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Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School
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Author:  Fiona Mc [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Mary Lou at the Chalet School begins with Mary Lou returning a week late to school after the death of her Grandmother. She returns to find she is now Form Prefect for the first time and Dormitory Prefect. She also meets a new girl, Jessica Sefton who tells her at their first meeting that she loathes and despises her and will never like her. It is when Mary Lou visits Joey Maynard that Mary Lou is told of the reason behind Jessica’s unhappiness. Jessica’s mother has recently remarried a man with an invalid daughter, Rosamund and Jessica is jealous of the attention Rosamund is receiving from her Mother. She feels her Mother is trying to get rid of her by first making her a boarder at her school and by then sending her to the Chalet School and plans on making herself and everyone around her miserable. Joey asks Mary Lou to befriend her as she was in the same situation herself with her mother remarrying Verity’s Father. Mary Lou agrees somewhat reluctantly and starts by helping her during a Singing Lesson where Jessica comes to blows with Plato and intercedes with Hilda Annersley for leniency. We also see the Prefects have a fancy dress party, a school trip to the Rhine Falls and later Mary Lou have the talk with Jessica regarding step siblings and her feelings towards her step family. Mary Lou is then involved in a tobogganing accident with Emmerence Hope and it is believed for a few days that she may not recover and then later that she may not walk again. Emmerence starts to reform and while this is happening Jessica starts writing to Rosamund and bridging the relationship with her family.

The theme being discussed with this formal discussion is family and family relationships. The main family relationships are the relationships between step siblings, Jessica and Rosamund and Mary Lou and Verity. EBD shows two very different relationships. Jessica and Rosamund aren’t close and Jessica feels her step sister has usurped her place in her Mother’s heart. She loathes both her step father and step sister. Mary Lou on the other hand was close friends with Verity (See Three Go) long before their parents met and Mary Lou herself feels this helped their step sibling relationship. Into the mix Rosamund is also an invalid who is likely to die early.
How do people feel EBD handled step relationships?
Do people think she wrote about it realistically and which relationship is more realistic: Jessica and Rosamund or Verity and Mary Lou?
How do people feel about Mary Lou’s handling of the situation and how well do you think she helped Jessica come to a better understanding of her family?

We also have a death in the family. Mary Lou returns late to school as her Gran is dying. We see how her death affects Mary Lou and how she takes her Gran’s wisdom over her life time to heart and uses them to help others (namely in her discussion with Jessica re: step relationships). Verity her step granddaughter is sent back to school on time and not allowed to stay until Gran dies despite her wanting to.
How do people think/feel Gran’s death was handled?
Do people think it was realistic in the way Mary Lou handled her death?
And what do people think of Verity the step granddaughter being sent back to school on time and not being allowed to stay at home until Gran died with Mary Lou?

We also have the adopted relationships between characters. We have Joey as an adopted aunt to Mary Lou who uses her relationship with Mary Lou to ask her to help Jessica as she is in a similar relationship. Mary Lou is initially reluctant and feels pressured by her relationship with Joey. We also have Margot’s friendship with Emmerence which can also be argued that the pair fall into the category of having a friendship that is as close as family. Margot asks her father if the two should remain friends after the tobogganing accident.
How do people feel about how Joey pressured Mary Lou into helping Jessica?
Do you think this was fair of her?
How well do you think Jack handled Margot’s own questions regarding whether she should continue being close friends with someone who obviously leads her astray?

And finally we have the normal family relationships. Neither Joey nor Jack go near their daughter Margot for five days after Mary Lou is hurt despite the fact that she tried to stop the accident from happening. Neither parent wishes to leave Mary Lou to comfort their own daughter.
How do people feel this situation was handled by Jack and Joey?
Do people feel that Joey and Jack were fair to Margot or do people feel that they should have spared some time with their daughter?

Please discuss these and any other points you feel are relevant with the theme of family relationships.

Author:  Mel [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I will begin by looking at the stepsisters story-line. I think the Jessica/Rosamund relationship is very true to life, though the mother seems foolish in not being more understanding with her own daughter. I wished that Rosamund didn't have to die though. EBD likes people to get better and if they can't - it's curtains. Death is often dealt with very briskly by EBD so Mary-Lou doesn't grieve excessively for Gran (having been told not to) but it does seem hard on Verity - does it mean that she is not really part of the family? Or would she be useless and in the way? ML and Verity don't have problems adjusting because they have lived together already. We never see ML and Commander Carey togetherso we are to assume that they got on and as he seems frail even at this stage, he is hardly likely to see much of her or have any say in her doings. There is so much in this thread that I will come back later!

Author:  ammonite [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I actually re-read this the other day and thought that it was unfair on Verity having to come back to the CS before Mary-Lou especially as Verity has already lived once through loosing her Grandparents and might have been able to help Mary-Lou for a change but I guess that would have interfered with the character roles.

I also think Mary-Lou is unfairly pressurised into helping Jessica by Joey who doesn't really give her any room to manouvere after telling her Jessica's background story. Slightly seperately, I don't think Joey should have actually told her the story as it was confidential.

Author:  Alison H [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I think that the Jessica storyline was interesting, and handled well. The two stepsister relationships are very different but both plausible: Mary-Lou and Verity were already friends when they became stepsisters - although I'm just trying to think whether or not the start of Verity's decline from the strong person she is in Three Go to the broken reed she's described as later coincides with her father's remarriage - whereas Jessica resents Rosamund as she requires a lot of attention due to her illness.

I think Mary-Lou comes across well in this book, even though Joey shouldn't have told her all Jessica's private business. I know that the idea of "pastoral care" in schools wasn't really around in the 1950s, but Jessica was clearly unhappy and expressed that by the classic means of refusing to eat. The mistresses' answer to that was to send her to Matron, who dealt with it by threatening to force-feed her. Mary-Lou was the only person who tried to help her: yes, she stuck her nose in, but it was a good job somebody did.

I thought Jack handled the situation with both Emerence and Margot well, far better than he handled the situation with Margot in Theodora , but either he or Joey should have gone to Margot sooner.

One bit that really annoys me in this is when EBD gets totally confused over what she's done with poor Karen, because she sent her to work at the finishing branch in Oberland but then also moved her to the Gornetz Platz in Barbara. I tried to un-muddle that in a drabble by saying that Karen'd moved from Welsen to the Platz when the main Swiss branch opened, but EBD has Matey saying that she's been speaking to one Karen about the food at the main school and then Nell Wilson respinding by saying that she'd spoken to "our own Karen" about the food at the finishing branch! Minor point, but it really bugs me!

Odette has a similar experience to Jessica in that, although she's obviously unhappy, no-one does anything about it until Len steps in. I know that the staff had a lot to do, and that they didn't want to interfere in friendships etc, but it just seems at odds with the caring ethos of the CS that young girls who were so obviously unhappy were just left to be miserable without any of the staff even trying to find out what the problem was.

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

EBD seems to consciously set the book up as an idealised step-familial relationship (Verity and Mary-Lou, and their parents, too, to a much lesser extent) vs Jessica and Rosamund, and their respective parents.

I think Jessica is a realistic portrait of a neglected, resentful teenager. It's also fairly clear that her mother in particular behaves unwisely in not reassuring her of her love, and paying her more attention, and in colluding in sending her abroad to school - I suppose it's a combination of patriarchal times and EBD's liking for Dominant Heads of Household, but Jessica's stepfather comes out of this as more than a bit insensitive to his wife's child's needs, and of course gets a cosy set-up of a new wife looking after his invalid daughter full-time, without the complications of the offspring of a previous relationship to trouble the paradise! It's hard not to see that as selfish and manipulative.

But what I wanted to say is that the 'perfect' Trelawney/Carey stepfamily isn't, I think, so perfect - it has potentially a lot of cracks in it that EBD simply chooses not to focus on. What little we know of Doris and Commander Carey's relationship suggests they are a pair of emotionally and physically fragile people who drift into a late second marriage bedevilled with health problems from a combination of pity, survivor's guilt and a desire to give their father/motherless offspring a parent. And however good schoolfriends Mary-Lou and Verity are beforehand, being stepsisters isn't the same thing at all, so I never feel Mary-Lou's insistence that they were always 'pals' so everything is fine rings true, particularly. It seems as though EBD is brightly presenting what the Happy, Normal, Well-Adjusted girl should feel, but as she never allows Mary-Lou to give anything other than the normal, well-adjusted party line, it feels a bit tokenistic to me. The odd preference for 'sister-by-marriage' over 'stepsister' seems to function as giving OOAO something to say when her relationship to Verity is referred to, rather than any pause for someone to think about stepfamilies as potentially difficult like the Wayne/Seftons.

The other thing that occurs to me about the Trelawney/Carey household is that it must be implicated in Verity's decline from a stubborn, self-possessed little madam into a moony, weak, dependent - essentially, after Doris becomes her stepmother, she becomes a younger version of Doris, who can't even cope with getting ready to leave her cubicle in time in the mornings! By the time Commander Carey dies, Verity and Doris are seen as two heavily dependent obstacles to Mary-Lou's freedom, who have to be disposed of by death and marriage. EBD never links Verity's complete change of character to her father's remarriage, but surely it's an available reading that her mooniness and sudden inability to cope are a kind of reaction, like Jessica's anger...?

Author:  sealpuppy [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I agree that EBD idealises the step relationship with Mary Lou and Verity, but wasn't there something in her own past that probably influenced this? I'm sure I read that EBD's mother married and was then presented with a hitherto unmentioned stepson; I imagine she resented this and it must have coloured EBD's attitude: witness how she has the same thing happen with Grizel. With Mary-Lou, who was to become such a favourite, she couldn't have anything unpleasant like bitterness or rivalry as it would have reflected badly on ML.

(as a side comment, neither EBD or EJO seems to have understood the difference between step- and half-siblings though EJO does correct this later in the Abbey series. Thus you have the ludicrous insistence on ML and V not being stepsisters - which they most definitely are - but 'sisters by marriage'. Could this be the result of an EBD childhood hang-up? ie 'step' equals nasty/scary/bad?)

Re Gran: Mary-Lou has been brought up almost exclusively by adults and in particular by her grandmother, leaving her mother as a sweet but ineffectual cipher. ML is clearly exactly like her Gran and a very strong character brought up on the stiff upper lip principle, so it makes sense that she would be calm and brave about the latter's death.

I like ML in this book and indeed have very mixed feelings about her in the others. If EBD had left her alone and not turned her into a Junior Joey I would have liked her consistently!

Author:  Sunglass [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Cosimo's Jackal wrote:
The other thing that occurs to me about the Trelawney/Carey household is that it must be implicated in Verity's decline from a stubborn, self-possessed little madam into a moony, weak, dependent - essentially, after Doris becomes her stepmother, she becomes a younger version of Doris, who can't even cope with getting ready to leave her cubicle in time in the mornings!

Exactly! The Trelawney-Carey menage is presented as successful and happy all round, with 'pals' becoming stepsisters with no transitional hiccups, but as you say, Verity undergoes a complete personality change for the worse and begins to be seen as a burden and a weakling, rather than a rather stroppy young creature.

I know other people have linked it to the return of her father, but Doris as a weak, passive mother-figure seems like a more likely role-model. Maybe because Verity senses that Doris likes gentleness and passivity as a change from her bossy biological daughter - aren't we told more than once (maybe in Three Go) that Mary-Lou is 'rather too much' for her mother? Maybe the mooniness and dependence is Verity's bid to be accepted by her new stepmother and not to 'compete' in strength of personality with her stepsister? Do we ever hear anything from Verity, rather than Mary-Lou, on the marriage?

The choice of Mary-Lou as butter-in on Jessica has always struck me as a bit dubious on Joey's part. Mary-Lou is utterly well-meaning, and comes out of it all rather well. It's just that I wouldn't have thought that a desperately unhappy girl, who (with considerable justification) feels abandoned by her biological mother, rejected by her stepfather and resentful of her seriously ill stepsister, would have necessarily benefited from being lectured in a well-meaning way by someone who's only in a superficially similar situation, and who seems never to have had a moment's negative feeling about her mother's remarriage or getting a schoolmate as a stepsister. I think in Jessica's position, I'd have felt worse being presented with someone my age who was so utterly Pollyanna-ish about it all! :)

Or is Mary-Lou only forced into a position of being the acceptable public face which says everything's lovely and a stepfamily is completely uncomplicated and loving, because EBD is trying to present a very sanitised version of a potentially complicated situation? I'd have said that a girl who grew up an only child in a matriarchal household with an absent and then dead hero-father she never knew might have had difficulties dealing with any new father-figure, far less one who escaped the situation that killed her own father... And I imagine old Mrs Trelawney must have at the very least had ambivalent feelings about her daughter-in-law remarrying, especially when she and Doris had lived together solo for so long! It could be seen as an unusually complicated situation, rather than some kind of perfect antidoate to Jessica's...

Author:  Emma A [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Some very interesting comments from the previous posters. I really felt for Jessica in her situation, and did think that her mother and stepfather could have made greater efforts to reassure her. Sending her off to boarding school abroad was the completely wrong thing to do, and must have confirmed Jessica's view that her mother didn't care for her at all. Mary-Lou comes out of it very well, by refusing to take 'no' for an answer, but then she was helped by having Jessica's back-story told to her (which you could be kind and think of as Joey's giving her something to do to keep her mind off her Gran's recent death). It makes one wonder what she might have done if Joey hadn't been primed with the relevant information, and passed it on.

I do like the tobogganing accident, though it suffers from lack of medical plausibility, and the fact that it's Jack who deals with Emerence five days after the accident. Surely Matron or Miss Annersley could have dealt with her - and Margot - to find out what had happened? As it is, it seems from the narrative that no-one apart from Margot and Emerence knew what had caused the accident for days. I do think, along with Alison, that Jack or Joey should have reassured Margot sooner - but then, that follows from everyone being too concerned about Mary-Lou to worry about Emerence or Margot.

The step-sisters relationship between Mary-Lou and Verity doesn't seem to be portrayed in that light. Although Mary-Lou is very keen to call Verity her sister-by-marriage, the dynamic between the two is more like strong dominant character with much weaker friend (such a staple of the GO genre), and not like a sisterly dynamic. I find their friendship slightly unreal, actually, and I think EBD accentuates this by placing so much stress on their closeness. It seems to me that Mary-Lou actually has a closer friendship with Vi and Joey than with Verity (at least after Clem leaves school), and this is why she has to "protest too much", because secretly she feels that Verity isn't her sister.

Author:  Cel [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Emma A wrote:
The step-sisters relationship between Mary-Lou and Verity doesn't seem to be portrayed in that light. Although Mary-Lou is very keen to call Verity her sister-by-marriage, the dynamic between the two is more like strong dominant character with much weaker friend (such a staple of the GO genre), and not like a sisterly dynamic. I find their friendship slightly unreal, actually, and I think EBD accentuates this by placing so much stress on their closeness. It seems to me that Mary-Lou actually has a closer friendship with Vi and Joey than with Verity (at least after Clem leaves school), and this is why she has to "protest too much", because secretly she feels that Verity isn't her sister.


I agree that the friendship between these two never really rings true - it's so very unequal, it's hard to imagine (for example) Mary-Lou turning to Verity for advice on a problem or for comfort if she was upset. I suppose there are some friendships which are really like this, but they tend to involve the dominant person thriving on the power they have over the weaker one. Mary-Lou isn't the type to get a kick out of that, so it's hard to see what she gets out of the relationship.

Maybe that makes them more like genuine sisters, though? You could believe in them as slightly bossy Elder Sister and moony Younger Sister. But since the friendship came long before their parents got married, we're clearly supposed to think of that as the basis for their relationship, and it always seems a bit forced.

Author:  Sunglass [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

If I set aside for a minute my own tempting theory that Verity's later helpless behaviour is 'learned' from Doris, could it be that - given that EBD sees 'normal' sister relationships as elder 'mothering' younger - having decided to make Verity and Mary-Lou stepsisters, she has to 'weaken' one of them into being the 'younger' for her vision of proper sisterly relations to function?

All her 'real' sisterly relationships, whether biological or adoptive work off this model - Gillian and Joyce Linton, Margia and Amy Stevens, Madge and young Joey, Joey and young Robin, Jessica Wayne and Rosamund after Mary-Lou's intervention. Even within the triplets, EBD makes one an 'eldest' mother-figure, and another a 'problem' youngest - it's not clear how the more 'equal' Len and Con would relate to one another without the 'younger' Margot in the equation. EBD simply doesn't get, or doesn't even try to write, sister relationships that don't fit this mould, as with Jack and Anne Lambert (younger sister more dominant than 'colourless' elder, who is barely mentioned) or the three Pertwees (simply not particularly close until their mother's illness, when Yseult becomes a 'proper' mothering elder sister.)

I think, given this quite hierarchical view of sister relationships, EBD would have found it very difficult to convert a relatively 'equal' pair of friends into what she thinks of as a proper sister relationship...? If Verity had remained strong and stubborn, combined with her dazzlingly silvery looks, would Mary-Lou have had some competition on her hands from her sister-by-marriage?

ETA I know we're often told that while Mary-Lou looks after Verity, Verity also acts as a brake on Mary-Lou's wilder ideas, but we never see this in action even once, and it's a bit difficult to believe in someone who's presented as so wishy-washy managing to talk Mary-Lou out of anything!

Author:  Catherine [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I did feel sorry for Jessica too - prior to Mary-Lou arriving, everyone seems to have left her to herself, more or less rolling their eyes at her attitude, rather than being kind and trying to help.

I think Jessica would only have taken any talk from an adult as interference but I think it would have been good to see someone suggesting that Jessica should write to her mother and explain her feelings, rather than bottle them all up and then eventually go home a different person. I didn't feel that Miss Annersley was too pleased to find out that Mary-Lou had been told about Jessica's background but then she didn't seem to have made any effort to help Jessica so if Joey hadn't interfered, the chances are Jessica would just have been left to herself until she got herself into endless rows. I felt Miss Annersley had an opportunity to help Jessica after the row with Mr Denny but packed her off to bed instead.

I don't think we saw enough of Mary-Lou and Verity by themselves (as opposed to with other members of the gang) to really get an idea of the relationship between the two of them. Verity is said to act as a break on Mary-Lou's wilder ideas but we never get to see that - just Mary-Lou protecting (bossing?) her.

Author:  Josette [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Haven't really thought about this before, but I suppose Verity's original character could perhaps be explained by her having had to be emotionally self-sufficient for a long time - I can't remember offhand how long she's been living with the lawyer and his family, but she doesn't seem to have had a "family" relationship with them, and prior to that she was with her grandparents, who sound very Victorian and fairly rigid in their views and probably not very affectionate.

Then, when she quite abruptly finds herself with a gentle, affectionate stepmother, an overly-helpful stepsister and a substitute grandmother, all on top of having her father back as well, perhaps she becomes so helpless as a response to this - out of relief, or at some subconscious level wanting to make sure she doesn't end up alone again

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I'm inclined to agree with you, Josette. It isn't that Verity wasn't a mooner before, necessarily, but that she was used to bottling her feelings up because she had no-one to share them with and so seemed very independent. Plus OOAO seems to have that effect on people; I know that I, at least, would be just a little bit tempted to sit back and let someone get on with it if they offered to do all of my morning dormitory work for me!

I'm another who feels sorry for Jessica, though I do think that her parents acted believeably. It reminds me of the MT storyline with Sally - and to a lesser extent the Joan story line in 'Naughtiest Girl', though her mother was just horrible IMHO - in that because of an illness with a sibling the other girl is sent away and her parents don't think that she might resent this. In some ways it seems that the thrill of going to boarding school and being able to have a good education is supposed to make up for not being with your family?

Author:  Nightwing [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Gran's death makes me feel very sorry for Mary-Lou. We're told right from Three Go that she has a more dominant personality than her mother - at age ten!!! - and that without Gran she would walk all over her. So Mary-Lou has a weak-willed mother, a step-sister who can be stubborn but who is quite happy to let ML do her thinking for her most of the time, and an invalid step-father. I know Mary-Lou gets a lot of flack for being so awfully bossy, but in that situation it seems that she's the one in her family who has to take her grandmother's role as family matriarch - she never had a chance to be responsibility-free, from then on.

I'm not sure how I feel about Joey involving Mary-Lou in Jessica's problems. I do think it's safe to say that Mary-Lou would have done her best to help whether or not Joey had stuck her nose in, and perhaps it's for the better that she got to do it knowing what the actual problem was. I do feel desperately sorry for Jessica; I'll never understand why parents in GO books seem to think the way of dealing with an unhappy child is to send her away from home!

Author:  clair [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Mary-Lou is far from my favourite character but I do feel for her in this book. Losing her grandmother must have been awful, all the way through we see the real closeness between the two of them. I actually agree with Verity being sent back for the start of term, she's not lost her own gran and M-L needed time for herself. To me it's quite telling that not even her mother had realised how much M-L was grieving. M-L was the sort not to let her own feelings show but also the CS didn't seem to allow grieving. In that sense this is the book that I find M-L most human!
I find the way that Jessica is treated appalling - I'm only surprised she behaves as well as she does! It's understandable that all her resentment is directed at Rosamund as she's trying not to believe that her mother could push her aside so easily!

Author:  fraujackson [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

clair wrote:
I actually agree with Verity being sent back for the start of term, she's not lost her own gran and M-L needed time for herself.


That's a really good point. If Verity *had* been allowed to stay at home, Mary Lou would only have ended up having to support her/ cope for her, and this would have had a negative effect on her own ability to come to terms with Gran's death. I also agree with Josette's suggestion that Verity perhaps consciously becomes a weak character: is she stubbornly weak, even ? (Can't think of any textual evidence at the moment...)

Can really empathise with ML in this book - was in an almost-identical family situation myself, and when my Grandma died it was ghastly - and I was twice ML's age at the time :(

On another point: could anyone quote me the bit(s) where they decide to force feed Jessica ? I haven't got my copy here and am a bit hazy on the details. Thanks !

Author:  Alison H [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Sorry, I probably made it sound worse than it was :oops: . I think Matey just said that if Jessica wouldn't eat then she'd force the food down her, in the same sort of way that she'd've told someone that if they swore she'd wash their mouth out with soap and water. Or maybe it was in a drabble and I got confused: I do that sometimes :oops: . They certainly weren't very sympathetic, though!

On a different note, was there supposed to be some deep and meaningful significance in Verity-Anne dropping the "Anne" bit of her name at this point? Did she think it'd make her sound more grown-up, along the lines of Princess Margaret refusing to be known as "Margaret Rose" any more? I'm never quite sure what the point of it is.

Author:  Abi [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

fraujackson wrote:
On another point: could anyone quote me the bit(s) where they decide to force feed Jessica ? I haven't got my copy here and am a bit hazy on the details. Thanks !


The only part about eating that I can find is right at the beginning, where Jessica has refused to come in to one Kaffee-und-Kuchen (I can't find any suggestion that it's a habitual thing. One prefect goes to try to find her. She comes back furious, then:

Quote:
Kaffee und Kuchen was nearly over when the door opened again and Matron herself appeared, followed by a subdued-looking Jessica who went meekly to her seat.

...All she said now was "Here is Jessica Wayne, Jean. Please see that she eats a proper meal. If she does not, kindly send for me."

...For the rest of the meal, no-one talked very much. Jean did her best to obey Matron, and, perhaps, that lady had made some sort of impression on the new girl, for Jessica had choked down two bread twists and jam and drunk a full cup of the milky coffee by the time Betsy Lucy stood up and called for Grace.


After that, as far as I can tell, she eats properly.

I agree with the people who say ML and Verity don't seem to have a normal sisterly relationship - I expect that if they hadn't become step-sisters they'd have been part of the Gang but not particular friends. Actually, Verity doesn't seem to have a special friend at all that I can think of. Maybe she thinks more of Mary-Lou than ML think of her?

Author:  Sunglass [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

fraujackson wrote:
clair wrote:
I actually agree with Verity being sent back for the start of term, she's not lost her own gran and M-L needed time for herself.


That's a really good point. If Verity *had* been allowed to stay at home, Mary Lou would only have ended up having to support her/ cope for her, and this would have had a negative effect on her own ability to come to terms with Gran's death.


But if Verity was simply not as hard hit by Gran's death, she wouldn't be likely to have needed help coping with it, and might actually have been able, along with her father, to support Mary-Lou and Doris in their grief. I can't see her being pole-axed by grief for Gran on her own behalf, and maybe - if it wasn't for the fact that EBD is by this point determined to characterise Verity as weak and moony - it might have been an opportunity for her to be the strong one for a change...? Only I don't think EBD could have countenanced strong, dominant Mary-Lou needing a shoulder to cry on, and finding it in Verity!

I know EBD would never have written it, because she's stuck herself with Mary-Lou as Practically Perfect, but it would have been interesting to see her revealing any slightly complicated or ambivalent feelings about Verity as stepsister when she's tackling Jessica's resentment of Rosamund. I know she's absorbed all of Gran's little parables about Jesus and the apostles and needing to share love and friendship and repeats them to Jessica, but surely even the most Technicolouredly Idealised CS Girl could admit privately to having found it difficult to share her mother with a new stepsister who increasingly comes to resemble that mother? Why does she take on the daily task of getting Verity through the day without a dozen tickings-off for lateness and undone chores - would she have done it anyway if Verity wasn't her stepsister? Or, having grown up without a father, only a heroic absent ideal, it must have been strange suddenly having a new real father-figure really there all the time?

Author:  Elle [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Alison H wrote:
On a different note, was there supposed to be some deep and meaningful significance in Verity-Anne dropping the "Anne" bit of her name at this point? Did she think it'd make her sound more grown-up, along the lines of Princess Margaret refusing to be known as "Margaret Rose" any more? I'm never quite sure what the point of it is.


It is explained in the hard back, something to do with her growing up. I will try to remember to look it up when I get home this evening if nobody beats me to it!

Author:  hac61 [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Sunglass wrote:
Or, having grown up without a father, only a heroic absent ideal, it must have been strange suddenly having a new real father-figure really there all the time?


Strange but wonderful, I would think.

My father died when I was 6 months old and by the time I was 10 I was running the household. I would have loved a father to come in and take all the responsibility off my shoulders. (I had several candidates but wasn't able to persuade my mother to any of them :) )

Author:  mohini [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I liked Mary Lou in this book as she comes across a believable character, feeling sorry for her grandmother but not grieving as she knew her grandmother would not like it. I liked the way she helped Jessica. The part always gives me goosebumps - where Jessica opens up and Mary Lou helps her.
Maybe Joey asked Mary Lou to help Jessica with an intention of diverting her mind or she would have grieved silently for her Grandmother. If one thinks , just imagine how alone she must have felt. Her mother clinging to her, Verity not been able to understand the depth of her loss. Going back to school and facing a new problem would have restored her sanity.
Jessica's feeling seem normal. Having lived with her mother, it was natural to feel jealous of her step sister. Though her mother should have explained it to her.
About Mary Lou's and Verity's friendship, I remember rereading the books to see where it was mentioned. Only because they have double names does not mean they become friends. Mary Lou was more friendly with Vi Lucy and Clem.There would have been little rivalry between Mary Lou and Verity after marriage of their parents as Verity was already spending Holidays with Mary Lou as was Clem and Tom(if I am not wrong) So they were used to it.
EDB in my opinion cannot give a good description of Families. The parents are either the best like Joey or colourless like Doris.There are very few normal families in the CB books.While on topic of parents, I really get irritated when Enid Blyton always writes specially in Famous Five books the mothers either George's or Anne's saying " I do not want you under my feet. So you are going away to live somewhere" Same with Mrs Mannering of Philip and Dinah and Lucy Anne and Jack.She get headache every time the kids are at home.
Hey come on! The kids are in boarding school for months and come home for holidays. How can anyone say something like this to their own kid?
As a child it gave me quite wrong ideas about English parents.

Author:  jmc [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

This was one of my favourite books and I think it was one of the ones that portrayed Mary-Lou in a more sympathetic light. She was shown having some difficulties in this book such as her gran dying, getting into trouble over climbing on the cupboard ad well as her reluctance to help Jessica in the beginning.

The step sister relationship between Jessica and Rosamund was I believe more realistically portrayed than the relationship between Mary-Lou and Verity which was a relationship that I never found rang quite true. Yes they were friends beforehand which would had made some sort of difference but Verity underwent such a big personality change. She was a boarder right from her first days at the school and never had any problems at that time and she was such a firm and stubborn person. It seemed liked she changed to make Mary-Lou look like a better person for helping her and like others have stated I never saw any evidence that Verity helped make a difference to Mary-Lou's wilder ideas.

As a step myself I am lucky in that I have a very good relationship with all of my family but it is not the same for my sister. She does not get on that well with my step-sister or step-mother. We lived with my mother and as my stepsister lived with my father and her mother she was quite jealous of the time he got to spend with her. She used to get on well with my step-sister but as they have grown up that has changed, especially now that they both have children and she feels that my father cares more for my step-sisters children than hers. The fact of the matter is that my father sees my step-sister;s children more as they live close and my step-mother babysits them most days. So what I am trying to say is that I see Jessica and Rosamund's relationship as being more realistic based on my own experiences.

BTW I never thought Joey should have told Mary-Lou all those private details about Jessica. Especially as she was mourning her gran even though she had been told not to.

Author:  Mel [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

As ML is a gregarious girl she might have liked the opening up of her family. However much she loved them, it must have been stifling living with strict Gran and wimpish Doris and with Jo as role moddel and mentor, the larger the family the better, which included Clem and Tony. I don't like the fact that Jo is the one to wait at ML's bedside taking her mother's place (again - she has to break the news of her father's death). I do not belive for one moment that she would be there for five days without sleep and without going to see Margot. Jo looks 'all eyes' nightly at 9.30p.m. The odd thing is that EBD does this sort of thing so that we will love Joey even more, whereas I am always irritated that she is yet again the centre of attention.

Author:  emma t [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

It's been a while since I read this book. I am another who feeels sorry for Jessica, but at the same time I do think she is being selfish, but it is not entirely her fault. Having had her mother to herself for quite some time; to be suddenly faced with an invalid step-sister who needs far more attention that she does, who can blame her for feeling a little resentment? And then to be sent to boarding school?Admittedly; it's not a good trait to have, but you can see why she does not like Rosamund at first, even if she has never done anything to her. Mary-Lou's influence on her is a good thing; though I agree that she should never have been told all about the circumstances; no matter how much she wanted to help. It sometimes seems to me that M-L is asked in a non-commital way to find out what is wrong, rather than having an adult 'but in' on them, as they do not wish to. An unwritten law, I think it is. M-L having been brought up almost treated like an adult will also compensate, for she sees problems sooner than others; but alot is expected of her to shine in this and she has to keep up the standard.

As for Joey and Jack not going to Margot and putting M-L first, I was always set against this. Margot it their own daughter; in the san herself and feeling miserable about all that has happened with the accident. I have never been able to understand why Joey did this - it just seems very strange, even if M-L's family are not there to be by her bed-side. What about one of the teaching staff taking it in turns? After all, the accident occured in school time; and although Joey wishes to be there for any girl who needs her, clearly this one time it ought to have been Margot first before M-L even if she was not in any danger.

I vaguely recall Jack going to see Margot when M-L awoke and having a talk with her?

Author:  Alison H [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

The Maynards and the Trelawney-Careys had been neighbours in Howells village and in the '40s and '50s most people were very friendly with their neighbours, so Joey would have been close to Mary-Lou (and how convenient that Doris just happened to have a bad attack of flu at the time, so that EBD let Joey take over!) but she certainly didn't need to be there round the clock. Frau Mensch and Frau Marani took turns at sitting with Joey after the Tiernjoch incident, to give Madge a break.

Author:  Sunglass [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Does it come back to EBD trying to show that Joey isn't narrowly familial about favouring her own biological children, which EBD appears to think is a bad thing? There's that bit in Janie Steps In where Rosamund and Nigel Willoughby say of Janie:

Quote:
'For one thing, however much she may be tied up with her own family, she always seems to be able to take in a dozen other folk at the same time. I can’t do that. To me, you and the children make up the world, and everyone else – even Mother and Dad and the rest – have to come after. I love Nan dearly; but – well, there’s a little circle that hold you and Toby and Blossom and the rest have to remain outside.’ Rosamund suddenly looked forlorn. ‘It isn’t awfully nice of me, but there it is.’

‘And there it always was’ her husband told her. ‘...It’s simply part of your make-up. You wouldn’t be you without it. Besides, come to that, I like our own little crowd best. If you’re not nice to know, neither am I. You and I, my dear, are clannish. Janie and Julian aren’t.


It sometimes seems that EBD is bending over backwards to show Joey not being 'clannish' or prioritising her own children over others, even when it involves her arguably neglecting her own offspring at times, as with Margot in Mary-Lou, or when she guilt-trips the reluctant triplets into having a total stranger as well as the Richardsons with them at the Tiernsee in A Future, or takes the triplets out of school to cover childcare while she goes to help Mary-Lou close up Carn Beg. I mean, it's all very well for Joey to feel able to mother outside her family - good for her, in fact - but I don't think EBD always takes into account that it might involve short-changing her own large family.

Which I suppose brings us neatly back to the case of Jessica and Rosamund. Aside from Mary-Lou's one astute comment about it being insensitive of Jessica's mother and stepfather to have sent her abroad to school, EBD clearly doesn't expect us to criticise Jessica's mother for giving almost all her attention to her invalid new stepdaughter, despite Jessica feeling neglected - it's seen as understandable, even the right thing to do. Jessica is the one who has to learn to deal gracefully with her mother prioritising someone who isn't her biological offspring, just as we often see the triplets' needs being compromised for someone else, be it Mary-Lou or Melanie Lucas, or just the continual presence of wards and longterm guests at Freudesheim.

Author:  sealpuppy [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

hac61 wrote:
Sunglass wrote:
Or, having grown up without a father, only a heroic absent ideal, it must have been strange suddenly having a new real father-figure really there all the time?


Strange but wonderful, I would think.


Not in my book, it wouldn't have been. :shock: My parents split up when I was born (stupid wartime marriage) and I was brought up by my mother and maternal grandmother, bit like M-L. I would have been appalled at the introduction of a father-figure! Sounds selfish now, and probably was, but it was a very strong feeling and I'm guessing Mary-Lou, so close to her father's mother, would have felt the difficulties for Mrs Trelawny snr. And of course there's the survivor thing, why should Verity's father have lived and not M-L's?

The whole thing seems to be EBD trying to present a perfect step relationship to rewrite her own family history and keep the now perfect M-L in line with the Blessed Joey. It's such a pity because neither of them starts off like that and some fireworks would have been interesting.

Mind you, Mary-Lou doesn't marry, does she? OK she's only early 20s by the end of the series but for a good Chalet girl that's ancient. Only bad girls like Grizel are old maids in EBD land. Maybe M-L kicked at her creator's subconscious and refused to succumb to a Joey-style perfect marriage because she had serious issues about marriage anyway?

Author:  Carrie A [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

this has been a fascinating thread so far........ I too remember being a bit miffed that Jessica wasn't allowed to be grumpy about her family situation. After all she was only 14 or so and weren't we all the centres of our own universe at that age? As for Verity and Mary-Lou - doesn't ML say to Joey, at the time of her father's death, that she and Veryity are 'friendish'. I've always taken that to mean that no one else could be bothered with Verity because she was so aloof and self-contained and didn't want to be 'modern' so ML felt that she had to be a friend to her. Once Verity's father reappeared on the scene, he seemed to persuade her to be more like the other girls. One can imagine him saying "more like that Mary-Lou". So maybe his reasons for marrying Doris were to try and provide a family/home for Verity. After all it would have been difficult for him to do so alone.

Jumping to the Margot/Emerence thing - I have always liked the way that Jack tells Margot to keep on being friendly with Emerence as it is only Margot herself who gets herself into trouble. As a teacher - the times I have heard parents tell me that their little darling would be an angel if only they didn't spend time/were friends with/sat next to 'little Johnny' or whoever! :lol:

Author:  Alison H [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Sorry if this is totally off the point because none of them feature in Mary-Lou, but I think the Christys are the most interesting step-family in the series - Cdr and Mrs Christy each have a daughter from their previous marriages, and have a daughter and a son together, and everyone seems to get on really well. Dickie and Cherry insist that they are real sisters, and Dickie is her half-brother's godmother. Mrs Christy seems to be very Doris-like, though - Dickie seems to be the one who really runs the house.

I've always suspected that the reason Mary-Lou was still single at the end of the series was that EBD liked doctors to be at least 30 before they married, and was "saving" Mary-Lou for either Rix or David :wink: . Although I'm very glad that, unlike Len, she didn't end up tied to the Gornetz Platz before she'd even left school.

It must have been pretty awkward for Gran when Doris remarried, and probably also quite weird for Cdr Carey to have his wife's first husband's mother living with them.

I like to think that Doris's second marriage was happy: she deserved it.

Author:  Nightwing [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Alison H wrote:
I like to think that Doris's second marriage was happy: she deserved it.


I agree - I can't see it being a hugely romantic marriage, though! I suspect they bonded over their mutual losses, and had a gentle sort of relationship where they both took care of each other. It must have been hard for Gran, though, to see her son essentially replaced by the man that managed to survive him :( .

On the subject of the Christys - you can definitely see why Dickie and Cherry get along so well. Dickie is mature enough to act the big sister to Cherry, rather than resenting her, and Cherry is at the age where she adores having a big sister. I did always think Cherry seemed to have a bit of resentment for Gaynor, though - perhaps because she took her place as the youngest, and because she's perfectly healthy?

Author:  Sunglass [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Slightly OT again, but was just reading Goes To It and noticed Ernest Howell's account of his stepmother and half-sister:

Quote:
‘When all of us but my young sister Nesta were grown-up, our father married again—our own mother died when Nesta was born—a very pretty girl. They had one little girl, Guenever, or Gwensi, as we call her. Before that, our stepmother brought Nesta through a bad go of pneumonia, and saved her life. Nesta is a good deal younger than the rest of us, and we’d always made a pet of her, so you can guess our feelings towards Gwen—our step-mother. When she and my father were drowned, yachting, when Gwensi was only four, we all made up our minds that we’d do by her baby as she’d done by ours.


Reading it with this discussion in mind, does it seem a bit odd to anyone else that he needs to 'explain' his father's remarriage by saying his stepmother was 'a very pretty girl'? Or that he has to give a reason for he and his siblings' warm feelings towards their stepmother by having her save their biological sister's life - why is it not enough that they just liked her because she was nice/made their father and little sister happy?

Also, why is all this back story even necessary to explain why Ernest is looking after Gwensi - is it really so odd (especially in the CS world of wards and guardians and non-biological families) for someone to be the day-to-day guardian of his half-sister? Gwensi is, after all, his father's daughter - it sounds a bit weird to me that Ernest describes her as his stepmother's baby, as if she isn't also his half-sister!

Is EBD a bit vague on the distinctions between stepsister and half-sister here, or is it more that at the time it would have been expected for his stepmother's family to claim Gwensi? Or is it just another instance of EBD having some issues about step-families...?

Author:  sealpuppy [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

EBD gets the half-/step- relationship wrong every time! And it mostly seems to have negative connotations for her. Dr Frasier Crane would have had a field day with her! :D

Author:  JB [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Quote:
EBD gets the half-/step- relationship wrong every time! And it mostly seems to have negative connotations for her. Dr Frasier Crane would have had a field day with her!


What intrigues me is that there is the one instance where she gets it right - Stepsisters for Lorna - it's there in the title. Pressure from publishers perhaps?

And then there's the painstaking detail she has OOAML go into as to why she and Verity aren't stepsisters. I long for someone to interrupt at that point and tell her that they are. :twisted:

Understandable, though, as to why a half sibling has negative connotations for her. Not so sure about step relationships.

Author:  RubyGates [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Sunglass, having just read your post I have to say no, Ernest Howell's speech doesn't seem odd at all to me. It never has done and never will do. I don't mean to sound rude but it seems like you are reading an awful lot too much into a simple, caring statement which reveals a little bit of Howells family history.

Author:  Emma A [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I agree with RubyGates that Ernest's statement is a kind and loving one, but I think Sunglass is also right in wondering why he feels the need to explain. He's a good deal older than Gwensi, but has (IIRC) always been around, and so it would be quite natural for him to feel a good deal of affection for her - as Dick does for the Robin, for example, or Jem does for Joey.

I suppose EBD likes to put in these little snippets of family history so that we feel we know something about Gwensi before she appears, and she feels that a natural way to do this is through dialogue, even if it's possibly not what one would normally say. She does this with Mrs Bain's comeuppance which Joey tells to the Christys, for example.

Author:  JB [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I think EBD does like to include complex family backgrounds, even when they're not essential to the plot. It doesn't make any difference here that Gwensi is Ernest's half sister, and we never meet the rest of the family.

Francesca Atherton in the La Rochelle books is Mrs Atherton's youngest sister (poss half sister even) but is brought up as her eldest daughter. Again, there's no impact on the plot but it is something which is explained in all the books where she appears.

Francie Wilford is another one with a complex family which is explained at the beginning of Ruey, after she's been a pupil at the CS for a few years. Here, too, I feel the story would have worked as well if Francie had simply been jealous of Ruey because she wanted to be Margot's friend, without all the back story.

Author:  Sunglass [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

RubyGates wrote:
Sunglass, having just read your post I have to say no, Ernest Howell's speech doesn't seem odd at all to me. It never has done and never will do. I don't mean to sound rude but it seems like you are reading an awful lot too much into a simple, caring statement which reveals a little bit of Howells family history.


I think you must have misunderstood my comment, Ruby. As Emma A said, all I find worthy of note is why EBD feels the need to explain at all what is, after all, a perfectly natural situation - that Ernest is guardian to his half-sister, the result of his father's second marriage. Two completely everyday situations, and surely not so unusual that he needs to tell a group of total strangers that he and his other siblings undertook to look after Gwensi because they were grateful their stepmother saved their sister's life? (What else were they going to do - send her to an orphanage, if the second Mrs Howells hadn't nursed Nesta back to health? :twisted: ) A orphaned four year old's older siblings are surely the obvious people to look after her, the way Madge and Dick look after the much younger Joey. And yet the only difference in the Bettany/Howells situations is that it's not a full-sibling relationship, so seems to require more explanation from EBD's point of view. Though I do agree that she loves the complex backstory - but I thought that one was relevant to the discussion of Mary-Lou because of the stepmother/half-sister relationship stuff.

Sorry, all, end of OT.

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

To get back to Mary-Lou, would people agree that this is the book in which she becomes "a champion butter-in"? We see her as a rather bumptious young girl (I meant that in a positive way, but couldn't think of a more positive-sounding adjective, sorry!) in the later British books, as the leader of the gang in Barbara, Kenya etc, and then from Mary-Lou on we see her as someone who "butts in" - with Jessica, Nina (to some extent), Joan, Naomi and Margot.

Sorry if that sounds like a criticism: it wasn't meant to be! Whilst she can get rather annoying, no-one else makes much effort to help some of those concerned. I do think there's a big change in this book, though, maybe linked in with her move from Middle to Senior.

Author:  Cel [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Alison H wrote:
To get back to Mary-Lou, would people agree that this is the book in which she becomes "a champion butter-in"?


Yes, I think that makes sense. It's also from this book that (for me) Mary-Lou becomes a thoroughly nice character again. I love her as a Junior/Junior Middle, but there's a period (around Kenya, say) where her all-powerful leadership and the dominance of the Gang becomes a bit too much. But I think she then becomes a really nice Senior, she's very kind and generally quite tactful as well - someone I would have loved to have around in a crisis when I was at school.

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I'd agree with that Alison! Though unlike you, I'd say that that was negative. If people want help then of course it's right to offer it - and good on OOAO for being able to do so - but people won't always! I think that if EBD hadn't been so determined to show OOAO in a positive light sometimes there could have been room for someone to be very cross at her unwarranted interference, which could have made for an interesting story - and might have endeared me to her a little more!

Author:  JB [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I think the change starts a little earlier. In Changes and Barbara, she comes across as more like the young Mary Lou (asking about flying to Switzerland and seen as a bit of a nuisance when she falls downstairs). Then, out of the blue, in Does it Again, she's become Head of the Middle School and good friends with Betsy Lucy who's a few years older than her. In Kenya, she's "allowing" Jo Scott to be friends with the gang.

By Mary Lou, she seems softer and more mature, and IMO much less annoying than in the previous couple of books. I think she becomes annoying again later but, here, she's the one who notices there's something wrong with Jessica where the rest of the form have left her alone and it's Joey who asks ML to help Jessica, rather than ML "butting in" of her own accord.

Author:  Nightwing [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

JB wrote:
I think she becomes annoying again later but, here, she's the one who notices there's something wrong with Jessica where the rest of the form have left her alone and it's Joey who asks ML to help Jessica, rather than ML "butting in" of her own accord.


I think part of the reason that she becomes annoying is the same reason that people find Joey annoying in the later books - she keep getting brought back in to solve problems even if there are other things EBD could have done to solve them. It's particularly bad once OOAO has actually left school, and left the Platz, because (as in Challenge) she pretty much randomly turns up in a snowstorm and saves a girl's life. It's nice that it wasn't a doctor for a change, but really!

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

JB wrote:
By Mary Lou, she seems softer and more mature, and IMO much less annoying than in the previous couple of books. I think she becomes annoying again later but, here, she's the one who notices there's something wrong with Jessica where the rest of the form have left her alone and it's Joey who asks ML to help Jessica, rather than ML "butting in" of her own accord.


I never remember whether Genius is before or after Mary-Lou, but there are a couple of interventions in relation to Nina in it that seem transitional between 'bumptious' Mary-Lou and 'mature' Mary-Lou. One of them is Mary-Lou noticing Nina looking distressed over the letter that tells her Alix has TB and asking her about it, which is kind and well-meaning, but it's a bit of a leap from showing friendly concern to what Mary-Lou then does, which is to immediately assume Nina needs an in-depth consultation about her cousin's illness and getting permission for them to miss prep so Nina can fill her in. That feels a bit officious to me, as though she's an MP with a surgery, or something, especially when it's 'private' bad news, rather than a school issue.

The other one is when Mary-Lou finds a draft of a song written by Nina on the form-room floor and submits it to the school mag without telling her. Again, completely well-meaning, and Nina is actually pleased, but it strikes me as Mary-Lou over-stepping the mark a bit - a lot of people simply wouldn't have been pleased to have had someone read something that wasn't intended for their eyes, far less publish it in the Chaletian! It just strikes me that, especially with someone highly-strung and sensitive like Nina, that both these well-meant attempts to help could have gone down rather badly, as nosy and intrusive. In them I can still see elements of the 'bumptious' younger Mary-Lou who doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut...

Author:  JS [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Quote:
EBD gets the half-/step- relationship wrong every time! And it mostly seems to have negative connotations for her


I had a problem recently when recommending a 'first' chalet book to a friend's step-daughter - I warned her that stepmothers get a really bad press in School At (Mrs Cochrane) and even in Princess (which I recommeded in the end) we're told that Elisaveta had 'no need to fear' a stepmother because her father didn't want to remarry.

In comparison to that, Jessica's mother (step-mother to Rosamund); Francie's stepmother (and other complicated relations - can't recall exactly) ) and the various other relationships we hear about are a huge step forward as they love and care for their step-children.

Was it maybe that in the early books, EBD was going with the fairytale trope of 'Stepmothers are evil' but that she recognised more of the subtleties when she matured as a writer?

Also, been ages since I read it, but doesn't Antonia Forest make quite a realistic job of it in Ready-made Family?

Author:  Cosimo's Jackal [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

JS wrote:
Also, been ages since I read it, but doesn't Antonia Forest make quite a realistic job of it in Ready-made Family?


To an extent, only AF never really gives any idea why a scholarly, good-looking Oxford undergraduate drops out to marry a bad-tempered, much older widower with three children, who doesn't seem to treat her particularly well, who is disliked by her entire family and who hits her (admittedly annoying) brother across the face with a riding crop! In terms of realism, though, you certainly get some excruciatingly awkward scenes of Karen trying to mother the Dodd children...

I think that's very true, though, that EBD starts off with the second Mrs Cochrane being almost a cackling fairytale villain stepmother, but that her stepmothers become much more humane and real as the series continues.

It just occurred to me, reading this thread , and given EBD's very black view of stepmothers in the early books - would Joey's relationship to the Robin have been any different if Madge had married Ted Humphries, making Joey kind of Robin's step-sister, rather than more loosely her adoptive sister?

Author:  Billie [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

I'm rereading this book at the moment and have noticed two cases of "Head girl? Me? Surely not!" in the same page! (In this case "Dormitory prefect? Me?" and "Form prefect? Me?" which firstly shouldn't have been too unexpected as she had formerly been Head of the Middles, but is rather repetitive (especially as she does the same in two consecutive chapters in Coming of Age when she gets to be head girl and gets the Mary-Lou Prize For Being Mary-Lou. (I can't remember the exact title.) No one else gets the chance!

I think she handles Jessica quite well, and is kind rather than interfering, but it's the beginning of her new career as Adult Joey Mk II.

Author:  JB [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

JS wrote:
Also, been ages since I read it, but doesn't Antonia Forest make quite a realistic job of it in Ready-made Family?


I like the glimpses we see of Dodd family life once Karen and Edwin have moved into the cottage, at the beginning of Cricket Term and during Run Away Home, when we see Karen adapting to being the children's stepmother. I think that in Ready Made Family, it hasn't really occurred to her how to set about this - or even perhaps that she will need to do this as she is focused on Edwin (and, yes, not the most explicable of relationships).

Author:  Loryat [ Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Family- Mary Lou at the Chalet School

Cosimo's Jackal wrote:
The other one is when Mary-Lou finds a draft of a song written by Nina on the form-room floor and submits it to the school mag without telling her. Again, completely well-meaning, and Nina is actually pleased, but it strikes me as Mary-Lou over-stepping the mark a bit - a lot of people simply wouldn't have been pleased to have had someone read something that wasn't intended for their eyes, far less publish it in the Chaletian! It just strikes me that, especially with someone highly-strung and sensitive like Nina, that both these well-meant attempts to help could have gone down rather badly, as nosy and intrusive. In them I can still see elements of the 'bumptious' younger Mary-Lou who doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut...

To be fair to ML, though, at that point she is nervous as to how Nina will react. So maybe it was an instance of ML finding the manuscript (is that the right word?), impulsively handing it in, then afterwards wondering anxiously if she's done the right thing, but unable to do anything about it?

I like ML in this book. She's very kind to Jessica and I like it when she sticks up for her after she shouts at Plato. But I've never been able to accept the tobogganing accident. Surely since ML actually runs towards Emerence, she actually brings the accident upon herself? Is there any need for her to do that? Or is she just being an idiot? Maybe it makes more sense in hb?

I like the Margot/Jack scene. I can see why EBD chose to put it after ML wakes up, as to have it the other way round might have spoiled the tension (though, since the wake up chapter is called 'The School Goes to Bed Happily', that gives it away a bit!). But it would have been better if EBD had mentioned that Jack had gone down while ML was still unconscious, considering he has umpteen doctors to watch ML while he does it. I think, particularly at this stage, EBD simply didn't think of things like that, which is why a lot of her books make people look heartless or selfish. She was set on getting her stories down and it seems that she rarely read them over to see if they made any sense. :D

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