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Themes: Adolescence
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Author:  Róisín [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Themes: Adolescence

Given that references to the physical side of adolescent are completely absent from the books, what do you think of the way EBD showed the maturation of girls from mischevious junior middles to responsible seniors? Were the trials of adolescence and teenage trauma shown or glossed over?

Author:  macyrose [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:19 pm ]
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I thought that this: Adolescence & Sexuality (in the world of the Chalet School) might add to the discussion.

Author:  patmac [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:49 pm ]
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I don't think adolescence was discussed at all in the period the books covered - certainly not in public - and Ju Gosling's account is very true, especially Jack Maynard's explanation to Mary-Lou. Girls (certainly of the 'class' who paid for their girls to attend a good school) led very sheltered lives and were kept young lest they attract MEN - no reliable contraception, remember!

I think the ages of the readers was important as well. Malcolm Saville was the only author I can think of who allowed any hint of romance to enter into his series, and that was in the late fifties or early sixties.

As for menstruation, 'the curse', 'the monthlies' all euphamisms of the time, I knew girls who were totally hysterical at their first experience, having had no preparation and thinking they were dying. Unbelievable today but EBD was totally in keeping with her times on this subject.

Reliable information from other girls included the fact that babies came out of their mothers' belly buttons and that you could start a baby by a certain kind of kiss. :twisted: I leave the kind of kiss to your imagination!

Author:  JayB [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:12 am ]
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I think EBD dealt with some aspects of adolescence quite well. She often has adult characters mentioning that the early teens are an awkward stage. She shows the cliques, the fallings out, the big dramas over nothing, the moods, the jealousies, which happen among groups of young girls. Jo's resistance to growing up, Betty and Elizabeth's growing apart, Jack Lambert's moodiness, I think are all realistic representations of teenage girls. (And no doubt I could think of more examples if it wasn't one in the morning.)

Of course there are other aspects she ignores, but mostly they just weren't relevant to the stories she wanted to tell, and so she didn't waste words on them, just as she didn't waste words on telling us that they went to the toilet.

Author:  Alison H [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:34 am ]
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I don't think that EBD really could have mentioned the physical aspects of adolescence in the time and genre in which she was writing. However, there are numerous references to how even the meekest juniors become "naughty" once they become Middles, and how they then mature into Seniors. As JayB says, she portrays teenage angst, for lack of a better expression, quite well - people not wanting to grow up, friendships changing, some people being more "grown up" than others, people like Felicity King and Yseult Pertwee being obsessed with their appearance, etc.

One thing I do wonder about is what it was like for the "Inter V" group, with the Maynard triplets at 12 in the same form as Yseult and Joan at 16 or nearly 16. There's such a gap in ages there.

Author:  Abi [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:28 pm ]
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I'd definitely agree about EBD not really being able to talk about the physical side of adolescence, but I do think she portrays the awkwardness of the age well. The only thing is that with most of the girls there isn't really a problem, and if there is they grow out of it very quickly. There are only a few like Joey, Margot and Jack Lambert who really struggle. And of course there are some people who never really seem to be adolescent at all, like Len!

That's an interesting point about the age discrepancy in Inter V - 16 is going on for adult, whereas 12 is definitely child. I should think it must have felt like a very cliquey form, although I never particularly noticed this in the book.

Author:  snowmaiden [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:19 pm ]
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There is a conversation between two of the mistresses - possibly Miss Wilmot and AN other? - when they are discussing what makes the early teens 'such a difficult time', and they say 'it's because one is neither fish nor fowl nor good red herring'. A bit cheesy perhaps but quite neat. And I wish I could be more specific about which book it's in but all my CS books are currently in boxes.

Agree about the age gap in Inter V, they can't all have gelled very well.

Author:  JayB [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:55 pm ]
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Quote:
That's an interesting point about the age discrepancy in Inter V - 16 is going on for adult, whereas 12 is definitely child. I should think it must have felt like a very cliquey form, although I never particularly noticed this in the book.


In real life it probably would be, but as it's the triplets who are the youngest in the form, and everything revolves around them, it doesn't seem that way. We do know that Yseult and Joan, the two oldest girls in the form, don't have any close friends, and neither does Francie Wilford.

Some of the other girls, such as Jo Scott, who had established friendships when they were in other forms, must have been left feeling rather out of things. (And I don't know what Jo Scott was doing in Inter V anyway, since she was in Upper IV the term she arrived, which was the right form for her age, and a full school year had passed between then and New Mistress.)

Author:  KB [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:26 pm ]
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snowmaiden wrote:
There is a conversation between two of the mistresses - possibly Miss Wilmot and AN other? - when they are discussing what makes the early teens 'such a difficult time', and they say 'it's because one is neither fish nor fowl nor good red herring'. A bit cheesy perhaps but quite neat. And I wish I could be more specific about which book it's in but all my CS books are currently in boxes.

Agree about the age gap in Inter V, they can't all have gelled very well.


Actually it's a conversation between the prefects rather than mistresses and it's in Excitements:

Quote:
“Well, I don’t know what the rest of you think, but it strikes me that it behoves us to sit up and take a little more notice of Inter V than we’ve done, so far. It’s quite bad enough having imps in the Fourths and Thirds without having to tackle the same among the Fifths.”
Lesley Bethune spoke. “The trouble is,” she said, “that actually, they’re neither fish, flesh, fowl, nor good red herring—by which I mean they’re hardly Seniors and yet they’re a little beyond Middles—most of them, anyway—and it’s a muddling position to be in. They don’t know what to make of themselves and if we don’t look out, we’re not going to know what to make of them, either.”
Her clan listened to her with respect. Lesley was a silent creature for the most part, but she was a thinker and when she did talk, her crowd had got into the habit of listening to her. Mary-Lou went as deeply as she—in some ways deeper; but she was a chatterer, too, though they were all ready to listen to her. On this occasion, Elinor turned to the first Library prefect to ask, “What do you think, Mary-Lou? Is that what’s likely to be the trouble?”
Mary-Lou had been regarding Lesley thoughtfully. “Yes,” she said, in reply to Elinor’s query. “I think Lesley’s got at a lot of the truth. But I also think we’ll have to go further than that.”
“In what way?” It was Madge who asked this.
“Well, some of them have come on a good deal since the beginning of last term and are beginning to take a more—more—adult stand. It’s a terribly mixed form. I don’t believe,” she added with a sudden rush of inspiration, “that we can possibly lump them all together and treat them all the same way. You get girls like Jo Scott and Rosamund Lilley who look at things from—well, from our point of view, more or less. And then you get people like Margot Maynard and Heather Clayton who are still Middles in their outlook and likely to remain so for a while yet. If you ask me, it’s a difficult form and we’ll have to move carefully where they’re concerned—especially,” she added with a sudden grin, “when you remember that they’ve also got Yseult Pertwee who fancies herself grown-up and who can behave in a thoroughly kiddish way.”
The young faces round the table in the prefects room were very grave as they listened to their other oracle. Sybil looked at Lesley.
“Do you agree, Lesley?” she asked.
Lesley nodded. “Every time! If you notice, you’ll see that they aren’t a united form. They’re broken up into little cliques all the way through. They’ve had a whole term to grow together, but I haven’t seen any sign of its happening so far. Oh, I know it’s too early in the term to say definitely yet. We haven’t been back a full week. But that’s how it struck me at the end of last term and I haven’t seen anything to show that they’re any different this.”

Author:  snowmaiden [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:36 am ]
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Ahhhh, it all comes flooding back. Thanks for posting that, it's been driving me crazy.

Author:  Abi [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:18 pm ]
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Hmm, haven't read Excitements for ages so I'd forgotten about that bit. I wonder whether after that first experiment Inter V becomes just another form you go through, rather than a mixed halfway group, since the problems aren't really highlighted anywhere else. Maybe the staff decided it wasn't a good plan and the idea slid into insignificance?

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:56 pm ]
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I think that EBD just introduced Inter V because she'd got herself into a bit of a muddle :lol: .

She decided that the triplets were going to be the only girls under 12 who went to the Gornetz Platz when the school first opened there. I understand that maybe she thought parents would be reluctant to send children under 12 abroad, but she could have got round it like she did in Tyrol when the youngest girls were mainly people whose parents lived nearby (eg Maria Marani) or people whose parents "had" to leave them at a boarding school because they were working abroad (e.g. Any Stevens or Robin). So the triplets ended up in forms with girls much older than themselves and would have ended up in the VIth form at about 14 if she hadn't made a change somewhere!

Then she was focusing very much on "the Gang" to the extent that there weren't many strong characters in the age groups just below them; so supporting characters like Jo Scott and Emerence Hope, who were only just younger than the Gang, ended up being friendly with the triplets, who were quite a lot younger, because there wasn't really a group of strong characters in between the two groups (hope that that horribly convoluted sentence makes some sort of sense somehow!).

Author:  charmkat [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

The subject is missing so glaringly from the Chalet stories that it is almost an offence except that we have to remember WHEN these books were written - any subject around development would have been completely taboo, hence the reason it never makes an appearance. And its not just girls adolescence, the word 'pregnant' never seems to appear either, it always amazed me how all those babies came along and yet there was absolutely no reference whatsoever to the most natural condition in the world... and how Joey Maynard managed to have Triplets without there being any mention of her obvious pregnancy (well she must have been pretty big with three of them in there) is amazing. What also struck me about that same subject is that in all the early books right up to 'Exile' her delicacy is referred to, yet she manages to give birth to three babies, at home in the same book, suddenly it seems, full of good health. EBD seems to have felt that it was necessary to pass over all the natural functions or at least only refer to anything very oubliquely.

Author:  MJKB [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

charmkat wrote:
And its not just girls adolescence, the word 'pregnant' never seems to appear either, it always amazed me how all those babies came along and yet there was absolutely no reference whatsoever to the most natural condition in the world...


EBD was a little more forthcoming about pregnancy and childbirth than any other writer in her genre, at least any I'm aware of. It's quite obvious by the context that Joey breast feeds her babies, and we always know when she is about to produce, even if she has to resort to euphenisms like 'busy'. Rescue is quite racy for its time as it allows the reader into Jack and Joey's bedroom in the middle of the night and, what is more, they are sleeping in the same bed and neither has a foot on the floor a la Hollywood!
I don't think we fully appreciate just how prudish those times were for everybody, not just for children.

Author:  Sunglass [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

MJKB wrote:
It's quite obvious by the context that Joey breast feeds her babies...


It is, but I think I find myself noticing it by the way EBD carefully doesn't say so - in fact, I think she seldom if ever actually uses the word 'feeding', apart from for adults and children too old for the breast - presumably in case our modest young imaginations are shocked. I know it would be impossible for her to write about Joey unhooking her nursing bra and having latching-on difficulties, but I do just find myself giggling slightly at moments where you have Joey going to 'attend to the wants' of her baby (which makes the baby sounds like s/he might possibly be looking for a spot of light house-keeping, or to buy a kitchen appliance or something), or when she's in a room with a hungry small baby when suddenly there's a slight glitch in the narrative when no one's movements or position is described and then she's putting down a 'satisfied' baby.

Mind you, it would be odd if breast-feeding were matter-of-factly described in a series of novels where no one ever goes to the loo. Or has breasts for that matter. One intuits Joan Baker may have been well-endowed (I always assumed that some of the unsuitable frocks may have shown this off), but one imagines that EBD's preferred style of beauty was sylph-like. Can one have 'trig' bosoms, I wonder?

Author:  JellySheep [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

Sophie Hamel is described as being 'a large creature' who 'did not have far to lean' (to get her dress button tangled in the tablecloth fringe) in Reunion. And in Goes To It Jo is referred to as 'feeding her babies herself'. So there are bosoms, even if discreetly euphemised...

Author:  LizzieC [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

Sunglass wrote:
Can one have 'trig' bosoms, I wonder?


*sits giggling quietly at the thought*

I imagine one could - they'd probably be small, pert and perfectly formed. Though after breast-feeding 11(?) babies, I can't imagine Jo's would have been described so.

Author:  Liz K [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

Sunglass wrote:
................ or when she's in a room with a hungry small baby when suddenly there's a slight glitch in the narrative when no one's movements or position is described and then she's putting down a 'satisfied' baby.


As in "Three Go to the CS" (I think) when Mary-Lou has been playing with the Russell/Maynard children, they ruin their clothes and upset Madge, but Joey can't get downstairs to see what all the fuss is about because she's "tied"!!

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

What always gave away adolescence for me was the front covers. I have largely Amarda pbs, so published quite a bit later, and the covers do try to depict the "girls" as they would be. I think that the first time I noticed was 'and Jo' and the front cover of that, where they are clearly more adult like in body. So, while EBD didn't mention it directly, I always pictured them as having 'normal' bodies - not completely flat-chested etc.

There are also an abumndance of bad moods which need to be treated with Matey's patent formula, and the whole form seem to suffer at the same time. Is it the heat, the being cooped up or something else entirely one wonders...

Author:  Lulie [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

LizzieC wrote:
Sunglass wrote:
Can one have 'trig' bosoms, I wonder?


*sits giggling quietly at the thought*

I imagine one could - they'd probably be small, pert and perfectly formed. Though after breast-feeding 11(?) babies, I can't imagine Jo's would have been described so.


It's possible that they could be small. A friend of mine breastfed her five children (not all at once, I hasten to add!) and is forever bemoaning that she's "as flat as a brick wall!"

Author:  claire [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

Joey does breastfeed the triplets until the trip across the chanel when it's made clear to her that 'she must cast her babies at once. She rebelled against this, but gave in when she found that nursing even one of them would unfit her for anything, even if the child profited by it, which was doubtful.'

Author:  Alison H [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

She does go into a surprising amount of detail (for a children's book in the 1940s, and even for a children's book now) on the subject in that early part of Goes To It/War - compared with the more usual euphemisms about babies "needing" their mothers and so on.

:lol: :lol: :lol: at the "trig" question.

Author:  macyrose [ Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

I think EBD becomes more forthright about expected babies as the series progresses. In the early books women are said to be busy or will have their hands full or shouldn't be worried. But in the later books it's often said straight out that someone is expecting a baby. Barbara Chester says her sister Beth is having a baby in August in Excitements and Jo says that Hilary Graves in expecting a baby in October in Changes.

There's an interesting article on Adolescence in the CS here in Ju Gosling's Virtual World of Girls in the Chalet School section.

Author:  Alison H [ Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

Just been re-reading a bit of Joey & Co and it struck me that there seemed to be a lot more adolescent-type themes in that than in most of the books. Joey tells Ruey that at her age she should be taking more interest in her clothes and her general appearance (which was actually very rude, although not as rude as telling her that her chalet looked like a workhouse, but that's beside the point!), and we later get Ruey taking a "feminine delight" in her new clothes.

Later - I think it's actually in another book - Ruey does some kind of home perm: OK, it goes wrong, but no-one criticises her for it, whereas normally any girl taking a great interest in her hair or clothes from any viewpoint other than one of general neatness/tidiness would probably be criticised for being vain.

Then there's Roger. We're told that he's started to shave, and that Ruey and Roddy tease him for having a lot of stubble when he can't use his razor after his accident: we certainly never get anything like that in any of the other books. We're even told - indirectly - that he thinks Len is pretty. Then, of course, there are the "exiguous" bathing trunks :lol: .

I wonder if maybe EBD was thinking of changing the style of the books slightly at this point ... and then went totally overboard with Prof Richardson and the spaceship and decided not to bother!

Author:  MJKB [ Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Themes: Adolescence

Alison H wrote:
Then, of course, there are the "exiguous" bathing trunks :lol: .

Yes, that was quite out of character, and then, shortly after this "6 foot of manhood" appears, Joey gets into her swimsuit and shows off her assets - I mean prowess at swimming! Interesting juxtaposition!

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