The CBB :: View topic - Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)

“By the late 1940s, the possibilities of the series had clearly been exhausted, yet the books continued to appear with dispiriting regularity.”

“Although the direct sociological content of the books had always been negligible, by the end of the series they had become absurdly anachronistic, and were no longer explainable even as a queer manifestation of contemporary taste.”

“The series was built up upon the character of Joey: once she is removed from the actual school environment, its weaknesses become apparent.”

“A serious weakness of the Chalet School series is the religious sentimentality which accompanies each episode of physical danger.”

“The continuing popularity of the series can be ascribed only to the fact that the idea of the Chalet School had taken hold of children’s imaginations to the extent that it was able to generate enthusiasm even for the boring intricacies of the old girl network and the second generation pupils’ family relationships.”

In the chapter “Anti-Soppists and Others” , Cadogan and Craig consider the historical context of the school story against the background of education for girls in real life before going on to look at certain authors and books in more detail (including the CS). They end the chapter by saying that, although some school stories are still available in paperback, they “are best read with sympathetic recognition that they are products of another era”.

“A serious weakness of the Chalet School series is the religious sentimentality which accompanies each episode of physical danger.”

“By the late 1940s, the possibilities of the series had clearly been exhausted, yet the books continued to appear with dispiriting regularity.”

“The series was built up upon the character of Joey: once she is removed from the actual school environment, its weaknesses become apparent.”

“A serious weakness of the Chalet School series is the religious sentimentality which accompanies each episode of physical danger.”

Personally, I don't necessarily find all the religious references annoying or unconvincing. There's a good many episodes where characters openly refer to their own faith or to Christian teachings when they are *not* in physical danger, so this thread runs through the story. I'd agree that it would be unconvincing if they only thought about God when stuck up a mountain in a blizzard, but for me this isn't the case !

“The series was built up upon the character of Joey: once she is removed from the actual school environment, its weaknesses become apparent.”

think that with any long series (books, TV, films, whatever) people will keep on reading/watching them because they want to know what happens to the characters rather than the institutions. Personally I love hearing about Old Girls, and wish we'd heard more about their children. The CS does grasp your imagination, though, with the lovely locations and the three languages and - of course! - the food, but I don't see why that should be regarded as a bad thing.

Its sogginess is the inverse of the bracing, outdoor spirit which they urge upon their readers

I think what people are forgetting (possibly due to the 'jolly' title) is that this is a more or less academic work of criticism, one of the first to take a traditionally denigrated and 'feminine' genre like the school story seriously.

it's tone doesn't come across as academic.

...there doesn't seem to be a single GO book they actually approve of. They're all painted as stupid and stultifying. I mean, if you hate Anne and the Abbey girls and Laura Ingalls Wilder and Swallows and Amazons and the CS - why bother?

Author:	JB [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
This is the first in a series of discussions of books about school stories over the coming months. You’re a Brick, Angela by Mary Cadogan and Patricia Craig was published in 1976, a study of girls’ fiction from the end of the nineteenth century to the 1970s. A postscript to the 1986 Gollancz reprint takes us into the 1980s. The authors say they have tried to “relate each book discussed to the context of its own time and also to indicate how it is regarded now”. You’re a Brick, Angela was reprinted by GGB 2003. In the new preface to this edition, the authors said that although the book was a work of criticism, it was also intended as an homage to the iconic books of their childhoods. They acknowledged that while they may have been “slightly tough on or frivolous about” school stories, they did present the genre as worthy of consideration by critics and historians. In the chapter “Anti-Soppists and Others” , Cadogan and Craig consider the historical context of the school story against the background of education for girls in real life before going on to look at certain authors and books in more detail (including the CS). They end the chapter by saying that, although some school stories are still available in paperback, they “are best read with sympathetic recognition that they are products of another era”. In the postscript from 1985, they comment on the “surprising” resurgence in the popularity of girls’ school stories. I’ve given some questions below but please feel free to discuss any aspects of this book. If you’ve read You’re a Brick, Angela, what do you feel about the authors’ approach to school stories and EBD in particular? Do you feel they treated them sufficiently seriously? Do you they feel they have any affection for the genre? If you haven’t read the book, please do tell us whether you agree with the quotes about the CS below: Quote: “By the late 1940s, the possibilities of the series had clearly been exhausted, yet the books continued to appear with dispiriting regularity.” Quote: “Although the direct sociological content of the books had always been negligible, by the end of the series they had become absurdly anachronistic, and were no longer explainable even as a queer manifestation of contemporary taste.” Quote: “The series was built up upon the character of Joey: once she is removed from the actual school environment, its weaknesses become apparent.” Quote: “A serious weakness of the Chalet School series is the religious sentimentality which accompanies each episode of physical danger.” Quote: “The continuing popularity of the series can be ascribed only to the fact that the idea of the Chalet School had taken hold of children’s imaginations to the extent that it was able to generate enthusiasm even for the boring intricacies of the old girl network and the second generation pupils’ family relationships.”

Author:	fraujackson [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
There's a lot I want to say here, but I'll start with the 'religious'/'moral' element, which was always important to me when I was a child, and is still a big part of my interest in the books. JB wrote: In the chapter “Anti-Soppists and Others” , Cadogan and Craig consider the historical context of the school story against the background of education for girls in real life before going on to look at certain authors and books in more detail (including the CS). They end the chapter by saying that, although some school stories are still available in paperback, they “are best read with sympathetic recognition that they are products of another era”. Quote: “A serious weakness of the Chalet School series is the religious sentimentality which accompanies each episode of physical danger.” If the authors want us to accept the former assertion, then the onus is surely on them to accept the latter as a part of a 'product of another era.' Religious/moral education was much more overt up to the end of the 1940s, at least, and children's books would reflect that as much as 'adult' novels of the period are also more likely to have some overt scriptural/moral reference in parts. (I'm thinking of Villette as I write, but I know there's other, later, examples.) It's also clear from the series that (Christian) faith was immensely important to EBD, and her writing content and style reflect that. It seems unfair to reject an individual author's content as a weakness out of hand without reference to her personal focus as referenced through the underlying 'intentions' of the content in question: one may as well say that it's a great weakness of Dickens that so many of his characters live in poverty and undertake long and wearisome journeys, without thinking about what those journeys or descriptions of poverty might be supposed to represent or alert the reader to. I've not put that very well, but will try to come back to it later. Really what I mean is that the 'religious' content may well have been more immediately relevant to the readers at the time than it is now, and as a major component of EBD's own world-view it can't be ignored or dismissed. Personally, I don't necessarily find all the religious references annoying or unconvincing. There's a good many episodes where characters openly refer to their own faith or to Christian teachings when they are not in physical danger, so this thread runs through the story. I'd agree that it would be unconvincing if they only thought about God when stuck up a mountain in a blizzard, but for me this isn't the case !

Author:	ChubbyMonkey [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
Tell me I'm rushing to the defence of a well-loved story without thinking about, but those quotes made me bristle with anger, so to speak! JB wrote: “By the late 1940s, the possibilities of the series had clearly been exhausted, yet the books continued to appear with dispiriting regularity.” Well, the mere fact that they did continue to appear surely shows that the potential hadn't been exhausted! People wouldn't have bought them and they wouldn't have been published otherwise. Perhaps they lose some of their originality and the sparkle that made them so brilliant, but they still manage to bring up interesting discussions, and as much as we might mock them we do seem to re-read them as logically thinking adults on a regular basis. Quote: “Although the direct sociological content of the books had always been negligible, by the end of the series they had become absurdly anachronistic, and were no longer explainable even as a queer manifestation of contemporary taste.” Again, the authors are picking on the end of the series. I'm sure we'd all be prepared to own that it isn't our favourite part of the books, but the very fact that they have to bring up the end of it so much shows how strong the rest of the series must have been. Quote: “The series was built up upon the character of Joey: once she is removed from the actual school environment, its weaknesses become apparent.” Not at all. After Joey we get some equally strong schoolgirls who keep the school side of it interesting and engageable - Joey just provides the glue of the series! I'm thinking of people like Daisy, Bride, Tom, even OOAO (for those, unlike me, who like her!) Quote: “A serious weakness of the Chalet School series is the religious sentimentality which accompanies each episode of physical danger.” To which I can only say that I agree thoroughly with fraujackson. Quote: “The continuing popularity of the series can be ascribed only to the fact that the idea of the Chalet School had taken hold of children’s imaginations to the extent that it was able to generate enthusiasm even for the boring intricacies of the old girl network and the second generation pupils’ family relationships.” Well, whatever it can be ascribed to, it's continuing popularity proves that it was a good series, IMHO, and is something now bad for taking hold of children's imaginations? In which case, I suggest, we should also be dismissing people like EB, whose books were also similar to the point, sometimes, of repetitiveness, so that it could only be the firing of imagination which kept them so popular. Sorry, I shall retire quietly now

Author:	Nightwing [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
fraujackson wrote: Personally, I don't necessarily find all the religious references annoying or unconvincing. There's a good many episodes where characters openly refer to their own faith or to Christian teachings when they are not in physical danger, so this thread runs through the story. I'd agree that it would be unconvincing if they only thought about God when stuck up a mountain in a blizzard, but for me this isn't the case ! I agree with you completely, and I say this as someone who identifies as atheist. I do think that EBD's religion gets a bit heavy-handed in the later books, but in the original School at when Grizel says Our Father while trapped on the Tiernjoch, in comes across as completely natural - even today, in fact. It makes perfect sense to me that a girl in her situation would think to pray, and to say a prayer which would be so familiar to her. Grizel isn't, I don't think, a particularly devout character, but it's hardly unnatural for a Christian to pray to God when they think they are about to die. And considering that there is a life-or-death situation in almost every book, I can only think of two other occasions where religion is a factor during the "episodes of physical danger" - one, in Trials, where faith and belief is very much a theme of the book, and the other in the book where Jack and co. get lost and again say Our Father - which is something I do think was over the top. Quote: “The series was built up upon the character of Joey: once she is removed from the actual school environment, its weaknesses become apparent.” I disagree with this, definitely. I don't think the English books are weak at all, and I think the reason that the Swiss books become weak is not simply because Jo wasn't at school any more! Quote: “The continuing popularity of the series can be ascribed only to the fact that the idea of the Chalet School had taken hold of children’s imaginations to the extent that it was able to generate enthusiasm even for the boring intricacies of the old girl network and the second generation pupils’ family relationships.” I can't agree with this, either. The first books I read as a kid were the holiday books, and I didn't even realise that they were part of a school series - to me, they were more reminiscent of Little Men or the Anne of Green Gables books. And I've never found the intricacies of the old girl network boring - it's always a delight to hear about favourite characters after they've left school! I think this statement woefully underestimates EBD's ability to write interesting, lively, human characters, which to me is one of her strong points. It was never about "the idea of the Chalet School" for me - it was about the children and adults who lived in the Chalet World.

Author:	Lesley [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
So if the authors acknowledged they may have been 'slightly tough' I hate to think what they would have sounded like had they really been very tough. As far as I can tell from the quotes above, they don't appear to have a good word to say about the series. Not a book I would want to read - though it must have been good for GGBP to arrange for a reprint and watch them have to write a new preface through gritted teeth!

The CBB http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/

Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig) http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7197

Author:	Abi [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
It's quite some time since I read this, and I think I enjoyed it at the time. Cadogan and Craig are fairly hard on the school story, but it was the first time I'd ever discovered a book about the books I liked, so I was very excited about that. I do think they look at the books very much from their own time and have the attitudes of the time. They don't allow much for the fact that attitudes and acceptable writing for children were very different at the time when EBD and others were writing. Some of the points they make do have a certain justice - from a modern point of view, there is too much religion, too much prescriptivism (if that's a word!) and there are parts that might read as sentimental to someone unaccustomed to that style of writing, which most of us on this board are! But they obviously have a sort of 'Golden Age' point of view: the views and attitudes of the time we live in are the ultimately correct ones, and anything that came before was flawed and just leading up to this. I actually think that now the books, or at least people's love of them, are far more acceptable. We have a far more open attitude to people being different from us and searching in different ways for enjoyment as we move into the Postmodern era. Cadogan and Craig, on the other hand, are very much modernist, emphasising conformity to certain values (as indeed was EBD herself, and other GO writers). Sorry, I seem to have got a little off topic, so will now shut up.

Author:	Alison H [ Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
Without wanting to sound too much like a GCSE history student who's been told that they've got to waffle on about bias and prejudice affecting source material , this was written in the mid-70s when it was fashionable (for lack of a better word) to denigrate GO books, Enid Blyton books and anything else along those lines, so I think it's as much a product of its times as the early CS books are. I certainly don't think that the series declines after Joey leaves school. I do think that strong central characters are needed - not necessarily one heroine, because the British books manage quite well without one - and it's arguable that there's a decline after Mary-Lou leaves, because we then get people we know very little about (hands up everyone who can name all the members of "The Crew") appearing and then disappearing, but I think that trend might've been reversed once Ailie's gang and then Jack's gang got to the prefects stage. There's no way that the series hangs on Joey in the way that, for example, the Dimsie books hang on Dimsie, though. I think that with any long series (books, TV, films, whatever) people will keep on reading/watching them because they want to know what happens to the characters rather than the institutions. Personally I love hearing about Old Girls, and wish we'd heard more about their children. The CS does grasp your imagination, though, with the lovely locations and the three languages and - of course! - the food, but I don't see why that should be regarded as a bad thing. Re the sociology quote, the CS is only ever set in a definite time period during the war years: it's not meant to reflect the reality of any particular time. The Tyrol books are certainly much truer to the 1920s and 1930s than the Swiss books are to the '50s (and it then gets complicated because the books were still in the '50s by 1970, if you see what I mean!), and modernisation attempts such as the spaceship storyline don't work, but the books aren't meant to be a lesson in history or sociology. I do have to say that the religious references do grate on me in the later books. I want to scream every time I read Mary-Lou's thoughts on and comments about Naomi's family's agnosticism, and I don't find it realistic than an intelligent girl in her late teens would be so wholly unable to accept someone else's viewpoint. It's not so bad in the earlier books, but EBD does get very preachy in some of the later books. However, I wouldn't say that "religious sentimentality" plays a big part in every episode of danger. There are a lot of episodes of danger in the books , and only a few of them include overt references to faith or prayer. & Grizel saying her prayers on the Tiernjoch when there's nothing else she can do seems very realistic to me. Sorry for the essay . Should probably go to bed ...

Author:	DuncanD [ Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
Don't say "Sorry for essay" - interesting essays are what I read opinion-type threads for!

Author:	ammonite [ Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I can't think of any book mentioned in 'Your're a Brick, Angela' that actually has only positives written about it. It makes me wonder what their ideal of the girls book of each genre was. Quote: think that with any long series (books, TV, films, whatever) people will keep on reading/watching them because they want to know what happens to the characters rather than the institutions. Personally I love hearing about Old Girls, and wish we'd heard more about their children. The CS does grasp your imagination, though, with the lovely locations and the three languages and - of course! - the food, but I don't see why that should be regarded as a bad thing. I think that it is partly that reason although I do like the way EBD keeps winding the plot around the Chalet School as you do want to hear what happens to the school and how it changes and adapts. At least I do. It stops the series eding up like the EJO Abbey Girls series, which I love, but which starts of as a school series and ends up just about the characters with the school being incidental. The Chalet School books for this reason do keep going and can as we see with fill ins and drabbles. The introduction of the new characters stops the series going stale. I think the religious references do have a place in the book and are of the time it was written. But they are not such overt religious references as some of the books of the time. Even EJO occasionally devotes chapters to it. Where Cadogan and Craig say Quote: Its sogginess is the inverse of the bracing, outdoor spirit which they urge upon their readers I disagree. The religious bits do add a different dimension to the book and stop us looking at the characters as very one dimensional and instead bring them to life by showing depth. Also 'Sogginess' what a word to use in the context. Actually what a word to use anywhere!

Author:	hac61 [ Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I remember disliking them when I first read the book, and from the quotes given I still dislike them. I've always wondered why the GGBP reprinted it since it was so clearly against the sort of books they publish.

Author:	trig [ Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I haven't read the book and shan't now - I mistakenly thought it was a celebration of girls' school story fiction. As others have said, the criticisms themselves are now dated - I think the 70s was a decade when anything remotely middle-class biased or religious was universally denigrated. The only part I remotely agree with is the religious aspect. I was brought up in a quite religious household and even to me the religious bits in any of the books have always been embarassing. But they are easily skipped and in no way impinge on the story.

Author:	Cosimo's Jackal [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I think what people are forgetting (possibly due to the 'jolly' title) is that this is a more or less academic work of criticism, one of the first to take a traditionally denigrated and 'feminine' genre like the school story seriously. It's less of a 'celebration' from a fannish point of view as such than an attempt to look at GO as a mode of writing for and by women/girls, about women and girls. That was a comparatively radical thing to do in 1976, when the focus in academic criticism was still very much on the 'classic' literature of the canon, which was still hugely imbalanced in favour of Male Writing About 'Important' Topics. In many ways Cadogan and Craig were way-pavers for conceiving that a 'feminine' popular form was worth writing about. And I think that part of what some people up the thread are complaining about as their relative 'harshness' towards the material comes from their knowledge that the stuff they were writing about was considered utterly frivolous and unimportant by the literary establishment. (But I think Alison H is also completely right about the prevailing attitude towards certain trends in children's writing in the 70s.) Now you get a lot of well-respected academics in English Literature/Film/Media Studies departments writing on children's literature/romance/film and TV pop culture, and there simply isn't the same stigma to treating popular material seriously. I have to say, hand on heart, as a fan of the CS for thirty years, that I can't disagree with the thrust of most of the quotations, fan though I am! I agree the series becomes absurdly anachronistic, and relies heavily on a child reader being already interested enough, as the series continues, to be automatically prepared to care about the birth of the thousandth baby to an Old Girl. I think that the increasingly artificial presence of adult Joey, who keeps moving around with the school, suggests EBD knew herself that the series had lost much of its appeal without her, but was never able to come up with an equally appealing schoolgirl replacement (because she still cared too much about her original creation, Joey?) And I agree (despite being a lifelong Catholic) in finding the much of the religion intolerably saccharine. Yet, despite this, I continue to read and love the CS, while acknowledging its faults! I think it's possible to be critical while also being affectionate, as we do here on the board all the time, every time we complain about the Swiss books, or roll our eyes about EBDisms.

Author:	JB [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
Cosimo's Jackal wrote: I think what people are forgetting (possibly due to the 'jolly' title) is that this is a more or less academic work of criticism, one of the first to take a traditionally denigrated and 'feminine' genre like the school story seriously. One of the things which I dislike about the book is that it's tone doesn't come across as academic. As the authors themselves say in the 2003 preface, it's combination of tough and frivolous, and I don't find they sit well together. Sorry I haven't time to quote now (will try to later) but their generation description of the CS is silly and giggly, mixed with the criticisms they make earlier. I don't feel they take the genre at all seriously and that's a shame. It feels almost as though they are laughing at themselves before anyone can laugh at them. I understand that it's very much of its time and a good thing about the book is that it did pave the way for other people to write more seriously about the genre. And, of course, school stories form only a small part of the book. It is fascinating to read about the history of girls' fiction.

Author:	mohini [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I read the quotes here but I usually do not bother to read about what critics or newspaper say about books which I have read. It gives me a new perspective. OT I liked, no in fact, loved ( still do ) Enid Blyton and was never bothered about anything mentioned in the books. When I read about Enid Blyton in a short Biography, I was surprised to read that some people found the books very racists. They did not like words like Golliwog etc.It wa safter that, I found myself searching for these things in the books. It nearly spoiled EB for me. I feel it is a matter of personal opinion how and what you imbibe from a book. I used to feel that CS books are religious so much so that whenever I went to search for these books in market, I used to visit a shop where they sold religious books. I was hopeful I would get CS there. Each one has his or her own way of interpreting a thing. I hope I am not totally OT.

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Author:	Alison H [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I agree, Mohini. I used to love the Noddy books when I was very little and it never occurred to me to think that the golliwogs presented any racial group in any particular way, that women were meek and feeble because Noddy told Tessie Bear that he'd look after her or that Big Ears was a dirty old man because he shared a bedroom with Noddy! Unfortunately it does seem to be acceptable to attack some genres of literature/drama. If a TV soap opera did a storyline in which someone collapsed in the middle of nowhere and was rescued by someone who turned out to be their long-lost cousin whom they had no idea even existed, critics would pull it to pieces, but it's OK for Charlotte Bronte to do it in Jane Eyre (which I love) . The amount of religious sentimentality Little Women (which I also love) makes that in the CS look mild by comparison, but people don't mock that. Some genres are considered much more open to attack than others. Hope that makes sense .

Author:	mohini [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
The authors write about what they have seen or were taught. So what was modern at the time of publishing of that book would be old fashioned in today's world. So the books must be read keeping that in mind. Maybe after 100 years girls reading CS may exclaim "The girls went to school at that time . How Quaint!"

Author:	Nesomja [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I think it's easy to bristle at quotations taken out of context, but I think this book is an entertaining read and whilst their claims shouldn't be taken as gospel they offer their own perspective on a whole range of girls' fiction. I found this book when I was about 17 and was fascinated by it - the first and only book I have read which talks seriously about books like the Chalet School. I have read it several times since and seeing this thread prompted me to read it again. Cadogan and Craig seem to me to be very affectionate towards the GO genre as a whole (why else would they have initiated this project at all?) and they are particularly looking at what the books tell us about society's expectations of the role of girls at the time they were written. They make valid points about the way that the series remains focused around Joey and the difficulties which EBD (and other authors at the time) had in allowing their main characters to grow up. They also make links with other authors at the time - for example, EBD is not the only one to indulge her grown up characters with huge families and multiple sets of twins - C&C ask why it is that girls in popular books at the time had to grow up to be such prolific mothers and also what assumptions about the role of girls/women were being perpetrated in CS and other books at the time. I think this is a genuine celebration of GO books. It does the books the service of looking at them seriously and discussing them in context. If you are looking for a fannish adoration of GO books, don't bother reading it. If you're looking for a thought provoking exploration which you will not always agree with, then you might enjoy it. But I wouldn't start criticising it on the basis of the above quotes, they don't do the whole book justice.

Author:	Tor [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
Hi Nesomja - welcome to the CBB! I haven't read 'you're a brick', but am rather keen to - and you've just given me a little extra push to go and find a copy (.... once, and only when, I have submitted my thesis ). I'd be really interested in hearing more about what C&C had to say on the GO heroine and motherhood, for example - do they mention the CS much in relation to this, or is it focussed on other GO titles? I am wondering whether the quotes supplied are the only one about the CS (which is interesting, as it might mean the CS was singled out by C&C as a series they felt less kindly about, if you get what I mean). As someone who rather loves the CS, and feels very protective about it, but knows in my heart-of-hearts that it doesn't really stand up to adult scrutiny on a number of things , I think I'd really enjoy a gently teasing, affectionate, but still open-eyed exploration of the GO genre.

Author:	JB [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
There's one chapter in You're a Brick which talks about school stories and there are other refererences throughout the book eg the chapter on Guides mentions the CS and so does the section on Ruritania. I don't think it talks much about motherhood, Tor. It's a book about quite a wide variety of books, rather than strictly Girls Own. For a more serious (yet very readable) study of Girls On fiction in the context of the role of girls and women in society, i'd recommend A World of Girls and A World of Women by Rosemary Auchmuty (which we'll be discussing in a few months). IMO, they are much of a celebration of the genre, along with fascinating social history. They hit the middle ground between the flippancy of C&C and the over-serious tone of some other writers (eg was it Ju Gosling who said that EBD had failed in some way by not talking about menstruation?). ETA - I really didn't intend to present a negative picture of the book but I struggled to find anything positive in the school story chapter.

Author:	Nesomja [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I agree there's not much positive about school stories - CS isn't particularly singled out for vitriole, they poke fun at most of the genre - there's more about the Abbey series than about CS and the tone is similar. Books they really hate don't get teased in the same way - 'Pollyanna' or Enid Blyton being a prime example. The most positive it gets about CS is I think is the bit where they talk about heroic girls, and Elisaveta being ready to climb down a mountain 'in only her royal knickers'. Can't remember the chapter though and am too tired to look it up! However as someone said, it is mostly quite flippant in tone and isn't really about giving praise. Thanks for the reference for the other book, will go away and look it up!

Author:	KatS [ Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
I just read this this afternoon - I have to agree with the others: there doesn't seem to be a single GO book they actually approve of. They're all painted as stupid and stultifying. I mean, if you hate Anne and the Abbey girls and Laura Ingalls Wilder and Swallows and Amazons and the CS - why bother? Just about the only books they write positively about are the William books, which seems a pity. Although it does move along faster than Rosemary Auchmuty, who I found somewhat boringly repetitive although more sympathetic to the books she was writing about.

Author:	Nightwing [ Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
KatS wrote: ...there doesn't seem to be a single GO book they actually approve of. They're all painted as stupid and stultifying. I mean, if you hate Anne and the Abbey girls and Laura Ingalls Wilder and Swallows and Amazons and the CS - why bother? OK, I'm dying to ask - what don't they like about the S&A books? They're an old-fashioned type of adventure story, but Ransome does a number of things very well, including having working class boys as part of the gang in the Coot Club books and having girl characters who are not only tomboys (Nancy) or traditional mothering types (Susan) but those who aren't one or the other or have a foot in both camps.

Author:	KatS [ Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Books About the CS: You're a Brick, Angela (Cadogan & Craig)
Oh, they're described as whimsical and having an excessive emphasis on boats and sailing, juxtaposing scientific boys with romantic girls (in the characters of Dick and Dot), unfortunate jokes about Titty's chest... But to be fair they are much more balanced about them than many of the other books they discuss, saying the humor is "sedate and low-key", they have a "fairly subtle central objective" and that they appeal equally to children of both sexes.