starting these discussions about these other GO authors and EBD as they've led to me reading a whole stack of stories that otherwise I'd never have thought of looking at.

On to business. The first thing that strikes me about the books is whole childish they almost seem when compared to EBD and the others. Whilst that may seem a silly thing to say (after all these are children's books), there is a clear difference in the style of the writing, the depth of the characters and the actual storylines between DFB and the others. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy them but they seemed to lack a bit of the substance that the other authors offer. Secondly, what price Dimsie? She is truly the most annoyingly perfect person I have ever read about in GO. And to think that I thought I had it bad with Mary Lou and Joey! If you take the worst excesses of those two characters and multiplied them by about ten you'd still not come even close to how annoying Dimsie is. She knows everybody and everything and never makes a mistake about anything. Outside of the kind of impulsiveness that most younger characters in these sorts books have (and even then everything always works out for the best), she has no flaws at all. How this character could ever have become popular is beyond my comprehension.

They are escapist fun and a very easy read. I read the first two in one sitting. And I may try to pick up some of the none Dimsie books though I've no idea where to start. Does anyone here have any suggestions? Maybe without Dimsie being involved in everything I will enjoy the stories more.
Author:  JB [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
Matthew wrote:

Quote:
They are escapist fun and a very easy read. I read the first two in one sitting. And I may try to pick up some of the none Dimsie books though I've no idea where to start. Does anyone here have any suggestions? Maybe without Dimsie being involved in everything I will enjoy the stories more


I like the Nancy/St Brides books which GGB republished. Nancy certainly isn't tiresomely good. She doesn't feature in the first book of the series (The Girls of St Brides, so you could this one out) but the others cover her time at boarding school and day school, with the last story set in World War II when she's grown up.

Are you a member of Friends of the Chalet School? It's about £8 per year but you can then borrow books from their library for the cost of postage and, as well as all the EBDs, I think they have all the GGB titles.
Author:  abbeybufo [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
Now I get annoyed with Nancy, but I can take Dimsie, though I see where you're coming from, Matthew; it may depend on the age you first 'meet' these characters. I was under eleven when I first read Elsie Oxenham, some Tirol Chalets, and a couple of Dimsie and Springdale DFBs.

Consequently I find OOAO - whom I came to as an adult, and the adult Joey, somewhat trying, and I suspect that's why DFB's Nancy has never 'done it' for me either.

If you want to try other DFBs without Dimsie, the Springdale series - first title The New House Captain might be a good place to start if you want school stories - though be warned that the adult Dimsie has cameo guest appearances in the last two of the series :lol:

Or her more adult titles, the so-called Colmskirk sequence, probably not the historicals; I certainly wouldn't recommend Laverock Lilting or even Bees on Drumwhinnie to a non-devotee, and I haven't read Mistress Mariner to comment on that, except I'm told it is largely in dialect, But any of Serendipity Shop, Debatable Mound, Triffeny, Wild Goose Quest or Bartle Bequest will give you a different view of DFB's writing from that seen in the Dimsies.
Author:  LauraMcC [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I love Dimsie - I haven't read DFB's other works, so can't comment on them, but I find Dimsie the schoolgirl to be a wonderful character, although she becomes more annoying, IMO, when she grows up. I think that it is just because she is so fun - she seems to make things happen, just by being there, and yet the other members of her gang, especially Erica, can always contrive to keep her feet on the ground.

I also like the fact that she is not the leader of her group of friends, yet still ends up as HG, and is still someone who has obvious leadership qualities, unlike with OOAO's gang, for example, where they all follow her. and where most of them are pretty faceless after the firdt few books. She is probably one of the girls from GO fiction that I most want to be like, and there is some fairly stiff competition, there.
Author:  Loryat [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and DFB
I have read two Nancy books and most of Dimise, and I have to say I much prefer EBD to DFB.

EBD seems to have a lot more humour about her than DFB and, (and I know this is more realistic so therefore not necessarily a bad thing) I felt there was something very depressing about Jane's, though Nancy's schools don't seem to be too bad. So for me DFB books are less comforting and I'm less likely to reread them.

Though I think Dimsie in Goes to School is quite a nice and engaging character, by Moves Up she has become an absolutely nauseating girl, and she doesn't improve at all in the subsequent books, while I find her sudden decision to be a herbalist frankly weird and think that DFB was a bit irresponsible about that. For me the worst Dimsie moment is when she gets burned saving Jean's poems, though it's closely followed by the bit where she nearly dies (though it's not clear how or why) saving Hilary (coals of fire). I like Joey and can tolerate ML in small doses, but Dimise is too much IMO.

Nancy I quite like, though the whole bit in Nancy Returns to St Brides where she nearly gets expelled trying to save the reputation of the HG and the school is OTT.

Also, I find the way DFB's fictional schools are run a bit bizarre. At Jane's, the prefect appointment system and head girl appointments seem insane, as it appears to be based mostly on how old you are. Then, the second prefect automatically becomes HG even if she doesn't want to and the Headmistress doesn't really think she's the best person for the job. (Though she can interefere in an election and suggest to the most popular candidate that she stands down). Then the poor girl gets blamed when it all goes wrong! The idea that Dimsie wouldn't be a dead cert for both prefect and Head Girl doesn't make any sense at all, particularly when you consider that since she can manipulate an entire school election, the poor Head Girl would be completely undermined by her mere presence.

Meanwhile in Maudsley, when Nancy and her friends move up to the next form they leave half of their form-mates behind and encounter practically all of the previous year's Fifth (or whatever form it is). Which makes you wonder how the less intelligent girls ever get out of school.

I don't really feel that DFB is consistent with some of her characters either - for example Jean transforms from sensible cricket prodigy and future-captain-in-the-making to absent minded poetess with no interest in games; and Nancy's friend Desda who it seems at first is destined to be an actress suddenly starts taking a great interest in art. I know EBD is also very inconsistent, but DFB's series' are much shorter and she has much less characters, so you notice it more.

Lastly (sorry for essay) the way all the prefects treat Daphne when they think that it was her mother, not Dimsie's, who cheated, is shocking. What's more shocking is that it's pointed out very clearly that Dimisie's mother was actually innocent, as if had she been guilty she would have deserved this sort of treatment. And when it finally comes out that Dimsie, not Daphne, is the daughter of the alleged cheat, all the prefects think sentimentally about what a little love Dimsie is, and agree that they can't possibly blame her, which more of less implies that if Dimsie was a less lovable child, they'd have been prefectly happy to go on as before - and this isn't condemned. This gives the impression that DFB thinks that, had Dimsie's mother been guilty, it wouldn't have been right to send her to a 'decent' school, whcih seems a trifle harsh. :shock:
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