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Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School
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Author:  JB [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I'm posting this on Fiona's behalf as she's in the middle of a house move and was expecting to be without internet access for a while.

Highland Twins was published in 1942 and is one of the few books written during the War. EBD did not write many books during this period as she also owned and ran the Margaret Roper school during this time. It had been two years since she wrote Goes to It and it was another two years before she wrote Gay; the two books that come before and after Highland Twins. The book is badly cut and the abridged version no longer contained the chapters about Elisaveta’s escaped from Belsornia or Rosalie Dene's adventure in the dark, and many other little tidbits along the way. It is certainly worth getting the unabridged version of Highland Twins. Highland twins was published six times in hardback and five times in paperback. GGBP last published the unabridged version in 2003, which is available on Amazon, but quite expensive.

Highland Twins follows the life of eleven year old twins Flora and Fiona McDonald, two girls whom along with their family are asked to leave their family home on Erisay Island in Scotland by the Admiralty. Joey Maynard is asked to care for them by an old friend as the twins are extremely shy and never been to school before. Joey welcomes them into her home and soon introduces them to the school where the twins quickly make friends with Bride, Primula, Julie, Nancy, Vanna and Nella; and one enemy, Betty Wynne Davies.

Betty Wynne Davies is by this time in the Sixth Form. It is after hearing about the Peace League, Flora accidently lets slip about the Chart of Erisay, which Betty overhears. Betty discusses this with her friends while on a walk and is overheard by a German spy. The Chart of Erisay contains all the secrets of the island including a secret way to get onto the island. The school is then broken into by the German spy who is found by Mary Shand (Head Girl) and Robin Humphries. They chase him off the ground but fail to catch him. The school is sent for a walk where the twins and their friends visit Joey Maynard and meet up with Elisaveta who has recently escaped from Belsornia. The girls then have Half Term and Robin, Daisy and Primula and the twins spend it with Joey cooking. (I’ll leave it to your imagination at how well that turns out!) The twins are threatened over the Erisay Chart and Hilda Annersley and Joey Maynard learn of its existence and the Chart is locked away. While this is happening, Fiona who is gifted with the second sight ‘sees’ her brother Hugh killed when his submarine is torpedoed.

It is during the second half of the term Joey receives a telegram from the admiralty where she is informed Jack is missing presumed dead. Joey struggles to cope with the news and refuses to see anyone including her daughters Len, Con and Margot. Fiona overhears the news being told to the staff and talks to Miss Annersley, insisting that if she only touched something of Jack she would be able to ‘see’ if Jack is alive or not. Hilda reluctantly allows her to. Fiona is able to see and Joey is filled with hope that Jack is alive. Finally events come to head when the German spy is caught and points out Betty as the girl who helped him look for the Erisay Chart. Betty is overcome with remorse and Elizabeth Arnett comes to her defence after three years of being estranged. It is now we finally get an idea of what Betty’s home life is like. In true EBD fashion (and Hilda Annersley) although Betty is expelled, another home is found for her. And finally we see Jack again at the Christmas play, alive and recovering.

So what did people think of this book? As with all other discussions about the books, we are following a theme, (though do feel free to discuss anything you want to relating to this book). The theme is danger.

We have many forms of danger in this book, the main one being the War. How well do people feel EBD handled the dangers related to War especially given EBD was writing for children? Do people think EBD wrote about the danger’s to life (Hughie and Jack) well. How realistic did people find family’s reaction to death’s or the threat of a loved one missing? Was the twins reaction to Hughie dying believeable and what of Joey’s reaction to Jack being missing?

We also have the threat to the school of a German spy. How well do you feel this was handled? Do you think it was realistic that a German spy just happened to be around when the twins went to the school? Do you think Betty’s punishment was just and fair; if not or if so then why?

How did people find the dangers Elisaveta faced while trying to escape Belsornia with two small children and her maid, not knowing if her father or husband were still alive and needing to earn enough money to reach England? How deeply did her plight move or affect you when say compared to Joey’s escape from Austria?

And finally we have the psychological danger of the second sight. What if Fiona hadn’t been able to see Jack or what if she got it wrong with what she saw? Do people think Hilda Annersley did the right thing by allowing Fiona to ‘see’. How did people feel about the inclusion of the second sight? Was it well written, did people find it believable or did people dismiss it as just EBD’s imagination.

Author:  Alison H [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

This one's very much a wartime book: I can't imagine EBD including a spy story like this in the series in any other context. I'm not quite sure why she chose to combine it with her rather bizarre take on people from the Scottish Highlands (which IIRC is similar to that in one of EJO's books), whom she depicts as travelling on trains in full (male?) Highland kit, though!

I think that Robin comes across very well in this - although it's a shame that she seems to have to miss out on time at school due to being "needed at home". So does Elisaveta, who deals very well with a dangerous escape (again something that would only feature in a war book) across Europe, although Belsornia's move from being on the northern Adriatic coast at one point to bordering Turkey in this is rather "interesting". & so does Elizabeth. Joey comes across less well: I get the impression that her reason for taking in Flora and Fiona (BTW, are we meant to know who Jean Mackenzie was :roll: ?) was largely to avoid having evacuees from inner cities billeted on her, or having to do any other sort of war work. & don't get me started on why Madge doesn't get involved in war work: it would be totally in character for her to organise knitting circles or something, but she doesn't.

I'd love to know what happened to Rosalie after she ended up still, grey and to all appearance dead! Why on earth did neither EBD nor the editors pick up on that?! & the idea that Karl Linders just happened to be flying over the CS and to drop a message on it is very odd indeed!

The second sight storyline's always controversial. I try to keep an open mind about things like that myself, but I find it hard to believe that Hilda, a woman who seems to hold very conventional religious beliefs, would be convinced by it. Also, I appreciate that she meant to try to give Joey hope, but she could easily have been giving her false hope and I can't believe she'd do that. It's completely understandable that Joey wants to clutch at any straw going and to believe that Jack isn't really dead and that there's been a mistake, but I find Hilda's actions to be out of character.

I wish we'd seen more about Jack's return. I read the pb long before I managed to get hold of a copy of the hb and assumed that a big section about Jack's return had been cut, but it hadn't ... he just turns up at the Christmas play and that's the first we hear of his being alive. My great uncle was also reported missing presumed drowned by the Navy during the Second World War and later turned up alive: I'm not sure how common things like that were, but they certainly did happen in real life.

I was waffling about this in another thread recently, but we see a rare emotional side to Jem in this: he's hit very hard by the news of Jack's death.

It's a strange combination of "danger" themes that could only really appear in a wartime book and the second sight storyline which doesn't really fit with the general ethos of the CS books either.

Author:  MJKB [ Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I like the second sight theme and think it's treated pretty well on the whole. Of the two heads, I'd have thought that Nell would be slightly more inclined to go with it than Hilda. Having said that, neither women ever come across as in any way gullible or spirit struck. Hilda, feeling so desparately sorry for Jo, may just have allowed this faint hope to cause a rush of blood to the head.
What struck me the first time I read the scene in which Joey learns of Jack's presumed death, is that another character, who reacted as strongly as Jo does to the news, would have incurred the 'pull yourself together for your children's sake' response from the School authorities. I'm not saying they wouldn't have been so supportive, but it's likely that she would have been expected to have a stiff upper lip rather more quickly than Joey demonstates. It's almost as though Jo being Jo, loves far more deeply than anyone else. Her's and Jack's relationship is depicted as so much more profound than other people's.
When Mrs. Redmond (can't remember her maiden name off hand) returns to the School, having lost not only her husband but her only daughter, we're not given any insight into the depth of her grief. It's almost as though working again at the CS would be her best compensation under the circumstances. I often wondered if Jack had died, unaccountable as it might seem to us in hindsight, how quickly would Joey have returned to normal life.

Author:  emma t [ Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

This is one of my favourite books of the seriel,and I was lucky enough to read it in hard back for the first time; when I was about 12 or 13 as my grandma gave me her copy of it. Alas, no d/w though!
The issue of war is always there; it's well thought out as you can see that EBD wanted her readers to know exactly what was going on and not pussy foot around them 'spineless jelly fish' comes to mind here! Though it would have been hard to ignore, anyway.
When Joey hears of Jack's death I always cry; even now when I re-read it :| it's always very touching, and when she sees the triplets and says she has to be mother and father to them both, it always chokes me. The second sight issue is a little far-fetched, but yet, as the twins have lived on their little island all their lives, who knows what they might have inherited so-to-speak? I am suprised that they let Fiona try it though, even if to give Joey some kind of comfort, I know they protest a little, the authorities,but give in eventually.
It works out well; and Joey is given the hope that her husband is alive, and eventually turns up at the end of the book. How did Fiona feel about knowing she was right? Does it not unnerve her having this otherwordly knowledge, even if she has had it as part of her life?
Highland Twins is one of my favourite books because of the mention of Elisaveta, who is one of my favourite characters (I once wrote a story about Joey and Veta which was published in FOCS :mrgreen: ) a few years ago. The things she went through were well thought about, and I think EBD did put a great deal into it (Did she not dedicate a whole chapter to veta?). I find it quite humbling that a princess would do extremely hard work to keep her family clean and under a roof, etc - it just goes to show that the Chalet School rubbed off well on her, and her early training to think of people before others as a princess and a guide goes a long way.

Author:  Margaret [ Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

The second sight is the one part of this book which I don't like. I don't understand the school letting Flora do it. I can certainly understand Bill being so against it, being a Catholic, and I would have thought that Hilda's faith would have been against it too.

Having said that, apparantly I used to come out with things which according to the family, I couldn't possibly know, and when asked how I knew used to say "I just knowed", this was when I was tiny, pre-school I believe. I can't remember it but the rest of the family used to tell me of it repeatedly. (It would be handy if I could still do it. Wouldn't I be popular on Derby Day)

Author:  Abi [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I honestly don't know whether I like the second-sight part or not. I think it's because this was one of the earliest books I read and as a child I just completely accepted it, so that even now I find it really hard to drag my mind away from "well, that's just what happened". To me, it just naturally fits in with the story, especially with the part where Fiona sees her brother. I wonder whether EBD maybe saw it as a message from God to Joey - but then, she'd probably have said so. Or maybe as it was Scottish, that made it ok, like Kathie Robertson always knowing where the North was.

I didn't read the full version until GGBP's reprint so was very excited to read about Elisaveta, who is one of my favourite characters - so down-to-earth for a princess! I like the way her and Joey's reactions to wartime traumas are so contrasted and yet both are perfectly believable, plausible and in-character.

Author:  RoseCloke [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I like the Highland Twins a lot, mainly for the depictions of wartime life, but like the posters above am uneasy with the Sight theme. Even as a child, when I still half-believed in fairies (this went on for an embarrassingly long period! :oops: ) the idea of Second Sight in such a sensible series of books felt discordant when reading. As an adult, when many of my reactions to the books have changed, this is a constant. I'm not sure what would have happened if Jack hadn't turned up - does anyone think Madge would have taken on the triplets for the interim/longer period? Certainly Jo is portrayed as incoherent (understandably so!) with grief.

Reading Highland Twins and other CS books when I was little, I never felt that the Jo/Jack courtship was portrayed with much warmth on either side, so her reaction to his death didn't strike true with me. It's strange that as I've grown older, and more sceptical about many of EBD's themes (like the pre-eminence of doctors!), that this opinion has reversed. I will admit to shedding a sneaky tear when I re-read Highland Twins a couple of months ago after an absence :) I would be interested to know whether anybody else has had a change of heart over this book, given the importance of the scene.

As to the physical dangers, I felt the spy plot was not very realistic, but it was an excellent way of drumming careful attitudes into children during wartime. The air raid scene at the beginning is still one of my favourites and, I think, particularly well done if only for the images it evokes.

I haven't read the scenes with Elisaveta, but she is one of my favourite characters, so I do wish I had! :D It would probably have made the gap between Tirol days and her postwar situation less jarring when I first encountered the latter (I've only ever read the paperback version of any CS book).

Author:  Lesley [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I'm not sure about second sight myself - but I think I can understand why Hilda Annersley, a staunch Anglican, would consider it. I think her reasoning was solely to give Joey some measure of relief. She had sat with Joey for some evenings and seen just how devastated she was at the thought of jack's death, had seen how badly Joey's reaction had impacted upon the triplets. I think she was basically 'clutching at straws' but prepared to do so if it would help Joey. And she would have been intimately aware of the quote from Hamlet - 'There are more things in heaven and earth...'


I don't think EBD herself actually liked the idea particularly and feel that here Nell Wilson is giving EBD's own views on the subject.

Author:  Sunglass [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I like the little bits of ordinary war life you get in this one - the routine of air-raids, Digging for Victory, the difficulties of finding ingredients for cake-making - but I think I find the way in which Bill and Hilda talk about the war (to the school at large and to Lavender's aunt) in Lavender more generally moving.

I know we talked endlessly (and heatedly!) about this on the thread about Robin being kept home from school to help Joey a while ago, but I do continue to find it mysterious that EBD never mentions major characters engaged in any kind of war work in the home, even knitting socks or saving things for salvage or whatever - it seems a curious omission for people like Madge and Joey, who themselves escaped not long before from the Reich, and who had a more nuanced understanding of Nazism and its evils, and more sympathy for invaded countries - than most, given their own experiences and those of their friends. I would have expected at least mentions of their efforts, and probably scenes where one of them tried to persuade sceptics that the Nazis were the bad guys, not all Germans. It seems like a lost opportunity in a way!

And I really don't care for the way EBD portrays evacuees at all (can't remember if this is in this one or Goes To It) - it's as though the snobbery or social anxiety that marks her portrayal of Joan Baker overcomes the very laudable concern with the sufferings of the poor locals she displayed in the Tyrol books. Here the children are grubby, Cockney figures of fun, laughed at for not knowing about the countryside, rather than displaced, possibly traumatised children. And of course Joey actually takes in the Highland twins in the first place because she doesn't want evacuees billeted on her, which sounds rather un-Joey, given her later tendency to want to adopt anyone in need! Or does she only like to take in middle-class children in need, apart from Reg, with his middle-class father and medical ambitions?

The spy plot always dips into Enid Blytonishness for me, but the second sight one is interesting, if only for the fact that EBD wrote it at all, knowing (as she surely must have, given the way she writes of Bill's disapproval) that the use of divination/supernatural means of knowledge etc is strictly forbidden by Catholicism as a serious moral danger. Presumably she couldn't help herself putting in such a wonderful piece of melodrama involving Joey, Jack, death, and the supernatural, but I'm always surprised that there isn't more obvious warning and caution surrounding it. Generally EBD makes it very plain where the morally correct position is in any event, and makes sure no minor prank goes unpunished, but not here. Which feels odd, given how many frauds did this kind of thing for money during both world wars, as EBD must also have known. But I think whoever suggested above that It's OK If You're Scottish is probably right - EBD does romanticise her Celts.

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I also think that the second sight storyline might have been a good way for EBD to - *pauses to think of good word* - 'numb' the pain of death, in a sense. While she wants to portray realistically life during that period, at the same time she must have been aware of how many of her readership would have experienced just such loss and suffering in their own lives, and would presumably have wanted to keep from reminding them of that and upsetting them. By letting Fiona (?) "see" that Jack is all right, it gives her a way of reassuring younger readers that the books won't be tainted by the grief they are trying to avoid in real life. Or something. Hope that made sense!

Otherwise, I do really like this book for its portrayal of war. The war work thing never struck me as that odd because she is, after all, primarily concerned with the school, and we see them doing things like digging for victory. Presumably she didn't feel that what the adults were doing would interest her readers that much - an ommission and out of character, yes, but I don't necessarily think that the books lose anything for it.

Author:  RubyGates [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Until Christmas 09 I only had the paperback version of Highland Twins and for some reason I never really got any sense of danger from it. Certainly not the way I did from Exile. I suppose it comes across more in the hardback with Elisaveta's escapades but even so it still seemed quite tame compared to what, even as a child, I knew people had suffered in towns and cities during the war. The way the twins speak didn't really grate on me when I was a child reading the book but when I got the hardback for Christmas I got seriously irritated by EBD's attempts at dialect. I'm not saying that because I'm from the Highlands or anything, it just really got to me, all the p-for-bs and the ssssssss at the ends of words. Surely the fact that we know they're from a Scottish Island is enough for us to imagine the way they speak?

Author:  Tor [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Quote:
Surely the fact that we know they're from a Scottish Island is enough for us to imagine the way they speak?


I agree - it is one of the few things I don't feel angry at Armada for editing. It's a pity EBD didn't have a better editor at the outset really.

I also didn't get any real sense of danger from Highland Twins. Sadness, yes; worry, yes; but not really danger. But I was horrified at Betty's expulsion as a child - it seemed like the most awful, awful punishment for what, in a non-war scenario, might have been no worse than the average piece of schoolgirl nastiness. I'm not saying it wasn't a justified punishment, rather that my childhood self really took the message to heart as the punishment was couched in terms that I could understand (disgrace, and the desperate rawness that still surrounded the breakdown of Elizabeth and Betty's friendship). Which suggests EBD did her job well - it must have had much more of an effect during the war.

Author:  MJKB [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Tor wrote:
and the desperate rawness that still surrounded the breakdown of Elizabeth and Betty's friendship). Which suggests EBD did her job well - it must have had much more of an effect during the war.

I think EBD's portrayal of the breakdown of this relationship is one of her absolute best cahracterisations. She gives the reader a real insight into the depth of Betty's impotent rage and hurt over what she regards as Elizabeth's betrayal. I haven't read Highland Twinsin a while so I can't quite remember how Elizabeth deals with Betty's
disgrace.
Sunglass wrote:
And I really don't care for the way EBD portrays evacuees at all (can't remember if this is in this one or Goes To It) - it's as though the snobbery or social anxiety that marks her portrayal of Joan Baker overcomes the very laudable concern with the sufferings of the poor locals she displayed in the Tyrol books. Here the children are grubby, Cockney figures of fun, laughed at for not knowing about the countryside, rather than displaced, possibly traumatised children. And of course Joey actually takes in the Highland twins in the first place because she doesn't want evacuees billeted on her, which sounds rather un-Joey, given her later tendency to want to adopt anyone in need! Or does she only like to take in middle-class children in need, apart from Reg, with his middle-class father and medical ambitions?
And don't forget the Orish Biddy! Actually, Biddy is one of EBD's most well written characters, imho, especially since she doesn't show an inordiante amount of obsequious gratitude for her 'rescue'.
What a pity EBD didn't take the opportunity to write a sympathetic portrait of an evacuee, someone like Wille Beech (Goodnight Mr.Tom)

Author:  Nightwing [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

MJKB wrote:
Actually, Biddy is one of EBD's most well written characters, imho, especially since she doesn't show an inordiante amount of obsequious gratitude for her 'rescue'.


Having just gotten into EJO I definitely agree with you there! There's a great deal of soppiness from the people 'rescued' by the Abbey Girls, which both amuses me a drives me nuts (particularly when the Abbery Girls are laughing about it behind their devotees' backs), and I love that when we see that kind of devotion in EBD it's often seen in a negative light, or in a much quieter kind of way. Biddy, particularly, doesn't seem to feel particularly cut up about her past life, nor does she seem to have any deep feelings for the school. She's a pragmatic kind of person, when she isn't making Baby Voodoos or knocking blacking powder all over herself :D

I never minded the Second Sight storyline as a kid, because it didn't seem that out of the ordinary given the other books I read (The Secret Garden, for example!). But I was always really disappointed that EBD didn't visit that type of storyline again, and that the twins just disappear off to Canada, since I think they're quite interesting characters; I love that EBD manages to emphasise their differences without them losing their similarities.

This was always one of my favourite books, although I've never yet read the full version!! I love the continued story of Betty and Elizabeth, and always felt sorry for Betty at the end - compared to the later books, which are all very much stand-alones, I love that this one has more of a 'sequel' feel to it.

Author:  Loryat [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I always loved this one as it was one of the first ones I read, and even the Scottish stereotyping didn't bother me that much. I didn't question any of the plot elements, but was swept along by the story. Despite all the bombing and deaths, I don't really get a sense of danger from this book, but I've only read pb.

I think this book has some of EBD's best writing, all the death scenes are very moving - I love Jem's reaction to Jack's death particularly - and so is Betty's disgrace and Elizabeth's feelings of guilt at not having done more for her erstwhile friend. When we find out what Betty's homelife is like, it's very sad. I wish EBD had written more about Betty and Elizabeth's 'breakup' since that would have made for a really good storyline. I'm also sorry we don't see more of the twins and Sheina later on.

I do think it's a shame that Madge and Joey aren't shown to engage in any war work, and surprising when you think about it. However, I don't think that we are supposed to think that Joey is taking the twins on to avoid taking evacuees. I always read it as the Robin pointing out that she will have to take evacuees in a few months or a year anyway, so she might as well take the twins now. Joey's original reaction seems to be that she doesn't want to take them at all. Though I'm sure even without Robin's intervention, she would have come round to it eventually. I used to assume that Jean McKenzie was a character from one of the books I hadn't read, and I was very disappointed when I discovered she wasn't. :D

I read the book in pb unfortunately. I came across an hb in a shop recently and read some of it. I have to say I was really annoyed with the way EBD wrote the twins' speaking. Out of all the non-English speaking characters she has in her books, the only ones she chooses to write as she thinks they 'sound' are the Scottish Highlanders!

Author:  hac61 [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I think that part of the reason Hilda let Fiona try to "see" was for Fiona's peace of mind as well. It is extremely frustrating when you believe you can help to be denied that opportunity.

My mother lived in an area with Romany Gypsies during WW2, many of whom "had the sight" or could communicate telepathically, so I have no problem with the concept. The friend I now share a house with can receive messages from those who have passed over - another reason it doesn't boggle me.

Author:  Fiona Mc [ Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I never had any problems with the second sight storyline, I just never found it particularly believable or well written. LM Montgomery uses that particularly story line in her Emily books and in Among the Shadows where she certainly deals with the supernatural and I find her depictions of it far more believeable than EBD. I think it was the whole needing to touch something of Jack's that kind of lost me. I believed Emily's way, so much more and it affected me so much more. I still gives me that tingle every time I read it, whereas EBD is too pragmatic, like she read about it and thought she would add it in.

I'm not sure what I feel like about Jack's death. I do find Joey's reaction to be a little selfish, especially in regards to her children. She basically abandons them after Jack dies, which I find odd especially given her professed great love for them and all her children. I'm not sure if it's because Joey is only 23-24 at the time. However, having experienced my husband's best friend dying leaving a wife and baby daughter, and the wife clutched to her daughter, saying she is giving me so much comfort as she is a part of my husband and a reason for getting up in the morning instead of staying bed wanting to die too. She also said she hated when people offered to look after her daughter as she really needed and wanted her daughter at the time. (And it wasn't like her husband didn't mean anything to her. They had been together since they were 18) I get everyone's reaction is different, I just find Joey's reaction hard to deal with. I could probably understand more if there was only Jack and no children or if the children really did not mean anything to her but they are meant to in the book.

I find Jem's reaction extremely touching and so lovely as he puts Joey first and at great cost to himself. I've found most people tend to grieve together, even when everyone is fully aware there's is one person's grief more poignant than the rest, but in this EBD only allows Joey to grieve while the rest are forced to hold it together for her alone and I find that extremely sad because it does seem to bring a lot of healing when families are drawn together through or with the death. I wonder if Joey's reaction would have been different if Jack was dead not missing presumed dead and if that's what made it harder, because the hope would poison the grief.

Author:  Fezziwig [ Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I think it's my least favourite of the war books but I really want to read the HB copy now.

I like the description of the train journey though I always think how awful it must have been with the danger of the bombs and the discomfort of travelling all that way.

I also like the description of the Linders escape and would really like to know what EBD wrote about Elisaveta escaping.

The second sight I didn't mind at all as a child but as an adult I just don't think the school would have allowed her to do it. What if she had seen something so awful that it scarred her for life? I think that it was a risk too far.

I believe you were exempt from war work if your youngest child was under 3 but I would like to have seen more of their daily life in the war.

Nick

Author:  Loryat [ Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Fezziwig wrote:
I believe you were exempt from war work if your youngest child was under 3 but I would like to have seen more of their daily life in the war.

Maybe that was the beginning of the Maynard's obsessive baby production. Keep getting Joey pregnant so she won't have to do any war work which naturally she would be too highly strung and delicate to undertake. :D

Author:  Alison H [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Just on a totally different note, am I right in thinking that this is the only book in which we get reference to how people have gone on in public exams? In the first chapter, Robin gets a letter from Elizabeth Arnett saying how Elizabeth, Biddy and various others have done in their School Certificate.

I don't think they did public exams in Tyrol, and there's a mention somewhere of having a GCE centre at the school in Switzerland for the first time which makes me wonder what they did about public exams before then (unless EBD just meant that it was the first year they'd done GCE rather than School Cert, but I think the timings are out and anyway that's not how it sounds) , but we never get storylines about people being ill during exams, failing exams and having to repeat the year, or even just about people doing well in exams. I know that all CS girls automatically get accepted on to the university course of their choice :lol: , but I do find it odd that there's so little reference to public exams. I wonder why EBD chose to mention them here, unless it's just because it's the first book after they got settled in Britain, but nowhere else.

Author:  JB [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I wonder if it's the first year the pupils sat external exams? I think it would have been the end of their first academic year in England so that would make sense. Interesting that EBD didn't use any of those plotlines. The main thing I think of when I think of exams at the CS is the belief that pupils shouldn't worry too much about them. Perhaps that makes when, as you say Alison, everyone gets into the university of their choice anyway. :roll:

Author:  Sunglass [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Alison H wrote:

I know that all CS girls automatically get accepted on to the university course of their choice :lol: , but I do find it odd that there's so little reference to public exams. I wonder why EBD chose to mention them here, unless it's just because it's the first book after they got settled in Britain, but nowhere else.


I think she got confused about public exams in general and got differently confused at different periods. She's clear early in the series on the fact that Simone needs to sit her 'bachot' to get into the Sorbonne, but by the time of CS in the Oberland, Gabrielle Fournet is apparently expecting to go to the Sorbonne in order to study for her bachot.

I always vaguely assumed too that Highland Twins was the first year CS girls sat public exams - though, come to think of it, wouldn't Mary Burnett and other 'born students' from the Tyrol days have needed public exams to get into their UK universities of choice? Or was that not necessary then, and entrance exams/interviews were the main hurdle?

I do wish EBD had used more exam plots. I always rather enjoyed them in other GO writers, like EB's clever Alicia thinking she'd become stupid in her School Cert in return for being mean to less clever girls, but in fact it being down to illness, or desperate scholarship girls cheating to keep up their academic standards to the necessary level, or even AF's Nicola needing to do well to win the Prosser to stay at Kingscote. Given that EBD likes to write plots that involve buiild-ups of tension (from the school being snowed in/a serious illness etc) and their release, it would have been another, quite realistic way to get the same effect. There was a rather nice plot in one of the Malory Towers books where one of the younger forms, feeling sorry for Darrell and co sitting exams, arranges cheekily to play an elaborate trick in the older form's classroom during lessons to give them a laugh. (Though the CS prefects would have punished such an initiative brutally!)

I'd agree that exam plots' total absence from the CS has a lot to do with the emphasis on health above all else - Miss Bubb's obsession with academic standards and exam results is clearly seen as a Bad Thing, as is poor Marilyn Evans' insistence on prioritising her academic work above her HG duties. And the fact that CS girls effortlessly make it into prestigious university courses without pulling all-nighters, worrying, living on coffee (and pills!) etc - while still running the school and devoting long periods to thinking up Sale themes and dealing with Middles - is one of EBD's more fabulous fantasies!

Author:  JB [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I have visions of a CS girl in an Oxford interview saying that she hadn't sat any public exams but explaining in great detail about the last sale. :)

Author:  RoseCloke [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

JB wrote:
I have visions of a CS girl in an Oxford interview saying that she hadn't sat any public exams but explaining in great detail about the last sale. :)


But I don't think that's infeasible... from what we were told of Oxbridge requirements you have to be interesting. And EBD does mention several times about the 'modern' reasoning methods the CS teachers use, so the girls could think for themselves, even if they didn't have the paper to prove it. Maybe they could get away with saying they'd been studying on the continent. CS girls have a lot in their favour after all: travel; languages; excellent grammar :D ; sports; hobbies; voluntary work; guides etc.

Author:  Mel [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

In the first year in Switzerland they 'don't bother' with exams due to the move and Upper VI of course go straight on to Welsen. How did Julie and Co manage? Did Oxbridge at that time rely on interview and their own selection exam only?

Author:  Alison H [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Oxford and Cambridge would have had their own entrance exams then, but we never hear about anyone taking them, or for that matter anyone attending an interview; and some of the girls do go to other universities, or on to other forms of further education.

According to a "memories of former students" article written by a lady on my old uni (Birmingham)'s website, when she started uni in 1930 prospective students were required to get 5 credits in their school certificate (which IIRC was the requirement for getting Matric rather than an ordinary pass?).

During in the period between the educational/welfare state reforms of the immediate post-war years, which made it easier for more young people to stay on at school and get better qualifications, and the establishment of several new universities in the 1960s there was plenty of competition for places, and EBD just doesn't seem to've got this. The talk about Roger Richardson "putting his name down" for university or Josette Russell having to wait until LSE'd got a vacancy, as if universities were public schools, just doesn't make sense :roll: .

Author:  Loryat [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I think in Exile Madge mentions that they'll be able to do public exams for the first time. Before then people had to get matric (I think?) when they applied for university.

They definitely are mentioned from time to time. In Changes they talk about the arrangements for the end of term exams and there's a mention of the unfortunates sitting the public exams as opposed to school ones. It is weird that they're not talked about more though. Maybe EBD thought they weren't very interesting? Or maybe most of the girls we're reading about are too young to be sitting them?

ETA It's very annoying as I'd really like to get a good idea of how the exams worked in those days! :x

Author:  Sunglass [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

RoseCloke wrote:
JB wrote:
I have visions of a CS girl in an Oxford interview saying that she hadn't sat any public exams but explaining in great detail about the last sale. :)


But I don't think that's infeasible... from what we were told of Oxbridge requirements you have to be interesting.


Yes, but interesting on top of a highly impressive academic record! And there would have been a lot of competition for the relatively few places for each subject at Oxford when EBD was writing, because there were so few women's colleges - only LMH, Somerville, St Hugh's, and St Hilda's, plus I think St Anne's was incorporated at some point in the 1950s, in time for some of the Swiss-era girls.

But if you bear in mind that the five Oxford women's colleges would only take in, say, between eight and ten girls in total to read English per year, it gives you some idea of how unlikely some of EBD's airiness about CS Oxbridge applications success is! (Even if Eustacia Benson was really talking up CS girls around High Tables! :D )

Author:  Loryat [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Can anyone explain to me how School Certificate worked? Or point me in the direction of a website/book that will explain it in great detail?

One thing I never get is lazy Gwendoline, who apparently is always bottom, even getting to sit Schol Cert in Mallory Towers. Didn't the school decide in those days who would sit it and who wouldn't? And surely Gwen would make up an illness to get out of it if she could?

Author:  Clare [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Loryat wrote:
And surely Gwen would make up an illness to get out of it if she could?

She made out that she had a weak heart at half term so her Mother and Miss Winter took her home and fussed over her. The doctor found nothing wrong, but Mrs Lacy insisted she saw a specialist, who described Gwen as a "little humbug" (IIRC) and recommended lots of exercise. When her Father saw the letter he sent her back to school to fail the exam and be humiliated.

Gwen isn't allowed to sit the Higher exam, as she is not up to standard, and Miss Oakes tells her she doubts she ever will be of higher standard, no matter what school she attends.

*sorry for Off Topic-ness, but I've been reading MT recently*

Author:  shesings [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I was always totally confused by EBD's various references to public exams but assumed it was because she was talking about the English system :oops: !

I went to secondary school at a time when Highers and Lowers were the leaving exams in Scotland. If you wanted to go to university you required a Leaving Certificate with five Higher passes (for some courses you could get away with four) one of which had to be English. A good slew of passes at Lower would get you into an office as trainee draughtsman, accountant and so on.

Of course, I was in the year when it all changed to Higher and Ordinary Grades though five Highers were still needed for University entrance. For Teacher Training College (Primary only, Secondary teachers had to have a degree first) three good Highers, which had to include English, and at least two Ordinary grade passes, one of which had to be Arithmetic, were needed.

To get back on topic, the part that always scared me as a child was Rosalie's adventure coming home from Joey's house. I was vexed when it wasn't in the PB and even more vexed on reading the full version as an adult to realise that there was never any explanation of who, what or why! For all EBD told us to the contrary, it could have been a figment of Rosalie's overheated imagination.

Author:  Alison H [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

AFAIK, to get into university, you had to get credits in 5 subjects in your school certificate (which is still kind of with us today, in that most schools and colleges want 5 GCSE passes at grade C or above before you can do A-levels), which gave you "matric" and (originally, presumably before it became an entrance requirement anyway, exempted you from part of the uni work). Higher school certificate exams just exempted you from part of the uni work, whereas once GCE came in in 1951 uni entrance became dependent on results at A-level (which replaced the higher school certificate) rather than on the first level of exams.

The bit with Rosalie totally confuses me! Why did neither EBD nor her editors realise that we were never given an explanation of what had happened? I can just about accept that maybe EBD just didn't realise that she hadn't written it down, but surely she must have proof-read the finished version at some point, and realised then? It's very odd :? .

Author:  JB [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Alison H wrote:
The bit with Rosalie totally confuses me! Why did neither EBD nor her editors realise that we were never given an explanation of what had happened? I can just about accept that maybe EBD just didn't realise that she hadn't written it down, but surely she must have proof-read the finished version at some point, and realised then? It's very odd :? .


Thanks for the explanation of exams, Alison,

There must have been very little editing of the books done as there are many "continuity" errors within books. Does anyone know how differently publishing would have worked in those days?

I noticed a new error when I read And Jo for the recent FD. When Miss Annersley says she has something to tell Jo and is going to tell her that the Robin is ok. Jo asks if the news is that Saints are going to have boats. We're told that Miss Browne has a terror of water and won't let her girls have boat. Later on, at the regatta, we're told that the Saints have been used to river work for years.

Author:  violawood [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

JB wrote:
There must have been very little editing of the books done as there are many "continuity" errors within books. Does anyone know how differently publishing would have worked in those days?


I'm certainly no expert, but I think it was very much hit-and-miss, I'd guess that Chambers had an overall Children's Editor, but I'm not convinced that EBD had an individual editor - I think the onus was on the author to correct those snake-like galley proofs after a manuscript had been typeset :lol: There's the part in Jo Returns where Jo's book is accepted, of course and I know there's another GO writer with a similar description (and I can't for the life of me remember who) and the whole process does seem quite casual - particularrly the bit about selling your copyright :shock: - again, though, I think that was pretty much standard practice for the time - amazing though it seems now.

I don't think either that a lot of authors had the kind of profile they have now and, to be blunt, I'd suspect that authors like EBD - writing generally good stories but not masterpieces - suffered from a good deal of intellectual snobbery from reviewers and so on. And, of course, EBD is the kind of author that keep the publishers going !*

Oops - bit of a rant there :oops: Can anybody recommend any autobiographies by publishers working around the time ? I've got Mary Stott's Forgetting's No Excuse - she was a journalist and editor of The Guardian's women's page - so not exactly book publishing but it's interesting.

*I was given a dictionary of women's biographies a good few years ago (pre-internet, CBB, GGB and so on) and was pleased to see a short though very fair entry for EBD. It was ages before I twigged that it was a Chambers publication :D Still - good to see them acknowledging authors that must have been important in keeping the firm going.

Author:  sealpuppy [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I've a vague feeling you had to get credits in Matric as well as School Cert, to go to university. My father-in-law was born in 1907 so would have been 18 in 1925 - either failed one subject or, I rather think, just got a pass, not a credit. Meant he couldn't go to uni and train as a pharmacist, so he ended up a bank manager instead!

Before the days of School Cert, etc, there was something called The Junior Oxford, which seems to have been taken (at an external centre) when you were about 14. I don't know any details, nor what exams you took next. Maybe Matric?

Author:  Loryat [ Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Clare wrote:
Loryat wrote:
And surely Gwen would make up an illness to get out of it if she could?

She made out that she had a weak heart at half term so her Mother and Miss Winter took her home and fussed over her. The doctor found nothing wrong, but Mrs Lacy insisted she saw a specialist, who described Gwen as a "little humbug" (IIRC) and recommended lots of exercise. When her Father saw the letter he sent her back to school to fail the exam and be humiliated.

Gwen isn't allowed to sit the Higher exam, as she is not up to standard, and Miss Oakes tells her she doubts she ever will be of higher standard, no matter what school she attends.

*sorry for Off Topic-ness, but I've been reading MT recently*

I remembered that storyline but didn't realise it was part of the School Cert book! :oops:

OT, Gwen's father is a bit of a problematic character for me. On the one hand I feel sorry for him. It seems he's pushed out of the family circle by both Gwen and Mrs Lacey; on the other hand, like the Winterton's father, he seems to have very little input in his daughter's life and then when surprise surprise she turns out to be a brat (though the Wintertons are not half as bad) that's when he decides to put his foot down.

Is Mr Lacey neglectful, or was he excluded? And if he was excluded, should he have pushed more to be part of Gwen's life, or would he have been seen as infringing on the feminine side of things?

Thanks alison h, sealpuppy and shesings for the exam info. Would Scottish pupils generally sit Leaving Certificate, or would some do the School/Higher Cert system? Would you be able to go to English/Scottish universities with Scottish/English qualifications? And Shesings, when would people generally sit the Leaving Certificate in Scotland?

Author:  shesings [ Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Highers and Lowers were both taken in Fifth Year i.e. 17 or thereabouts, though some subjects, History and Geography for example, were taken in Sixth Year when you could also take resits.

If you were leaving before 5th year or went to Junior Secondary School you had a certificate, which I always knew as a Scrip and whose posh name escapes me, which detailed subjects taken, exams passed - and your character! A good Scrip was a necessity for apprenticeships or getting an office or shop job. Naturally, firms looked for passes in subjects which seemed relevant, woodwork, metalwork, technical drawing, arithmetic if you were going for a trade, shorthand, typing and a good passes at English, arithmetic and commercial subjects for offices and shops.

The four Scottish Universities - all ancient, venerable and still the first choice for the creme de la creme - were the usual destination for Scottish high fliers though some of the fee-paying schools gave the option of English exams with a view to Oxbridge. English universities would accept a good Leaving Certificate but, unless there were special course or family reasons, the traffic mostly came the other way particularly to the Medical Schools. (I've often wondered what keen students from south of the border thought when they applied to study medicine in St Andrews then found themselves in Dundee!)

Author:  Loryat [ Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

As a graduate from one of the four Scottish universities I agree that they do take the creme de la creme!

Why would people take History and Geography in Sixth Year? Was there just one exam and people were awarded Uppper/Lower marks, or did people actually sit different exams? Was this system in place in the twenties and thirties?

Sorry to be so off topic and sorry Shesings for bombarding you with questions! :oops:

Author:  shesings [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Sorry Loryat, I missed your posting until now. I am not sure about Geography but I have a vague feeling that, pre about 1963. Getting Higher History, and I am sure you needed Lower before you could take it, let you skip part of the First Year of the MA degree but at this remove I can't quite remember the details.

Next time I am in the vicinity of University Bio I'll mosey into the Archive Dept and see what they have on the subject. They did retain most of the original documents when they gained their release from St Andrews so I could find out what was required for entry in earlier times. They should also have details of the quota system that was still in full swing when I was considering university.

Come to think of it, University Byte must have some interesting material from those days when it was the Tech. They will undoubtedly have it all digitised but I am not asking them to email it. Last time I did that they sent me gigabytes of stuff that I had to wade through to get what I needed!

Doesn't CBB lead you down some interesting byways?

Author:  JS [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I'm fond of Highland Twins, despite the dreadful supposed Scottish accents, and even as a child I knew that girls didn't wear 'full Highland dress'.

I just wanted to stand up for Jo a bit. Yes, she broke down completely when she heard about Jack, but it's quite reasonable that she should do so. In a way, he was the only person, or rather, only adult, for whom she came first. She didn't know her parents and, although Madge and Dick loved her and, to an extent, arranged their lives around her, they had their own families which would naturally take priority. Then there was Jack, who loved her and whom she loved and with whom she was building the family she perhaps felt, deep down, she had never had. And then he was gone and in such circumstances.

Also, she had relatively recently given birth to triplets, had made two hair-raising escapes in a short-ish timeframe and, at a very young age, was running a house (albeit with the help of Anna) and responsible not only for her daughters but for sundry other youngsters too. All this and her husband was away and in danger. Also, there must always have been the sense that they themselves could get bombed at any point. Karl Linders' ridiculous stunt proves, if nothing else, that Nazi aircraft could have flown overhead.
I know that other women without Joey's privileges went through much the same and more, but she did have a pretty hard time of it.

On the war work front, my guess is that if anyone had raised the issue with EBD she would have hurriedly slotted in some retrospective stuff about how Madge was on this that or the other committee and Joey was running concerts to charm evacuees with her golden voice :D .
A bit like The Archers a few years ago when there was a massive storyline about one of the characters going to the Gay Pride march in London, while nothing at all was mentioned about the Countryside Alliance demo taking place about the same time. We were told a couple of episodes later that of course David and a couple of other people had gone to that :lol: .
I suspect it would be the same with Madge and Joey and war work.

By the way, really like Ariel's point much further up the thread that the second sight thing may have been used to reassure readers that everything would be okay. Hadn't thought of that.

Author:  shesings [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I think Highland Twins is almost the last time when I feel Jo had justification for a collapse (even as a bairn I thought the packing case episode in Goes to the Oberland was ludicrous!) She was also pregnant with Stephen at this time and the thought that Jack would not know the new baby and the new baby not know his/her father must have been desperately painful.

Author:  Nightwing [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I also think that it's completely reasonable for someone to have an emotional breakdown when they lose a loved one, war time or not! And I think Jo's breakdown over Jack is far less than some of her previous moments. What does she do? She goes to her room, goes into shock, and then starts to cry. That seems to be a perfectly natural reaction to me, all the more so when the news is unexpected.

As an aside, can anyone tell me what there was in the way of funerals/memorials for those who died during WWII? I'm sure some of our historians must know!

Author:  Alison H [ Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Actual funerals of those killed on active service would have been rare: the remains of those shot down in the skies or drowned at sea would have been almost impossible to recover, and most of those killed on land would have been buried in the military cemeteries. Many families arranged for memorial services to be held at home, though.

My great-grandparents held a memorial service for my great-uncle whom, as I mentioned, was a real life Jack and was reported drowned at sea but then turned up alive.

Given how much emphasis EBD put on organised religion, I'm always very surprised that we never see any religious ministers involved in times of grief. I know that Joey and Jack hadn't lived in Howells long so it wouldn't've been quite the same thing as seeing a priest who knew them well, but I'm surprised that there's no mention of the priest from the nearest Catholic church at least coming round to pay his condolences and ask if Joey did want to hold any sort of memorial service.

The school held a memorial service when Mlle Lepattre died, and I'd've thought that Joey would have wanted to do something along those lines for Jack.

Author:  Nightwing [ Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Thanks for the info, Alison!

I also think that it's strange, although I've never had much sense of how much time passes between when Joey finds out the Jack has died, and the twins overhear the news. Presumably not that much, because the school would undoubtedly be told sooner or later - he had a lot of nieces there, and the older girls would have known him from the Tyrol days. But Joey does seem to have recovered herself somewhat, so it can't have been just the very next day!

I suppose in terms of plot it would have been hard to fit in anything about Jo (or Madge and Jem in her stead) organising a memorial, though!

Author:  JB [ Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

It is surprising that the local priest isn't involved. The Maynards have been in Howells for a couple of years and a few months later, when Stephen is christened, they family appear to know the priest well.

If Jack was "missing, presumed dead", perhaps Joey didn't want a memorial service as it would suggest a loss of hope. I could quite see her digging her heels in and refusing to go along with one, particularly after the second sight incident.

The timescale for this plot line is confusing. I think there must only have been a few days between Joey hearing the news and the twins overhearing Simone's conversation, but you'd expect the Heads to have told the staff very quickly, as some of them are Joey's closest friends. We don't hear that the school are told at all and or that Joey has heard he's alive. His dramatic appearance at the play is great for a story but surely staff and family (Robin, Daisy, etc) would have known beforehand that he was safe.

I very much like this book but, on reflection, there's an awful lot packed into it. I'm sorry that Elisaveta disappears after this too.

Author:  Sunglass [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

JB wrote:
It is surprising that the local priest isn't involved. The Maynards have been in Howells for a couple of years and a few months later, when Stephen is christened, they family appear to know the priest well.

If Jack was "missing, presumed dead", perhaps Joey didn't want a memorial service as it would suggest a loss of hope. I could quite see her digging her heels in and refusing to go along with one, particularly after the second sight incident.


I think the relative absence of clergy of any denomination in major roles comes down to EBD's desire to focus on ecumenism and what the two school faiths have in common, rather than doctrinal differences. It's a pity in this case, because it would have been terribly interesting - even if EBD would never have considered writing it in a thousand years! - to see Joey, believing desperately in the second sight vision of Jack alive, pitted against the rules of Catholic doctrine on the evils of 'meddling' with the supernatural. I have no idea what Anglicanism has to say about 'second sight' - might there have been a situation, if Joey was in the middle of taking instruction as a Catholic when Jack was confirmed missing, that she was dealing with both the Anglican and Catholic position on an issue?

I can't imagine even a very sympathetic Catholic priest during WWII saying anything other than that such doings were dangerous and specifically forbidden by the Catholic Church - and EBD would never have wanted to show Joey at odds with a figure of church authority. I even think it's quite a radical moment that we see Bill, one of the triplets' godmothers, disapproving tacitly and staying away and praying about it. But of course, we don't know that Joey herself has converted yet, during this book - another instance of a probably deliberately vague timeline, like the timelag between the 'vision' and Jack's safe return.

I always think that just blurring dates and then producing him at the play is a slight cop-out, dramatic though it is that he makes his first 'on screen' reappearance to the CS at large. It just seems to me that it leaves out lots of other opportunities for extremely dramatic scenes - like the CS staff being told about his disappearance (and do Bill and Hilda tell them about the 'vision' of Jack being alive, or at least that Joey believes it?), and, given that we see Joey getting the appalling news he's missing, why not see her get the wonderful confirmation that the vision was right, by telegraph or however she would have been informed? Lots of opportunities for Joey to collapse all over again with sheer joy, and everyone to worry about how she's going to hold it together, and pathos when Jack comes home, but is still weak and ill...?

Author:  Cat C [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

I adore Higland Twins, but I feel like starting a support group for us poor souls who've read only the pb version...

And thank you very much for all the information about the Scottish exam system - I'll make time to go back and read it carefully, since it probably explains why there are (or at least were) a few 16 and 17 year-old undergraduate Scots about the place in English universities.

Quote:
According to a "memories of former students" article written by a lady on my old uni (Birmingham)'s website, when she started uni in 1930 prospective students were required to get 5 credits in their school certificate (which IIRC was the requirement for getting Matric rather than an ordinary pass?).


I wonder if this is equivalent to the modern matriculation requirement of 2 Es at A-level (unless that's now changed - I'm 10 years out of date)? It's not unheard of now for (eg) Trinity College Cambridge to give a 2Es offer prospective students of proven ability (such as they've competed in the national maths olympiad team) firstly because they really want to have them and secondly to prevent them collapsing under the strain of trying to achieve stella A-level results (which most of them manage anyway of course).

Author:  Mona [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Danger - Highland Twins at the Chalet School

Quote:
And thank you very much for all the information about the Scottish exam system - I'll make time to go back and read it carefully, since it probably explains why there are (or at least were) a few 16 and 17 year-old undergraduate Scots about the place in English universities.


It does! And Scottish Universities too. I started Uni at 17, after 6 years at secondary school. I had 4 unconditional offers and could have gone after 5th year, when I would have been 16(and a half). And my SLOC was 16 when he started, meaning he really shouldn't have been in the union bar for the best part of his first 2 years!

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