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Mallory Towers/St Clares/Whyteleafe versus Chalet School

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#1: Mallory Towers/St Clares/Whyteleafe versus Chalet School Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:48 pm
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After reading peoples comments on LM Montgomery and EBD I thought it would be interesting to compare boarding schools and the main ones of the same generation are Enid Blytons Mallory Towers, St Clares and Whyteleafe and Antonia Forrest's Kingscote. Trebizon was written a lot later.
What do people think of the charaters and the schools and which school would people want to go to if they had to choose between them.

My personal favourite between all the Enid Blyton schoold stories was Mallory Towers. I really like Darrell Rivers and her gang. I also liked following the same set of characters as they went up the forms. I found it a lot less confusing when I first started reaing them. The kids in the school seemed a lot more independent from the teachers than at the Chalet School. You rarely heard about what the teachers thought about the students and I loved their Matron better. She had a saner attitude towards midnight feasts.
However, if I had to choose a school it would either be Mallory Towers or the Chalet School if I could be part of Bride's gang or Biddy O'Ryan's gang. I really liked those two groups. The Chalet School always seemed more exotic but Mallory Towers more fun
I never particularly like Antonia Forrest except for Attic Term. I really liked Nicola as a charater more so than Lawrie, but could never get into the books
What do people think?

#2: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:25 pm
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Can't comment on Af as i tried reading erh and failed.
I agree about the independence thing in EB, but apart from the cold baths and the attitude to illness, I found the CS more realistis, especially as I had 3 years at one - 1959-62. The things we got up to were more EBD than EB. However, we never, ever got sick from midnight feasts, and I know full well - now - that the staff knew we had them! So long as we didn't call attention to ourselves they let us be. We always had a feast ont he last night of term, and as we had to have an excuse to go into town to buy the food, the staff were bound to know!

#3: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:56 pm
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I never liked the Antonia Forest books as much as either the EBs or the EBDs either. I always preferred the CS, followed by MT, and coming back to them as an adult (am I an adult?!) I find that the CS books seem much "deeper" and more thought-provoking - the EB books don't appeal as much as they did, and the girls at both MT and St Clare's seem very cliquey and don't half pick on people! & the French teachers are just such silly caricatures Rolling Eyes

!

I did always like the idea of the Malory Towers swimming pool filled with sea water though ... and those midnight feasts down by the said pool ... and those swimming galas they had at St Clare's.

St Clare's seemed more like a traditional boarding school in some ways, in that they had "fags" (in the boarding school book sense of the word!) and so on, but in other ways the girls had much more freedom.

Whyteleafe was obviously different in that it was co-ed - I was always quite surprised that EB wrote something so "untraditional". I went to an all-girls school, but there was an all-boys school just round the corner and we got the bus to and from school with the boys, and had some joint events, and the almost totally female world of the CS etc seemed a bit odd to me sometimes, although I appreciate that most boarding schools don't take both genders/have a corresponding school for the other gender nearby.

I suppose I prefer the CS because the series does go on for so long, and families are more involved, and you see things from the staff's point of view too: there's a whole world there.

Seem to have waffled a lot Embarassed

. Will shut up now!

#4: Author: Fatima, Location: Sunny Qatar

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:33 am
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I agree with the CS books being much deeper. I re-read a couple of St. Clares a few years ago when up ridiculously early with toothache, and was struck by how shallow the characterisation was. The girls of the CS are so much more fleshed out and you really feel you get to know them. I also remember being surprised to discover this, as when I was a kid I really liked St. Clares and thought Lucy was a lovely character.
I never got on with AF either. I had Autumn Term, which I read, given to me by the wonderful godmother who gave me my first Chalets, but never took to it at all.
I think the EB school stories are a good way to get younger girls hooked on reading, and they made me more determined to get on with the CS, even though it seemed quite hard going at first.

#5: Author: Laura V, Location: Czech Republic

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:10 pm
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I'm reading Malory Towers at the moment and for me they just aren't in the same league as CS! The characters still seem quite anonymous (apart from Gwen who I can clearly visualise Laughing

!) by the end of the series and there's not enough description in the stories. And I don't like the way Enid Blyton has all the girls paired off - it is possible to have more than one special friend Mad

!

Trebizon, on the other hand, is one of my favourite series! I just wish Anne Digby would write some more!

#6: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:48 pm
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I haven't read any of the others, but I think the CS is somewhat unique in the way that the lives and viewpoints and pass-times of the mistresses and parents are shown, as well as the girls, so you get a more rounded view of the school as a whole.

#7: Author: Emerence, Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:40 am
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I think I prefer MT in some ways and CS in others. CS is better developed (which is a given, as it's much longer) and more historically interesting. But I prefer the characterisations of the girls in MT, they seem more like real people to me. I knew a girl just like Alicia at school! Miss Annersley is much better than Miss Grayling, though.

It always amuses me that the MT and CS Mary Lou's are so different! I wonder what would happen if they ever met up (now there's a drabble idea) Laughing

#8: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:05 pm
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I never read AF, but out of CS and all the EB books, I'd say CS were the better books and with the nicer people. In EB I always get the impression that there's more pressure to conform and if you don't basically you're scum, sort of. For example I really don't like Gwendoline but I also don't approve of the way everyone treats her. Alicia is a really good character though. Very charming, but not at all nice really. The Whyteleaf books were slightly better though I doubt a school would really run that well!

Trebizon I have never enjoyed as much, though I've only read a few. I think partly because they're modern so they don't have that quaint old fashioned thing going for them.

#9: Author: Pado, Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:15 am
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I had the good fortune to discover EBD and EB simultaneously at my cousins' house. They had accumulated a collection of girls literature that I appreciate now even more so than at the time...and I dived in headfirst. I remember that at the tender age of 9 or so, I felt that even though MT was more modern and I'd probably fit in better there, CS had deeper values even though I couldn't articulate it. I don't remember which book it was (possibly the one where the girls sneak out to a midnight by the pool), but I remember being shocked that the prefects didn't catch them!

#10: Author: Aquabird, Location: North Lanarkshire, Scotland

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:31 am
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My mum read the MT books to me when I was younger, but I actually preferred the St Clare's series out of the two. I thought the Whytleafe books were OK, but I've only read a couple of them, and I've never read any of the Antonia Forest books. But the CS wins hands down for me; much more mature, better descriptions, and the characters aren't as 2-D as EB's.
One thing they have in common, though; Miss Annersley, Miss Grayling and Miss Theobald all have impressive eyes, serious faces and lovely smiles. Wink

#11: Author: Pollyana, Location: Brisbane

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:27 am
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Aquabird wrote:

My mum read the MT books to me when I was younger, but I actually preferred the St Clare's series out of the two. I thought the Whytleafe books were OK, but I've only read a couple of them, and I've never read any of the Antonia Forest books. But the CS wins hands down for me; much more mature, better descriptions, and the characters aren't as 2-D as EB's.
One thing they have in common, though; Miss Annersley, Miss Grayling and Miss Theobald all have impressive eyes, serious faces and lovely smiles. Wink

Has anyone read the fill-ins for Whyteleafe and St Clares? The St Clare's ones aren't too bad, although they don't quite fit the original period, with names like "Fern" and "Libby" but they are a fairly good read for people who enjoy the St Clares series. I often find myself reverting to them and MT when I'm feeling ill, as they don't require effort to read and are quite fun.

The Whyteleafe fill-ins though - I enjoyed the original books, and think they are aimed at roughly the same age as St Clares/MT as far as first reads go. The fill-ins though seem aimed at mich younger readers, and were very wooden. I've hung to all the St Clares/MT books, including fillers, but the Whyteleafe fillers bit the dust very quickly.

#12: Author: Aquabird, Location: North Lanarkshire, Scotland

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:19 pm
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I've read the St Clare's fill-ins. They were OK, but too modernised. I fell about laughing when someone said the word "fiver" in the sixth form fill- in.

#13: Author: Elle, Location: Peterborough

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:46 pm
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Aquabird wrote:

I've read the St Clare's fill-ins. They were OK, but too modernised. I fell about laughing when someone said the word "fiver" in the sixth form fill- in.

I didn't know there were St Clares fill-ins! What are they called and where can I get hold of them?????????

#14: Author: Aquabird, Location: North Lanarkshire, Scotland

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:32 pm
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They are Third Form at St Clare's and Sixth Form at St Clare's, by Pamela Cox. My dad got me them from a charity shop, but I'm sure I've seen them in Waterstone's.

#15: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:28 pm
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I've got the fill-ins and quite liked them - though I do wish the Third Form one had included Alison's infatuation with the Head Girl that's referred to in the later originals ones.

#16: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:08 pm
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I remember that Lesley - I wished the book had dealt with it too. Dare i suggest lack of research for its absence??

#17: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:22 pm
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Maybe it was because of the modern audience? I could see publishers vetoing the idea.

#18: Author: Tamzin, Location: Edinburgh

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:00 pm
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Elle wrote:

Aquabird wrote:

I've read the St Clare's fill-ins. They were OK, but too modernised. I fell about laughing when someone said the word "fiver" in the sixth form fill- in.

I didn't know there were St Clares fill-ins! What are they called and where can I get hold of them?????????

I got copies of both in the children's section of W H Smith just last week. Read them both in an evening but quite enjoyed them. They almost felt right although they were a bit too modern.

The Whyteleafe fill-in's are just terrible though. I got one out of the library fondly imagining I had a good little read in front of me. Instead I had to give up reading it and I've never tried another. The style and ambience were just all wrong. Incidentally does anyone know why, in the original "Naughtiest Girl in the school" book Elizabeth is described at the start as having dark curls and being very pretty whilst in a more recent compilation of the three books (which I only bought to read "The Naughtiest Girl is a Monitor")her curls in the self-same passage have turned golden? Is this prejudice against brunettes or something even more sinister???? Very Happy

#19: Author: tiffinata, Location: melbourne, australia

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:50 am
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Emerence wrote:

It always amuses me that the MT and CS Mary Lou's are so different! I wonder what would happen if they ever met up (now there's a drabble idea) Laughing

Somebody already has written a scene where they meet up. I think it is in the archives. Can't remember the title though

#20: Author: Maeve, Location: Romania

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:34 pm
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Mallory Towers and St. Clares were the first boarding school books I ever read, at the age of 10 or so, I'm guessing. I liked them both, especially MT - Darrell was an attractive character - not especially gifted, but someone who seemed average in a way one could identify with. And the description of MT with its four towers and the natural swimming pool was very winning. Rereading either of EB's series now, thought, they seem hopelessly juvenile and just don't offer the same pleasure as a CS reread.

I liked and still like the CS for the exoticness of the location, the continuity - such a nice, long history - and many very likable characters among girls and staff. But I find AF, hands down the most interesting and the ones I would take with me to a desert island. The characters seem much more real, more flawed and more unpredictable. They are not comfort reads in the way that the CS is - they have too many "ow" moments in them - but that, paradoxically, is why I like them more. They seem closer to my own (day) school experience with staff and parents who aren't always fair or right, with girls being mean to each other and not repenting as they would in a CS book, with school being kind of a like a boring job you have to get through as unscathed as possible.

#21: Author: meerium, Location: belfast, northern ireland

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:21 pm
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I'm an AF fan above all too, and for me the world of Kingscote is far more believable on returning to it as an adult than the CS (in as much as any boarding school scenario can have resonance for me, anyway!), and I think it boils down to the whole area of reform/assimilation. The CS generally sees its new pupils/teachers subscribe (sooner or later) to the 'Chalet School Ideals'. And if they don't subscribe, they're written out. The end.

Whereas, what I think you have in Antonia Forest is a far more complex look at the way boarding school society might be structured, and it feels more real because characters don't necessarily buy into an overall ethos - in fact, it's not even terribly clear whether there is a specific ethos for kingscote or what an ideal 'kingscote girl' should be.

A prime example is the relationship between Nicola (AF's 'eyes' in Kingscote) and a teacher, Miss Redmond. Owing to various pieces of misinformation, Nicola is suspended from the school guide company by Miss Redmond (the guide company captain) in the first school book, Autumn Term. At the beginning of the second school book, End of Term, Miss Redmond invites Nicola to return to guides, but she refuses. Miss Redmond takes the insult personally and, later in the book, contributes to Nicola being left out of the school netball team when she should have been centre and captain, by taking yet another piece of misinformation and not investigating it owing to it fitting in with her own grudge. This latter is marked down in her permanent record, as Nicola later discovers.

In EBD's hands, both the incidents may well have happened, but the results would have been very different. Quite simply, Forest lets these incidents take place unchecked, and uncorrected - Miss Redmond is allowed to remain decidedly petty and Nicola is the one who, unfairly, suffers; and the pupil-teacher relationship is allowed to deteriorate. Extrapolating from the example of Miss Ferrars' start to her CS teaching career (or indeed Miss Ashley), I think EBD would probably have been more likely to have had a 'reveal' moment, where the misunderstandings come to light, the instigators of the misinformation punished and reformed, and Miss Redmond made aware of her unfair behaviour, whereupon she repairs her own relationship with Nicola.

For me, it's refreshing that Antonia Forest doesn't feel the need to maintain a balanced equilibrium in Kingscote - I like the honesty of her portrayal of school life. Sometimes your teachers aren't the morally upstanding individuals they ought to be; sometimes you simply are going to clash with other people for no particular reason. In fact, sometimes, quite simply, life isn't fair!

#22: Author: Changnoi, Location: Milwaukee, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:20 pm
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I generally agree with what's been said before about St Clares/Malory Towers vs CS. I haven't read the AF ones, so I can't comment there.

I do think generally--and this observation was backed up by my dad, the only middle-aged American reader of English girls' boarding school books that I know--that EB's schools tended to be populated by characters of a different socioeconomic class than EBD's. I would almost compare the girls of EB's schools to the girls of some of the feeder schools mentioned in CS in the Oberland (I believe "St Anne's", where Patricia Binney and June Amery are from, which is described as a school where the girls leaving don't need to get a job.) I feel that the EB books are much more like this.

First, we have Angela in St Clare's and Clarissa in Malory Towers, who are "Honourables". Although we have the von Eschenaus and their entire extended multi-national family as well as Elisaveta in the CS, there doesn't seem to be as much focus on the fact that they are titled, whereas in EB books, there's always someone who wants to be friends with Angela/Clarissa just because of their title. One also doesn't tend to see girls like Rosamund Lilley in EB books. The closest I remember are Deirdre in Malory Towers 6 and Eileen in St Clare's 4, and Eileen is presented as some sort of freak of nature. Also, the scene I remember most is where Felicity is leaving for the first time to go to Malory Towers, and she needs to say good-bye to the cook, the gardener, the maid, and a bunch of other people. Although some of the EBD characters have servants, the only comparison I can really think of is Heather in Heather Leaves School, in which there is a separate maid for the schoolroom and all of Mr Raphael's tenants come to serenade him for Christmas.

As for Whyteleafe, I see it as EBD's attempt to write a "Summer Hill" based story. Completely non-traditional and she knew it. I could never work out how old William and Rita were, though. 12? 14? 16? My impression was that Whyteleafe was for much younger children than St Clare's or Malory Towers.

So--to sum up, I like CS better, but I think that one of the major differences is that CS has characters of various socioeconomic statuses, whereas EB books...don't.

Chang

#23: Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Second star to the right

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:02 pm
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Well, like some others here I revere AF above all other GO books.

But let's deal with EB first. Actually I loved them aged 8-10ish, though I think I recognised even then that they were at a bit 2D. EB seemed to have a stock of characters whom she rotated from book to book. I tried a re-read some months ago and just couldn't manage to make it hold my interest though.

EBD is a lot more mature than EB and better written as well. And if some of her characters seem to blend and some of the scenarious come up again and again (and again), well, can you blame the poor woman? She wrote sixty odd!

But AF to me really takes the biscuit. I didn't like her very much when I first read The Ready Made Family aged 11 or so - and really I think that was because I wasn't mature enough. AF's characters are flawed and complex, and so is the world they live in. Kingscote is to me far more believeable than the CS, which I do find - don't shoot me - to be a touch sentimental at times. I think that poor AFs misfortune was to release her books at a time when they were deeply unfashionable.

Not to say that I don't enjoy CS - of course I do - I'm a fully paid up member of FOCS and love the CBB! But I have to ration my AF re-reads, whereas CS I'll happily dip in and out of as a comfort read.

#24: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:22 pm
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I have never read any AF but now I really want to! Are they expensive or are there transicripts available?

#25: Author: Maeve, Location: Romania

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:58 pm
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What a fun question!

There are 13 books in all:

1. Autumn Term
2. The Marlows and the Traitor
3. Falconer's Lure
4. End of Term
5. Peter's Room
6. The Thursday Kidnapping
7. The Thuggery Affair
8. The Ready-Made Family
9. The Player's Boy
10. The Players and the Rebels
11. The Cricket Term
12. The Attic Term
13. Run Away Home

1, 4, 11 and 12 are known as the school books; 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 13 as the home books, which take place between terms; and the rest are the historical books which deal with Marlow family ancestors.

There sad news is AF's books are rather hard to find and there are no transcripts available.

The good news is, GGB has started republishing some of the titles and the school titles, which were reprinted more frequently, can be found somewhat easily in second hand shops, charity shops, or online.

Check out
http://www.maulu.demon.co.uk/AF/
and
http://www.collectingbooksandmagazines.com/antonia.html
for more info, including plot summaries. There is also an active AF discussion at
http://community.livejournal.com/trennels/

Enjoy!

#26: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:36 pm
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Thank you! I will keep an eye out for them, especially the school books. Very Happy

Edit - well I just bought Autumn Term for £3.47 (inc p&p) on amazon so am feeling very pleased with myself!

#27: Author: Maeve, Location: Romania

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:50 am
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Congrats - I really hope you enjoy it. Smile

#28: Author: Lizzie, Location: A little village on the Essex/Suffolk border

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:45 pm
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I like the people so much more in the Chalet School books, and I think that by and large (weeding out the Theklas and the Betty Wynne Davises) they're much better role models than Darrel and her gang in Mallory Towers, who are the heroines of the stories and yet, they're really mean! I remember reading one story where there's a girl who's really nice to everyone, and they think she's wishy washy and a 'doormat' so they set about changing her and making her more like them. And she conforms!

#29: Author: Woofter, Location: Location? What's a location?

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:31 pm
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Oooh, well first of all I've never read Antonia Forest, so I can't comment on them. I don' think like either EB or EDB books better I like them all in their own way.

The chalet School Series I loved because it was so long and created a whole world and told you things about peoples whole lives etc. You saw more from the teachers pont of view and bits about family life not just about one form. However sometimes it gets a bit confusing about character since there are so many different ones all off different generations. I definitely liked the earlier books better (ie the ones in Austria) when all the early characters (most of my favourites are from this period) were still involved.

I read St. Clares and Mallory Towers before the chalet school and when I came to read the chaet school I found them more "grown up". However I like the way she realy just focuses on one set of characters and you therefore get to know them much better. It is less confusing. I also loved the setting of Mallory Towers! A sea water swimming pool and right on the coast (it always seemed to be sunny too)

Whyteleafe to start with I didn't like this it was so different from the others, it was co-educational and ther whole discipline system seemed frankly unreal. In time I came to like it a bit in its own way although it still seems a bit unreal letting the pupils decide the punishments!

#30: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:10 pm
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Thank you Maeve for your advice on AF. I loved Autumn Term and will now be on the lookout for any other AFs in charity shops etc. I can't really compare AF to other school story writers though. I feel like Autumn Term is a book that just happens to be set in a school but which does not really conform to the genre of 'school stoy'. It reminded me a bit of Charlotte Sometimes in that way.

#31: Author: Maeve, Location: Romania

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:16 pm
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Loryat wrote

Quote:

...I can't really compare AF to other school story writers though. I feel like Autumn Term is a book that just happens to be set in a school but which does not really conform to the genre of 'school story'.

I'd never thought of it like that, but I see what you mean. I guess because I found AF's "Term" books first, I've always envisaged the Marlows' world as being primarily that of a school, although even in the "Term" books, there's often a chapter when they are home for half-term. I do find the intense atmosphere of Kingscote very compelling - some of the "Home" books are great, but the school books are my favorites.

In any case, I'd glad you enjoyed Autumn Term. Hope you don't have much difficulty tracking down the others.

#32: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:06 pm
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I've just re-read the St Clares and Mallory Towers books. Of the two I definitely prefer Mallory Towers. I like the way you follow a core group of characters right the way through school. I find the charecterisations believable. Although I love the CS, I find the characters are too ready to shake down to being true Chalet girls.

Also, the way teachers are viewed by pupils is a tad more realistic in EB's world! Flaws of teachers are noted and discussed, even made the basis for tricks. In EBD they are like gods who may turn to each other for support but no real faults or flaws are discussed by pupils, although the staff/Joey may note things (excepting Miss Bubb and the male teachers there).

I don't really like St Clare's (even though it shares my name Very Happy

). I find it too "catty" to use a favourite phrase of EBs. There is so much spite and back biting in the common rooms, and if the 'leaders' of the form don't like someone, then heaven help that person! Also Hilary annoys me - why is she always head of the form?? The only time she isn't is when someone has been left down in a form, and she can't be promoted above them.

#33: Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Second star to the right

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:31 pm
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I agree entirely.

And why, oh why did EB have such a thing about *having* to be good at sport? Or am I being a touch defensive, having spent my school sporting career as Goal Keeper skulking with a book tucked in my waistband and praying play would stay at the other end?

#34: Author: Lisa A., Location: North Yorkshire

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:00 am
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I remember that Pat and Isabel to St Clare's as it was a "sensible school", after the spoiling that they had had at their luxurious prep school, and were angry that they couldn't go with their friends to a much posher school. St Clare's still sounded quite posh to me!

#35: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:10 am
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Yes I remember that about St Clare's. The twins wanted to go to a school where the girls wore 'evening' dresses. I visualised those as ball gowns, rather than the reality of brown velveteens.

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