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Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6280
Author:  JB [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
This is the first in a series of discussions involving EBD and other popular authors.

Born in 1868, Angela Brazil wrote 46 full-length school stories. Her first book A Terrible Tomboy was published in 1904 (18 years before EBD’s Gerry Goes to School was published) and her last, The School on the Loch, in 1946, two years before her death. She wrote no series and only three pairs of books, preferring new characters and settings for each story. Her books remained in print until the early 1970s when Armada produced abridged paperback editions. One of the “big four” school story writers, her books are still collected but don’t fetch the same prices as Brent Dyer, Bruce or Oxenham

In Behind the Chalet School, Helen McClelland says of EBD:

Quote:
“It can be inferred from her writing that she did not care for Angela Brazil.”


Her reasoning for this is that when EBD characters talk of school stories, Brazil is never mentioned. She suggests that the “flowery prose” and “extravagantly sentimental utterances” of Brazil’s characters could be the reason behind this – it’s certainly something which would be disapproved of in the Chalet School.

Are you a fan of Angela Brazil?

Did you read her books as a child or did you find them as an adult? Is this different from your experience of reading the Chalet School?

How well do you feel the books have stood the test of time?

How does her work compare to that of EBD, in terms of schools, plot and characters?

Brazil is arguably less collectible than the other three of the “big four” writers. Why do you think this is?

The Encyclopaedia of Girls' School Stories asks what was the secret of her success and suggests the answer is because she retained the point of view of a schoolgirl. Do you agree with this viewpoint? If so, does this affect your enjoyment of her books as an adult?

Some of Angela Brazil's books are available through Project Gutenberg.
Author:  Mel [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
I didn't read Angela Brazil as a child, partly because they were out of print and I never saw the paperbacks. Later I was put off, thinking that they were all 'jolly hockeysticks.' However, when I did catch up with some of them, I was pleasantly surprised. Considering that many were written 1918(?) onwards they don't have too dated a feel, except that some of the schools don't have uniform etc. They do not hold my attention like EBD did - and does, but they are good reads, with the usual theme of schoolgirl friendships prevailing.However, the characterisation is a bit bland, compared to Joey, Dimsie etc. So many books, yet no series. Perhaps if she has written about one or two schools, she might still be collected as avidly as EBD, DFB and EJO.
Author:  LauraMcC [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
I've read a few (well, four) - one several years ago, when I was visiting an aunt and uncle and saw a copy of one of Brazil's books on their bookcase (I can't remember which one, which possibly shows how little it remained imprinted on my memory). I then bought a three-in-one omnibus from a local second hand book shop last January, as I very rarely seem to find any kind of school stories in book shops these days!

I did enjoy the stories, and I think that their slight datedness added to their charm, but for me the lack of any series and the fact that they cannot be found in libraries means that I am unlikely to be looking out for more of her work. I mean, if I am going to buy a book, I am more likely to be looking to complete a series that I am collecting. Most other books I get from a library, except for the ones that I am given.
Author:  Abi [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
I've read most of her books, but never as a child (and not for quite a while, so please excuse any memory lapses!). I think her books seem more dated than EBD, probably because they are from a slightly earlier era. They also seem a lot more enclosed - there's a lot less about the outside world than there is at least in the earlier EBD books and they do tend to be quite sentimental!

I do think the series factor has quite a bit to do with it - the other writers in the "big five" all wrote longish series and there is something appealing about reading more about characters you already know.
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
I always get the impression that Angela Brazil is the best known of "the big four" (maybe not to "kids today", but certainly to slightly older people) to people who aren't particularly into GO books themselves, even though her books aren't as "collectible". I'm not sure why that should be ... or maybe it's just my impression and is actually totally wrong!

Like Mel, I find that her books don't hold my attention the way that EBD's books do, and I think that the fact that she never wrote an ongoing series is a big part of that. They do seem quite dated, and I find the sentimentality a bit OTT. Also, some of the storylines just seem too stereotypical of what people imagine a school story to be, if you know what I mean - when Joey and some of the other girls mock the English school stories read by some of the Austrian girls, I get the feeling it was Angela Brazil type books which EBD was referring to! - but seeing as she was the first "major" author in the genre maybe that's inevitable.

According to legend - I've never been able to find out if it's true or not, as her biographies just make cryptic remarks about "a Manchester secondary school" - she went to my old school for about five minutes, before her parents decided that the said school was totally unsuitable and packed her off to a posh boarding school instead :lol: . I'm never sure whether I should feel obliged to like her or obliged to dislike her for that reason :lol: .
Author:  JB [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
Alison H wrote:

Quote:
According to legend - I've never been able to find out if it's true or not, as her biographies just make cryptic remarks about "a Manchester secondary school" - she went to my old school for about five minutes, before her parents decided that the said school was totally unsuitable and packed her off to a posh boarding school instead .


The Encyclopeadia says she attended a small private school called The Turrets on the Wirral, then the preparatory department of the High School in Manchester, before boarding at Ellerslie, "a more exclusive girls school near Victoria Park.

It also says that she was "served well" by her publishers who ended by claiming she originated the girls' school story. I think you're right, Alison, about hers being the name people think of when they think of school stories. There's a PD James novel where a minor character has all Brazil's first editions in dustwrwappers. It mentions it as though it were extremely valuable and special (and I know dw's would make it pretty special) but I couldn't help thinking how much more valuable a collectioon of EBD or EJO would have been. :)

Helen McClelland thinks that EBD may have had Brazil in mind when she mentions the book by Muriel Bernadine Brown that Gisela is reading in School At.
Author:  Loryat [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
I've read a couple of AB and found them variable. I really enjoyed The Youngest Girl in the Fifth, but Three Terms at Uplands and The School by the Loch and another one which I can't remember the name of, were less good.

One thing about her books is that they seem a bit random and episodic. For example in one book she has a whole chapter of essays written by various girls. :? In another one there is a bit where they go on a weekend trip away with a bunch of characters we never see again, and have an adventure on a mountain. There's also something funy about her dialogue, which reminds me of the sort of dialogue in Little Women though I don't know why.

A good point though is that unlike EBD she doesn't scruple to have unredeemable villains and even some of her heroines behave in a way that no CS heroine would (even the bad ones). The background characters generally behave more realistically too. It's less cosy than CS but more believable.

One thing I think is funny is that in the 70s paperbacks I have the characters are all wearing miniskirts and have very stylish hair on the covers. :)

Has anyone read the GGB A Fourth Form Friendship, and if so is it worth £12?
Author:  mohini [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
I never read Angela Brazil as a child though I must have read EDB because I remember somethings after I read them (EDB) later. I must have read Abbey girls because I seem to remember the names after I read them again
I read Angela Brazil later but I liked them at least some of them.
I did not think of when they were printed or how they were comparable to EDB.
To me the stories represented an era before the one mentioned by EDB or Enid Blyton. They seem old fashioned with old fashioned values and descriptions or relations.
The girls are more demonstrative and mushy.
Her plots are interesting and seem apt for that time period with wars and old houses and secret passages.
There is also some male character who usually plays a bit important role. And I always feel that the friendship will blossom in love later.
So I do not feel that School and the girls of EDB can be compared with those of Angela Brazil because I feel that they represent different times and hence different values.
Author:  Katherine [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
Loryat wrote:
One thing I think is funny is that in the 70s paperbacks I have the characters are all wearing miniskirts and have very stylish hair on the covers. :)

I love those covers for comedy value. They've clearly been using a hairdryer for some of those styles!

The first one I read was Head Girl at the Gables which had a lovely feel and quite a lot to it. Later ones have been more of a disappointment. I can't help but wish she had written a proper series. The books are so thin there's not enough time to develop stuff.
Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
Coming very late to this discussion, just to say that many of Angela Brazil's books are available to download free of charge from Many Books. A variety of formats are available, so if you have an e-book reader of some kind, you can download on to that (I have one, and my goodness, it's paid for itself over and over again in the free books I've downloaded for it!), or you can read on-line or download a PDF or similar (although in that case I'd recommend downloading the free Mobipocket software and using the .mobi format, as it's massively easier to read than a PDF or a word document, even on your computer.
Author:  Nightwing [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
Mrs Redboots wrote:
...many of Angela Brazil's books are available to download free of charge from Many Books.


Thanks heaps for the link - I've been wanting to read some of her books for a while but haven't got around to it. Now I've got no excuse :)
Author:  janetbrown23 [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
That is a wonderful link. Thank you so much.
Author:  Bethannie [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
Oh I am going to have to follow up on that link! I am currently in the process of claiming Disability Allowance, and have days (weeks?!) when I am practically housebound....re-reading some Brazil will be a nice treat!

I have read quite a few Brazil school stories, and enjoyed them - mostly. Of course they are dated, you expect that.

The main drawback to Brazil, or perhaps the main advantage to EBD, Bruce and EJO is the series factor. Occassionally, Brazil wrote 2 books with the same characters (Monitress Merle for example) but on the whole, her books are stand-alones. I love the series element. I was so upset when I realised I'd read the whole Chalet Series! And am so glad that the series is being filled-in/continued!

The other problem is the dreaded 'abridgement'. It is harder to get hold of early Brazil, and much of what I read was paperbacks, where the story has been cut (sometimes beyond recognition). I have the same problem with EBD paperbacks - some of the Armada abridgements make you think it's a different story to the original.
Author:  JayB [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
I don't think AB founded the genre - people were writing school stories before she came along.

But she began before EBD, was more prolific than DFB, and more specifically a school story writer than EJO (I don't htink AB wrote anything else, did she, albeit some with a strong family or holiday element). So I can see why she would be the name best known to people who don't know much about the genre.

I read some AB as a child, but most of what I've read has been as an adult. I think she does come across as more dated than EBD. Possibly because she was a generation older than EBD, she was in the 1930s in the position that EBD was in in the 1950s/60s, trying to keep up with modern culture and schoolgirl outlook. I think she was at her best in the books written before, during and just after the First World War, so perhaps already past her peak when EBD hit her stride. I'd pick out The Youngest Girl in the Fifth (1913), The Luckiest Girl in the School (1916) and A Patriotic Schoolgirl (1918) as examples of AB at her peak.

I think also EBD's stance on slang is a big help in preventing her books looking too dated! Some of AB's characters are very slangy, and it can be annoying at times.

Overall I think EBD is the better writer. She goes into things more deeply and shows differing points of view. She's better at 'world building' and creating a sense of place. She shows the life of the whole school, while AB tends to focus on one girl or group of girls. Her use of English overall I think is better. And AB's use of coincidence, long lost relatives, secret passages etc. makes EBD look moderate in comparison. The difference I think is that when AB used those plots in the 1920s they were a common part of the genre. All authors were doing it. By the time EBD did it in the 1950/60s it was definitely outdated.

But AB is I think perhaps better at showing the intricacies of schoolgirl friendships - for example when girls find themselves 'friends' with someone they don't even necessarily like very much. And I think she's very good at family relationships and boy/girl friendships.
Author:  Matthew [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
Having downloaded and read a few of her books from manybooks, I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised. I had thought that the stories would be hopelessly dated with a collection of prim and proper girls that I would struggle to like. Instead I found the stories to be very enjoyable and the characters a lot more likeable than I could have imagined. Indeed, I would have to say that I found 'the cuckoo' Rhona Mitchell in 'For the Sake of the School', Gypsy in 'The Leader of the Lower School' and Patty in 'The Nicest Girl in the School' to especially likeable and enjoyable to read characters.

There were parts that did clunk. She had a bad habbit of going into far too much details during various trips that could have been a lot shorter, some of her religious moralising was far too heavy handed and often felt out of place, and she did seem to be a little too fond of the idea that girls had to change their behaviour to fit into the school often at the cost of what made the character interesting to read about in the first place. Though I will admit that the second and third points were a sign of the times that she was writing in. And it's not as if EBD managed to avoid any of the three problems in her writing and that was despite the fact that she started to write her stories a good twenty or so years later.

When it comes to the lack of a series, in some ways it's a shame as I definitely would have been interested in reading more about some of my favourite characters but in others it's a good thing as the varying schools wth their different teachers, pupils and ways of doing things help to keep things fresh especially during an intensive read like I'm on at the moment.

I have to say that the slang doesn't bother me at all but considering the fact that I grew up reading a huge amount of Blyton that's not too surprising as those books were loaded with very similar slang. And when you couple that with the fact that I enjoy reading a lot of 19th and early 20th century literature, it's hardly surprising that the slang isn't a problem. I've read and enjoyed far more dated books than anything that AB wrote.
Author:  ClaireK [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Girls Own: EBD and Angela Brazil
Mrs Redboots wrote:
Coming very late to this discussion, just to say that many of Angela Brazil's books are available to download free of charge from Many Books. A variety of formats are available, so if you have an e-book reader of some kind, you can download on to that (I have one, and my goodness, it's paid for itself over and over again in the free books I've downloaded for it!), or you can read on-line or download a PDF or similar (although in that case I'd recommend downloading the free Mobipocket software and using the .mobi format, as it's massively easier to read than a PDF or a word document, even on your computer.


Brilliant link! Thaks you SOOOOO much.
I've saved it and plan to download lots of books from this. It's just what I've been looking for.

ClaireK
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