The CBB :: View topic - Girls: Guides of the Chalet School

Also, why might Miss Browne have disapproved of the movement?

Sunglass wrote:

Also, why might Miss Browne have disapproved of the movement?

Some people felt that it was too militaristic and imperialistic...

In general, the "imperialistic" argument seems more recent, though I have read at least one rather strident academic-style tome with the thesis that Baden-Powell's whole objective was to improve the fitness of recruits to the army.

So, when EBD tells us that Guides is what a girl like Elaine Gilling or Audrey Everett needs, what exactly is it that she's expecting us to understand?

Some people felt that it was too militaristic and imperialistic.

So, when EBD tells us that Guides is what a girl like Elaine Gilling or Audrey Everett needs, what exactly is it that she's expecting us to understand?

Guiding has changed and adapted over the years - it will be 100 years in September since girls appeared at the Scout Rally and persuaded BP to do something for girls.

Always seemed very strange when Scouts (or maybe it was just Cubs?) had Jungle Book names for their leaders.

Guiding has changed and adapted over the years - it will be 100 years in September since girls appeared at the Scout Rally and persuaded BP to do something for girls.

Calling the Guide leader 'Captain' or 'Madam' seemed very odd to me. We just called our leader Mrs <Surname> and the Lieutenants by their Christian names.

When I was a Lieutenant in the late 60s, even my younger sister, who was one of the Guides, was expected to call me 'Lieutenant' or 'Leffy'. After I married and became a Lieutenant in another Company, our Captain's daughter called her mum 'Captain' whilst at Guide meetings.

linda wrote:

I am currently an assistant Guide Leader and my mother is Guider in charge. All the Guides still call her Captain. I suppose I should be called Leffy but the Guides tend just use my first name.

Author:	Lottie [ Wed May 13, 2009 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
It was decided to start a Guide Company in the first year of the Chalet School’s existence. The Guides were an important part of the storyline during the Tyrol era, including being the source of some of the problems in Rivals. The company obviously continues when the School moves to Guernsey, since there is a comment in Exile about learning First Aid in the Guides. We see the Guides in action both at Plas Howell and on St. Briavel’s. There are Guide camps in both the Tyrol and on the island, too. When the School moves to Switzerland, there is a comment in Barbara to the effect that re-establishing the Guide company will have to wait until they have settled in. As far as I can remember, the suggestion that they should be re-started is never mentioned again. What do you think about EBD’s introduction and portrayal of the Girl Guide movement? Did the Guiding storylines detract from what was essentially a school story? Or would you like to have seen more of them? Is it apparent that EBD was familiar with the Girl Guide movement? Did she depict the Guides’ activities accurately? Do you think there would have been problems, particularly in the Tyrolean days, when there were more non-British pupils, with the girls taking the promise of loyalty to the British King? Why is there never any mention of Thinking Day? Do you think it feasible for a Guide company to adopt a run-away orphan? What about the girls who weren’t Guides for whatever reason? Was it fair that they were subjected to a session sewing with Matey? Was it fair on Matey? Perhaps she wanted to be a Guider – with her nursing knowledge she would presumably have been able to teach for the First Aid and Home Nursing badges. What about the staff who did act as Guiders? Were they volunteers? Or was it tacitly assumed that they would be happy to give up their free time to run a Guide Company? Assuming that the Chalet School is till flourishing today, do you think there is a Guide Company at either Glendower House or on the Gornetz Platz? Lottie is still wearing an FD mod hat!

Author:	Alison H [ Wed May 13, 2009 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
In Princess, I think the Guiding stuff goes too far and detracts from the fact that the book's meant to be a school story. Also, the idea of the Guides adopting Biddy was totally impractical. Other than that, I enjoy the Guiding references: the Guiding ethos ties in well with the general ethos of the school, it's realistic that the girls would do some sort of extra-curricular activities and a school Guiding company fits in with that, and I like Camp. Realistically, there might have been issues over girls from outside the Commonwealth taking the promise of loyalty to the British King, but presumably there were ways round that? I feel very sorry for girls who weren't Guides and had to go off and darn sheets with Matey, which was usually something used as a punishment! Some people at the time did object to the Guiding movement because of its associations with imperialism, and there may have been various other reasons why people didn't want to join too: surely they should have been allowed to go off and read or draw or something instead! It's strange that the whole thing was just dropped when they moved to Switzerland. EBD seems to have been keen to make wholesale changes at that time - Madge and Jem being left behind being the main one - but it's odd that the subject's never even mentioned again when Guiding was such a big thing in the earlier books.

Author:	Jenefer [ Wed May 13, 2009 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
I think there is some mention of EDB's involvement in Guiding in Behind the CS but it is years since I read the book. In the early CS books, she is very enthusiastic about Guiding. Around the same time, she wrote Judy the Guide which is set in a school with a Guide company. The descriptions of the meetings sound authentic. She appears to know a lot about Guiding and I assume she was a leader for a while. Regarding the Promise, non British Guides could substitute country for King. As an Irish Guide, I promised to serve my country. I like the Guiding bits but then I am biased...

Author:	Loryat [ Wed May 13, 2009 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
I can't remember this book very well now, but is there not something about Guides in Wins the Trick? It does seem very unfair on the non-Guides in that being a non-Guide appears to be a punishable offense, more or less. But I don't think any of the Guiders were forced into it, after all not all of the mistresses are Guiders and as half of them are ex-Chaletians (insofar as there is such a thing as an ex-Chaletian lol) they are probably totally dedicated to the movement. Likewise I expect if Matey wanted to be a Guider she'd have made her feelings known. I think EBD goes a bit over the top with how everyone does Guiding. She does the same thing in a non-CS book called Judy the Guide or something like that. Probably the depictions of Guiding you get with authors like Antonia Forest and Christine Chaundler, where Guiding is a lesser activity (certainly lesser than games) and almost frowned upon is more realistic. On the other hand, if practically everyone is a Guide then you can see how new girls, even if they weren't interested, would feel pressured into joining, esepcially if they had to darn sheets instead . I suppose EBD stopped writing about Guides because Guiding stories had become less popular. It's a shame in a way. I love Camp, and I like all the little mentions of Guides that you get in the war books, but in some of the later books when there's just a random chunk about a camp in the middle of the book (I'm thinking of Carola or Wrong here, I think) it can be a bit tedious, with the most amusing bits being the EBDisms where girls belong to about ten different patrols. I think there'd still be a Guide pack going nowadays. I recently started helping out at a Rainbow unit and the main problem is getting adult helpers and leaders, not interested girls. Though the changes to the uniform and badges would probably have EBD spinning in her grave.

Author:	Cat C [ Wed May 13, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
As someone who did Brownies (Rainbows hadn't been invented when I was small!) and Guides, and Rangers, and was a Pack Leader, and then a Guider at age 18, I was fascinated by all the Guiding things in the CS - especially all the things that had changed. All the things about tenderfoot badges and learning morse... There's certainly something about them in Wins the Trick, Audrey not being able to join at home for a start, but I can't remember what is said about Guides at the CS. I am also embarrassed to admit I hadn't clocked their absence from the Swiss books.

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Author:	Mel [ Wed May 13, 2009 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
I think Audrey is interested in the 'Camp fire' movement in Wins the Trick.

Author:	Sunglass [ Thu May 14, 2009 10:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
I've never been a Guide, or had much contact with them, and always found the Guides bits of school stories in general interesting because the territory was so unfamiliar. One has the impression in the early Tyrol days that guiding for girls is still quite radical as a way of reacting against Victorian notions of girls being physically-inactive 'young ladies', and giving them freedoms and skills traditionally associated with boys...? Mind you, apart from the camps, the display when Elisaveta's father comes, and the odd discussion of which badges to work for in Tyrol (why does EBD never show people training for badges, or taking the tests - that would have been lovely! And if she's written an entire book about a Guide, then presumably she knew that kind of thing...?), what goes on at a Guide meeting is a bit of a blank, and what we do hear doesn't sound that compelling. We see the Guides going for a 'march' in Rivals as part of their Saturday morning activities, but how would that be different from a normal school walk? I suppose for me (without any knowledge of my own about Guiding) what we see Guides doing in the books - marching, signalling and bandaging, camping, tracking skills - doesn't line up with the fact that she more than once shows us that Guides is what a problem girl 'really needs' - it's suggested that the absence of Guides is the main reason for Elaine Gilling's bad behaviour, and for Audrey Everett's. There's clearly a whole Guiding philosophy EBD suggests is important, which would apparently have transformed these two, but she doesn't really explain it...? Also, why might Miss Brown have disapproved of the movement?

Author:	Alison H [ Thu May 14, 2009 11:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Sunglass wrote: Also, why might Miss Browne have disapproved of the movement? Some people felt that it was too militaristic and imperialistic. In Miss Browne's case, though, I'd think that she probably thought that camping and learning to tie knots and marching and so on was more something for boys than for girls.

Author:	Cat C [ Thu May 14, 2009 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Alison H wrote: Sunglass wrote: Also, why might Miss Browne have disapproved of the movement? Some people felt that it was too militaristic and imperialistic... Some people still do! I remember a class where we were discussing some data from Guiders meetings (what they said and how), and a girl from Poland asked what Brownies were and the lecturer explained they were a militaristic organisation where they where uniform and march about (or words to that effect - this was about five years ago).

Author:	Kathy_S [ Thu May 14, 2009 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Well, since my collecting of books with Girl Scout themes is what originally landed me in the CS, it's probably fairly obvious that I enjoy their Guiding parts. Their absence clearly explains the relative weakness of the Swiss books..... The one thing I really wish EBD had done is to have played up the international aspect of guiding/scouting. I don't quite understand why she didn't, given her general attitude to international friendship, promotion of "pen friends," etc. All those years in Switzerland and not even an excursion to Our Chalet! It's been around since 1932, so she might even have managed it from Austria. Likewise I'd have loved to see some interaction with Guides in the host country, or some of the girls involved in an international camp. I agree that there have been two main strains of formal anti-Guiding feeling: the "too unladylike" and the "too militaristic." What I'm not entirely clear about is their timing. In general, the "imperialistic" argument seems more recent, though I have read at least one rather strident academic-style tome with the thesis that Baden-Powell's whole objective was to improve the fitness of recruits to the army. Also I think the proportion of "drill" and saluting early on did lead some to describe the members as "girl soldiers," as opposed to Campfire and Woodcraft, and, to be honest, EBD's Judy the Guide may be the most imperialistic Guiding novel I've ever read. However, I doubt that people within the movement would consider either of these negative viewpoints valid....

Author:	Alison H [ Thu May 14, 2009 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
After the Boer War - in which Baden-Powell fought, IIRC - there was a lot of concern about the fitness of recruits, which had a knock-on effect and led to an increase in concern about health and fitness in the UK generally. Old age pensions and national insurance were brought in a few years later, and the Scouts and Guides were founded at around the same time, so I can understand how the two things got linked in people's minds, especially with the Scouting/Guiding emphasis on marching and drill and other things associated with armies. I wish we'd got to see some camping in the Swiss books ... all the visits to Berne, Interlaken, Zermatt etc are very interesting, but they do start to get a bit repetitive. A Guide camp, or even just a school camp, would have made a nice change .

Author:	Tor [ Fri May 15, 2009 9:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Quote: In general, the "imperialistic" argument seems more recent, though I have read at least one rather strident academic-style tome with the thesis that Baden-Powell's whole objective was to improve the fitness of recruits to the army. I think this is generally held to be the case, and that Baden-Powell himself said such things directly (no source to hand, I am just remembering an excellent documentary about it). But of course, that doesn't mean the movement has moved on and changed its face over the years. Although saying that, my Guide troop was massively militaristic. I hated it (loved Brownies, though). I stuck with it out of loyalty to EBD , but resisted going on to either Rangers or Venture Scouts. If I'd wanted drill (and this was in the 90s), joyless camping regimes, and all that stuff about rolling and carrying the union jack properly, I'd have joined the cadets, and got to do it properly! Our Captain was a tad insane - no wonder the troop folded soon after I left.

Author:	Sunglass [ Fri May 15, 2009 10:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
So, when EBD tells us that Guides is what a girl like Elaine Gilling or Audrey Everett needs, what exactly is it that she's expecting us to understand? That Guides will supply them with muscular Christianity/ patriotism/purpose/social-service ethos/military-style discipline/a physical outlet...? Most of which I would have thought was amply supplied by the CS in any case, as it is so Christian, requires a lot of girls living up to the 'spirit of the CS', is attuned to social justice and encouraging of physical activity etc etc. What 'extra' does Guides supply in terms of meeting someone's needs? I assume EBD doesn't just mean fun or camping here. And I know that when Audrey and Elaine are characterised as needing Guides, neither is actually a CS pupil, but still, if Guides so so NB at the CS, it clearly serves a purpose there, apart from filling Saturday morning and adopting runaway Irish orphans...?

Author:	Mel [ Fri May 15, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
And, anyone who isn't a Guide is unlikely to be able to do anything, for example when Rosalie (Way/Day) squashes a blouse, Matey wants to know if she is a Guide, so that she might iron it herself. Apparently no one without Laundress Badge can do anything. Also Elisaveta works when escaping Europe during the war, by doing washing, thanks to her Laundress Badge. So what was Frau Mieders doing?

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Author:	Cat C [ Fri May 15, 2009 10:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
I suspect EBD thought that being a Guide had the same healing/improving effect on someone's character that mountain air (or bracing cold) had on their health. If I was going to unwrap it more than that, I'd go for the whole 'team-work in a non-school environment' and 'character-building extra-curricula activities' thing - encouraging girls to think about more than just their marks in class etc. Oh, and possibly being part of a world-wide organisation that Does Good - although she never does seem to take any interest in the international guide movement really.

Author:	ChubbyMonkey [ Fri May 15, 2009 11:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
I remember when I first moved primary schools in year three, and I was the only girl in my class who wasn't a Brownie. I did try joining a few years later, but I gave up fairly quickly - it was time which otherwise would have been spent at home with a book, a far better occupation! I fear I wouldn't have been much liked at the CS. I can see all of the good that Guides could do, particularly for children with difficult backgrounds, but the CS attitude of almost compulsory attendance isn't right, I don't think. Aside from anything else, a lot of the poorer families - such as Jacynth Hardy - would probably see it as an unaffordable extra - uniform, trips etc.

Author:	hac61 [ Fri May 15, 2009 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
When they are discussing the Coming of Age activities, doesn't Miss Wilson make a statement that if they run out of room in the school buildings they could always put the pupils in tents in the grounds? This has always suggested to me that the Guiding stuff is still around, just not used. Guiding is always only as good as the Leaders providing it. I had a good Brown Owl; a useless Guide Captain and a wonderful Sea Ranger Skipper. I make no comment as to what I was like as an Officer! hac

Author:	JayB [ Fri May 15, 2009 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Quote: So, when EBD tells us that Guides is what a girl like Elaine Gilling or Audrey Everett needs, what exactly is it that she's expecting us to understand? I believe Guiding was supposed to be very egalitarian, with girls from all backgrounds mixing together on equal terms. Possibly that's what EBD thought would be good for Elaine. Although in a company attached to a school, the girls wouldn't actually meet anyone they didn't already know.

Author:	trig [ Fri May 15, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Alison H wrote Quote: Some people felt that it was too militaristic and imperialistic. I have to admit to liking that bit about guides a lot (but not as much as camping). One of the best moments of my 12-year-old life was being asked to carry the flag on the remembrance day parade. I still get annoyed by the fact that the guides had to come behind the Scouts and the cubs. And I still get moved by the similar thing done at our school . Quote: So, when EBD tells us that Guides is what a girl like Elaine Gilling or Audrey Everett needs, what exactly is it that she's expecting us to understand? I expect I'm wrong, but I always thought that it was the discipline/reward side of the movement that would affect such girls. Often children who have no discipline in their lives, or the wrong kind of discipline (Grizel), respond well to army-style discipline. The tasks to be done are ones that everyone can do (make your bed neatly - see Forest Gump) and there's times for everything. I suppose that Guides went with CS so well because CS was like this anyway... I think that Guide Badges used to be rather more formal things than what they are now. Even when I was a guide the first aid badge was equivalent to a basic St John's Ambulance course, and you had to renew it every 2 years. And I still make my family construct "gadgets" when we go camping for storing wellies and cooking things (backwoodsman badge)

Author:	Loryat [ Fri May 15, 2009 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
The most militaristic thing about my Guides was Taps, and that is not really militaristic at all. I can't really be bothered with people who complain about stuff like that. I don't see anyone else starting up a girl only movement that gives kids new interests and interesting activities. I am not a monarchist at all but as far as I'm concerned, that aspect of the promise can just be ignored. I don't suppose I would have enjoyed militaristic Guiding (though I did like going to the Remembrance Day ceremony) but as someone has already said, the Guide/Brownie/Rainbow unit is only as good as the leaders. There is a book by Nancy Breary called It Was Fun in the Fourth where a girl is really lonely at school but finds friends after she is encouraged to join Guides, also the Guides do a lot of charity work and there is stuff about Guide laws such as 'A Guide laughs and smiles at all times'. I suppose that sort of thing is the stuff that EBD is talking about.

Author:	hac61 [ Sat May 16, 2009 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
[quote="trig"] I still get annoyed by the fact that the guides had to come behind the Scouts and the cubs. I used to get annoyed by the same thing, but technically Scouting is the "Senior Service" and that's what gives them the right to go first. (So I was told.) As Sea Rangers in a Sea Scout/Sea Ranger Group I always insisted that the Sea Rangers went last because, on average, the girls were older than the Scouts! hac

Author:	Cat C [ Sun May 17, 2009 10:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
When I carried the flag at Rememberance Day, it was the Union Flag (I forget the whys and wherefors of that), and the British Legion members were obviously somewhat annoyed it meant that I went at the front... which was understandable, although there wasn't much I could do about it. Have been reading Carnation, and it's interesting that even though Guides is featured more centrally than in any CS book apart from Camp(!) there's still an awful lot of detail that isn't in there - I'd be interested to have a description of the uniform, or to know a bit more about which badges they had, and what they had to do for them. Not sure whether that sort of thing comes under the heading of unecessary (the uniform) or just being de trop (the badge stuff). The trouble is it does give the impression EBD didn't really know a lot about Guides, just that they existed and vaguely what the ethos was, plus a few snippets of information. Is there more detail in Judy the Guide?

Author:	Jenefer [ Sun May 17, 2009 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Judy the Guide is about a school with a Guide Company. Judy is sent from Canada by her Godfather to St Ronans where she is a member of the Fourth. The book covers her first term including adjusting to boarding school, difficulties with another girl and of course Guides. There is also a lot of country dancing and Morris. The majority of the school are Guides or Brownies and Judy is encouraged to join by her friends who explain the Promise and Law. Her first meeting and her enrollment are described and the book finishes with the last meeting of term. There is brief mention of badge testing where they appear to do written tests. My copy is illustrated - they wear 1920s Guide uniform. The meetings seemed similar to ours apart from all the marching and drill which we did not do. Guiding has changed and adapted over the years - it will be 100 years in September since girls appeared at the Scout Rally and persuaded BP to do something for girls.

Author:	Cat C [ Sun May 17, 2009 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Jenefer wrote: Guiding has changed and adapted over the years - it will be 100 years in September since girls appeared at the Scout Rally and persuaded BP to do something for girls. Gosh, and I remember the 75th Anniversary celebrations, when I was a Brownie! Thanks for the synopsis. It does sound rather Carnation-like, except being a boarding school, rather than a day-school. One thing I wondered about: we always called our Guide Captain 'Captain', but in Carnation they call her 'Madam' - does anyone know why that was, and when it changed? Always seemed very strange when Scouts (or maybe it was just Cubs?) had Jungle Book names for their leaders.

Author:	Thursday Next [ Sun May 17, 2009 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Quote: Always seemed very strange when Scouts (or maybe it was just Cubs?) had Jungle Book names for their leaders. I think it was just Cubs and not the Scouts. No different really from Brownie leaders being known as Brown Owl.

Author:	JackieP [ Mon May 18, 2009 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Jenefer wrote: Guiding has changed and adapted over the years - it will be 100 years in September since girls appeared at the Scout Rally and persuaded BP to do something for girls. And hopefully everyone in the movement will be able to join in with the launch parties on the weekend of 5/6 September this year. JackieP (frantically trying to get the District Party planned...)

Author:	Jenefer [ Mon May 18, 2009 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Cubs were originally called Wolf Cubs and based on the Jungle Books. The name was changed in the late 60s when they updated the organisation and did away with the Jungle Book conection apart from the Leader names. Brown Owl is from the owl in The Brownie Story who tells Betty how to find the Brownie

Author:	AngelaG [ Mon May 18, 2009 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Both my parents benefitted hugely from the Scout/Guide movement in that they grew up in the East End of London and to them it offered such opportunities for camping that they could never have managed otherwise. My father used to remember with great fondness a camp in the 1920s on the Isle of Wight where all the scouts made their own way there and they pitched their tents of the cliffs above Shanklin. Similarly, my mother and her close friends enjoyed camping so much that they would volunteer for all District and Division camps, if any experienced campers were needed. They used to hitchhike to most of the sites, with their rucksacks (this was in the 1950s). I don't remember any militaristic aspects of the Guides when I was a member in the 1980s, apart from the yearly Parades. It was mostly activities that I saw as fun at the time, but were really hugely educational, particularly First Aid and safety, and a lot of our time was looking towards the next camp. It's almost impossible to underestimate the fun of communal singing round a campfire, with hot chocolate to look forward to before bed.

Author:	Lulie [ Mon May 18, 2009 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Calling the Guide leader 'Captain' or 'Madam' seemed very odd to me. We just called our leader Mrs <Surname> and the Lieutenants by their Christian names. My mum and her friend were keen Guides in the 50s/60s, making it to Queen's Guide and the friend's mum was also a Guide in the 1920s. We have a fantastic photo of her in her 1920s uniform. So different to the one I wore in the 1980s.

Author:	linda [ Mon May 18, 2009 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
Lulie wrote: Calling the Guide leader 'Captain' or 'Madam' seemed very odd to me. We just called our leader Mrs <Surname> and the Lieutenants by their Christian names. When I was a Lieutenant in the late 60s, even my younger sister, who was one of the Guides, was expected to call me 'Lieutenant' or 'Leffy'. After I married and became a Lieutenant in another Company, our Captain's daughter called her mum 'Captain' whilst at Guide meetings.

Author:	Chris S [ Sun May 24, 2009 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
My daughter, a guide leader of 24, is called Kirstie by her guides. The older leader in her 50s is also addressed by her first name. However, whenever Kirstie meets the lady who was her guide leader 10 years ago she calls her Mrs ...... Those leaders had Winnie the Pooh names like Tigger and Kanga.

Author:	abbeybufo [ Sun May 24, 2009 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
In EJO, roughly contemporary with EBD, the Guides in the books published in the 20s an early 30s call their Captain 'Madam' [guess it's the equivalent to the 'Sir' that the Scouts used, and analogous to Ma'am for [female] officers in the forces]. In later books, published post-war [though technically - i.e. on internal chronology - still set in the 30s] the Abbey twins call their mother 'Captain' while at guides.

Author:	Kathy_S [ Sun May 24, 2009 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
In the Girl Scout fiction I own, leaders seem to have been called "Captain" up through the twenties, and one (fictional) Depression era troop was led by Captain Mac (The Mac is short for her surname.) In later books -- and in my own 1960s-1970s experience -- leaders were Mrs. (surname) in the troops but had nicknames at camp. In the 1920 handbook, leaders were called Captains. By 1947, it was just "troop leaders." I don't seem to have anything in between! (at least on a shelf -- could be in a box somewhere.)

Author:	Fi [ Mon May 25, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Girls: Guides of the Chalet School
linda wrote: When I was a Lieutenant in the late 60s, even my younger sister, who was one of the Guides, was expected to call me 'Lieutenant' or 'Leffy'. After I married and became a Lieutenant in another Company, our Captain's daughter called her mum 'Captain' whilst at Guide meetings. I am currently an assistant Guide Leader and my mother is Guider in charge. All the Guides still call her Captain. I suppose I should be called Leffy but the Guides tend just use my first name. When I was a Guide in my mum's unit I always used to call her Captain the same as everyone else. I found that it could sometimes be difficult being "Captain's daughter" and it helped if I didn't draw too much attention to the fact. The leaders' names stick through time too. I still call my old Brown Owl by this when I meet her and a good family friend still calls my Gran "Captain".