The CBB
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/

Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5863
Author:  Róisín [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Synopsis here.

How do you think Nancy Wilmot copes as head - do you think the lack of her great friend Kathy (who is out this term due to appendicitis) cost her some support? Do you think that the educational tour was a good opportunity for Miss Annersley - were you surprised that a side such as this existed for her career? What about the career of Stacie - highlighted here again as she steps in for some Chalet teaching? Jocelyn and Evelyn are the two new girls here; do you think that a character such as Jocelyn's has been done before by EBD, perhaps more than once? Other news in this book is Verity's impending motherhood - how do you think that limp Verity Ann of schoolgirl days would cope with having a family to run?

Please discuss any issue in relation to this book below :D

Next Sunday: Two Sams at the Chalet School
Author:  Alison H [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I don't know enough about the education system at the time to know how realistic Hilda's trip would have been, but I'm pleased that she gets the chance to do something which sounds so interesting, and also it's good to see EBD trying something different rather than recycling old plots. It's nice to see Stacie too, although slightly worrying that the school's immediate reaction is to bring in an old girl rather than try to find a temp (surely they would have been able to get a temp from somewhere, and it would have been a good opportunity to bring in someone Swiss).

Evelyn has the potential to become a good character, but she pretty much disappears after this book. Isn't there a remark somewhere about something causing problems later on which is never followed up on, or have I got that mixed up with something else? I don't really get Jocelyn: I never feel that I know her in the way that I know other "bad girls".

It's a bit worrying that Mary-Lou keeps hanging around the School/ the Platz rather than getting on with her life and career, but thankfully this is the last book in which it really happens: I'm sorry that Len gets tied to the Platz so young and would have hated to see the same happen to Mary-Lou. And I like to think that Verity reverted to being the strong character that she was when we first met her and coped brilliantly with motherhood :D .

The "Kathie, darling" moment tells us a lot about how close Kathie and Nancy are - don't want to go on about this too much because aspects of it have been discussed before at great length, but just wanted to mention it. I tend to call everyone "love", but that's just a local idiomatic thing and certainly doesn't mean that I love them all :lol: and we rarely see any terms like that used in the books unless addressing children. It's certainly a great shame for Nancy (and of course for Kathie!) that she has to cope with her most challenging term as a teacher without Kathie there.
Author:  Sunglass [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Evelyn is pretty unmemorable as a problem new girl, I think - maybe because she's not all that much of a problem, she just isn't particularly nice or interestingly nasty or at odds with the CS! She seems pretty much a less sharply written Joyce Linton, selfish, used to being somebody at her old school, and in denial about her mother's illness. But there are lots of little background details I like in this one, like the suggestion that Felicity Maynard is a determined and original character, and hearing that Miss Slater is now a headmistress of a county high school (and so entirely justified in leaving the CS, despite how nasty Rosalie Dene and Ruth Derwent were about it!), Miss Wilmot's absolute fear when Kathie Ferrars falls ill, and that Thekla von Stift and her family vanished in the war (and are potentially prominent Nazis hiding out in South America - well, that's how I read it!)


The originality of this one for me is the temporary replacement of Hilda not by a bad egg like Miss Bubb (surely her name must have been chosen to suggest Beelzebub???) but by a well-liked established character like Miss Wilmot. I think we get to see what must have been some of EBD's own past anxieties about the responsibility of running a school. But even though Miss Wilmot does fine, I find some of the responses to her being acting Head quite shocking! That opening scene where Hilda allows the triplets to discuss in front of her whether various mistresses are old enough or capable enough of doing her job - being quite dismissive of Miss Derwent and Margot saying Miss Wilmot is far too young! - is really inappropriate. I know it's holidays and Hilda is their de facto aunt, but it really isn't fair on Miss Wilmot that the Head allowed her to be auditioned in her absence by three teenagers who are, after all, still her pupils. I could understand if it were Joey offering her thoughts, but's not the triplets' job to appoint an acting Head for their school!

I like Miss Wilmot, and think she did a perfectly decent job in a difficult situation where everyone keeps saying she's a poppet but not Miss Annersley, but I wish she'd got more support from people other than Kathie! Matron should definitely not address any colleague, still less the acting Head, this way:
Quote:
“I want a word with you, Nancy,” Matron told the temporary Head after Frühstück on Saturday morning. Nancy Wilmot looked alarmed. She might be Head for the time being, but she had also been a pupil of the school [...]
“I want to know what’s wrong with Evelyn Ross,” Matey said, coming to the point with her usual bluntness. [...] 'We don’t want her to be ill. I certainly don’t! I’ve enough on hand without taking on unnecessary nursing!” [...]
O.K., Matey, I’ll see to it. Sorry I haven’t before, but life’s such a crowded affair these days I never seem to have a moment to myself. [...]
Matey eyed her scornfully. “Don’t be so childish! You’re talking like a sub-prefect landed with full prefect’s duties! Well, I’ll leave it in your hands. I must go. I’ve got a whole batch of new staff bed-linen to mark this morning and I can’t waste time listening to you moaning!”


How on earth did EBD mean us to read this scene? Matry being 'bracing' and knowing best? I mean, there was a huge kerfuffle when the villainous temporary Matron Thingie back in Tyrol days wouldn't call Madge 'Madame', but here you have a 'good' long-established character actively belittling an established and also 'good' colleague who is temporarily her boss! It's a moment of realism, I suppose, as Matey remembers Miss Wilmot as a schoolgirl, but lots of the staff remember other staff members as naughty Middles without actively undercutting their authority in this way! I suppose I find it shocking because it seems cruel of Matey to make Miss Wilmot, who is doubting her ability to deal with the demands of her job, feel even more incapable and juvenile...
Author:  MJKB [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Sunglass wrote:
Matron should definitely not address any colleague, still less the acting Head, this way:


I quite agree. I was quite shocked the first time I read that. There was absolutely no excuse for such brusqueness. They are usually the people who can't cope when the position is reversed. A friend of mine from school has recently become Deputy Principal and there is a subtle difference in the way I relate to her in school now. I respect her position and look upon her as my boss. Out of school it's different. She's a fantastic DP, btw.
One EBDism really bugs me. When Ms A is discussing Nancy with the trips she comments that their aunt Madge was only 26 when she founded the CS. She was 24 How could she forget that?
Author:  JB [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
This book used to confuse me as I always felt i'd missed something about Phil's illness, even though I always had these books in hardback.

I like Evelyn and I do sympathise with her. Also, she's one new girl I can forgive for not knowing about the French and German days. :)

Jocelyn is a paint by numbers naughty new girl and without any other characteristics.

I do like seeing more of Stacie and Felicity.

I found it amusing that everyone was so against an outside stand-in teacher was brought in - and the explanation as to who would cover which subjects was confusing. I don't believe a stand in would have such a problem if they were brought in simply to cover Kathie's lessons. Previous problems (eg Miss Bubb and the matrons in Tyrol) were partly because they had responsibility.

When we first meet Verity, we see how stubborn she can be. I think
she'd be a great parent, when she's able to do things in her own way and without Mary Lou breathing over her shoulder, urging her to be faster.

I think Matey's behaviour towards Nancy re Evelyn is appalling and, in any case, she would never have expected Hilda to deal directly with this. In previous books, she has taken aside pupils who were unhappy (Tom Gay) or things have been dealt with by prefects (eg Lavender). Or what the form mistress? They did seem a young Va - when Mary Lou, etc were this age, they would handled this themselves.

MJKB wrote:

Quote:
One EBDism really bugs me. When Ms A is discussing Nancy with the trips she comments that their aunt Madge was only 26 when she founded the CS. She was 24 How could she forget that?


This isn't a great book for consistency with ages. Felicity is 8 years younger than the triplets, although they were 10 when she was born (although I do appreciate this allows her to join the school when the triplets are still there). And Nancy Wilmot has de-aged considerably. In Tyrol, she's two or three years younger than Joey. The triplets are 18 during Challenge so Joey will be 39 or 40 in November, however Nancy is not yet 30. I guess this answers the question of the age gap between her and Kathie, who (if she's aged normally), will be 27.
Author:  Sunglass [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
JB wrote:
This book used to confuse me as I always felt i'd missed something about Phil's illness, even though I always had these books in hardback.


Yes - I'd forgotten this! I read it as a transcript, and thought at one point that the transcriber had missed a chapter, or I'd accidentally deleted a section! You sort of skip the illness itself and skip ahead straight to the relief and thankfulness etc, which reads quite weirdly because of the omission, especially given the series' emphasis on illness and close calls.

And the absolute refusal to countenance a substitute teacher is funny - I mean, clearly EBD wants to reintroduce Stacie (and it's great to see her again), but why not just say it would take too long/be too awkward to get a suitable agency teacher to somewhere remote like the Gornetz Platz, rather than all that huffing and puffing about it needing to be an Old Girl because an outsider won't understand staff-pupil friendships and delicacy? Really, it's getting to the stage where the CS is going to have to hope a significant percentage of its leavers become teachers in subjects where current CS mistresses are retiring or marrying, or it won't be able to staff itself!

Plus it's very weird that someone even suggests contacting Miss Slater, who left the school precisely because she hated the trilingualism, didn't want to leave the UK and was headed for a high-powered job in England! Not that hiring a delicate nearby classicist to be a junior maths and geography teacher, (on the sole basis that she was a good prefect, may have remembered her languages, and was 'quite good' at maths as a schoolgirl), makes a great deal of sense!

Also, what did people make of the thing it's implied Nancy Wilmot as acting Head does muck up - telling Evelyn about her mother's relapse, and sending her into lessons to 'occupy her mind' anyway? I find it slightly unlikely that someone as capable and sympathetic as Nancy wouldn't have dealt better with an upset girl, ditto Stacie, who after all lost her own mother at much the same age - and when Mary-Lou appears, to everyone's relief, the first thing she says to Evelyn, who is terrified her mother will never recover, is that her mother died of the same thing eighteen months earlier! I would have said it was the last thing Evelyn needed to hear!
Author:  Alison H [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I'm sure that sometimes EBD had storylines in her head and forgot that she hadn't told us about them! I read the books out of order first time round because some were much harder to get copies of than others, and I was sure that Phil's illness, Rolf Maynard's death and (as referred to in Carola) Biddy going to Australia must have been covered in books I hadn't read yet ... until I'd read all the books and found that they just weren't.

Do we know how old Hilda is at this point? I'm sure one of the Hilda experts can tell me :wink: , but I can't just think of a reference to Hilda's age. Nell IIRC is 30 in New/United, which would make her around 50 in Challenge. If Hilda was the same age, then although she was still 10 years off the standard British female retirement age her thoughts might have started to turn in that direction.

Whoever replaced her was set to have a really difficult time of it, as Nancy's experiences here show. They'd get "oh, but that's not what Hilda would have done" at every turn, and have to put up with comments like Matey's from people who'd been there for years and thought they knew best. I'm not sure whether it would have been better to promote a current mistress like Nancy (which I'm quite sure is what they would have done)/bring in another Old Girl or to bring in an outsider (am having exactly the same problem trying to decide what I think United'd be best doing when Sir Alex Ferguson retires :lol: ). I wonder if EBD'd thought about what would happen at such time as Hilda, Nell, Matey, Frau Mieders, Mr Denny and Miss Denny, who must all have been around the same age, retired. Replenish the staffroom with Old Girls, like Herr Laubach being replaced by Rosalind Yolland, presumably, but replacing Hilda would have been a very difficult job.
Author:  LizzieC [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Sunglass wrote:
JB wrote:
This book used to confuse me as I always felt i'd missed something about Phil's illness, even though I always had these books in hardback.


Yes - I'd forgotten this! I read it as a transcript, and thought at one point that the transcriber had missed a chapter, or I'd accidentally deleted a section! You sort of skip the illness itself and skip ahead straight to the relief and thankfulness etc, which reads quite weirdly because of the omission, especially given the series' emphasis on illness and close calls.


I'm another person who thought I'd missed something in this or previous books. It confused me no end and I briefly wondered if my GGBP edition had been misprinted. I would have been really interested in seeing Jack and Joey cope with Phil's polio. I think it would have been a really interesting addition to an otherwise average and formulaic book. In fact, it'd be something I'd be interested in seeing one of the drabblers here tackle.

*scatters bunny food, while cursing that it's too late to add it to the list of scenes to be drabbled in the latest challenge*
Author:  JB [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Alison wrote:

Quote:
Do we know how old Hilda is at this point? I'm sure one of the Hilda experts can tell me , but I can't just think of a reference to Hilda's age.


At the start of Challenge, Hilda tells the triplets that she was just turned 30 when she took over as Head. The triplets turn 18 in Challenge and if they were born around 3 years after Challenge, that'd make Hilda 51.

But please feel freee to point out the flaws in my maths/logic. :roll:
Author:  Sunglass [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
JB wrote:
Alison wrote:

Quote:
Do we know how old Hilda is at this point? I'm sure one of the Hilda experts can tell me , but I can't just think of a reference to Hilda's age.


At the start of Challenge, Hilda tells the triplets that she was just turned 30 when she took over as Head. The triplets turn 18 in Challenge and if they were born around 3 years after Challenge, that'd make Hilda 51.


I don't think there are any flaws in your logic, but we're told in Jo Returns that Hilda, who isn't yet Head at this point, had been a naughty Middle 'twenty odd years ago'. Depending on exactly what age you become a Middle at (help me out here, someone - I've always been vague on this!), that seems to me to be likely to make her a little older than thirty by the time she takes over as Head...? Not I suppose that it matters when exactly CS girls become Middles, as Hilda was a Middle at an entirely different school, but given that the 'naughty Middle' she's scolding at the time when we're told she was a Middle 20 odd years ago is 14 year old Polly Heriot, and the Middles are always seen as being at their maddest aged 14, I was assuming at this point that Hilda was around 34, give or take a year or two...?

Maybe's she's retrospectively massaging her age downward to make the triplets feel that Nancy Wilmot isn't in fact too young to be Head...? Or we're just in the Time Wrinkles of EBD Land...
Author:  JB [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Sunglass wrote:

Quote:
Maybe's she's retrospectively massaging her age downward to make the triplets feel that Nancy Wilmot isn't in fact too young to be Head...? Or we're just in the Time Wrinkles of EBD Land...



With this and Nancy's own lack of ageing, perhaps we've hit on the secret of the San. :lol:
Author:  Alison H [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
If Hilda was more like 54 or 55 in Challenge, then it was definitely time to start some "succession planning"! Mlle de Lachennais was (usually!) senior mistress but her main contribution to dealing with big issues seemed to be making the coffee, and Ruth Derwent was on occasion mentioned as being senior mistress instead but she's pretty colourless.

I'd like to've see Madge get involved and decide to shake things up by appointing a long-lost old girl or former mistress who hadn't gone along with school policy during her time there and would've walked in with a big hat or a veil obscuring her face so that no-one could see who she was at first and then dramatically revealed her identity to a chorus of shocked gasps (I spent too much time watching Dynasty in the '80s)*, but in all probability someone like Nancy would have got the
job ... and would have faced a whole load of problems unless a lot of the other older staff members retired at the same time.


*ETA - on reflection, this might work better if Madge decided that Hilda's retirement would be a good time to hand over her own responsibilities to Sybil, who then decided to take revenge on the CS for not making her Head Girl.
Author:  Sunglass [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
It hadn't even occurred to me that it was getting on for time to be thinking about Hilda's retirement...

Alison H wrote:
I'd like to've see Madge get involved and decide to shake things up by appointing a long-lost old girl or former mistress who hadn't gone along with school policy during her time there and would've walked in with a big hat or a veil obscuring her face so that no-one could see who she was at first and then dramatically revealed her identity to a chorus of shocked gasps (I spent too much time watching Dynasty in the '80s)


Nothing wrong with Dynasty. (I had a brief crush on the blonde gay Carrington son whose boyfriend Blake killed with an ashtray or something. :oops:) But this is a brilliant idea - the long-lost old girl has to be Thekla von Stift, miraculously reappearing with a blonde chignon, brilliant qualifications and Alexis Carrington shoulder pads, and with no intention of discussing where she's been since the war. Doing dastardly things like telling Matey she'll listen to her when Matey learns to speak politely to her, and abolishing the CS curtsey!
Author:  Aquabird [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Just to confuse the issue of Miss Annersley's age even more, I came across this quote from my PB of Carola

Quote:
Miss Annersley had not taught for twenty seven years for nothing.


So that would make her, what, at the very least about 48 or 49 in this book? She'd be about 60-odd by Challenge, going by that!
Author:  Tor [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Aquabird quoted:

Quote:
Miss Annersley had not taught for twenty seven years for nothing.


That does middy the waters (although presumably one could argue EBD is covering her back with the multiple negatives in that well-worn phrase! :wink: )

Hilda has done a fine job of guarding her true age! Perhaps she is ageing backwards, benjamin button style? (those eyes actually did need glasses, just a good 70 years earlier).

AS for a new head... I'd plump for Thekla, too! The minute I read Alison's post she leapt into my mind. But I reckon she'd wangle her way in by buying a majority stake in the limited company (slowly, over the years, she's been surreptitiously buying shares from the staff who needed a quick buck for various pass-times and to supplement their cream-cake allowance), before forcing a hostile takeover.

I like this book because it does something quite fun in making the running of school itself a plot focus, something not really done since the Tirol years. It's fun being involved in the 'business' side of things again - even if the business is so much bigger. The student storylines made very little impact on me, though.

Does anyone think that maybe EBDs books were, perhaps, rather brutally edited in this later era? Maybe the Phil Chapter was just hacked out? If not, then they were certainly poorly edited, to not have picked up on this major plot development not really being worked out properly. I spent ages waiting to find out wha had happened to poor Phil, thinking it must be in an earlier book (like aLison, I read everything in an ad hoc, as I got my hands on, it order... I like to think this provided me with excellent pattern recognition skills in later life)
Author:  Lesley [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
When writing Headmistress I worked out that Hilda was born in 1904, making her 40 when she finally returned to the CS after the bus accident. I also had her mother dying and her nearly getting expelled at school (ie naughty middle) when she was 13/14. By that reckoning she would therefore have been 32 when she first took over from Mdlle and still 32 when she was made Headmistress less than two terms later (birthday in May). The teaching 27 years when talking to Carola could be explained by the fact that Hilda was teaching Sunday School and when in the Sixth Form - so at age 43 (in Carola) could have been teaching from the age of 16.


That's my story anyway!!!! :wink:
Author:  Aquabird [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I'd always been under the impression that she was born circa 1904 (and Nell and Madge in 1906), so the Carola quote shattered all my illusions the first time I read it. I took it to mean she started teaching as soon as she graduated from university, aged about 21-22, hence she would be encroaching 50 in Carola. I like your explanation better though, Lesley! :lol:
Author:  Alison H [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I should know by now that there's never a straightforward answer to "How old is ...?" with EBD! I nearly tore my hair out when trying to write a drabble involving Sybil, who seems to remain 14 for over 3 years :roll: .

So that would make Hilda ... what, 54 by Prefects? At 3 books a year that would have given EBD another 18 books before she had to think about a new Head, assuming that Hilda retired at 60 (and I really hope that she left at the end of the term after her 60th birthday and rode off into the sunset to enjoy some well-deserved "me time", rather than being persuaded to stay on indefinitely :D ), but I still wonder if maybe the plotline of making Nancy, rather than an older mistress like Mlle de Lachennais, Acting Head suggests that she was wondering what'd happen when the Old Guard moved on ...
Author:  MJKB [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Alison H wrote:
but I still wonder if maybe the plotline of making Nancy, rather than an older mistress like Mlle de Lachennais, Acting Head suggests that she was wondering what'd happen when the Old Guard moved on ...


She might have considered a care taker Head Mistress until she felt the time was right for her to hand over to Nancy with, perhaps, Kathy as her Deputy. Mdle de Lenchennais might have her fifteen minutes of fame before the second generation take over.
Author:  Kathy_S [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
With all this talk of retiring at 60, I'm wondering when 60 became the normal retirement age in the UK?

I grew up under the system established here in the 1930s, under which 65 was the standard retirement age. Of course it's now been pushed back to at least 67 thanks to one of Congress' attempts to keep Social Security from going bankrupt, and there are threats of worse to come. This weekend I attended a workshop in which a speaker told us he now tells students they should count on working until they're 85!
Author:  macyrose [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
In Ontario until the end of 2006 there used to be a law that could force you to retire at 65. Now you can work forever if you want. Personally I'd like to retire as soon as I can. Everyone else at my library branch feels the same way so we keep on buying group lottery tickets and hoping that the next winners will be us. :D
Author:  jennifer [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I agree that Matey's dressing down of Nancy is totally inappropriate. It's just plain strange, too, as Miss Annersley is not prone to directly interfering in interpersonal conflicts within a form. In some cases the girls work things out themselves, in others it's a prefect or older girl who helps out. If anything, it's the form mistress, who sees the girls every day, who should notice and intervene if needed. Does Matey actually expect the headmistress's duties to include surveying the student body to notice girls who were not happy, investigating and personally intervening?

There are a couple of other weird things too. Miss Annersley discussing the fitness of various staff for the role of headmistress with the triplets (who are still students) is totally out of line. Then we have Joey spilling medical info all over the place again.

I find Evelyn's situation very realistic, even if she isn't a very vivid character herself. She was expecting to be top dog at her old school, and suddenly finds herself as one of the crowd, expected to hop to it when a prefect calls. She's also expected to enthusiastically throw herself into games, and is treated like a freak when she isn't enthusiastic.
Author:  Kathy_S [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
jennifer wrote:
Miss Annersley discussing the fitness of various staff for the role of headmistress with the triplets (who are still students) is totally out of line.

I'm not too uncomfortable with this, but that may be because I'm currently in a system in which students are regularly consulted on hires. In at least one recent search, the student advisory committee's recommendation resulted in a candidate's being axed. I would have expected consultation with the whole body of prefects rather than just the triplets, but of course the others weren't available.

I did think the assumption that Stacie would automatically acquiesce to teaching maths and geography was remarkably high-handed. It made a little more sense to me after she decried her current boredom, though, and at least she ended up swapping geography for classics.

In another area, does anyone else keep waiting for the other shoe to drop after the statement that Evelyn's "assumption that Jane belonged to her... was to cause trouble"? Did I miss it somehow? Or did EBD/her editors decide that plotline had been used a little too recently, but slip up while editing it out?
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Kathy_S wrote:
With all this talk of retiring at 60, I'm wondering when 60 became the normal retirement age in the UK?



It's currently 60 for women and 65 for men, but is going up to 65 for women too - boo!!!

State pensions came in in 1908 and were originally received from the age of 70. I can't remember when that was changed to 60/65 and when the idea of compulsory retirement in some jobs came in, but would guess that it was during the large parcel of welfare state reforms made just after the end of the Second World War - will try to remember to check.


ETA - the age was reduced to 65 in 1928, and to 60 for women in 1948. I think that the compulsory retirement idea also came in in 1948, because until then not everyone got a state pension, but presumably it wouldn't have applied to a private school.
Author:  Clare [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Sunglass wrote:

it really isn't fair on Miss Wilmot that the Head allowed her to be auditioned in her absence by three teenagers who are, after all, still her pupils. I could understand if it were Joey offering her thoughts, but's not the triplets' job to appoint an acting Head for their school!



And yet today it's the norm... 'Pupil voice' means that pupils play a part in the interview process for new staff, including senior management.
Author:  Nightwing [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Kathy_S wrote:
In another area, does anyone else keep waiting for the other shoe to drop after the statement that Evelyn's "assumption that Jane belonged to her... was to cause trouble"? Did I miss it somehow? Or did EBD/her editors decide that plotline had been used a little too recently, but slip up while editing it out?


Oh man, that irritates me so much every time I read Challenge!!! I assume that it's a plot that EBD considered, and then decided instead to go for the Jocelyn-in-a-snowstorm bit instead, but it always leaves me wanting to know more - especially since there's the whole run-up about Jane being especially nice to her, Jane's own friends not being impressed, and so on.

jennifer wrote:
I find Evelyn's situation very realistic, even if she isn't a very vivid character herself. She was expecting to be top dog at her old school, and suddenly finds herself as one of the crowd, expected to hop to it when a prefect calls. She's also expected to enthusiastically throw herself into games, and is treated like a freak when she isn't enthusiastic.


This actually makes me think of the first book in Enid Blyton's St Clare's series - don't the twins go through the same thing? Was this a popular storyline in GO, or just coincidence and pure human nature?
Author:  JayB [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Quote:
Then we have Joey spilling medical info all over the place again.

That does annoy me. I could see, perhaps, that Jack might think that Mrs Ross's illness was serious enough that Evelyn ought to be told. But it seems that it was all Jo's idea, and she shouldn't even have known the details of Mrs Ross's condition.

And if that wasn't bad enough, the way Jo does it is appalling - she just dumps the information on Evelyn without warning, when two thirds of her (Jo's) attention is elsewhere, then leaves Evelyn to deal with it on her own.

That said, this is perhaps my favourite of the last few books. EBD does try to do something different. I think Evelyn's character and her reaction to the situation she finds herself in is quite realistic. I think she is quite a successful attempt by EBD to write a slightly more modern type of girl. And I enjoy seeing more of Stacie.

Jocelyn is just the last in a long line of rebellious new Middles stretching back through Emerence to Cornelia. I don't find her interesting at all. EBD did need a Middles storyline to balance the focus on the staff and the seniors, with Nancy and Evelyn, but I wish she'd come up with a better one.
Author:  Sunglass [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Clare wrote:
And yet today it's the norm... 'Pupil voice' means that pupils play a part in the interview process for new staff, including senior management.


But isn't having some representative students (or however it works) with a legitimate voice in hiring new staff a bit different to a Head allowing three 'favoured' pupils to voice speculative opinions on established senior CS staff? It's not as though this is part of the Headship candidacy process, or that Miss Derwent. Miss Wilmot and Mlle have all decided to put in for the job and are being legitimately discussed with their knowledge by pupil representatives.

Especially given that the decision has already been made, one tends to wonder why Hilda encourages the triplets to discuss it freely in front of her. (I mean, other than EBD wanting to show us that her absence will be a gaping hole etc etc.) It just seems to me a moment when 'brevet aunt' comes too close to Headmistress, when I think her primary concern should be establishing her replacement's authority, rather than allowing it to be questioned by three influential seniors.

Maybe I'm over-reading it a bit, but I feel for Miss Wilmot, who has to exert authority in a term with staffing problems, and with her best friend ill and absent, Matey being undermining, and everyone comparing her to Hilda all over the place ... Knowing that the Maynard triplets were considering her too young and inexperienced would be the final straw!
Author:  JayB [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
The information has to be conveyed to the readers, but I think EBD could have done it differently. Maybe have the triplets discussing it among themselves after Hilda has told them the bare facts - that she's going to be away and Nancy will be taking over. Or have a similar conversation about the suitability of the various mistresses, but between Hilda and Nell, or Hilda and Madge, perhaps.
Author:  MaryR [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Thinking about Hilda's age, she does say in 'Excitements' that she came to the CS in her twenties, and had already had soem experience, so she could be anywhere from, say, 26-29. As she is slightly older than Nell, one tends to veer towards 28/29. So in 'Challenge', she would be very early fifties. (I have her as 58 in 1962 in ND!)

Alison H wrote:
]The "Kathie, darling" moment tells us a lot about how close Kathie and Nancy are - don't want to go on about this too much because aspects of it have been discussed before at great length, but just wanted to mention it. I tend to call everyone "love", but that's just a local idiomatic thing and certainly doesn't mean that I love them all and we rarely see any terms like that used in the books unless addressing children.

I would have said the same, Alison, but in fact Jo and Hilda call each other 'darling' when talking about Phil's illness, (not sure which book) and I've noticed it figures more in the adults' conversation near the end of the series. But I do concur that it shows a great deal about their closeness.
Author:  andi [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Clare wrote:

And yet today it's the norm... 'Pupil voice' means that pupils play a part in the interview process for new staff, including senior management.


Sorry, possibly a bit OT, but this sounds like an absolutely ghastly idea! Does it work in practice?
Author:  Sarah_G-G [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Can't speak from a staff point of view but I remember this happened when a new headteacher was needed when I was going into my final year of secondary school. Basically I knew a couple of the pupils chosen for said panel and as a result know that yes, they were consulted. Their opinion was also thoroughly ignored in my school as the man chosen was apparenly the only one they didn't like. :lol: :roll: At the time we thought it was incredibly unfair! Now I'm just not sure why they bothered with a student panel they clearly weren't going to listen anyway (and with some reason most likely, since none of them really knew what they were looking for a in a headteacher).
Author:  jennifer [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Clare wrote:
Sunglass wrote:

it really isn't fair on Miss Wilmot that the Head allowed her to be auditioned in her absence by three teenagers who are, after all, still her pupils. I could understand if it were Joey offering her thoughts, but's not the triplets' job to appoint an acting Head for their school!



And yet today it's the norm... 'Pupil voice' means that pupils play a part in the interview process for new staff, including senior management.


I think it's done with a bit more structure, though - having the prefects choose a couple of representatives to sit on the committee that discussed the issues, or collecting teacher evaluations at the end of the term from the students.

The way it's done here, though, is very gossipy, with the triplets chatting about the personality quirks of the teachers. It's more Auntie Hilda and the triplets than the behaviour of a headmistress. The same conversation with Joey I could buy, as she and Miss Annersley have had discussions at a similar level before.
Author:  Clare [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
It is a structured process, I think what I originally meant is that I wasn't overly surprised to find pupils discussing staff with staff. Representatives are chosen, and they ask questions and report to a member of the interview panel their thoughts about the candidates strengths and weaknesses, and whether they thought they'd fit into the school.

I think EBD could have done it better as others have said - have adults or the pupils discuss the issue, but not the triplets with the Head!
Author:  JS [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Quote:
With all this talk of retiring at 60, I'm wondering when 60 became the normal retirement age in the UK?


It's changing in the UK too. It was 60 for women and 65 for men, but that has been gradually 'merged' towards being 65 for everyone up to a certain age. Those of us who are a bit younger have had our state retirement aged adjusted upwards, so that I, born in 1966, am now expected to work until I'm 67 and a half, I think, before I get the state pension. Such as it will be by then :(
Author:  Simone [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I've just rushed off to check JS, as I was also born in 1966 - We will retire at 66 - it doesn't go up to 67 until 2034.

*is now upset that I have to work another year that I wasn't aware of*
Author:  JS [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Oh goodie, then I have a year less than I was anticipating. Thanks Simone :) Although being self-employed with a personal pension plan which has nosedived, I suspect that I'll be working until I drop!
Author:  Alison H [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
67 for me :( , but I suspect that by then the state pension will be worthless anyway. Just to be really gloomy and miserable :oops: !

Any CS mistress retiring would presumably, unless she moved in with friends or relatives with their own homes, have had to look to finding somewhere to live, and then buying furniture, cutlery, crockery and all the other stuff you need when setting up home - a lot of expenditure when you've just stopped earning.

I assume that they'd have put by a reasonable percentage of their earnings - although we don't know how much they earned (Hilda as Head would presumably have earned a fair bit more than the others), and although they had their bed and board provided they'd still have had to pay for clothes, toiletries and all sorts of other things. One of the mistresses says somewhere that they don't earn a lot, but that depends on what she classes as a lot. When Herr Laubach retired we were told that he had next to nothing, but he was an exceptional case as he must have lost his savings and most of his possessions when he left Austria.

Some of them, of course, would have had a "private income" too ...
Author:  MJKB [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
There seems to be an expectation that most middle class offspring would have some sort of private income. Kathie Ferris talks about her 'dividends', for example, and those without a pi, however small, are regarded as impoverised. In the CS, teaching is more about the joy of imparting knowledge to young minds than a way of earning a living.
Author:  Sunglass [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Yes, EBD seems to think it's slightly infra dig to have only a salary, even when it's not a teaching salary, but one from a higher-paid profession like medicine. (Don't we hear - in Joey's confidences about Reg's finances - that despite his lowly origins, he has means other than his medical income?)

I'd agree that it seems to be EBD shorthand for 'this person isn't in it for the money, but to save lives/mould young lives'...

Maybe also, in the case of the CS staff, a recognition that unmarried retired women without other resources/family are likely to find themselves in straitened circumstances? I always find the later Miss Bubb story very poignant - EBD looking at something that might have happened to her, without her writing career...? Do we know whether she become reasonably comfortably off?
Author:  Cat C [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
There's certainly that assumption in whichever of the La Rochelle books describes the Chester's financial problems - I forget how it's worded exactly, but there's a description about how they spent money on lots of things like a car for Ann that weren't extravagant if the money hadn't been mismanaged, but that now they had to manage on just the income from his practice they were pretty much paupers.
Author:  MJKB [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Good Lord! Was Beth Chester's father a GP? And me feeling sorry for their poverty!
Author:  Tor [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Yes, I think concepts of poverty are fairly relative!!!
Author:  Mel [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
When I was a child reading GO I wondered why we didn't have a cook like the children in books! I always get irritated that it is always 'somebody else' who mucks up the finaces e.g. Peter Chester, the Bettanys.
Author:  Alison H [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Joey talks about being "frightfully poor" at the end of School At :roll: .

Financial problems always seem to be caused by either other people, as Mel said, or external events e.g. the War. Just to go OT (sorry!), it amuses me in Exile when Jack thinks about what a good job it is that he got his money out of Austria when Jem told him to. Evidently, as well as being a super duper doctor, having contacts in Germany who are so much in the know that they can tell him when the Anschluss is about to happen and being able to speak fluent Afrikaans, Jem is also an expert financial adviser! Are there no limits to the man's talents :lol: ?
Author:  jennifer [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Yes, frightfully poor seems generally to mean no private income, and only able to one maid. In the beginning of School At, they do discuss their private income - '3000 pounds in East India Stock at 4 percent a year" which produces 120 pounds income a year.

I can see how it would be a shock, if you're used to private school and a housekeeper cook and a nanny and vacations abroad to suddenly find that you have to manage by yourself, but I still have trouble accepting 'living off a professional salary' as poor.
Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
interestingly, when I googled EBD tv appearance (on the off chance there was something out) following the thread on Class, a page came up that had a bit of EBD biog, and it states she (i) continued to live with her mother and step-father until her mother died and (ii) she worked as governess and in various schools in the west Midlands despite also being a full-time writer.

So either she didn't have than much income,despite her writing 'salary', and needed to supplement it, or she was a compulsive saver, or she felt the need to keep up a level of lifestyle that was above a one salary means. Anyway, it seems that maybe she couldn't live on her own earnings alone, so this may have flavoured her viewpoint somewhat.
Author:  JayB [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I know that these days very few writers, out of all those who are published, earn enough from their writing for it to be their sole income. And maybe she was the main breadwinner for the whole household, rather than just having to support herself?

Alternatively, writing is a very isolated occupation. Maybe EBD wanted to do something that would keep her in touch with the real world - and real schoolgirls. And maybe she just loved to teach, and didn't want to give it up entirely.
Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Quote:
Maybe EBD wanted to do something that would keep her in touch with the real world - and real schoolgirls. And maybe she just loved to teach, and didn't want to give it up entirely.


Yes, that could well be the case! It didn't even cross my mind, but then I am a very lazy person who wouldn't want to do any unnecessary extra work! :oops:
Author:  MaryR [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
MJKB wrote:
Good Lord! Was Beth Chester's father a GP? And me feeling sorry for their poverty!

But a lot of doctors were poor, relatively speaking, before the advent of the NHS. They didn't have a regular salary. They had to drum up their own patients, usually saw them in their house with wife acting as unpaid welcomer and book-keeper, and many patients couldn't afford very much, often paying in kind e.g. a chicken or something. Being a GP wasn't always a sinecure, by any means.
Author:  Cat C [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
MaryR wrote:
MJKB wrote:
Good Lord! Was Beth Chester's father a GP? And me feeling sorry for their poverty!

But a lot of doctors were poor, relatively speaking, before the advent of the NHS. They didn't have a regular salary. They had to drum up their own patients, usually saw them in their house with wife acting as unpaid welcomer and book-keeper, and many patients couldn't afford very much, often paying in kind e.g. a chicken or something. Being a GP wasn't always a sinecure, by any means.


I realise the school was in Switzerland by the time it happened, but it would have been interesting to have had a bit about the start of the NHS in the books - after all, even if it wouldn't have affected the san very much, there were certainly several daughters of doctors at the school.
Author:  Alison H [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
They were still in Britain in 1948, so they'd've been there for the very early days of the NHS. EBD doesn't seem keen on mentioning specific external events, other than in Exile, War and Highland Twins - no mention of the Abdication or of Indian independence - but she could have mentioned the impact of the NHS without "dating" the books too obviously, as it would have occurred over several years (if that makes sense!). It would have been interesting, as Cat said.
Author:  Cat C [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Alison H wrote:
They were still in Britain in 1948, so they'd've been there for the very early days of the NHS. EBD doesn't seem keen on mentioning specific external events, other than in Exile, War and Highland Twins - no mention of the Abdication or of Indian independence - but she could have mentioned the impact of the NHS without "dating" the books too obviously, as it would have occurred over several years (if that makes sense!). It would have been interesting, as Cat said.


Well, exactly - one of the characters mentioning how her father's job/income had changed 'since the NHS started' for example. Or Tom referring to the difference it had made in the places where she was working.

Has anyone ever tried writing about Tom's work in East London, incidentally? I would have thought that would be really interesting.
Author:  Kathy_S [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Lulie's 'Tom's Boys ' is the most detailed I can think of.
part 1
part 2
part 3
final part
Author:  Dawn [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
andi wrote:
Clare wrote:

And yet today it's the norm... 'Pupil voice' means that pupils play a part in the interview process for new staff, including senior management.


Sorry, possibly a bit OT, but this sounds like an absolutely ghastly idea! Does it work in practice?


Son Chris is head boy of his school and they were interviewing recently for a new Deputy Head who will also be Head of the 6th form. The poor candidates (including one internal one) had to have a full interview with the Head/goveners panel and then another one with the 6th form panel (head boy, head girl and I think 3 others). Chris chaired that and then reported back to the Head about who they thought should get the job and why. Their preferred candidate was the one offered the job.
Author:  MJKB [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Dawn wrote:

Son Chris is head boy of his school and they were interviewing recently for a new Deputy Head who will also be Head of the 6th form. The poor candidates (including one internal one) had to have a full interview with the Head/goveners panel and then another one with the 6th form panel (head boy, head girl and I think 3 others). Chris chaired that and then reported back to the Head about who they thought should get the job and why. Their preferred candidate was the one offered the job.

It hasn't reached that point in Ireland ....yet.Our school has just recently put together a Student Council but it' s pretty toothless so far. Representatives from the SC must, in partnership with the Parents Association (Which no one will join inspite of all our cajoling) and the Board of Management, must ratify the School Plan, which includes several documents such as the the Critical Incident policy, the Code of Discipline and the Guidance Plan. But so far there is no plan a foot to delegate responsibility such as the engagement of a senior teacher toa group of 17 and 18 year olds. I'd love to know how the whole thing works.

The nearest thing there is to student assessment is in what we call the 'grind schools' which are otherwise known as the tutiorial centres. THey are entirly funded by the private sector, there is no input by the Department of Education and Science. After each lecture an assessment sheet is passed round and it is largely on the basis of these AS that teachers are retainied or let go. Parents pay a monumental amount of money to have their children sit first time Leaving cert and repeat leaving cert in the expectation of increasing their children's grades in all subjects by 10% - 15% so that they get points for medicine, law, architecture etc. I taught in one of these centres for two terms and it nearly killed me with stress. But in spite the negative stats presented by the two main teachers unions, who are solidly against these centre, although their members are not too proud to use some of their teaching notes, I saw for myself an impressive increase in grades for students who had put the work in.
Author:  Abi [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
There's a lot of research to show that pupil voice can be really effective, but it does have to be implemented properly and obviously a lot of schools and teachers just don't have the time! There are many instances where it's had a really positive effect on pupils' confidence and self-esteem, especially when they get a say in things that are important to them, like the way that they learn, or the way the school day is structured, for example.

(Have been doing a load of research in the last few weeks for my mum, who's doing teacher training - totally fascinating!).
Author:  jennifer [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
And interpreting student evaluations takes some skill. I find students often tend to rank fun or very entertaining teachers highly, as well as ones who have personalities that are very engaging, while someone who is a very good teacher but a bit stiff or more formal will rank lower.
Author:  JennieP [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Don't get me started on (university level) "student evaluation". Our departments are crippled with anxiety about how the students rate each individual tutor/lecturer, which is all that management seems to care about. Not only are we ranked on how easy to understand we are, but our "ability to generate enthusiasm". As post-grad tutors get stuck with complulsory 1st/2nd year modules, and the bits of those that no-one else wants to teach because they are so boring, we get slated every time. (Rant over!)
Author:  Tor [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I had a lecturer who brought his evalutaion form summary into the lecture and proceeded to read out every personal comment made about him (yes, people were that mature) and explain how it had upset him.

He was an emotional little bunny, and whilst people thought he was being an idiot for doing so, I'm not sure any of the originators of the comments were ever so vicious about a lecturer again.
Author:  Karry [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
I have always presumed that the role of Senior Mistress was one of longevity, rather than actual rank, and was amazed that there was no Deputy Head position after Nell left, even though that was not actually stated her role was. In the schools I was in, and my kids, it was the deputy who stood in for the Head in cases of illness and also for secondment. Afer all, they were being prepared for the admin side of the job!
Author:  Fiona Mc [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
jennifer wrote:
And interpreting student evaluations takes some skill. I find students often tend to rank fun or very entertaining teachers highly, as well as ones who have personalities that are very engaging, while someone who is a very good teacher but a bit stiff or more formal will rank lower.


I think it depends on the age of the student. In the first 3-4 years of High School, I would say that happens by the bulk of students. However, by Year 11 and 12, students would rank better teachers higher. I had one English teacher in Year 11 whom everyone wanted him as a teacher as he was that good despite the fact he wasn't a popular teacher, personality wise. He was just that good and everyone wanted to do well in our final exams.

By Year 11 and 12 (GCSE & A levels) everyone tends to view teachers as will you help me get through my exams or not, rather than personality alone. I know we certainly had our Year 12 English teachers ranked into good and bad categories and it didn't matter how fun they may have been when we were younger, we were more worried about passing our exams
Author:  MJKB [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Books: Challenge for the Chalet School
Fiona Mc wrote:
By Year 11 and 12 (GCSE & A levels) everyone tends to view teachers as will you help me get through my exams or not, rather than personality alone. I know we certainly had our Year 12 English teachers ranked into good and bad categories and it didn't matter how fun they may have been when we were younger, we were more worried about passing our exams

That's what we find too. Another factor is proper structure and safety. Our school has disadvantaged status and the area in which it is situated is pretty notorious for its drug culture. Strong teachers make the younger students feel 'safer' in the classroom because they have firm classroom management techniques. The students know they will be protected, at least temporarily, from intimidating or bullying behaviours from other students.
Fifth and sixth year students definitely rank the strict, 'lets get down to work immediately' teachers much higher than the more laissez faire ones.Like adults, young people do welcome structure in their lives and this is particularly true if they come from chaotic homes. School becomes a haven of security and order. Good, firm but fair teachers may well become the most significant role models in their lives.
All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/