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Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
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Author:  Lottie [ Wed May 20, 2009 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
We first meet Clem and Mary-Lou before either of them go to the CS in Three Go to the Chalet School. There aren’t many other suitable children in Polquenel, so it seems quite natural that they are friends there. But what about when they arrive at the Chalet School? It was necessary (for the plot) to create a new small dormitory for the two of them, but do you think that was really likely, given that they are in different divisions of the school? If they hadn’t been sharing a dormitory, would they have carried on being such close friends? How realistic is it that Clem and Tony are invited to make their home with the Trelawneys in the holidays? Do you think Clem was good at keeping a check on Mary-Lou’s bumptiousness? Do you think they remained friends after they had both left the Chalet School? What do you think about the friendship between Mary-Lou and Clem?

Lottie is still wearing an FD mod hat.
Author:  Caroline [ Wed May 20, 2009 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
I really like the friendship between these two - it's one of the more natural affinities amongst the girls. Clem's mothering tendencies, Mary-Lou's older-than-her-age outlook, they are both outdoors-y types with slightly unconventional upbringings, and they seem a good fit. Clem is the older sister ML never had and helps develop ML-the-home-body into ML-the-model-schoolgirl.

The dormitory thing does seem a plot device too far, though, and highly unlikely when you consider neither girl has boarded before, and although Clem is a responsible type she is still only 13 to ML's 10.

I'd accept them being in the same dormy, with the normal 15-year-old dormy prefect in charge, but in a room for two on their own? We only really see this set up in the very earliest Tyrol years, and often it's then two sisters together, for instance (Wanda and Marie) or two older girls. And besides, all the rooms were smaller then.

The Clem-and-Tony staying with the Trelawneys in the hols thing I can buy, as the Barrasses seem remarkably lacking in family and friends, thanks to their peripatetic (sp?) lifestyle.

Of course, I never quite understood how Mr Barrass came to send Clem to the CS in the first place - Mary-Lou didn't even know where she was going to school until she reached Howells, by which time Clem and family were in the Hebrides somewhere. Are we supposed to think that ML wrote to Clem, the letter had time to get there, Clem waxed lyrical about ML's new school (which ML hadn't even seen at this point) and Mr B just thought (when Tony was so naughty that last time) - "Oh yes, I'll send Clem to a school I've never heard of that a girl we knew for a few weeks when in Cornwall (who's parent and grandparent don't like me and my wife at all, so we are unlikely to have similar taste in schools) is going to but hasn't started at yet. In Armishire."

Or are we supposed to think the CS is so famous that it's the first school he would think of in the circs. Which makes the whole thing a great big slightly unbelievable coincidence.

Of course, I know that EBD needs a reason for ML and C and VA to end up at the same school - hence the plot - but Clem's reason seems to be much the weakest of the three.
Author:  MJKB [ Wed May 20, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
It was, without doubt, one of the most successful friendships throughout the series. I loved Three Go, and even if there are few coincidences such as ML discovering that the pupil she was dreading having to share a bedroom with is none other than Clem, by and large the plot works marvellously.
I always enjoy the glimpses into domestic life at the time, and there are plenty in Three GoIt is great that ML, as an only child, gets to share her mother and grandmother with the Barras'. Both Clem and Tony are lovely, natural kids with no 'notions' about themselves. Mrs. B sounds completely undomesticated and abit 'racey', but EBD treats her with a degree of indulgence rather than disapproval.
It's been pointed out before, I think, that as soon as Clem leaves the school, ML's character deteriorates. Clem was the only one who could check ML's inate bossiness and general officiousness. No one ever seems to think that she needs taken down several pegs after that.
Author:  trig [ Wed May 20, 2009 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
Three Go has to be one of my favourites, for many of the reasons outlined by others. I've always had a fondness for Clem (much more than Mary-Lou) and find it disappointing Clem does not get much time on air so to speak (similarly VA but that's OT...)

I've always assumed that Mr B chanced upon the CS for Clem, and might have heard the Trelawneys speaking of it. Didn't they go to Armishire because the school was there, in addition to the climate? (Although how anywhere on the border of Wales isn't damp is beyond my comprehension) I felt sure Gran spoke about it to Mary-Lou.
Author:  hac61 [ Wed May 20, 2009 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
Caroline wrote:
Of course, I never quite understood how Mr Barrass came to send Clem to the CS in the first place - Mary-Lou didn't even know where she was going to school until she reached Howells, by which time Clem and family were in the Hebrides somewhere. Are we supposed to think that ML wrote to Clem, the letter had time to get there, Clem waxed lyrical about ML's new school (which ML hadn't even seen at this point) and Mr B just thought (when Tony was so naughty that last time) - "Oh yes, I'll send Clem to a school I've never heard of that a girl we knew for a few weeks when in Cornwall (who's parent and grandparent don't like me and my wife at all, so we are unlikely to have similar taste in schools) is going to but hasn't started at yet. In Armishire."

Or are we supposed to think the CS is so famous that it's the first school he would think of in the circs. Which makes the whole thing a great big slightly unbelievable coincidence.


The GGBP edition says that Mr. Barrass "...went up to London to some place where they advise you about schools."

Sounds like an agency like Emetis.


hac
Author:  Caroline [ Wed May 20, 2009 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
Ahhh - I'd forgotten about the "agency who tell you about schools". Thanks, hac.

I guess if the CS was considered suitable to receive the daughter of two famous artists then either it had a decent standing in the educational world or Madge was bribing the agencies... :lol:

I'm sure that Gran and Mother chose Howells because of the CS, but ML doesn't find out that's where she's going until she's already made friends with the Maynards and Russells - don't the Triplets assure her that she can't possibly be going to the village school during their first meeting... Yes, here we are - ML's first intro to the CS - it's clear she doesn't know anything about it until told by the Trips:

Quote:
Mary-Lou had already heard of this beloved aunt and the four cousins, David, Sybil, Josette, and Ailie. She had also heard of the big school where all the girls went which belonged to the same aunt, though she did not teach in it. And she had heard of "Auntie Rob" and "Auntie Daisy" who weren't real aunts at all, but lived at Plas Gwyn when they weren't away.
'Oh, I wish you could come,' she said mournfully. 'It's so lonely by myself.'
'Best come to school with us, then,' advised Con, standing up. 'Heaps of girls there. You wouldn't be lonely then.'
'I am going to school. That's one reason why we came to live here. But I don't know if it's your school.'
'Sure to be,' said Len 'There isn't any other near 'cept the village school; and you won't go there.'


Phew!
Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Wed May 20, 2009 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
I quite like the friendship between Clem and Mary-Lou - it's a normal, natural friendship rather than some of them where you get 'she's a new girl I have to sheepdog and we end up being friends for the sake of not having to introduce more characters', or so it feels.

I also wonder if it was supposed to be a second Joey and Simone? Mary-Lou gets quite possessive over being with Clem, going so far as to blatantly break rules by working out of hours, and I can imagine Simone doing something similar - and she does do things equally drastic - if she thought it would stop her being separated from Joey.
Author:  Alison H [ Wed May 20, 2009 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
I like the friendship between Mary-Lou and Clem. One the school expands, we don't see many friendships between people in different sections of the school. Also, after the early books, (except between sisters or cousins) we don't see a lot of friendships that cross over from home to school (Ricki Fry and Sue Mason are about the only other example I can think of).

I just wish we'd seen more of it after Three Go: they were obviously still close, more so than Len and Prunella who were also friends who were in different parts of the school but drifted apart, but we never really see them together in Switzerland. I'd like to have seen Mary-Lou turn to Clem in Reunion.
Author:  MJKB [ Thu May 21, 2009 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
Alison H wrote:
but we never really see them together in Switzerland. I'd like to have seen Mary-Lou turn to Clem in Reunion.


Yes, that was a lost opportunity. From here on in, Joey becomes ML's 'bessie'.
Clem is one of the nicest characters in the series. She never comes out with blatently snobbish comments such as the one made by Len in Three Goes about the 'village school'. In one of the later books Clem (I think it's Clem) mentions a girl she sat beside at one of her many schools who used to reek of fish and chips because her father owned a f&c shop. She doesn't say it dismissively either, so obviously her parents didn't think a mere 'village school' was beneath their daughter.
Author:  JB [ Thu May 21, 2009 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
This is one of my favourite friendships. It feels natural, and is close and affectionate whilst allowing them both to have other friendships with girls of their own age.

They do remain close after Clem has left school - Mary Lou excuses herself from a walk in Trials (which also gives her a reason to stay with Naomi Elton) to write to Clem, as it's the anniversary of her parents' death and a letter will help to cheer her up.

It's a shame Clem and Tony have disappeared from the series by the time Commander Carey and Doris die. They've lived with the Trelawneys since before their own parents died and would have been close to the Careys. I think Clem could have been a great support to Mary Lou.
Author:  LizzieC [ Fri May 22, 2009 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
Alison H wrote:
I'd like to have seen Mary-Lou turn to Clem in Reunion.


You're right there Alison, that would have been beautiful for a number of reasons. First, Clem was probably rather close to Doris, especially after her own parents died. Second, Clem had been in the very position Mary-Lou was in after her parents died when Clem was a similar age (or so we're led to believe). In that way, I think Clem could have given Mary-Lou better advice and a more supportive shoulder than Joey's*, especially given how close Mary-Lou and Clem are shown to be in the books.

*Part of me questions how much Jo would have actually known about Mary-Lou's situation. Yes, she was an orphan, but her parents are supposed to have died when she was a baby too young to know what had happened and who and what she had lost. There is the "loss" of Jack in Highland Twins, but I'm not sure that is the same thing.
Author:  Sunglass [ Fri May 22, 2009 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
LizzieC wrote:
*Part of me questions how much Jo would have actually known about Mary-Lou's situation. Yes, she was an orphan, but her parents are supposed to have died when she was a baby too young to know what had happened and who and what she had lost.


Absolutely. There are a few of these moments in the late books where, to make Joey look empathetic, EBD completely disregards the fact that other people are much better qualified to help and understand - like Clem here, and also things like EBD apparently forgetting that Eustacia lost her parents in her teens, and would be accustomed to undergraduate crisis, and so is well-situated to help and understand Evelyn when her mother has a relapse and is facing death, maybe rather more than Joey in this instance...?

I agree it's a pity we don't see adult Clem reappear - she was such a likeable, sane schoolgirl, well able to handle Mary-Lou, I suppose in part because she knew her from before her schooldays, and knew her family circumstances and how isolated her childhood had been. Also, I often find EBD's characters far too bossy for my taste, but Clem carries it off with a combination of common sense and practical kindness that's very easy to like. And it's nice to know something of her home life, too, with her bohemian artist parents and peripatetic life, where she has to be the adult quite often. I find her maturity and level-headedness much more convincing than someone like Len's somehow, I suppose because you can see why she's had to grow up fast and take the reins a bit...
Author:  Sarah_K [ Mon May 25, 2009 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
What is Clem doing at the time of Reunion? She tends to fade away completely in the later books which is a pity as she and Mary Lou were a rather lovely pair of friends I think.
Author:  Alison H [ Tue May 26, 2009 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
She was either at art school or off painting somewhere.

I realise that EBD set up the Mary-Lou-alone-on-the-Platz thing partly to fit in with Grizel's story and partly so we could see Joey being Mary-Lou's best friend, but it never seems very realistic to me. I realise that it's not always possible to take time off from university or work to help friends in need, however much you might want to, but, given that Doris had taken Clem and Tony in after they were orphaned, surely they would have been around both when she died and also to support Mary-Lou afterwards. And surely people like Vi and Hilary would have tried to support Mary-Lou and Verity after their bereavement.
Author:  JayB [ Tue May 26, 2009 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
Quote:
I realise that it's not always possible to take time off from university or work to help friends in need.... but, given that Doris had taken Clem and Tony in after they were orphaned, surely they would have been around both when she died and also to support Mary-Lou afterwards.


And Reunion is holiday/vacation time. And considering that in the previous book, Clem had been with a sketching party somewhere near the Platz, and had been able to drop everything to come and help out her old school's panto, I think taking time to go to the support of a bereaved close friend who was almost an adopted sister would have been quite possible.
Author:  Sunglass [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
JayB wrote:
And considering that in the previous book, Clem had been with a sketching party somewhere near the Platz, and had been able to drop everything to come and help out her old school's panto, I think taking time to go to the support of a bereaved close friend who was almost an adopted sister would have been quite possible.


I remember finding that panto bit absolutely mad when I first read it, along with the suggestion that some serious consideration was actually given to having Verity fly out from the UK to reprise her Fairy Queen part, before poor Con has to step in an learn it in a day! (Rather than simply postponing the pantomime slightly to allow a rearrangement of parts. And would the CS have paid Verity's airfare...?) But absolutely, you'd think that a writer with such a strong sense of the debt of gratitude and loyalty old girls owe their school would feel the same is the case, more so, for ties of friendship when one person is in need. It's one of the recurrent weaknesses of the late books that EBD allows her desire to put Joey centre stage to give herself permission to ignore logic, character and long-established relationships she herself has written, as with Clem here. (It happens again when Joey drops everything and gets on a plane to help Mary-Lou close up her mother's house, when surely M-L must have had friends who could have helped who were in the UK, and without so many small children that they needed to take three exam-taking daughters out of school for childminding?)

Is it that, by the late books, she has lost interest in anything apart from plotlines involving Freudesheim, or that she genuinely assumes her readers are only interested in that, and won't be interested in a return by Clem?
Author:  Nightwing [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Friendships: Mary-Lou and Clem
Actually, Joey stepping in to help ML when she's in need of someone makes a lot more sense to me than her constantly having to help out the school with problem new girls. Joey's been there for ML right from her introduction - when ML needs to talk to someone about her father's death, it's Joey who helps her; when ML is badly injured in the sledding accident Joey stays by her side until her own parents can arrive. I also never thought the scenes in Reunion were about Joey understanding ML's loss so much as they were about her knowing that the way she was behaving wasn't healthy for her - she was refusing to let herself grieve.
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