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Fashion
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7515

Author:  JB [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Fashion

The Chalet School books span the period from the 1920s through to the late 1960s; a time of many changes in fashion, from dropped waists through to mini skirts, and encompassing rationing and the New Look on the way.

Clothes are described in some detail throughout the books from Joey’s frocks and hats to the change to a uniform dress in the Swiss years. A great deal of emphasis is placed on being smartly dressed, with all the adjectives “trig”, “trim” and “neat” used extensively. We’re also told that it’s important to learn how to choose your own clothes from a young age (Richenda) and that one has a duty to keep oneself neat and tidy (Ruey).

A quick search of the books turned up few references to fashion in relation to clothes – Mrs Carrick is described as being of “fashionable dress” in School At, Zephyr Burthill is described as being very fashionably dressed in Rescue (in contrast to Joey who is wearing a very old cotton frock when they meet) and in Trials we’re told that Yseult Pertwee “shows signs of being anxious to be fashionable, if you’ll believe it!” after her move to Boston.

Most mentions of fashion are in relation to hair styles – Joey begins to grow her hair in New House because “long hair is coming back into fashion” and in Highland Twins Jo refers to the “fashionable long bob”. In Mary Lou, the whole of form Vb decide to adopt more grown up hairstyles overnight.

Do you think fashion was important to EBD?
Does she use fashion to tell us something about characters?
Do the books reflect the changes in fashion? Is it possible to tell when they were written?
What’s your favourite fashion moment in the series?
Is there any outfit you think sounds particularly ghastly?

Please discuss these and any other issues relating to fashion in the CS.

Thanks to Tor for the idea for this discussion.

Author:  MJKB [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I think EBD was more concerned with dressing well rather than dressing fashionably. In fact as JB implies, fashionably dressed characters are often regarded as suspect. EBD's strictures on good dress sense are as dated as Joey's hairstyle.
JB wrote:
Is there any outfit you think sounds particularly ghastly

Joey's predelection for lime green sound pretty vile, and the description of the new uniform, especially considering it would grace the forms of young adults of 17 and 18, beggers belief. I can't think of anything more awful to put on a buxum, pear shaped teenager, but then I'm forgetting how trig, trim and neat all the CS girls are!

Author:  Alison H [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

It's interesting that Mrs Carrick, Zephyr and Yseult are all described as being fashionable, because they're all "bad" characters. I get the impression we're meant to think that being a dedicated follower of fashion is a sign of frivolity and vanity :wink: .

The new uniform sounds horrendous, more like something a little kid'd wear than something that someone in their late teens'd wear!

I think that, in terms of fashion, hair, make-up etc the CS idea is that you should look smart and tidy rather than worrying about being "fashionable". There's something to be said for that - I've got some horrendous photos of myself in my early teens with huge hair and shoulder-padded tops :lol: , and there are some "interesting" photos of my mum and my auntie with beehive hairdos in the '60s and my dad with sideburns and purple flares in the '70s :lol:. However, whilst some fashions are just horrendous and others don't suit particular individuals (I'm so glad I wasn't around in the '20s, because a dropped waistline and a short skirt on someone with my body shape would have looked seriously hideous to say the least!), if you wear things that are too out of date you can look rather odd, and get the impression that that might've applied to some of the CS people by the end of the series.

Changing your hairstyle can be quite an important way of making a statement, and I feel sorry for people like Ted who are told that they can't do so without parental permission! In the early days, putting your hair up was a sign of adulthood, and in the later books we see Mary-Lou and Con changing their hairstyles to make themselves look more grown-up, and (IIRC) poor Len getting nagged for doing the same thing. There was much more of a divide between children's clothes and young adults' clothes then - young boys only wearing short trousers, etc - and Joan Baker is strongly criticised for wearing clothes which are too grown-up.

I quite like the moment in one of the Swiss sales when some poor mistress wins "a charming lime-green twinset" knitted by Joey :lol: . She was probably praying that it wouldn't fit so that she'd have an excuse not to wear it!

Author:  Loryat [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Alison H wrote:
It's interesting that Mrs Carrick, Zephyr and Yseult are all described as being fashionable, because they're all "bad" characters. I get the impression we're meant to think that being a dedicated follower of fashion is a sign of frivolity and vanity :wink: .

Agreed on Zephyr and Mrs Carrick, but I think Yseult's penchant for fashion is supposed to be seen as a positive thing, since it means she's abandoning her passion for the 'picturesque' and 'medieval'.

I think, as a quite elderly person by the time the last books were written, it's not surprising that EBD doesn't talk about fashion more. Since the books were being written in the late sixties but were still set in the late fifties, she maybe couldn't decide how to even approach it. She probably deplored the fashions of the time but didn't want to alienate her new young readers. :D (Wonder what she would have thought of the Armada covers where all the girls are basically wearing miniskirts and have highly styled hair?)

I have to same I'm quite glad of this. Brilliant as she is, some of the AF moments when Kingscote has moved into the modern age make me squirm a bit. I find the fashion bits quite convincing, especially Nicola and Lawrie's decision to keep their 'Changear' clothes because otherwise they'll never get anything half so cool, but other moments just don't work for me.

I am very intruiged by the idea that Con seems to be using some sort of gel to keep her fringe back (in Summer Term). Surely this would not be allowed (and look weird)? Or was the gel just for the Sale? Is it mentioned in later books if she wears a headband or something?

I have never even been able to imagine the new uniform dress, but apparently the Chaletians think it's the bees knees!

Author:  violawood [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

There's the part in At War where the girls try to be fashionable and Miss Everett calls them 'vulgar'(!)

IIRC in Behind the Chalet School various people reminisce that Elinor herself tended to be untidy in appearance - so perhaps there's some wish-fulfilment in the books. I was reading the first Isabel Dalhousie book a while ago and Alexander McCall Smith has Isabel wondering if it's a duty for people to look tidy because of others - I wonder if he's a secret CS fan :D

Overall, I think EBD is striving for a classic simple look - I agree that she thinks that excessive interest in fashion would be vain.

Author:  RubyGates [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

violawood wrote:
There's the part in At War where the girls try to be fashionable and Miss Everett calls them 'vulgar'(!)


That bit in At War really annoys me because though Miss Everett may have had a point about the bright red lipstick on schoolgirls, I don't see why she objects to the headscarfs. Women working in the factories wore those not to be fashionable but to keep their hair out of the machines. They were practical pieces of clothing and looked very neat in all the pics I've ever seen. My mother-in-law worked in a factory during the war and she was the least vulgar person I ever knew! I wonder what those women would have thought of women like Miss Everett having a "cushy" job in a school? They'd have probably wondered why she hadn't been called up or voluntarily joined the Land Army as she was a gardener rather than a teacher.
Sorry, finished ranting on behalf of hard-working war time women :oops:

Author:  trig [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Rubygates wrote

Quote:
violawood wrote:There's the part in At War where the girls try to be fashionable and Miss Everett calls them 'vulgar'(!)

That bit in At War really annoys me because though Miss Everett may have had a point about the bright red lipstick on schoolgirls, I don't see why she objects to the headscarfs. Women working in the factories wore those not to be fashionable but to keep their hair out of the machines. They were practical pieces of clothing and looked very neat in all the pics I've ever seen. My mother-in-law worked in a factory during the war and she was the least vulgar person I ever knew! I wonder what those women would have thought of women like Miss Everett having a "cushy" job in a school? They'd have probably wondered why she hadn't been called up or voluntarily joined the Land Army as she was a gardener rather than a teacher.
Sorry, finished ranting on behalf of hard-working war time women




Agree with you. It's one of EBD's nasty snobbish moments. This book is rather full of them with the laughing at evacuees as well.

Author:  MJKB [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

In Wins the Trick we are introduced to the first jeans wearing character, Audrey Everett. It's like a watershed in that it brings the air of the sixties into the CS. I know they wore jeans in the '50s, but somehow or other, Audrey, before she starts the CS, seems more of a product of the next decade.

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

JB wrote:
Zephyr Burthill is described as being very fashionably dressed in Rescue (in contrast to Joey who is wearing a very old cotton frock when they meet) ...


I always wonder about the fact that Zephyr apparently mistakes Joey for a servant in that first scene, where Joey is wearing an old frock.

I can't remember whether we know anything about the newness or otherwise of the Burthill money, but I wondered whether EBD intended us to grasp the class distinction in dress between Joey (who is upper-middle at least and married into county gentry, and who is socially perfectly secure in her old dress around the garden, though she does dress 'properly' in a suit when going to town), and dressed-up Zephyr in her flash car, with her 'Easter egg' make-up, who doesn't instinctively recognise that Joey is not a servant, from her looks, voice and manner. It seems like it's being reinforced by the fact that Zephyr behaves badly to her chauffeur, and Joey is thoughtful to him - noblesse oblige meets 'fashionable' but ill at ease new money, which misreads socially-secure old clothes as poverty, and expects some kind of dressed-up appearance from a Doctor's Wife?

I'm always fascinated by the fact that when Mary-Lou and Vi are at the Sale in, I think, Prefects, discussing their clothes, the black hat and green frock OOAO is wearing sounds exactly like the kind of thing Joey has been wearing since she left school, and is still wearing at the end of the series! Despite EBD obviously disliking fashion, I would have thought she would have approved of some kind of distinction in dress between a woman of around 40 and two fairly recent school-leavers...?

Author:  Loryat [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

EBD's snobbery usually reveals itself in that way - in that when she shows people being snobbish, who we're obviously supposed to disapprove of, they're always 'new money'.

I am really bad at imagining what people are supposed to be wearing in books that aren't set now, since usually I have no idea what they're talking about. Usually I just phase the clothes descriptions out, unless they're simply described eg in 'coat and skirt' and even then I'm sure I've got it wrong half the time!

Author:  Tor [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

When I suggested this as a topic (very excited to see it coming round for discussion, btw :D ), it was because I was really interested in the tension between EBDs interest in clothes (as seen in the rather large amount of text given over to descriptions of outfits), and her opinions on those clothes via the authorial voice (as well as in the mouths of various characters of authority, i.e. opinions that aren't challenge), and a number of her snide comments about 'fashionable' wear.

These latter comments seem to appear more frequently in later books (I haven't counted, by the way, but it feels like it), although they are mentioned earlier too (i.e. Mrs Carrick).

Now, I think there are also a number of negative comments about people dressing unfashionably and looking outmoded. I can't find any, but I am sure that I remember some. Maybe I am confusing it with other books.

While it is easy to say that EBD associated fashion with wordliness and vanity, I am not sure that this is 100% the case. There is considerable praise for women and girls who take interest in their clothes and appearance, and this could be seen that EBD approved of a certain level of worldliness (if not vanity). I'm not sure, even, if the reference to Mrs Carrick as 'fashionable' at this stage can definitely be seen as a negative character point (despite her being a 'baddy'). It could simply be seen, perhaps, as a way of making the caddish couple more glamorous, all round, and to underline the contrast between their well-to-do image and their financial reality...?

She also likes to portray the mistresses etc as young, pretty and able to impress new girls on the spot with their clothes etc. I sort of think that EBD would have it that, in CS-land, the mistresses *were* fashionable. But the annoying real-world fashions, which she doesn't like, keep breaking in on that fantasy.

And, then, of course we get the move from fashion as couture (1920's and 1930's being the hey day..?), and fashion as high turnover, mass-produced and available to the unwashed masses (post-war). It's the latter, i think, that really gets EBDs goat and brings out her nasty snitty, snobby side.

not 100% sure on this, and basically rambling out loud etc etc

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Tor wrote:
Now, I think there are also a number of negative comments about people dressing unfashionably and looking outmoded. I can't find any, but I am sure that I remember some. Maybe I am confusing it with other books.


I think, like it being a good thing that Yseult has stopped being 'picturesque' and started being fashionable, that Mrs Pertwee's bright 'arty' style of dress would have been seen as unfashionable in a bad way. A bit like it being bad that Edna Purdon refuses to wear the 'appropriate' makeup her peer group wears.

Tor wrote:
I sort of think that EBD would have it that, in CS-land, the mistresses *were* fashionable. But the annoying real-world fashions, which she doesn't like, keep breaking in on that fantasy.

Yes, think of the 60s books and what the mistresses would have had to be wearing to count as 'fashionable' then - micro-minis etc. Or maybe the staff had a strict dress code of 'trig' classic separates...? I'm always surprised that only Hilda seems to wear an academic gown - I would have thought it would have solved elements of EBD's dilemma as to how to make her teachers look impressive and professional without letting fashion in the door...

Tor wrote:
And, then, of course we get the move from fashion as couture (1920's and 1930's being the hey day..?), and fashion as high turnover, mass-produced and available to the unwashed masses (post-war). It's the latter, i think, that really gets EBDs goat and brings out her nasty snitty, snobby side.


That's interesting to think about. The implications early on are that various items of clothing are made, rather than bought off the peg, from what I remember - isn't it implied that the dresses that Madge, Robin and Joey wear for Christmas at the Mensches are not bought? The early CS tunics are certainly made, of course, and Madge wears hand-knitted stockings in Chalet. But what about the period after clothes rationing ended for someone very comfortably off like Joey - would her endless green frocks have been more likely to be bought or made? Kathie Ferrars chooses her CS outfit from shops, doesn't she? And Joan Baker's unsuitable (and probably fashionable?) dresses are bought in shops, which makes sense. But there's still a lot of home knitting going on, and not just baby clothes - there's the divine lime-green twinset, after all!

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Cosimo's Jackal wrote:
The implications early on are that various items of clothing are made, rather than bought off the peg, from what I remember - isn't it implied that the dresses that Madge, Robin and Joey wear for Christmas at the Mensches are not bought?


Mlle Lepattre made them :D .

Ah, that's another thing. There has been much debate here in Manchester recently :D about whether or not the idea that "Latin" people have some sort of natural flair for fashion is true, because people seem to think that City's new Italian manager wears a football scarf better than our Scottish manager or indeed British managers in general do :roll: :lol: . EBD's always going on about this (Latin flair for fashion, I mean, not football scarves!). Simone's "French fingers" apparently tie bows etc more neatly than other people's English/Austrian fingers do, Barbara Chester has apparently picked up, as well as a knowledge of the French language, a French flair for looking smart, and for some inexplicable reason Joey has the "Latin gift" of being able to look smart. Maybe Yseult would've looked great had she been French ...

I once read a history of Marks & Spencer's (don't ask!) which had a lot in it about the move from making your own clothes or getting them made by a dressmaker to buying off-the-peg stuff. Maybe in Tyrol days off-the-peg clothes would've been looked down on by CS people, but in the post-war years they'd've become the norm?

Author:  Tor [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Quote:
Yes, think of the 60s books and what the mistresses would have had to be wearing to count as 'fashionable' then - micro-minis etc. Or maybe the staff had a strict dress code of 'trig' classic separates...? I'm always surprised that only Hilda seems to wear an academic gown - I would have thought it would have solved elements of EBD's dilemma as to how to make her teachers look impressive and professional without letting fashion in the door...


I have this (probably unfair) idea of EBD secretly wanting to be a trend-setter. I think she had strong opinions on clothes, and was very interested in them, and perhaps hoped to influence a generation of school-girls with her her style-opinions. I think this little fantasy is acted-out in the 'fashion show' put on to show-case the new Swiss uniform. That is why she *didn't* circumvent the clothes/fashion issue by hiding her mistresses trig figures under academic gowns.

Can't you just imagine EBD sitting next to Anna Wintour at New York Fashion week? Or hundreds of style-maganzine pens gushing over green-being-the-new-black. If only she'd been born later... in this dya and age, she might have been able to have been a celebrity with her own signature line in M&S :lol: :lol: :lol:

Author:  emma t [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

The Chalet School authorities were more interested in their pupils being smart, rather than in the lastest fashion; perms were frowned upon, as was makeup, though I seem to recall that some of the elder girls were allowed to wear powder, though!

Joey was not into fashion; I completly agree over the Zephyr issue :) she was very critical about her to her friends after her first meeting with her.

It makes you wonder if the girls would have been allowed to wear mini skirts during the 60's - you never actually hear of them wearing them, but more than likely they might have been frowned upon at the CS - can you imagine a line of Chalet School pupils going out in them ??!!!! Matron would have had several fits :mrgreen: it would have been good to see it just for the reaction :halo:

Did they wear them when at home during the holidays? I know that Joan Baker (?) went out to dances with boys, so I would imagine she did as she seemed to go out of her way to be rebellious, but as the girls in her area may have been doing it as the norm of the time.

Author:  JB [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I always enjoy it when you ramble, Tor. :)

I did come across references to things being old-fashioned when I went through the books for this discussion, applied to many things and not just (or even mainly) clothes. I can’t remember any specifics though. I agree that EBD would have felt that the mistresses and Joey were all fashionable. I agree also that EBD was snobbish about clothes with a firm view that one doesn’t buy cheap, showy clothes but one “good” item. I wonder what she’d have made of all the cheap, mass-produced, fast turnover clothes available now. This is from The Lost Staircase:

Quote:
'Auntie Anne had dinned it well into her in New Zealand. How often had she said, ‘Buy good, and make it last. It always pays. And never economise on gloved, stockings, shoes, or handkerchiefs. And always have your underthings good rather than your frocks and coats and hats if it comes to a choice.’


It seems to me that clothes, along with make up and boys, are something in which a nicely brought up girl takes no interest until the proper time but, even then, to show too much interest is a bad thing. In Oberland, Peggy tells Edna that she should wear some make up and we’re given an explanation as to how Mollie Bettany has taught her daughters the correct use of make up. In the couple of months since Peggy left school, wearing make up has become acceptable and even desirable but would have been unacceptable when she was still at school. The opposite sex are treated in a similar way; girls can’t so much as contemplate the fact they might one day marry but usually do marry young and become engaged very quickly once they meet a man. Sorry, I seem to be going OT here. :oops:

I can’t decide if EBD thinks Yseult’s interest in fashion is a good thing or not. This is the full quote:

Quote:
Anyway, according to Corney, even Yseult has begun to improve since she’s been at an American High School. She’s actually had her hair cut and Corney says shows signs of being anxious to be fashionable, if you’ll believe it!

“Oh, lord!” Hilary exclaimed disgustedly. “Well, I suppose it’s what you might expect. After going all out for the picturesque and artistic, she was safe to swing violently in the opposite direction.”


It does bear out Cosimo’s Jackal’s quote that the arty look wasn’t a good thing but it’s interesting that Hilary sees fashion as something extreme.

I shall end my own ramble with my personal favourite fashion moment from New Mistress when the staff dress up in their worst dresses for the prefects’ party. Really not what one expects of one of our dear mistresses. :shock:

Quote:
“Goodness, Dorothy! I’d forgotten that old red frock of yours!” Nancy Wilmot exclaimed as Miss Lawrence arrived in a crimson silk-and-wool dress which was skin-tight and short into the bargain. “What on earth have you done to it? It’s nearly up to your knees!”

“I washed it and the wretched thing shrank every which way,” Miss Lawrence saif with a rueful look at it. “I was wild about it, for it was one of my favourite kits; but I couldn’t possibly wear it like this as a general thing. I came across it when I was hunting up for the worst I had and it struck me as just right.”

“Well, all I can say is that I hope it holds together for the whole evening,” Miss Annersley commented as she eyed her music mistress critically. “It looks as of you mighht burst out of it at any moment!”
“It is tight,” Miss Lawrence admitted, “but I think it’ll hold out. I’ve put on a red slip underneath just in case, though.”

Author:  Tor [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Quote:
I always enjoy it when you ramble, Tor.


Aah! Thanks JB :oops:

Quote:
'Auntie Anne had dinned it well into her in New Zealand. How often had she said, ‘Buy good, and make it last. It always pays. And never economise on gloved, stockings, shoes, or handkerchiefs. And always have your underthings good rather than your frocks and coats and hats if it comes to a choice.’


do you know, this quote makes me think of Hannibal Lector's comment to Clarice about her cheap shoes and hand-bag... :lol: :lol:

I *love* that quote from New Mistress! I reckon Dolly could have some fun in that dress!!! Set some ... ummm.... hearts racing at least :twisted: :twisted:

Author:  Lulie [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Quote:
'Auntie Anne had dinned it well into her in New Zealand. How often had she said, ‘Buy good, and make it last. It always pays. And never economise on gloved, stockings, shoes, or handkerchiefs. And always have your underthings good rather than your frocks and coats and hats if it comes to a choice.’


I'm with Auntie Anne on the matter of buying good underwear. I'd much rather spend my money on good underwear and kit the outer me from Asda or somewhere than buy cheap underwear that does nothing for me and falls to bits after two months.

edited to add: I always see the "trim and trig" dresses of the mistresses to be fairly classically styled dresses or blouses and straight skirts with American Tan stockings and plain black court shoes. I don't know why, but I do.

The dresses pictured on the 80s cover of Triplets are hideous and I hope they didn't really look like that. Con especially looks as if she's wearing a blue sack!

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

JB wrote:
I agree also that EBD was snobbish about clothes with a firm view that one doesn’t buy cheap, showy clothes but one “good” item. I wonder what she’d have made of all the cheap, mass-produced, fast turnover clothes available now. This is from The Lost Staircase:

Quote:
'Auntie Anne had dinned it well into her in New Zealand. How often had she said, ‘Buy good, and make it last. It always pays. And never economise on gloved, stockings, shoes, or handkerchiefs. And always have your underthings good rather than your frocks and coats and hats if it comes to a choice.’


You get pretty much exactly the same thing in School by the River, where the bad girl has lots of cheap clothes, and the genteelly-impoverished good girl a single 'good' inherited evening dress. Would anyone else see the insistence on hankies and underthings and having to 'make it pay' as slightly socially anxious, though? As if prioritising what you look like on the outside was inappropriately flash or nouveau, while a 'lady' is known by her good (but unnoticed or unseen in public) underclothes and basics.

I take Lulie's point about the cheap underwear of today not doing one's appearance any favours, but I'm not sure EBD would have been thinking about its shape-enhancing properties. I can see the logic in not buying cheap shoes and treating them well, and maybe the same with stockings, but not economising on hankies sounds a bit wilful (they were for blowing your nose on, after all!) and the glove thing was definitely a social tester, as they were visible, split and dirtied easily, and so often needed repair or replacement. Didn't someone say on here that EBD held her underthings together with pins??? Which actually sounds rather aristocratic and grand - Virginia Woolf was always accidentally walking out of her knickers on Oxford St! :D

JB wrote:
I shall end my own ramble with my personal favourite fashion moment from New Mistress when the staff dress up in their worst dresses for the prefects’ party. Really not what one expects of one of our dear mistresses. :shock:

Quote:
“Goodness, Dorothy! I’d forgotten that old red frock of yours!” Nancy Wilmot exclaimed as Miss Lawrence arrived in a crimson silk-and-wool dress which was skin-tight and short into the bargain. “What on earth have you done to it? It’s nearly up to your knees!”

“I washed it and the wretched thing shrank every which way,” Miss Lawrence saif with a rueful look at it. “I was wild about it, for it was one of my favourite kits; but I couldn’t possibly wear it like this as a general thing. I came across it when I was hunting up for the worst I had and it struck me as just right.”

“Well, all I can say is that I hope it holds together for the whole evening,” Miss Annersley commented as she eyed her music mistress critically. “It looks as of you might burst out of it at any moment!”
“It is tight,” Miss Lawrence admitted, “but I think it’ll hold out. I’ve put on a red slip underneath just in case, though.”


I love this moment - a respectable CS mistress attends a staff evening in what sounds like an almost obscenely short and tight red dress that might 'burst' at any moment, and red underwear! It always makes me want to break into a chorus of Sting's 'Roxanne'.
Does that throw any light on the 'mini-skirt' issue? Nancy exclaims at the shortness of the dress as being 'nearly up to your knees', which suggests it was intended to be a lot longer before the shrinkage, so considerably below the knee, rather than mini-ish. Or was that because it was an evening, rather than a day dress?

Author:  MaryR [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Mini skirts weren't really the fashion until the Sixties - and even went on in to the Seventies, as I seem to remember that the skirt of my *going away* outfit (how old-fashioned that sounds! :D) in 1973 was far too short for my liking. I hated the minis with a vengeance, not being blessed with long slim legs. :bawling:

Author:  MJKB [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I believe EBD would have approved of Sybil Connolly, the Irish dress designer, who had her hey day in the 50's and 60's. She did a great line in capes in heavy, Irish woollen fabrics, in golds and kelly greens (almost Jo's favourite colour), with jockey hats to match. Some of her crocheted eaving dresses have to be seen to be believed. Connolly refused to have anything to do with the liberated styles of the swinging 60's. I think she designed the aer lingus uniform, and she dressed politicans wives for formal and state occasions. I just know that Elinor would have been wowed by her.

Author:  Mel [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

In one of the later Swiss books, Jo appears at the Sale in her 'real' role as wife to the Head of the San in a brand new outfit and her emeralds, but she says after that she never feels comfortable in absolutely new clothes. This ties in with the idea that you shouldn't look as though you are trying too hard, so shabbyy but well-cut seems to be favourite for older women, preferably silk, and something fresh and dainty in cotton for young girls.

Author:  Miss Di [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Mini skirts weren't common until the mid to late sixties - before then the fashion was more like fifties fashion.

Interesting mini skirt history here :
http://www.fashion-era.com/the_1960s_mi ... til%201966

Jean Shrimpton caused an absolute scandal when she wore a mini dress to the races in Melbourne in 1965. It ended 10 cm above her knees!

Author:  Pado [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I can't really articulate it, but I instinctively know what EBD means. There's classic/"appropriate" and then there's "trying too hard"/fashion.

Neither of which you would recognize if you saw me walking down the street...

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I'll jump on the boat for buying well and expensive than cheap and not lasting! I'm actually hoping to go shopping today, because most of my t-shirts are now two years old and upwards, and I feel like a new wardrobe, even though there's nothing wrong with them :oops:

Again, I can see the difference, though it's difficult to articulate. I guess that it's like current fashions; there are people who can wear something and make it look like they just threw it on when they got up (as opposed to me, who actually does just throw something on because I don't care that much :oops:) and then there are people who look like they've tried too hard no matter how casual they try for.

Author:  janetbrown23 [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I remember being terribly disappointed when I saw EBD on television. She was a mess frankly and presumably had made a big effort for the occasion. She certainly was neither trig and neat or fashionable, in fact Mrs Pertwee came to mind rather than anyone else, not in the floaty, arty way but just in the general thrown together style.

Author:  Alison H [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I don't think that anyone at the CS was very fashionable :lol: , which is a great shame because the fashions of the '30s and the '50s were, IMHO, much nicer than anything either just before ('20s fashions must've looked horrendous on anyone who wasn't stick thin!) or since. I just tend to wear jeans/plain trousers and a long plain baggy jumper or T-shirt :oops: , but I've always quite fancied the idea of wearing full skirts (as long as they were full-length!) and glamorous hats and gloves :lol: .

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

ChubbyMonkey wrote:
I'll jump on the boat for buying well and expensive than cheap and not lasting!


I'm certainly with you there, on environmental grounds/the ethics of cheap manufacture in sweatshops etc, if no other. But it's a different issue to Auntie Anne in NZ saying that if it comes down to a choice between spending money on outer clothes (hats, frocks, coats) or spending money on underclothes, you should always choose the underclothes.

It sounds a bit mad, when you think about it. There seem to be several assumptions floating about it - like a 'lady' is known by her 'good' underwear, or that it would be 'flash' and rather lower-class to blow all your money on showy outer clothes, and wear rags underneath. (Might Joan Baker's underwear have been much less expensive than her elaborate outer wardrobe?) But really, if you were genteelly impoverished and needed to make your way in the world, would there really be much point in knowing you had on exquisite underclothes when the rest of the world, including potential employers and suitors, was judging you on your outer appearance? Maybe Mrs Pertwee was wearing beautiful underwear under the arty clothes EBD mocks!

Author:  RoseCloke [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Re: underwear

Is that the same sort of rationale that underpins 'always wear clean knickers in case you get hit by a bus'? Certainly my mother frequently produced that piece of advice. Although she also said you should have a spare pair in your handbag for the same reason. I imagine if you get hit by a bus you have other things to worry about than changing your underwear for the paramedics :shock:

I always loved the descriptions of the CS uniform, but never had a clear picture of what it would be like. The colours of the summer frocks appealed to me - I always imagined them like my frocks in primary school, something like this:

http://www.loughton.milton-keynes.sch.u ... orm011.jpg

Author:  Loryat [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Mel wrote:
In one of the later Swiss books, Jo appears at the Sale in her 'real' role as wife to the Head of the San in a brand new outfit and her emeralds, but she says after that she never feels comfortable in absolutely new clothes. This ties in with the idea that you shouldn't look as though you are trying too hard, so shabbyy but well-cut seems to be favourite for older women, preferably silk, and something fresh and dainty in cotton for young girls.

Is that perhaps just a reflection of Jo's character though? I can't imagine Hilda or Madge for eg wearing 'shabby' clothes.

I think EBD imagined the CS (older) girls and staff as being fashionable in a 'classic' sort of way. The books were set in the fifties after all.

Re: underwear. That is a completely baffling notion to me (I really need new pants as all the patterns are wearing off mine). But I suppose in the thirties with liberty bodices and stockings (did they wear such things?) you might not want to scrimp on underwear? Otherwise it makes no sense!

janetbrown23 wrote:
I remember being terribly disappointed when I saw EBD on television. She was a mess frankly and presumably had made a big effort for the occasion. She certainly was neither trig and neat or fashionable, in fact Mrs Pertwee came to mind rather than anyone else, not in the floaty, arty way but just in the general thrown together style.

:shock: :shock: :shock: EBD was on television?!?! Are there existing pictures???

Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Quote:
EBD was on television?!?! Are there existing pictures???


I think not, sadly. I checked the BFI archives, but they don't have a copy of the episode of the Tonight Show that she was on :(

Author:  Sarah_G-G [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

RoseCloke wrote:
Re: underwear

Is that the same sort of rationale that underpins 'always wear clean knickers in case you get hit by a bus'? Certainly my mother frequently produced that piece of advice. Although she also said you should have a spare pair in your handbag for the same reason. I imagine if you get hit by a bus you have other things to worry about than changing your underwear for the paramedics :shock:

I always loved the descriptions of the CS uniform, but never had a clear picture of what it would be like. The colours of the summer frocks appealed to me - I always imagined them like my frocks in primary school, something like this:

http://www.loughton.milton-keynes.sch.u ... orm011.jpg



Can I just say, I sort of see the rationale but I would be so much more embarassed by someone going through my bag and finding a pair of knickers than by not having a clean pair to change into should I be hit by a bus!

Author:  emma t [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Has there ever been a documentary made about EBD?I'd watch it like a shot if it ever came on tv!
It's a shame that the footage of her might not be in existance :( I'd have loved to have seen that too!

Author:  ammonite [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Surely the underwear would be a left over from the days of country house visiting, where the maid would unpack your bags for you and would gossip below stairs about who had the best clothes and having quality underwear shows real money and class rather than money and no sense or just outward flashiness. After all the Lorna Hill mention of cami knickers is dismissive of them!

I can imagine the EBD fashion sense is equivalent to the politicians wife fashion sense, the classic suit and pearls as opposed to catwalk fashion, which I can see her dismissing as flashy and cheap.

Author:  Alison H [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Sarah_G-G wrote:
Can I just say, I sort of see the rationale but I would be so much more embarassed by someone going through my bag and finding a pair of knickers than by not having a clean pair to change into should I be hit by a bus!


My mum's always told me to put a spare pair of knickers in my hand luggage when flying, so that if the airline loses my suitcase I'll at least have a clean pair to change into. An overzealous security guard at an American airport once decided to pull every single item out of my hand luggage, because he thought my mobile phone charger looked like a bomb (don't ask me why), so about a zillion people in the very long queue at the security check all got a good look at my Marks & Spencer's knickers. I was mortified :oops: :lol: .

Author:  abbeybufo [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I always put a spare set of underwear in my hand luggage if I'm flying - and often nightclothes too ...

Author:  RoseCloke [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I've had a couple of enforced handbag emptying sessions so I carry a bar of soap - can wash any articles overnight and leave them to dry :)

I hadn't thought about the maid unpacking the clothes, ammonite, that does make a lot of sense. Where did ordinary people go for underwear in the 1920s/1930s? I imagine schoolgirls wouldn't have had tailors... were there department stores that catered for everyone? Where would Joan have gone, for example, before the Pools win?

I'm always fascinated by these details, because GO books (and others) very rarely mention practicalities like teeth cleaning. It's one of the reasons I like the CS so much... as far as I can recall, no one at Mallory Towers ever had a bath, lukewarm or otherwise! :lol:

Author:  Fiona Mc [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Trust me, speaking as a nurse working in the Emergency Department (ED) we're not going to discuss the state of your underwear if you were hit by a bus, we're too busy cutting the clothes off you to worry or discuss what the state of your underwear is like. The only time that conversation ever came up was when someone was wearing them under their pj's and we were saying how none of us wore them to bed. When we had to take them off, we suddenly realised why she was weraring them and understood. I do remember on other conversation which raged in ED on e night and that was whether or not you wore it (ah, the conversations you have at 3 in the morning) and that was my argument for wearing undies was what if you were hit by a bus and all your clothes were cut off, would you really want to be completely naked like that or at least have undies on? The response: I don't care as I'll have to be unconcious to come in here!

And Alison I had the same experience at Heathrow when flying to Belfast. My mum had wrapped my alarm clock in newspaper and it didn't show up on Xray and so I had to unpack my entire bag to get to it

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

ammonite wrote:
Surely the underwear would be a left over from the days of country house visiting, where the maid would unpack your bags for you and would gossip below stairs about who had the best clothes and having quality underwear shows real money and class rather than money and no sense or just outward flashiness. After all the Lorna Hill mention of cami knickers is dismissive of them!


That's true - the plainness and lack of lace on the underwear of the heroine of Daphne du Maurier's Rebecca is sneered at by her temporary maid. But of course the same maids would have sneered at the lack of quality and expense of outer clothes, too, so it's not like you get off scot free if you have great underwear only! Remember in Gosford Park how dismissive Elsie (Emily Watson's character, the housemaid) is about the one poor-quality evening dress of the 'common' Mabel Nesbitt, who doesn't bring a maid of her own with her - and so are the other better-dressed guests.

I think a lot of underwear was made at home before mass-produced stuff became readily available in the shops, but not sure when that would have stopped being normal practice...

Author:  Nightwing [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Cosimo's Jackal wrote:
I think a lot of underwear was made at home before mass-produced stuff became readily available in the shops, but not sure when that would have stopped being normal practice...


When more woman started working, perhaps? Does anyone know?

Author:  MJKB [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

RoseCloke wrote:
I'm always fascinated by these details, because GO books (and others) very rarely mention practicalities like teeth cleaning. It's one of the reasons I like the CS so much... as far as I can recall, no one at Mallory Towers ever had a bath, lukewarm or otherwise! :lol:


Me too. I love the minutiae of school life that EBD supplies. I have a theory that EBD was as disorganised as I, and because of that she loved the idea of a smoothly running domestic machinery. I drool at the thought of the School's laundry facilities, the orderly procession of bath times in the morning, the tidy drawers, the stripping of the beds, the trig appearances of the girls etc, etc. I particularly envy Joey's laudry room and all those machines spewing forth perfectly laundered clothes that are immediately, and lovingly placed in lavender smelling drawers. I could go on and on....
There is a mention of a nightly bath in St.Clares, btw, and hair washing too.

Author:  JB [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

MJKB wrote:
I have a theory that EBD was as disorganised as I, and because of that she loved the idea of a smoothly running domestic machinery.


I subscribe to that theory too. There's a comment in Gay when Madge (?) tells Joey that she doesn't have the organisational skills to run a school (or words to that effect), which I always feel comes from the heart.

Author:  violawood [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Nightwing wrote:
Cosimo's Jackal wrote:
I think a lot of underwear was made at home before mass-produced stuff became readily available in the shops, but not sure when that would have stopped being normal practice...


When more woman started working, perhaps? Does anyone know?


I think Flora and Fauna had handmade underwear. Had a quick look on the Marks and Spark's site but couldn't find anything about the history of their knickers :D

I think it's only really very recently that the majority of people had many clothes at all - I was always fascinated as a child by descriptions of the girls' inventories and how extensive they were.

RoseCloke wrote:
Where did ordinary people go for underwear in the 1920s/1930s? I imagine schoolgirls wouldn't have had tailors... were there department stores that catered for everyone? Where would Joan have gone, for example, before the Pools win?


Co-operative societies catered for a lot of people. (tying in to the newspaper discussion - I'm not sure whether EBD would have seen them as thrifty self-help or promoting revolution :D ) I think people would still have been making most of their clothes, though. My secondary school introduced optional summer dresses in the mid-70s - you bought the fabric and had a choice of patterns for them - they weren't available off-the-peg.

Author:  janetbrown23 [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

When I was little (b1948) unless someone gave me something outgrown all my everyday clothes were of the one on, one off and one in the wash quantities. Since I was not a standard size and ready made clothes were expensive what I did have my Mother made for me. She also made all her own too.

At secondary school we made underclothes. I made(or rather started to make, don't think I ever finished anything) a full petticoat with quite complicated top but I don't think anyone actually made knickers.

Author:  MJKB [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

janetbrown23 wrote:
but I don't think anyone actually made knickers.


Oh yes they did! One of my older sisters did domestic science, as it was called then. One of her exam assignments was a set of underwear, a half slip and a pair of knickers in a pale blue seersucker material (isn't that the bubbly one?). The knickers were exceptionally modest, as they covered all essentials, and not like the flimsy things we wear nowadays.

Author:  sealpuppy [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I should think part of Joey's disapproval of Zephyr's extremely fashionable outfit could be to do with it being 1943 and clothes in short supply by then. Zephyr being kitted out in shiny new clobber must mean that she, or her doting father, is buying on the black market, mustn't it? And therefore Joey would certainly disapprove. But I also think Zephyr's father sounds like someone who might have made his millions as a war profiteer in WW1, and therefore doubly 'deserving' of Joey's disapproval!

BTW I had never been aware of Joey liking lime green til I stumbled across the CBB! Jade green, yes - but that's rather a lovely colour. Maybe someone donated the lime green wool for the twinset??

Author:  Kathy_S [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I think the lime green is an urban legend. As far as I know that twinset is Joey's only actual foray into the shade, outside of drabbles. We hear Con say that lime green and cream are her favourite colours, and we see Hilda wear lime green, but not Joey, though she does like green from early on, when the "little silky frock of soft dull green" from the silk Dick sends brings out the "faint flush of colour in her cheeks." (Madge gets the jade green in that round.)

Someday I will finish my scientific survey of dress color in the CS world.... So far orange is losing.

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I have to say when the colour lime green is mentioned, what I always find myself imagining is the fluorescent green of those high-visibility jackets or tabards worn by workers digging up the road, cops and stewards at football matches! I like to imagine the lime green twinset might have featured usefully in one of the search and rescue missions on the Platz... Maybe Gaudenz wore it on his stilts? :)

Author:  Tor [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I'd love to see the results of that survey Kathy_S! It seems to me, gut feeling - so obviously not to be trusted, that in Chalet-land any common-or-garden colour that gets mentioned without some kind of qualifier/adjective is usually not being mentioned in a favourable light.

Quote:
I like to imagine the lime green twinset might have featured usefully in one of the search and rescue missions on the Platz... Maybe Gaudenz wore it on his stilts? :)


:lol: :lol: :lol: Think of the consequences... If the real CS had had the Tanswick uniform, maybe Eustacia would have been found sooner and her injury avoided

Author:  JellySheep [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

But I don't think the brown is ever qualified as being a particular type, and it seems to be presented quite favourably, whereas various other colours are qualified, e.g. 'pillar-box red' for Elizabeth and Betty's lipstick, and are definitely bad.

Author:  MJKB [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I like the sound of the orignal brown uniform and it went well with the flame. The combination, although it's similar to the Malory Towers uniform, is better balanced. Did they keep to those colours in the English branch, does anyone know?
I never really liked the Swiss colours, especailly teamed with the cream blouses.
EBD must have had a grasp of true quality in clothes. In Princess she makes it clear that Veta's clothes are of a quality that Joey has never seen before but recognises how fine they are.
I was out shopping today with my just 16 year old daughter. I wonder what EBD would make of the prevailing skimpy dresses!

Author:  JB [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Kathy - I would also love to see the results of your survey.

I have to admit to being a huge fan of lime green (and similar shades). Today, I wore my green jacket with the pink flowery lining, possibly my favourite item of clothing. Anyone going to the gather on Sunday may well see me wearing it.

Author:  Cat C [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Quote:
She was a mess frankly and presumably had made a big effort for the occasion. She certainly was neither trig and neat or fashionable, in fact Mrs Pertwee came to mind rather than anyone else, not in the floaty, arty way but just in the general thrown together style.


Ah, well I wonder if this is where the 'French Woman's touch' comes in? I certainly know people who can look like they've slept rough even when dressed in a designer suit, and others who look as thought they've just stepped off the cat-walk when in jeans and a hoodie. I'm guessing EBD fell into the former category.

The thing about undies that's always intrigued me is this business of embroidery 'destined for underclothes'. How and where was it attached?!

Author:  Tor [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

embarrassingly, I have both a brown and flame fleece which I rather like wearing on mountains, and a couple of jumpers which could be described as (dark) gentian blue and crimson!

I swear I didn't buy them deliberately! :lol:

Quote:
The thing about undies that's always intrigued me is this business of embroidery 'destined for underclothes'. How and where was it attached?!


if this website is anything to go by, I imagine the the possibilities are legion :wink:

Quote:
I was out shopping today with my just 16 year old daughter. I wonder what EBD would make of the prevailing skimpy dresses!


Heavens, MJKB. I dread to think!

Author:  MJKB [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Tor, that website was fabulous, I only wish I was at least twenty years younger. I use to love nice underwear, particularly matching ones, now, as long as they're clean, big and comfortable, anything'll do to cover the bumps and lumps.

Author:  sealpuppy [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Re: where people bought clothes. I think you could buy underclothes at drapery shops.
When we moved to Hampshire in 1981 there was still an old fashioned draper's locally, lots of glass-fronted drawers with tights, stockings, vests, probably even cami-knickers, etc! And there was one shop in Romsey that my cousin always swore looked as if it still sold liberty bodices, though we never put it to the test. It had those really old fashioned plaster-looking mannequins with modelled hair - as opposed to a wig. And wearing modest petticoats, and twin sets. I assume all its old-lady clientele dropped off the perch, as it's now a charity shop.

Author:  Lulie [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

sealpuppy wrote:
Re: where people bought clothes. I think you could buy underclothes at drapery shops.
When we moved to Hampshire in 1981 there was still an old fashioned draper's locally, lots of glass-fronted drawers with tights, stockings, vests, probably even cami-knickers, etc! And there was one shop in Romsey that my cousin always swore looked as if it still sold liberty bodices, though we never put it to the test. It had those really old fashioned plaster-looking mannequins with modelled hair - as opposed to a wig. And wearing modest petticoats, and twin sets. I assume all its old-lady clientele dropped off the perch, as it's now a charity shop.


There is a shop like that in Middleton-in-Teesdale. My aunt came to visit and we stopped there to get some shoelaces (I think). She was in fits of giggles. As a 1930s baby she thought all such shops had died out with the sexual revolution :lol:

Author:  MJKB [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Would girls of Clem's age still be wearing liberty bodices in the '40s? I wonder did they graduate to bras when puberty kicked in.

Author:  Selena [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Kathy_S wrote:
I think the lime green is an urban legend. As far as I know that twinset is Joey's only actual foray into the shade, outside of drabbles.


I think just before Stephen was born when Joey managed to dye herself green she was actually trying to dye an old dress lime green...

Author:  cestina [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

MJKB wrote:
Would girls of Clem's age still be wearing liberty bodices in the '40s? I wonder did they graduate to bras when puberty kicked in.

I think it would have depended on how well-developed they were. We had liberty bodices on our clothing lists in the 1950s and we were actively encouraged to keep wearing them, rather than bras, for as long as possible. I was a "big girl" and had to move into a bra by the time I was 13 which was somewhat frowned on because I was still in a junior form.

Author:  Mia [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

The honeycombing sounds quite 60s I think. Perhaps EBD forgot she was meant to be writing about something set in the late 50s! I always got the impression she really liked clothes. There's something in her biog about how she helped with clothes at the theatre, I think, and how she wore a suit she'd knitted herself with no pattern.

Author:  MJKB [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

cestina wrote:
I was a "big girl" and had to move into a bra by the time I was 13 which was somewhat frowned on because I was still in a junior form.

The 'big girls' in my convent boarding school were treated with decided suspicion by the nuns. Some of them were so 'big' that they couldn't tie the top buttons on their tunics, and thery were always being pulled up for untidiness.

Author:  racheltp [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

JB wrote:
Kathy - I would also love to see the results of your survey.

I have to admit to being a huge fan of lime green (and similar shades)


This makes me feel much better about the acid green cardigan I bought a few days ago from Wallis!

As someone who has to dress (fairly) smartly for work and make an especial effort for various surgical soirees I am always glad to come home and change into the shabbiest and most comfortable of old clothes - which makes me wonder what on earth the mistresses changed into when they were off duty. I can't think of anything worse than sitting around all evening in the clothes I have worked in all day but perhaps I am not naturally 'trig and trim'.

Perhaps ... grim thought .. they all had a twinset knitted by Joey and were obliged to change into it as some sort of 'off-duty' chalet mistressess uniform.

Author:  Mel [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

The staff changed into 'evening' frocks which would be the adult equivalent of the girls' velveteens.

Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

abbeybufo wrote:
I always put a spare set of underwear in my hand luggage if I'm flying - and often nightclothes too ...

If you're travelling with someone else, always put a change of clothes in their suitcase, and get them to put a change in yours, so that if one of you loses a suitcase.... I, too, always take a change of clothes in my hand-luggage, and always my nightie, having learnt that one the hard way. Also as much washing-stuff as one is allowed.

Author:  Cat C [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Mrs Redboots wrote:
abbeybufo wrote:
I always put a spare set of underwear in my hand luggage if I'm flying - and often nightclothes too ...

If you're travelling with someone else, always put a change of clothes in their suitcase, and get them to put a change in yours, so that if one of you loses a suitcase.... I, too, always take a change of clothes in my hand-luggage, and always my nightie, having learnt that one the hard way. Also as much washing-stuff as one is allowed.


:lol: I always pack my hand-baggage with the thought in mind that the airline might lose my main (checked) bag. Drives me up the wall when people ask why I need 'all that' on the flight. Um, I don't. In the good old days, pre 9/11 paranoia, I never needed to check a bag for anything shorter than a two-week holiday. And arriving at an airport and not having to wait around to collect checked baggage is so much easier anyway.

And it's sound advice when travelling with someone else that you each pack half your stuff in each case, so that neither of you is sunk if one gets lost; it's called 'buddy packing'.

Author:  RubyGates [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Selena wrote:
Kathy_S wrote:
I think the lime green is an urban legend. As far as I know that twinset is Joey's only actual foray into the shade, outside of drabbles.


I think just before Stephen was born when Joey managed to dye herself green she was actually trying to dye an old dress lime green...


I though that lime green was an urban legend as well but I've just re-read the bit about Joey dying herself green and sadly it was an old, faded, lime-green frock she was dying. I presume she was trying to dye it another shade of green.

Author:  Nightwing [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

RubyGates wrote:
I though that lime green was an urban legend as well but I've just re-read the bit about Joey dying herself green and sadly it was an old, faded, lime-green frock she was dying. I presume she was trying to dye it another shade of green.


One day when I have too much time on my hands I am totally going to go through all the books I have and note any mentions of Joey's clothes. If only to relieve my own curiosity over the Lime Green Myth!

Author:  JS [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

At the last Scottish gather, JennieP did a quiz round about instances of lime green in the books - there was no shortage of questions (although most were fiendishly difficult).

Author:  violawood [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Ooh - any chance the CBB might have a go ? I love quizzes even though I never get more than a couple of answers :D

Author:  Tor [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

I would love to see this quiz as well, and the answers! Please JennieP, post it to Anything Else, please!

Author:  MJKB [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

JS wrote:
Scottish gather,

What was that please?

Author:  JS [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Quote:
JS wrote:
Scottish gather,

What was that please?


Some CCB-ers based in Scotland getting together for a 'gather' - not a big official one, just a few people chatting about EBD, everything else and eating nice food. I'm supposed to be organising one in Perthshire soon (note to self: get on with it) if you're interested. Info will be in the Gathering thread (you have to register for it). And we did a few wee quizzes just for fun.

Author:  Pat [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

The early 60s fashion was for full skirts and stiff petticoats, and I could easily see the staff wearing that, even if they didn't have the number of petticoats teenagers wore! I'm pretty sure that the female teachers at my schools wore things like that. When hems started to climb, adults lengths stopped way lower than proper minis, no more than a couple of inches over the knees. Even my mum's skirts showed her knees, and she'd have been in her 50s then.

The new honeycombed uniform always seemd totally dire to me, and I was of an age to have worn it if I'd gone to the CS. It bears no relationship to anything worn by anyone at that ime - or even in the 50s!

Author:  JennieP [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

If I can find it, I'll post it but no promises!

Author:  MJKB [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

JS wrote:
Quote:
JS wrote:
Scottish gather,

What was that please?


Some CCB-ers based in Scotland getting together for a 'gather' - not a big official one, just a few people chatting about EBD, everything else and eating nice food. I'm supposed to be organising one in Perthshire soon (note to self: get on with it) if you're interested. Info will be in the Gathering thread (you have to register for it). And we did a few wee quizzes just for fun.

I'd love info on that, how do I register?

Author:  JS [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

Have PM-ed you!

Author:  MJKB [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fashion

JS wrote:
Have PM-ed you!

Thanks a million.
Pat wrote:
The early 60s fashion was for full skirts and stiff petticoats, and I could easily see the staff wearing that, even if they didn't have the number of petticoats teenagers wore! I'm pretty sure that the female teachers at my schools wore things like that. When hems started to climb, adults lengths stopped way lower than proper minis, no more than a couple of inches over the knees. Even my mum's skirts showed her knees, and she'd have been in her 50s then.


My older sisters were teenagers at the time and I remember those amazing net petticoats. They were an absolute fascination to me. Between the petticoats and the beehives and the heavy black eye make up, everybody over the age of 16 looked like hookers, imo. The change in fashion between the early and the mid sixties has to have been the most radical of any age. The mini skirt celebrated youth, so everyone looked fresher and younger, and, ironically considering it marked the beginning of a much more promiscuous age, less whorish. I do wonder what EBD thought of the mini skirt. Perhaps she deliberately kept the trips at the CS and didn't move the series into the middle sixties in order to avoid having to deal with school girls who were likely to have objected to being dressed like 10 year olds in those awful, awful honeycombed frocks.

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