The CBB :: View topic - School: The Finishing Branch

...I really like the idea of the finishing branch but like most people think having Bill as its principal was a huge waste of her talent. There were lots of other senior staff who would have been very suitable and not such a loss to the school proper. Miss Derwent? Mademoiselle ?

one of the drabbles, the one about the Marlow's I think, suggesed that it had gradually merged with the sixth form to provide A levels for those who wanted them and society lessons for the rest.
one of the drabbles, the one about the Marlow's I think, suggesed that it had gradually merged with the sixth form to provide A levels for those who wanted them and society lessons for the rest.

Peggy and Bride spend two years each there.

Post subject: Re: School: The Finishing Branch Reply with quote
In one of the very late books - Prefects, probably - it's said that a large number of the present Lower VI/VIb are not staying on for a final year at the school proper but are going straight to St Mildred's the next year. These girls are presumably not intending to take A Levels or go on to further education.

I'm actually not sure what happened in the old 'seventh term entrance' system after you'd sat for Oxbridge entrance and interviewed - you'd know whether you'd got in in December, then as now (I assume) so what did you typically do the rest of the year?

Quote:

At my school, people mostly left at the end of the autumn term, once they'd done the Oxbridge entrance.

I think it would be quite sensible to combine that third year with some social / fun stuff and some polish like further languages: but you'd have a huge dichotomy with the purely social / filling-in-time before marriage girls.

Author:	Róisín [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:	School: The Finishing Branch
The finishing branch had an entire book devoted to it, and played a fairly important role for a number of books. What do you think of the finishing branch concept? Was it a logical one for the school, or was it an outdated concept? Please raise any issues in relation to this below

Author:	Alison H [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
The late Diana, Princess of Wales went to a finishing school, and she wasn't born until 1961. However, I assume that her school was aimed at girls who were a) not academic and b) from "society" backgrounds. St Mildred's isn't like that at all: it's like a cross between a pre-university gap year and a halfway house between school and university. The girls who are there to start with - Peggy & co - seem more like traditional finishing school girls (did any of them plan to go on to university?), but I'm not entirely sure what the point of it was for Bride, Mary-Lou and all the other people who just went there between school and university, other than just to have an extra year with their friends which seems to be the main reason Josette is upset at missing out. I do like The Chalet School in the Oberland, though, and think it's the shame that we saw so little of the finishing branch after that.

Author:	JayB [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
I could see the point of a finishing branch in Switzerland when the main part of the school was in England/Wales, and when most of the girls weren't planning to go on to further education. It gave them the opportunity to travel and to work on their languages in a more adult environment. But once the School proper had moved to Switzerland, there didn't seem much point to it for girls who had come up through the school, especially if they were going on to university. Girls like Mary Lou were really wasting time there; they wouldn't have learned much that would have been useful to them in the future. I think the finishing branch might still have served a useful purpose for girls who had been to Glendower House or other schools in the UK, but I think they might have needed to add more practical subjects, such as secretarial skills, to the curriculum, in addition to the languages. And I do think Nell was wasted as head. I can understand that they'd want one of the most senior mistreses to oversee the start up, but I think it's a shame that she ceases to play a central role in the books once she's gone to St Mildred's. From EBD's point of view, I suppose she was toying with the idea of moving the school proper to Switzerland, since Austria seemed to be out of the question, and this was a sort of trial run. If readers hadn't liked it, or she or her publishers had thought the idea didn't work, St Mildred's could have been quietly forgotten, and the main action would have stayed in the UK - perhaps moving back to Plas Howell, or to some other location.

Author:	Sunglass [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
I spend time in Switzerland staying with friends who live not far from Montreux, and there are several finishing schools in the area - coincidentally one of the big ones has what it terms a 'winter campus' not far from these friends' chalet in the Bernese alps. I think either Diana or Sarah Ferguson also went to one in the same area, now closed. The emphasis these days seems to be, somewhat depressingly, on giving polish to the nouveaux riches wives of the future, from what I can judge - lots of stuff on international manners, making conversation, dressing appropriately for different occasions, dealing with domestic staff, dining etiquette, formal dancing, cheats' guides to culture etc etc - and from the girls I've encountered, many seemed to be non-Europeans presumably sent to acquire some kind of 'European polish'. Honestly, the whole thing seemed massively depressing and anti-feminist. But the point I think I wanted to make was that you can see the logic of this kind of thing - and it's not so different to what it would have been in the 1950s, though without the daughters of Gulf sheikhs, I suppose. You are essentially acquiring the necessary polish to make your debut in society/hook a rich man - in debutante days, your parents would probably have had some idea of a year in Switzerland or France knocking an air of the school room or nursery off you. But St Mildred's doesn't operate by that logic at all - it's as though EBD couldn't quite set aside her own ethos of the value of academic education, so the finishing branch of the CS is neither one thing nor another. It's not quite school, but neither is it flower arranging, table setting and getting out of a car without flashing your knickers - there seems no particular reason to go there, especially if you've already been to the CS, or are en route to university. But of course, if part of the point of inventing a finishing branch was to retain favourite characters in the series, it couldn't have been a real finishing school, as one can't imagine Mary-Lou and co walking around with books on their heads, and EBD clearly didn't want to bring in an entirely new set of characters aged eighteen or nineteen. Although I must admit, I'd be hugely amused by a drabble in which Kathie Ferrars and Nancy Wilmot get tired of having to lend their car to St Mildred's every week, for lessons in exiting a motor gracefully in a large hat and heels, or something.

Author:	MJKB [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
It might have made a tad more sense if only girls who did not intend going on to university used it as a sort of - well finishing school, I suppose. People like Peggy Bettany, for example, could afford to while away another year at school before hitting the altar with a suitable mate. But,why she went back for a second year just because her sister Bride was going to be there is a bit questionable, they weren't THAT close, why not just take another year and get a degree? It's a pity EBD didn't rationalise the prospective university candidates time there by doing another A level or something in the academic sphere that would be useful to them. I could see it as a pre-university year for some girls and a finishing school for others. Some parents would love the opportunity to expose their daughters to art, music, literature, European culture in general in a safe and secure environment. Other girls could use it as a pre-university year. I really like the idea of the finishing branch but like most people think having Bill as its principal was a huge waste of her talent. There were lots of other senior staff who would have been very suitable and not such a loss to the school proper. Miss Derwent? Mademoiselle ?

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Author:	Emma A [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
MJKB wrote: ...I really like the idea of the finishing branch but like most people think having Bill as its principal was a huge waste of her talent. There were lots of other senior staff who would have been very suitable and not such a loss to the school proper. Miss Derwent? Mademoiselle ? They couldn't have lost Mlle Lachenais, since she was the only French teacher at the school! And they would have missed her coffee...

Author:	MJKB [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
They couldn't have lost Mlle Lachenais, since she was the only French teacher at the school! And they would have missed her coffee... [/quote] Shoot! What WAS I thinking of? Solution: Joey's tea?

Author:	Selena [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
What did St Mildred's actually teach the girls? I don't have "The Chalet School in the Oberland" so i don't know if any subjects are mentioned there. I assume languages, obviously, but the girls are supposed to be fluent in at least English, French and German by the time they leave the "proper" Chalet School aren't they? So i don't quite see the point of the finishing branch

Author:	Alison H [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
According to The CS in the Oberland, they all do needlework, appreciation of music and art. Not quite learning about good posture and deportment, but still the sort of thing people probably associate with finishing schools! Then some people study arts subjects whilst others study maths and science. I think they also had to speak certain languages on certain days like they did at the main school, but I may have imagined that. Thinking about it, from 14 onwards we were working towards GCSEs and then A-levels, so the idea of a year of studying your preferred subjects (I am so bad at art and sewing that I reckon I'd've been chucked out of both lots of classes within a week, and could just have concentrated on history and literature!) with no exam pressure and in the company of all your old schoolfriends seems rather nice. From a practical viewpoint, though, it seems like rather a waste of time and money. It sounds to me, in CS in the Oberland, as if the girls coming from other schools would have got more out of it than Peggy and Dickie and co would, because their language skills would have improved so much.. That would apply even more so later on when girls from other schools would be getting their first chance to spend a long period abroad, whereas CS girls would already have spent a lot of time in Switzerland.

Author:	jennifer [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
I could see the finishing school being established as a final year branch for CS students when the school was still in England, to give them a year living in a different country, and more polish to their languages (I'm guessing an Island in Wales wouldn't give very many opportunities to speak either French or German). I could even see it as sort of a Special Sixth, with girls concentrating on a single area - say Literature and History, or Science and Mathematic, or Domestic Science, or Music before going on to further training. When I think of finishing schools I think of - well, actually, I think of Miss Scrimmage's Finishing School for Young Ladies from the MacDonald Hall Books - but in general, things like deportment and etiquette, modern languages, music and art, hostessing, managing servants, sewing, genteel sports and so on. The finishing branch has some of that, but they also have purely academic courses and heavy duty trekking. It seems to serve both girls like Peggy, who are returning home to help, wealthy girls like Elma, plus girls who are planning on university and various careers. Bride, for example, is planning on university, but still spends two years at the finishing branch first. I think EBD may have been testing the waters for a spin-off series with older girls. In any event, the finishing branch plays a fairly major role in the early Swiss books, with the girls meeting up, very detailed descriptions of pantomimes, and shared sports and activities. However, in the later Swiss books, it sort of fades from sight, even though it's located closer. The last books rate barely a mention. Peggy and Bride spend two years each there. By Mary-Lou's day, they spend one. Sybil spends one year, but Josette doesn't get to go at all. Then the triplets spend an extra, custom tailored year at the main school, not going to the finishing branch at all. I wonder if the finishing branch had morphed more into a traditional upper class style by that point, making it less desirable for the typical CS girl.

Author:	CBW [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
one of the drabbles, the one about the Marlow's I think, suggesed that it had gradually merged with the sixth form to provide A levels for those who wanted them and society lessons for the rest.

Author:	MJKB [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
CBW wrote: one of the drabbles, the one about the Marlow's I think, suggesed that it had gradually merged with the sixth form to provide A levels for those who wanted them and society lessons for the rest. one of the drabbles, the one about the Marlow's I think, suggesed that it had gradually merged with the sixth form to provide A levels for those who wanted them and society lessons for the rest. But they already had A levels in the school proper. jennifer wrote: Peggy and Bride spend two years each there. I knew Peggy spent two years there and the reason given for that was to provide the opportunity for the two sisters to be together - though I still don't understand why as they weren't THAT close in school, but I didn't realise Bride spent a further year after that. Why on earth would she need to, apart from having fun, I suppose. She left the school proper at 17 and half so that would mean she started university at almost 20. Nothing wrong with that per se, but there was no need for it in Bride's case.

Author:	Caroline [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
EBD seemed initially to create St Mildreds by taking what would have been the Special Sixth to Switzerland and adding in the continental-polish-work-on-your-languages bit, and it seemed to make a bit of sense at the time. But the point of the Special Sixth was to provide an extra year before university / training college for either (a) girls who were a bit too advanced for the Sixth Form but weren't old enough to start their training, so were having specialised lessons in their intended Uni subjects, (b) girls who were old enough to start college but needed a bit more studying or an extra qualification first, perhaps because they'd missed some terms earlier in their school career, (c) girls starting vocational training in music or needlework or secretarial work or nursing who are staying on and specialising perhaps because - an EBD favourite - they are waiting for there to be a vacancy for them at e.g. "a famous school of art needlework" (or some such). EBD thus talks about the Special Sixth in the St Briavels books in terms of girls doing secretarial training / girls doing what sounds like a foundation year before they go to Uni / girls working for Uni-enabling or music school-enabling scholarships / girls working at their sciecnes as they're not old enough to start their nursing training... So there was definitely an strong academic or further training-related point to it, it wasn't just a marking time or having fun thing. It seems to be a form for people who are Specialising... If she'd stuck to this ethos for St Mildreds, then I think it would have worked. But it loses the academic point fairly quickly, and the continental polish becomes moot too, with the school itself moving to the Platz. Also, it becomes 'the thing' for everyone to go there automatically, to the point where it's a big shock if someone isn't going, whereas the Special Sixth was very much a small thing, a form you went into for special, unusal reasons...

Author:	JayB [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
In one of the very late books - Prefects, probably - it's said that a large number of the present Lower VI/VIb are not staying on for a final year at the school proper but are going straight to St Mildred's the next year. These girls are presumably not intending to take A Levels or go on to further education. If that became a trend, the authorities would have to make some changes - amalgamate St Mildred's with the Sixth and make a kind of Sixth Form College, maybe.

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Author:	MJKB [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
JayB wrote: Post subject: Re: School: The Finishing Branch Reply with quote In one of the very late books - Prefects, probably - it's said that a large number of the present Lower VI/VIb are not staying on for a final year at the school proper but are going straight to St Mildred's the next year. These girls are presumably not intending to take A Levels or go on to further education. Yes, I could see that working. St. M's could serve a dual purpose for girls between the ages of 16 to 19: a) A further opportunity to sit A Levels, perhaps in another subject or one of the other international qualifications,and that wouldn't necessarily militate against taking A Levels in the school proper, b) A year of cultural immersion for the more traditional type of finishing school girl. This would accomodate girls from the SWiss branch as well as the English one and other schools too.

Author:	Pado [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
Presumably responding to years of my begging for boarding school (influenced by CS reading), my mother offered me a year at finishing school after completing high school. I was horrified and said so in no uncertain terms, although I certainly needed Finishing (still do, for all that). That was in the mid1970s, and it seemed absolutely irrelevant then - hard to imagine it continuing through today!

Author:	Tiffany [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
At the academic side of St. Mildred's, was university preparation or university entrance exam offered? I've heard that at one time it was standard for Oxbridge hopefuls at state schools to have three years in the sixth form - two for A levels and a third for the entrance exam. I think it would be quite sensible to combine that third year with some social / fun stuff and some polish like further languages: but you'd have a huge dichotomy with the purely social / filling-in-time before marriage girls.

Author:	Sunglass [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
I'm actually not sure what happened in the old 'seventh term entrance' system after you'd sat for Oxbridge entrance and interviewed - you'd know whether you'd got in in December, then as now (I assume) so what did you typically do the rest of the year? I think the problem with that working with the CS finishing branch is that you'd traditionally be working ferociously hard for the first part of the year (and it wouldn't be helpful to be surrounded by people who were there for 'polish' and some languages - and I have difficulty imagining the CS allowing you to work as hard as I would assume was necessary!), but then you could slack off, once you knew you'd got in - and as we know, all CS girls who apply get into Oxford (though apparently without troublesome details like interviews and exams!) I know from reading Fiona McCarthy's The Last Debutante that some debs (including F McC herself) were Oxford-bound the autumn after their Season, and some of them certainly did stints in European finishing schools before that, so perhaps not all that implausible? Though it sounds as though EBD didn't know a lot about the mechanics of getting a place at Oxford (outside the big male public schools where you got an automatic place at one point - which must be what she's assuming CS girls can do?), so it sounds as though she couldn't have known to factor in the kind of intense preparation offered by other schools, especially as the CS seems to insist on such short study hours.

Author:	JayB [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
Quote: I'm actually not sure what happened in the old 'seventh term entrance' system after you'd sat for Oxbridge entrance and interviewed - you'd know whether you'd got in in December, then as now (I assume) so what did you typically do the rest of the year? At my school, people mostly left at the end of the autumn term, once they'd done the Oxbridge entrance.

Author:	abbeybufo [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
JayB wrote: Quote: I'm actually not sure what happened in the old 'seventh term entrance' system after you'd sat for Oxbridge entrance and interviewed - you'd know whether you'd got in in December, then as now (I assume) so what did you typically do the rest of the year? At my school, people mostly left at the end of the autumn term, once they'd done the Oxbridge entrance. We were supposed to stay until half-way through the lent term - all previous years of 3rd year sixth had mostly done so, though sometimes people did go sooner if they had a particular reason. In my year we discovered that they only wanted us to stay to that half-term because that was when the capitation allowance was calculated, so that the headmistress's salary would be enhanced by our being there. As, sadly, we all hated the head, we all found 'good' reasons to leave at Christmas. It all seems a bit petty now, but she really did make herself greatly disliked, though she ran a very good school.

Author:	jennifer [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: School: The Finishing Branch
Tiffany wrote: I think it would be quite sensible to combine that third year with some social / fun stuff and some polish like further languages: but you'd have a huge dichotomy with the purely social / filling-in-time before marriage girls. I think that's the sticking point for St Mildred's. It could be designed as a concentrated year for people preparing for entrance exams and special post secondary training - a physiology course and extra biology for students going into nursing and medicine, concentration on art and music for students doing artistic endeavours, focussed language, and literature and history seminars for the general arts inclined. Or it could be a true finishing branch, intended for upper class girls not pursuing secondary education, and girls who want a year abroad before returning home. Then, the concentration would be on polishing spoken modern languages, and working on refined accomplishments - needlework, music, art, drama, literature and foreign culture, plus some fashion and deportment. Trying to mix the two, though, comes across as strange.