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Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6253
Author:  Lottie [ Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
To quote the blurb from the book:
Quote:
Left at home with her little sister while her parents are in attendance on the King and Queen at Oxford, Elizabeth Felthwaite longs to take part in the struggle against the Roundheads. Her opportunity speedily comes. Her brother arrives, bearing despatches to the King, but wounded and disabled. Elizabeth takes the despatches to Oxford, meeting many perils by the way, and the King sends her on another errand, this time to London. Here she is caught and imprisoned by a specially vindictive Roundhead. She escapes and is taken by Lionel Eccles, a Puritan officer about to return to the King’s side, to the house of Sir Timothy Mostyn.

Both Lionel and Elizabeth are, however, in deadly peril, he as a ‘recusant’, she as an escaped prisoner, and it is only after many narrow escapes that they finally sail for the New World, where we leave them in idyllic peace.

All lovers of the historical novel will appreciate this exciting, picturesque and romantic story.

There is some speculation that this book was intended as a novel for adults. It is the full version of the tale which is later told by Constance Felthwaite in Caroline the Second (1937). The story was also abridged as Cavalier Maid, and appeared in the Second Coronet Book for Girls in the 1950s. The book was first published in 1935 and reprinted by GGBP in 2006. You can read bits of it here.

What do you think about this book? Do you like the characters and the story? How much of it is just like any other EBD? There are references to parents expecting instant obedience, and concerns about illnesses arising from staying in wet clothes, which I think I might have seen elsewhere. What do you think of EBD’s use of seventeenth century English? Is it accurate, or has she made it up? Does it add to the portrayal of the period, or does it detract from the story for a modern reader? What do you think about Sir Timothy’s acceptance of Elizabeth and Lionel into his home? What about the ending of the book? Would you have liked to see what happened to Elizabeth and Lionel after the Restoration?


Next week – Jean of Storms
Author:  Sunglass [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
I haven't read this, so nothing useful or interesting to say (other than to be amused that from this summary, EBD's 17th century sounds like it has remarkable parallels with early 20thc Tyrol!).

But I just clicked through to the first page on Google Books, and was highly tickled (especially in view of the discussion as to whether Eustacia was stealing away to the library to read Lady Chatterley's Lover!) to find that a previous Lord Felthwaite had had a bowling-alley constructed in the grounds of Felthwaite Castle 'for the pleasuring of his young French wife.' :oops: :D

The beginning seems rather good, though - there's a genuine sense of threat, the beginnings of a decent plot, and within a few pages Elizabeth in true CS style is shimmying out of her petticoat to help a wounded man. This despite the all too familiar preponderance of weak-willed, easily-frightened 'serving wenches' and the two nobly-born sisters seeming to have a lot of trouble with their hair - they keep having to stop arming the castle against the Roundheads to shake their red-gold and jet-black lovelocks out of their faces....

ETA - And Elizabeth seems to do a lot of 'knee-throwing' of the baddies - sort of early jiu-jitsu, as done by several CS girls!
Author:  Tor [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
I haven't read it either, but I'd really love to know how EBD deals with the politics of the times.

I remember in one of the CS books, though I really can't remember which (possible a Tirol one?), EBD mentions that the girls, as is typical for their age, all had Cavalier sympathies and were rather anti-Cromwell. This comment always perplexed me. For one, most of my class at school were quite the opposite when (age of 13/14) we 'did' the English Civil war, and were big round-head fans (and South-East Essex isn't exactly a hot bed of left-wing politics). Secondly, the caveat of the sentence (paraphrased to 'typical of their age') always made me wonder if EBD meant they would come to see it differently when they were older (and, possibly, wiser?).

So, to make a long story short, did EBD give any sense that she might have approved of the round-heads cause, and was only writing about the Cavalier side of things because she thought that might appeal more to her audience (if indeed her audience was teenage girls)? Or was she totally pro-Cavalier?
Author:  Sunglass [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
The bit I just skimmed in Google Books has Puritans only as 'crop-ear'd rogues' and devious servant-types who are 'bitter fanatics', smash stained glass and church effigies and want to see their masters taken down a peg or two, while the royalists are 'gallant' and 'stirring' and defending the royalty of their king. But this is only the beginning - I suppose it's possible things might get a bit more nuanced later on in the book?
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Depends how you look at it - were the Roundheads the people who took up their swords to fight for England's ancient rights and liberties, or are they the rather miserable people who ended up banning mince pies and Christmas puddings; were the Cavaliers the people fighting in favour of the repression of the said rights and liberties or were they dashing and exciting and dramatic (I'm thinking Prince Rupert and later on the future Charles II, not Charles I himself, obviously!); and was Charles I a villain or a martyr (or possibly just a complete prat!)?

Sorry for the history essay :oops: .

I haven't read this one, but I've read EJO's Mistress Nancibel and wonder if there's a reason that they both chose to write about the same period of English history. EJO's characters seem very into that period of history, to the extent that (IIRC) the Abbey girls' club starts off as the Hampden Club after John Hampden. Maybe it was just a hangover from the Victorian "1066 and all that" view of history, with the whole history of the world being about the development of the "mother of all parliaments" :lol: .
Author:  JayB [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
I've just has a look at the beginning of this, and I think I probably would have loved it when I was twelve. The prose of the opening section is a bit too flowery, (and I too noticed the bit about 'pleasuring his young wife') but EBD does very quickly create a picture of the castle, the household, the two girls, and their situation. I'm liking it enough that I will probably go back and read some more.

I think 12-14 year old girls probably would be more likely to have Cavalier sympathies. The dresses were prettier, for one thing, and fighting for the King is more romantic than fighting for Parliament. EBD herself presumably knew that the issues were far more complex than that, as would anyone who had studied the period in any detail, but a romantic adventure story wouldn't really be the place to explore them. And it would be difficult to write characters who still supported Parliament even after the execution of Charles I, and still keep them sympathetic, within the limits of a book for girls.

I think the language is a fair enough representation of 17thc written English. Of course we don't know how people actually spoke. A little of it goes a long way in fictional dialogue, however (as does dialect), and it's the reason why historical fiction tends to become dated; historical novelists wouldn't write like that nowadays.
Author:  Tor [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Yes, the whole banning christmas malarky rather lost Cromwell our sympathies, but we were very indignant about Charles' behaviour regarding all that 'divine right of kings' nonsense (good call on the 'prat' front, Alison!) and quite sympathetic to the Parlimentarians.

How did she deal with the religious aspect? as I'd have thought she'd have been quite in favour of a free church/tolerance of non-conformists, in principle. Though obviously the anti-Catholic issue might have proved a deal breaker....! I see she provided a defecting round-head as a hero, so maybe she brought her ecuminical thinking in here.
Author:  Nightwing [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Was this period in history of particular interest to EBD, does anyone know? I seem to remember the backstory in Lost Staircase deals with the English Civil War as well...
Author:  Miss Di [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
I think the difference between the two sides was put most clearly in the important history text 1066 and all that which stated the Cavaliers were "Wrong but romantic", while the Roundheads were "Right but revolting"
Author:  Alison H [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Don't the girls seem very interested in the Jacobites in one of the books? Same sort of thing - Bonnie Prince Charlie would have made a useless king, and I'm not sure that James Edward would have made a very good one either, but they were both more "romantic" than George I or George II :lol: .
Author:  Sunglass [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Miss Di wrote:
I think the difference between the two sides was put most clearly in the important history text 1066 and all that which stated the Cavaliers were "Wrong but romantic", while the Roundheads were "Right but revolting"


Like many Irish people (including Deira O'Hagan's nurse!), my take is more 'Wrong but romantic' versus 'Right but revolting and killed up to a fifth of the Irish population (depending on which historian you read)'!

But I think Alison H and Miss Di are right in thinking that EBD is reflecting a general perception that schoolgirls, or the young in general, would have been attracted to the Cavaliers and Jacobites -royalist, romantic etc etc. Certainly there are other references in girls'/children's books which suggest other writers also took it for granted - though the only example I can specifically think of is The Swish of the Curtain, whose author was only in her own teens (I think!), whose acting children invent a Roundheads and Cavaliers play to perform, with the Cavalier family as the unquestioned heroes.
Author:  Tor [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Quote:
Like many Irish people (including Deira O'Hagan's nurse!), my take is more 'Wrong but romantic' versus 'Right but revolting and killed up to a fifth of the Irish population (depending on which historian you read)'!


Yes, they skipped this bit at my school! Well, at least didn't focus too much on the brutality. It was a mere footnote, fudged alongside Cromwell trying to protect England from re-invasion by throne claimants.
Author:  JS [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Do any of the historians on the board know how accurate the book actually is? I'm thinking of the various strictures in the CS where Jo is told (by Miss Stewart, first of all, I think) that she'd have to do lots of research if she wanted to write historical novels. Also, Con says in Prefects that it's important to learn about the history of a period before writing about it. Is Elizabeth the Gallant historically accurate, regardless of the interpretation put on the rightness or wrongness of each side?

Possibly the need for some actual hard research explains why, unlike JMB, EBD wrote just the one 'historical' novel.
Author:  Kate [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Sunglass wrote:
Miss Di wrote:
I think the difference between the two sides was put most clearly in the important history text 1066 and all that which stated the Cavaliers were "Wrong but romantic", while the Roundheads were "Right but revolting"


Like many Irish people (including Deira O'Hagan's nurse!), my take is more 'Wrong but romantic' versus 'Right but revolting and killed up to a fifth of the Irish population (depending on which historian you read)'!

Yup, I'm pretty much automatically on the Cavalier side for that reason - and so I was glad EBD was! I don't think I could have read something sympathetic to Cromwell.
Author:  JayB [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Quote:
Do any of the historians on the board know how accurate the book actually is?


The short extract available on Google Books doesn't really give enough to judge, and we are seeing events through the eyes of a sixteen year old girl, who wouldn't be aware of all the political/religious issues. Do we see things from any other perspective later in the book?

I don't think it's even stated what year the book is set, although it seems to be near the start of the Civil War.

From the little I've read, I think EBD had done her homework. I didn't notice anything that I think she had definitely got wrong. The entrenched attitudes of extremists on both sides, the breaking of church windows, ring true. And I give her credit for getting her characters' names exactly right for the time and location, which is more than many published authors manage (pet peeve). She also seems to be reasonably accurate in the details of day-to-day life, again from the short section available on Google.

If she had included more historical detail, no doubt most of her readers would have skipped over it, much as most of us skip the Swiss history supplied by Biddy et al on excursions in the later books!
Author:  Catrin [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
I'm afraid that the attempt at seventeenth century English made this virtually unreadable for me. I've been about half-way through for about a year now and it doesn't look like I'm going to get much further!
Author:  Miss Di [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Antonia Forest has an interesting look at children's opinions of the Cavalier vs Roundhead question in Peter's Room. Without going upstairs away from the heater ISTR Peter being stuffed in a waterbut (or locked in a games shed) over it. And of course the Marlows and Merricks have ancestors who were involved.
Author:  Cryst [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
Catrin wrote:
I'm afraid that the attempt at seventeenth century English made this virtually unreadable for me. I've been about half-way through for about a year now and it doesn't look like I'm going to get much further!


Ditto about the english. I'm reading this now - it's quite a good yarn really - but the way it's written is very irritating. I'm a dunce at history, so the roundhead/cavalier stuff is way above my head.
Author:  emma t [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
I really enjoyed this book; though to be honest, I have only read it the once, whereas all of EBD's other books I tend to pick up again and again. Why, I cannot really say; I suppose it's totally unlike most of her other stories; very well written in a crisp style, and I really admire the way Elizabeth goes out of her way to help her to help her country in it's time of need.
Author:  2nd Gen Fan [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
I won't be reading this again either - it all felt too contrived even by Chalet standards! And as for the constant mentions of those lovelocks... :banghead:
Author:  emma t [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Elizabeth the Gallant
2nd Gen Fan wrote:
I won't be reading this again either - it all felt too contrived even by Chalet standards! And as for the constant mentions of those lovelocks... :banghead:



Ha ha, good point there! Maybe that might be a reason why I've not re-read it :mrgreen:

I had a look at the blurb last night out of interest. Was it a very popular book when it was first published? I cannot imagine the love-scenes being very popular amongst the younger readers, even if it was originally written for adults. Did EBD have personal experience of relationships? Though admittedly relationships in the time period of the novel would have been different even to ones in her own time.
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