The CBB :: View topic - Themes: Guilt and Repentance

As Mary-Lou reached the place where Miss O'Ryan had noted that faint shadow, the toboggan suddenly swung half round and, in that position, struck the snag.

If your tobaggans caught it, you might have had a nasty accident.

The way that people are made to feel guilty for things that aren't their fault is something I find quite worrying.
.......
They are really pretty obsessed with blame. No-one seems able to accept that Sybil spilling hot water on Josette, much as she shouldn't have been messing with the kettle, was just an accident,

Alison H wrote:

I've always assumed Madge and Jem's reaction to Sybil was provoked by their own guilt at having left the children alone, rather than actual anger towards Sybil. I think it's heartless to blame her for the whole incident...she is obviously still feeling very guilty about it years later.

Selena wrote:

Alison H wrote:

Madge may have seen the accident as Sybil's fault but she certainly forgives her straight away. Can't remembert he exact quote but Joey says everyone was raging at Sybil except Madge who forgave her straight away and the rest slowly came around. Madge had also been known to be stricter with the children on smaller misdemeanors. I always interpreted that to mean, Madge herself could see it was an accident. Rosa was in charge of the kids but had gone off to collect eggs or something

Whenever there's an accident, there's always that "what if" feeling that if someone involved had just done something or just not done something then it wouldn't have happened. OK, Sybil had been told not to touch the kettle and so she shouldn't have touched it, but she didn't mean to hurt anyone, and you get the impression that she feels guilty about it for ever more:

even when she's at St Mildred's we're told that she goes mad if anyone mentions her looks, which are supposedly linked to her disobedience.

the whole lot of them for gluttony!

When I try and imagine the size of their picnics, with pies *and* sandwiches *and* salads *and* some kind of sweet, not to mention the cream fettish, my tummy turns queasy!

All the Seven Deadly Sins ideas are just so hilarious!

All the Seven Deadly Sins ideas are just so hilarious!

Why do you think they're hilarious? Can't see the humour myself. Apparently there are seven new deadly sins, but I'm not sure whether or not they are meant to replace the old ones.

The new mortal sins are, thank you telegraph.co.uk, genetic modification, carrying out experiments on humans, polluting the environment, causing social injustice, causing poverty, becoming obscenely wealthy and taking drugs.

My original thought way back up the thread would be that the Seven Deadly Sins would have been an amusing new (terribly impious) theme for a CS Sale - Matey's jam and sweets being sold on the Gluttony stall etc. (Though some of the others would be harder to work in...) Or an original approach to a sheets and pillowcases party...
:lol:

I thought envy could be symbolised by furious women having to spend a hot afternoon buying stuff they don't want while their men folk loll around playing clock golf.

I
Just trying to think what the seven worst sins in terms of not being a proper CS person would be. Disobedience? Rudeness? Sneakiness (is that a word?)/not "playing the game"? Disloyalty? Lack of team spirit (including wanting privacy or wanting to do your own thing)? Wanting to change the status quo (Miss Bubb)? Being a spineless jellyfish (excluding bursting into tears in Miss Annersley's study or Joey's Saal)?

I'd say the worst would be lack of repentance. Of the three expulsions in the series, one is for treason, partially because the other students would be miserable to her. The other two, Vera Smithers and Thekla von Stift, are ultimately kicked out for not being sorry for what they did. Other serious discipline cases (Margot Maynard and Deira O'Hagan for assault, Diana Skelton for vandalism and blackmail) break down and are sorry, and are kept on.

Greed and Sloth are definitely up there - the strong response to midnights, and the contempt towards girls who aren't keen on games and hikes.

Alison H wrote:

Author:	Róisín [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject:	Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Themes of guilt and repentance are found throughout the series, from the triplets confessing nightly to their mother, to the blame laid on Sybil for Josette's accident, or on the Bob Maynards for Rolf's death, to the expulsion (or not) of girls based on their remorse for their crime. What is your opinion of EBD's view on guilt, blame, repentance and punishment? Please join in below

Author:	andydaly [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
It's quite heavily influenced by Catholicism, I think - sins can be of thought, word, deed or omission - like Mrs Maynard not disciplining her son, so allegedly causing his accident. The (now stereotypically Catholic) hyperactive guilt complex - you see people in the CS all the time confessing to having been the cause of actions or matters that were none of their business, for example Len. However, confession and sincere repentance are sufficient for reconciliation, no matter how awful the sin. It is only the unrepentant sinner who cannot be redeemed. (I was raised a Catholic, by the way!)

Author:	Sunglass [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I'm always struck by the fact that both EBD as narrator and lots of her characters generally refer to school misdemeanours/mildly naughty things done by small children as 'sins'. I just used to dismiss it as a linguistic quirk, but it's maybe not irrelevant to this topic, as those 'sins' have, by their nature, to be 'confessed'. (I've said before that the Maynards confessing nightly to Joey, and the parade of miscreants confessing in the CS study always puts me in mind of confession - I think EBD even says Hilda 'absolved' someone at some point.) What strikes me is that she's using a moral/theological term for what are usually only social transgressions - a child having a tantrum is only transgressing the rules of socialisation that say we must learn to control our toddler-ish desires as we grow up. A schoolgirl using slang or going out of bounds is only transgressing a particular set of school rules evolved to suit collective living. Neither is doing anything morally wrong. Obviously, they 'deserve' punishment by the norms of the family or school, but it's hardly a sin, is it? But very few CS pranks go undiscovered and unpunished, compared to other school stories - EBD rather likes to give the impression of Joey/Hilda as an all-seeing God-like eye, missing nothing. And CS consciences are in general very sensitive, even if we leave out Len's morbid tendency to assume responsibility for everything (which I tend to think is not so surprising when we hear Jack's statement in A Future that as the eldest, she is, in fact, largely responsible for what her siblings do.) While we might think that Joey is praiseworthy to try to assume part of the blame for Grizel runnning off to see the Falls in Head Girl, there's also the flipside of that coin, which is that the finger of blame gets pointed in some very random directions, like it being Stacie's fault the Robin gets ill, or Thekla a murderer because of the effect on Joyce's mother etc. Remorse, as andydaly says, gets you everywhere. Stacie is unremorseful for boxing Kitty Burnett's ears and is punished with isolation and collects to learn and repeat. Margot's near-fatal bookend incident gets her a lecture because she expresses the right level of remorse. CS girls representing the Seven Deadly Sins, anyone? Margot for Wrath? Joan Baker for Lust? (poor Joan, but I can't think of anyone else!)

Author:	Tor [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
the whole lot of them for gluttony! When I try and imagine the size of their picnics, with pies and sandwiches and salads and some kind of sweet, not to mention the cream fettish, my tummy turns queasy! On the sin line, I think EBD purposely conflates 'social' transgression with moral transgression. I can't find any quote just now (mist get back to work), but I am sure there are numerous occasions when rule breaking is directly linked with 'lying to god', or some such. The logic, like the logic of e.g. Stacie causing Robin's illness, often leaves a lot to be desired! I was brought up a Catholic too, but have a very open minded and practical mum who is the diametric opposite of Jack and his words to Len. I suspect my guilt complex is directly derived from the Chalet School itself!!!

Author:	Alison H [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
There's definitely a strong Catholic feel to it all (hope I've put that OK): there's a great emphasis on confession and repentance, with the headmistress's study seeming to bear a definite resemblance to a confessional in some cases. Also, with a few exceptions there's great emphasis on the fact that people can change - be saved by repentance! - and that they're only badly-behaved because of external factors such as poor parenting (unless they're Sybil or Margot). There certainly isn't the same emphasis on penance: people get away very lightly in some cases (the much-discussed affair of Margot and the bookend being one of the most obvious ones) so long as they say that they're sorry. The way that people are made to feel guilty for things that aren't their fault is something I find quite worrying. I don't like Thekla but it would hardly have been her fault had Mrs Linton, who was already seriously ill, died at the point in question; and the way that Joey makes Stacie feel guilty about Robin's health is appalling. They are really pretty obsessed with blame. No-one seems able to accept that Sybil spilling hot water on Josette, much as she shouldn't have been messing with the kettle, was just an accident, nor that whatever happened to Rolf Maynard was just an accident. And Mary-Lou tells Emerence not to blame herself for the tobogganing accident - which, whilst Emerence should have obeyed Mlle, was at the end of the day caused by the toboggan hitting a patch of uneven ground - but Emerence clearly does blame herself.

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Author:	Kathy_S [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Where does this "patch of uneven ground" myth come from? It keeps being repeated, when the text clearly says, Quote: As Mary-Lou reached the place where Miss O'Ryan had noted that faint shadow, the toboggan suddenly swung half round and, in that position, struck the snag. This is the very fallen pine that caused Biddy to ban that slope in the first place, because Quote: If your tobaggans caught it, you might have had a nasty accident. So yes, it's an accident, but a very predictable one -- except it's Emerence one might have expected to be hurt.

Author:	Alison H [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Oops - been a while since I read that one, didn't realise that the fallen pine was the reason Biddy had told them to avoid the area in the first place .

Author:	Cat C [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I wondered about that 'myth' as well. It's ambivalent in the text. Biddy is told a pine tree has come down, and notes a faint shadow in the snow in the right sort of area (implying that's where the tree is), and is also told not to let the girls above a certain point... Emerence steers her sledge the wrong way just near the faint shadow (which may or may not be the pine tree) and we are told 'she hit the snag', which still leaves it unclear as to whether it was the fallen pine or something else.

Author:	Selena [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Alison H wrote: The way that people are made to feel guilty for things that aren't their fault is something I find quite worrying. ....... They are really pretty obsessed with blame. No-one seems able to accept that Sybil spilling hot water on Josette, much as she shouldn't have been messing with the kettle, was just an accident, I'm supprised no-one ever seems to blame the person who should have been looking after Sybil and Josette for this accident. Or indeed their parents. Two young children shouldn't be left alone near boiling water. Also, there can't even have been an adult within yelling distance, because i believe it says after Sybil spilled the hot water over Josette and scalded her, she dragged her up to a bathroom and pulled her wet clothes off, thus making the burn worse. Josette would have been yelling the place down the whole time, but it seems it took a long time for anyone to be aware the accident had happened, let alone come and do something about it. I've always assumed Madge and Jem's reaction to Sybil was provoked by their own guilt at having left the children alone, rather than actual anger towards Sybil. I think it's heartless to blame her for the whole incident...she is obviously still feeling very guilty about it years later.

Author:	MJKB [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
The details of Josette's accident are never explained or are they? I just assumed that Sybil disobeyed a direct order which resulted in the accident taking place, rather like what caused ML's accident. If that was the case, I think she does bear a measure of responsibility appropriate to her age. Disobedience is a major sin in the CS universe which is very much in line with Catholic teaching. It was disobedience which caused the Fall of Man, so it is hardly surprising that such weight was placed on it by the Church. Later, the Church used it to supress freedom of thought on ideas and policies with which they disagreed. It also helped maintain the heirarchical structure that still governs the Church today. Like most, I dislike the tendency in the CS to blame anyone that happens to be on site when an accident occurs, or who, like Jane, only strikes out in self defence and is then blamed almost equally with her aggressor. On the credit side, the School very often tempers justice with mercy, and offers second and third chances to girls that other schools would expel.

Author:	Fiona Mc [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Selena wrote: Alison H wrote: The way that people are made to feel guilty for things that aren't their fault is something I find quite worrying. ....... They are really pretty obsessed with blame. No-one seems able to accept that Sybil spilling hot water on Josette, much as she shouldn't have been messing with the kettle, was just an accident, I've always assumed Madge and Jem's reaction to Sybil was provoked by their own guilt at having left the children alone, rather than actual anger towards Sybil. I think it's heartless to blame her for the whole incident...she is obviously still feeling very guilty about it years later. Madge may have seen the accident as Sybil's fault but she certainly forgives her straight away. Can't remembert he exact quote but Joey says everyone was raging at Sybil except Madge who forgave her straight away and the rest slowly came around. Madge had also been known to be stricter with the children on smaller misdemeanors. I always interpreted that to mean, Madge herself could see it was an accident. Rosa was in charge of the kids but had gone off to collect eggs or something

Author:	Selena [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Fiona Mc wrote: Selena wrote: Alison H wrote: The way that people are made to feel guilty for things that aren't their fault is something I find quite worrying. ....... They are really pretty obsessed with blame. No-one seems able to accept that Sybil spilling hot water on Josette, much as she shouldn't have been messing with the kettle, was just an accident, I've always assumed Madge and Jem's reaction to Sybil was provoked by their own guilt at having left the children alone, rather than actual anger towards Sybil. I think it's heartless to blame her for the whole incident...she is obviously still feeling very guilty about it years later. Madge may have seen the accident as Sybil's fault but she certainly forgives her straight away. Can't remembert he exact quote but Joey says everyone was raging at Sybil except Madge who forgave her straight away and the rest slowly came around. Madge had also been known to be stricter with the children on smaller misdemeanors. I always interpreted that to mean, Madge herself could see it was an accident. Rosa was in charge of the kids but had gone off to collect eggs or something i thought it was Madge too Does it ever say how Rosa felt about it? Did she feel responsible?

Author:	Alison H [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I don't think we ever hear actually Rosa speak at all . I'm sure she felt terrible, but unfortunately domestic accidents do happen: she'd only gone outside the house to collect the eggs (they were keeping hens at the time), and even if you're in the house you can't always watch children all the time. I would think that Sybil was just trying to be grown up by making a cup of tea, not messing with the kettle just for the sake of being disobedient, if that makes sense; and doesn't it say that Josette stood on her toe, which presumably startled her into spilling the water? Whenever there's an accident, there's always that "what if" feeling that if someone involved had just done something or just not done something then it wouldn't have happened. OK, Sybil had been told not to touch the kettle and so she shouldn't have touched it, but she didn't mean to hurt anyone, and you get the impression that she feels guilty about it for ever more: even when she's at St Mildred's we're told that she goes mad if anyone mentions her looks, which are supposedly linked to her disobedience. I suppose EBD was actually trying to punish Sybil for being guilty of pride and vanity ... using poor Josette as a plot device .

Author:	Sunglass [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Alison H wrote: Whenever there's an accident, there's always that "what if" feeling that if someone involved had just done something or just not done something then it wouldn't have happened. OK, Sybil had been told not to touch the kettle and so she shouldn't have touched it, but she didn't mean to hurt anyone, and you get the impression that she feels guilty about it for ever more: . I was just thinking of that awful story which was reported so much around Christmas - the poor man who accidentally killed his little daughter by dropping a TV set on her, because he fell over her at the bottom of the stairs while carrying it down. I can hardly bear to think about it - how do you go on after that? - but I wonder whether EBD would have turned it into a fable about obedience or lax parenting or something. Or the evils of pop culture.

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Author:	MJKB [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Sunglass wrote: even when she's at St Mildred's we're told that she goes mad if anyone mentions her looks, which are supposedly linked to her disobedience. I could never understand how her vanity is in someway to blame for the accident. Did she get a sudden urge to look at herself in the mirror causing her to drop the kettle of water on top of poor Josette?

Author:	Fiona Mc [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I think it's more she was vain and proud and thought she could do something like use a hot kettle. I think Daisy says something along the lines of if Sybil hadn't been so cocksure of her own abilities the accident wouldn't have happened. I also think if Sybil pulled up in that with accident, it probably pulled her up in other things like vainity

Author:	JackieP [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Tor wrote: the whole lot of them for gluttony! When I try and imagine the size of their picnics, with pies and sandwiches and salads and some kind of sweet, not to mention the cream fettish, my tummy turns queasy! From EBD's point of view - Gluttony would probably have been Hilda Jukes - who's not a small girl and get's told off for Nina's being angry at her over the Leapfrog incident... Yseult for Pride...? JackieP

Author:	Cat C [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Lydia Maynard for Envy? Who'd get sloth?

Author:	Simone [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Nancy Wilmott, while still at school! She changed completely when she became a mistress

Author:	Sunglass [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I was giving Thekla von Stift the sin of Pride, Gluttony for Everyone Because of Living on Pastries (I'm democratic like that), Margot for Wrath, Joan Baker for Lust (sorry again, Joan, but you're the only CS girl who has possibly gone Any of the Way while on a walk with Unsavoury Vic Coles and his fish supper!), Lydia Maynard for Covetousness - I could see Evadne for Sloth (doesn't she continually complain about the distance to the Sonnalpe) or the unfortunate Hilda Jukes...? Envy could go to either Francie Wilford for wanting to be Margot's best friend, or maybe (briefly) to Grizel when she sees Deira waltz off her with man...? On the other hand, I could see nominating Joey for Lust - after all, she does implicitly talk about sex all the time, when she announces what feels like every five minutes how she and Jack must get down to adding to their long family. Or a joint award to Mollie and Dick Bettany for what someone on that thread called their 'passionate' marriage...

Author:	JS [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
The otherwise perfect Len could be sloth for all that untidiness, while Con could be greed for her love of pinching sugar.

Author:	Kathy_S [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I don't think there's any need to postulate that EBD's views on guilt and repentance are unique to Catholicism. Compare, for example, the General Confession from the Book of Common Prayer, or the rather extreme expectations of obedience and confession to one's parents exhibited in the (very firmly Protestant) Elsie books. (I'm talking about the kinder, gentler parenting by Elsie & her husband here, rather than Elsie's brute of a father.) Rather, I think EBD is part of a continuum in children's literature and in society, though it's true that the way she expresses herself probably has been more persistent in Catholic schools and Protestant Sunday Schools than in secular culture. Possibly one of the most foreign ideas in our litigious society is the constant reinforcement of the idea that one should always try and examine the contribution of one's own behavior to a situation, preferably before blaming others, and that the blame is rarely one-sided. (The usual text has to do looking first for beams/planks in your own eye.) It seems realistic to me that a responsible kid like Len would have absorbed the idea of taking a share of the guilt and making all possible allowances. I'm not so sure about the ethics of flipping this around so that harried parents and principals assign guilt wholesale, but it was certainly common enough that I can remember a very blistering public rebuke when I was foolish enough at age 11-12 to write a teacher about its unfairness. EBD also seems pretty accurate about the ranking of forgiveness as portrayed by the nuns of my youth. Step 1: forgiveness by God (mixing justice & mercy, with emphasis on mercy given repentance) and authority figures (trying for the same, though less perfect). Step 2: those involved forgive each other (harder, but necessary. Especially difficult and prone to result in bitterness if one side fails or is seen as failing to accept responsibility.). Step 3: forgiveness of self (hardest, as portrayed by those EBD characters who still feel guilty years later.) Actually Joey's 'I felt sorriest for you' speech to Sybil about the Josette incident was pretty close to the standard text.

Author:	Alison H [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Mmm, I find it interesting that EBD associates obedience with (strictly Catholic) Tyrol, whereas the only other places I've found such insistence on obedience is in books about strictly Protestant families. The way that Elsie's father and Captain Raymond treat their "disobedient" daughters does really appal me, but Martha Finlay evidently didn't find it inappropriate - she seems to think that Captain Raymond is wonderful. Even Ma and Pa Ingalls (in the Little House books), who are lovely people, insist that Laura and her sisters never "contradict" adults even when the adult in question has got their facts wrong. The guilt issue is treated in a much gentler way in the Little Women books but it's still there: Amy is punished at school for her vanity, Meg is constantly being criticised for her vanity, and Jo blames herself when Amy nearly drowns. As Kathy said, it's an issue in most children's books in the late 19th century and well into the 20th century. Even in the Chronicles of Narnia we get the whole thing with Edmund having to be punished and Aslan saying that the White Witch can kill him instead.

Author:	Millie [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
All the Seven Deadly Sins ideas are just so hilarious!

Author:	MJKB [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Millie wrote: All the Seven Deadly Sins ideas are just so hilarious! Why do you think they're hilarious? Can't see the humour myself. Apparently there are seven new deadly sins, but I'm not sure whether or not they are meant to replace the old ones.

Author:	Alison H [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I assume Millie was referring to the Chalet School girl deadly sins on the previous page of this thread - Joan Baker for lust, everyone for greed for eating too many cream cakes, etc - not the seven deadly sins as such. What are the seven "new" ones, does anyone know?

Author:	andydaly [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Lust, gluttony, avarice, sloth, anger, envy and pride, the old ones, are still recognised by the church and not meant to be replaced by the new ones. The new mortal sins are, thank you telegraph.co.uk, genetic modification, carrying out experiments on humans, polluting the environment, causing social injustice, causing poverty, becoming obscenely wealthy and taking drugs. These are meant to emphasise the human being's place in the world, and are sins with social resonance, as opposed to 'individual' sins. I also think that Millie was referring to each girl representing an individual sin, rather than finding the seven deadly sins inherently funny.

Author:	MJKB [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
MJKB wrote: All the Seven Deadly Sins ideas are just so hilarious! Why do you think they're hilarious? Can't see the humour myself. Apparently there are seven new deadly sins, but I'm not sure whether or not they are meant to replace the old ones. Sorry Millie! I didn't make the( now I think of it, )obvious connection between comment and thread. My daughter is learning the new mortal sins at the moment. She thought her teacher meant they replaced the new ones. Thanks, Andydaly.

Author:	Selena [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Do they teach mortal sins at school now? They didn't at my school, but it was non-denominational so that would be why. andydaly wrote: The new mortal sins are, thank you telegraph.co.uk, genetic modification, carrying out experiments on humans, polluting the environment, causing social injustice, causing poverty, becoming obscenely wealthy and taking drugs. Just a thought... genetic modification – triplets part of a clone experiment? carrying out experiments on humans – what are they really doing up at the San? polluting the environment – picking all those flowers causing social injustice – OOAO getting away with cheek no-one else would causing poverty – fining the girls for slang and leaving them penniless becoming obscenely wealthy – Madge, from the school profits taking drugs – Jem and his syringe...

Author:	Sunglass [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
For drugs, we can add Matey trying to knock Hilda out with a glass of brandy and aspirin, and Hilary Graves offering tranquillisers to passersby! And for causing poverty - what about all those CS fees beggaring parents across Europe? Actually, the CS comes out rather well from the New Sins, joking aside. I hadn't come across these new mortal sins, but the traditional variety, from the Catholic catechism, featured strongly in my primary school life (in Ireland) - I remember when the film Se7en came out, by which time I was living in Oxford, being the only one of my circle was who able to parrot off all seven without a pause - Pride, Covetousness, Lust, Anger, Gluttony, Envy and Sloth. Slightly to other people's alarm. I should add. My original thought way back up the thread would be that the Seven Deadly Sins would have been an amusing new (terribly impious) theme for a CS Sale - Matey's jam and sweets being sold on the Gluttony stall etc. (Though some of the others would be harder to work in...) Or an original approach to a sheets and pillowcases party...

Author:	MJKB [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Sunglass wrote: My original thought way back up the thread would be that the Seven Deadly Sins would have been an amusing new (terribly impious) theme for a CS Sale - Matey's jam and sweets being sold on the Gluttony stall etc. (Though some of the others would be harder to work in...) Or an original approach to a sheets and pillowcases party... What about 'special interest' shaped cakes and confectionary for lust? Or, perhaps, some interestingly arranged vegetables? I thought envy could be symbolised by furious women having to spend a hot afternoon buying stuff they don't want while their men folk loll around playing clock golf.

Author:	andydaly [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
MJKB wrote: I thought envy could be symbolised by furious women having to spend a hot afternoon buying stuff they don't want while their men folk loll around playing clock golf.

Author:	Alison H [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
I learnt to parrot off the 7 deadly sins whilst "doing" the Reformation for A-level, and I can't for the life of me remember why I thought knowing them'd help me in the A-level exam (it was my idea, not the teacher's) ! Just trying to think what the seven worst sins in terms of not being a proper CS person would be. Disobedience? Rudeness? Sneakiness (is that a word?)/not "playing the game"? Disloyalty? Lack of team spirit (including wanting privacy or wanting to do your own thing)? Wanting to change the status quo (Miss Bubb)? Being a spineless jellyfish (excluding bursting into tears in Miss Annersley's study or Joey's Saal)?

Author:	jennifer [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Themes: Guilt and Repentance
Alison H wrote: I Just trying to think what the seven worst sins in terms of not being a proper CS person would be. Disobedience? Rudeness? Sneakiness (is that a word?)/not "playing the game"? Disloyalty? Lack of team spirit (including wanting privacy or wanting to do your own thing)? Wanting to change the status quo (Miss Bubb)? Being a spineless jellyfish (excluding bursting into tears in Miss Annersley's study or Joey's Saal)? I'd say the worst would be lack of repentance. Of the three expulsions in the series, one is for treason, partially because the other students would be miserable to her. The other two, Vera Smithers and Thekla von Stift, are ultimately kicked out for not being sorry for what they did. Other serious discipline cases (Margot Maynard and Deira O'Hagan for assault, Diana Skelton for vandalism and blackmail) break down and are sorry, and are kept on. Greed and Sloth are definitely up there - the strong response to midnights, and the contempt towards girls who aren't keen on games and hikes.