Chalet Girls Grow Up
The CBB -> Book Discussions
#1: Chalet Girls Grow Up Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:12 pm

Hi, I bought this book last week and read it. What do you think? The writer is so cynical, somehow all the nice people turn horrible. what's going on? now we'll never be able to think happily of our fave characters. Enough said, though, the writer still managed to captivate me somehow. What do you all think? Maybe I missed something?Leah Surprised Question Shocked

 

#2:  Author: Donna, Location: Liverpool PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:26 pm

*whispers* I actually quite liked this book - if you take it as a stand alone novel and not a CS fill-in anyway. yes, the writer does go overboard on some of the things the nicest characters go through, but a large part of it was quite realistic (unless I'm being unfairly influenced by the drabbles!) i won't be re-reading it any time soon, but I'm glad I bought it

 

#3:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:06 pm

I agree with Donna, I don't think she wrote anything worse than some of the drabbles but the drabbles aren't published.You do have to take it out of the series as there is no way that it's the way EBD would have taken it, but all of the things that happen are possible, it's just unlikely they would all happen to the same family

 

#4:  Author: pim, Location: the Derbyshire wilderness PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:12 pm

I bought it for fun just to see what it was like after a very 'bashing of it' discussion on the Delphi Forum. And although it really irritates me (a bit too melodramatic for my liking) I think as Donna says you have to take it as a stand alone novel rather than a CS fill-in.

 

#5:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:09 pm

The drabbles aren't meant to be published. We wouldn't even try with most of them. That's the difference.

 

#6:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:29 pm

Yeah, it's quite good as a stand-alone novel, as long as you pretend it's got nothing to do with the CS. oh, and KB, do I have to make it all capitals and that or is it ok to use this sort of text? Idea

 

#7:  Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:32 pm

Would agree with KB. The drabbles are not written for a wide audience which CCGU is.

 

#8:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:58 pm

LL wrote:
oh, and KB, do I have to make it all capitals and that or is it ok to use this sort of text? Idea
Thanks, this is fine. Kiss

 

#9:  Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:37 pm

*g* LL has only been with us a short time, and already she's id'd KB as one of the powers that be...Where's Liss? I think you need to be re-anointed as something, KB!

 

#10:  Author: pim, Location: the Derbyshire wilderness PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:07 pm

*wonders what Lisa may have in mind...* )

 

#11:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:14 pm

*slightly worried about what Lisa has in mind*And I actually quite like seeing my avatar comment change...

 

#12:  Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:45 pm

You could always have both! Remeber on the first board, you were HG and something else. Remember the 'lying there grey still to all appearances' one that never changed? *giggling*

 

#13:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:40 am

Oh, goodness, yes! Rolling Eyes

 

#14:  Author: Helen, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:21 pm

I read CGGU about a year ago. I don't think it could stand up as a lone book because what non-CS reader would understand it? It packs too much into one small book and the author seen to have grabbed different topics from the headlines for the ideas. Life is not really like that.However has it influenced people since Williams' main "targets" seen to be Jo and Mary Lou? Did she help people to go against them?By the way I don't hate either Jo or Mary Lou just sometimes get abit irritated by them.

 

#15:  Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:29 pm

It's an interesting thought, whether MW is partly responsible for the backlash against Jo and Mary-Lou. And Reg too I suppose.

 

#16:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:26 pm

yes, that could be. I always thought JO and Mary-Lou are everyone's favourite characters, but now there's been a big backlash... Shocked wondering about that...

 

#17:  Author: Rachael,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:58 pm

I'm not convinced the backlash is down to CCGU ... (seeing as I haven't read it!)The lead characters in CS (Jo, Mary-Lou, Len etc) do tend to be quite perfect but we are happy to suspend our disbelief because one of the reasons we like the series is because it's safe and stable and warm and real life does not intrude - the perfect fantasy/escapism!But when we come on to a board like this and share our love of the books, we do so against a background of real life and school and uni and jobs and kids etc and it's difficult not to be a little cynical ... when we read to ourselves we're cocooned in the cosy world that is the CS we know and love but once we start sharing thoughts and opinions we bring our modern perspective to the party and can start to see the imperfections ...

 

#18:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:27 pm

good point rachael! Cool

 

#19:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:57 pm

I have to say no matter how much we all bash Jo etc on here I still like her during the book itself - it's afterwards that I realise how it would have irriated me

 

#20:  Author: Vikki, Location: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:59 pm

*agrees totally with Claire!!*

 

#21:  Author: Chelsea, Location: Your Imagination PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:23 pm

I'm another who, if taken on its own, didn't think that CCGU was a bad book - though not really the sort of book that I ususally read.

 

#22:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:37 am

yes, you're probably right there, all of you wh said that CCGU on its own is OK. It does bring the Chalet people out in the real world, though, and I guess that was hard to handle. Cool

 

#23:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:41 am

I have to say that I think people on the board here do it better than I feel (from reading comments) MW does it.

 

#24:  Author: Guest,  PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:58 am

KB wrote:
I have to say that I think people on the board here do it better than I feel (from reading comments) MW does it.
Does this statement mean you haven't actually read the book under discussion? I always wonder how people can comment on texts that they haven't read.

 

#25:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:00 am

I haven't read it, no. However, it is the ideas that I object to, and I've read the summaries and people's comments often enough to feel that I can speak knowledgeably about it.

 

#26:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:09 am

to guest -don't you realize KB can speak knowledgeably about anything? Laughing You've got a point KB, I felt a bit like 'why didn't I do that first? I could have done it better!'

 

#27:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:10 am

Or at least I can go on about anything until people are so sick of me that they pretend I'm knowledgeable just so I'll shut up! Laughing

 

#28:  Author: Guest,  PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:11 am

Summaries and synopses may give one an idea of the plotlines, but they are no substitute for reading the actual book, especially where much of the text is conversation based. Discussions between characters, whilst not always moving the plot along, does provide a wealth of emotion and feeling. All of this adds up to make a book. You should be prepared to try the book. Even if you confirmed your preconceived ideas that you will dislike the book, your comments would have more value then.

 

#29:  Author: Guest,  PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:14 am

Anonymous wrote:
Does this statement mean you haven't actually read the book under discussion? I always wonder how people can comment on texts that they haven't read.
I absolutely agree - I find it very frustrating: my work colleagues are particularly guilty of this - not that I've ever caught them discussing the Chalet School!

 

#30:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:14 am

Anonymous wrote:
Summaries and synopses may give one an idea of the plotlines, but they are no substitute for reading the actual book, especially where much of the text is conversation based. Discussions between characters, whilst not always moving the plot along, does provide a wealth of emotion and feeling. All of this adds up to make a book. You should be prepared to try the book. Even if you confirmed your preconceived ideas that you will dislike the book, your comments would have more value then.
But because I'm writing a CS book, in the same style and everything, my fear is that my whole view on the series will be changed if I start reading it. And nobody is forcing you to read my views, nor attribute them any value whatsoever. I comment for my own amusement and edification, no one elses.

Last edited by KB on Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total

 

#31:  Author: Guest,  PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:20 am

Equally, nobody is forcing you to read my views, which I am merely adding as part of a discussion of "Chalet Girls Grow Up". Surely I am entitled to air my own views and opinions on this Book Discussion thread of a book I have actually read?And if you are merely commenting for your own amusement, why are you doing so in a public forum?

 

#32:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:24 am

I wasn't aware that I was stopping you in any way, although you seem to want to limit me. Part of the point of a forum is that people can reply to others' posts with their views. And I comment because it sometimes amuses or informs other people as well as myself. At least I have the courage to identify myself on this public forum, even if and when my views differ from those of others.

 

#33:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:33 am

who are all these guests? I think we may have exhausted this discussion...

 

#34:  Author: Katarzyna, Location: Preston, Lancashire PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:34 am

Guest(s)Whilst we appreciate your comments and input on this and other topics perhaps it would be beneficial if you register as members on the board.Guest posters who make continuous attempts to rile members will not be tolerated and your actions may result in action being taken against you to prevent you from accessing this board in future.RegardsKatarzyna

 

#35:  Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:25 pm

Kate, I think that is a very fair statement.

 

#36:  Author: Liss, Location: Harrow, London PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:28 pm

Possibly a fair comment, but one which it was up to me to make, I'm afraid.This thread has become somewhat tetchy. Please get it back on topic or I'll lock it.

 

#37:  Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:35 pm

Thank you Liss for intervening, it was beginning to feel uncomfortable in here.

 

#38:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:44 pm

I see why you've emailed us Liss! This was rather pointed wasn't it!!!To get back on topic - I have read the book, in fact own a copy, and yes, I enjoyed it. It is not a CS book, and I absolutely agree with KB's feeling that it could change the way she sees the characters, and in such a way that it could change the was she writes about them. They are so very different to the way EBD portrays them - more so in some ways than the way we write about them on here.

 

#39:  Author: Ellie, Location: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:04 pm

Oh, so that was the thread referred to.I have to say, I have never read the book, and nor do I intend to, the things I've read about it don't really appeal.I did read a snippet of it somewhere though, and it didn't seem as well written as many of the drabbles.

 

#40:  Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:10 pm

I don't think it is, Ellie. It also takes them further from the original than we do, unless we're doing a really way-out FCS drabble!!!

 

#41:  Author: Chelsea, Location: Your Imagination PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:32 pm

*now understands Liss' email.I was lucky in that someone lent me a copy of CCGU, I would have been upset about wasting money on it. Not because it is that bad, but because it isn't the style/genre I enjoy. Even in the drabbles I prefer the SCS ones. I don't think, however, that the author is a bad author, just not one that I enjoy - but then I couldn't get into any Danielle Steele type books either.

 

#42:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:44 pm

Anyone who wants to read CCGU, I can lend it out if you want... [Gathers or Londoners]

 

#43:  Author: Abi, Location: Alton, Hants PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:45 pm

Oh LL PLEASE may I borrow it (wasn't it lucky I happened to check this thread just now Laughing )? I'm a London gatherer!

 

#44:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:53 pm

sure abi! Just come round to my house and pick it up... pm me if you want to do that.

 

#45:  Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:37 pm

*joins the 'aha so that's the why of Liss' post' people'**huggles (rather belatedly) to KB*I have CGGU and periodically consider dumping it. As KB surmises, it can indeed leave a nasty taste. Even nastier than the the drabbles- which arent nasty at all. The FCS ones are so far out as to be in a different universe (sometimes literally) and none of the SCS drabbles are vindictive or malicious- and sometimes CGGU can appear both. Please note use of passive voice. Wink I also think MW squashes too much into a relatively slim book. If she wanted to make a bonkbuster out of it, she should have gone the whole hog, removed all the CS characteristics and people, and just made it a saga a la Barbara Taylor Bradford or Jilly Cooper.

 

#46:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:20 pm

To be honest I think the main problem most people have with it is there are too many bad things (or slightly out of CS world) happening in it, taken individually most of the things are plausible - even Jack's suicide

 

#47:  Author: Mandy, Location: Derry, N.Ireland PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:39 pm

Lisa, could you read it in one night? Wink

 

#48:  Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:34 pm

Joins those who now understand Liss's post and e-mail. Very glad I identified all but one of my 'Guest' posts.Huggles for KB.As I said last time we discussed this book I have not read it and from what I have heard do not want to read it. Having come late to this discussion due to RL I feel sad that our jolly friendliness has been spoilt.

 

#49:  Author: Guest,  PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:19 pm

Susan wrote:
Joins those who now understand Liss's post and e-mail. Very glad I identified all but one of my 'Guest' posts.Huggles for KB.As I said last time we discussed this book I have not read it and from what I have heard do not want to read it. Having come late to this discussion due to RL I feel sad that our jolly friendliness has been spoilt.
Aha, now I understand Liss's email. I generally only have time to hang out on the Cookies and Drabbles.Hey, maybe it was Merryn Williams lurking to see what you all thought of her book!!!!Sorry ...I haven't read CGGU either and don't really want to, from everything I've read about it.

 

#50:  Author: Cathy, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:21 pm

I'm so sorry, that was me. I was logged in a minute ago, so I don't really understand how I became logged out again. Very frustrating ...

 

#51:  Author: Grembles, Location: Norwich PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:55 pm

I've been thinking a lot about this book letely specially since reading the drabbles.I think why it makes me uneasy is however far people go in drabbles you know that they do really like the books and characters, and that it is fun.CGGU takes what people here would label FCS and makes it SCS and that is what makes it feel so different to on here. We have respect for EBD however disrespectfully we use the characters.That being said I do have CGGU and i have read it more than once, but I feel it is more Jilly Cooper than anything else.I hope my feelings make sense and that I haven't trodden on anyone's toes here, these were just my thoughts.

 

#52:  Author: catherine, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:44 pm

PatMac wrote:
I seem to be the last person in the world to get the explanation for Liss's email!.
Not quite Pat! I've only just discovered this! I now understand. I have to say I've not read the book and nor would I wish to do so, it does sound as though it would alter my view of EBD's characters and I have no wish for that to happen. I suppose though, it is one person's attempt to bring the CS into the modern world and their view of what would happen. I don't agree with what I've heard and read about the way she's done it but she obviously got permission to use the characters etc. so it was her right to develop it in the way that she did.

 

#53:  Author: Kat, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:18 pm

Wonder who else will turn up saying they've only just found about emails and what not?! I just read my emails, as don't check that account very often *looks shamefaced* CGGU - I'm glad I bought it, as I had to read it to find out what happens in it! But in terms of a CS book, it was absolutely awful. Would have been far more plausible if just 3, possibly 4, of the storylines had been used. Author seemed to just throw anything and everything she could think of into it, and it really spoilt it in my opinion. Not one I'd recommend to anyone, and I definately don't see it as a CS book or a continuation of the series. All in all - bah humbug to MW!

 

#54:  Author: Nicci, Location: UK PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:08 pm

Kat wrote:
Wonder who else will turn up saying they've only just found about emails and what not?!
Well, me for one Kat! I've been away a lot over the last week or so, and have returned to find the CBB world turned upside down. Sad Could someone please tell me who CGGU was published by?

 

#55:  Author: Grembles, Location: Norwich PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:18 pm

it was published in 1998, reprinted in 1999 by Plas Gwyn Books. I imagine that it was a publisher set up to publish this title, not quite vanity publishing but pretty close A Google search didn't give any more info HTH

 

#56:  Author: Nicci, Location: UK PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:19 pm

thanks! but please explain the term vanity publishing?

 

#57:  Author: Grembles, Location: Norwich PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:26 pm

I think - and please someone correct me if I am wrong - that vanity publishing is when you take your book to someone pay them money and they publish your book for you. It looks like Plas Gwyn Books was a specially created publisher for this book. At work I try to support local authors who have published their own work (Mysterious Bunchester Hall and Connor Clover - see ABE and ebay for details) are two I support and both those authors created their own publisher for their titles after a third party left them them in debt but I don't know enough about it for exact details Crying or Very sad

 

#58:  Author: mohini, Location: india PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:58 am

I do not remeber whether I read the book or the synopsis. In any case I could not finish it. I did not like it at all. Somehow I do not believe that such people exists. No one can be that bad or mad. And the book or the part that I read does not reflect the ideas which CS is supposed to put in their students mind. It left a bad taste in my mouth. (No I did not eat the book. )

 

#59:  Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:43 pm

mohini wrote:
It left a bad taste in my mouth. (No I did not eat the book. )
Nice one Mohini. Laughing I think a bit of laughter is what this board needs at the moment.

 

#60:  Author: Rachael,  PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:22 pm

Or was that just one of those double bluffs so we discount Mohini as the TEM? Wink

 

#61:  Author: Rachel,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:13 am

I quite liked CGGU. BUT I don't read it as CS - the characters may share the same names and family breakdown, but it isn't CS, and isn't intended to be. I think that's where peoples dislike really kicks in - they expect it to be more in keeping with EBD's style, and get disappointed that it isn't. But in all honesty, did Merryn Williams really write anything worse than some of the things we do in drabbles? My own "Con" story contains underage sex, teen pregnancy, rape, marital breakdown, mental health problems, blackmail, stalking, and lots of other fun stuff - all in the early 1950's1! I think MW was actually quite brave (ok, and mercenary too!) to use the characters in this way, as she must have known it was taking the characters right away from CS land. If you haven't tried it, it is worth reading, but just not as CS lore!

 

#62:  Author: Nicole, Location: New Zealand PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:51 am

I've read the book, and I feel it works to a point. I think MW has treated the characters quite cynically (as compared to the drabbles where we tend to take the mickey) and the book becomes a little bit soap opera-ish. While I can't realistically believe that the CS could have survived in the world without some impact from the enormous social and political changes that took part in the world during the 1960's and 1970's, I think it does beggar belief that ALL that happened to one family. I can't say it's a book that I reread very often as compared with most of the rest of the books, but I think it does have its place - but I certainly wouldn't consider it to be canon and should therefore not be placed in or compared with/against the rest of the series. (Hoping this makes sense)

 

#63:  Author: Polly, Location: Essex PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:01 pm

Having read all these comments, I am still in a quandary as to whether I want to read this book. I thought I didn't, then I did and now I am not sure at all. I certainly don't want to buy it. Is there anyone out there who would be willing to lend me theirs if I finally do decide to read it?

 

#64:  Author: Donna, Location: Liverpool PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:24 pm

As I have no plans to read it again in the near future, you can borrow my copy Polly. Just don't let me forget where it is! (have managed to mislay a HB with DW of Genius!) Or (even though i know you said you didn't want to buy it) I bought my CGGU for £7.99 from Amazon a few months ago.

 

#65:  Author: Tassie_Ellen, Location: Tasmania, Australia PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:58 pm

Polly wrote:
Having read all these comments, I am still in a quandary as to whether I want to read this book. I thought I didn't, then I did and now I am not sure at all. I certainly don't want to buy it. Is there anyone out there who would be willing to lend me theirs if I finally do decide to read it?
joins Polly's quandary. I've read the synopsis (is it Chapter 7, that's on the Web somewhere?) and thought then that it wasn't for me, but this discussion has made me think that perhaps I WOULD like to read it once...but I don't want to buy it, either. If any of the Australian members of the board has a copy they'd be willing to lend, I'd happily pay postage both ways to Tassie (- or maybe if the proposed July get-together goes ahead I could read it then? Rolling Eyes )

 

#66:  Author: Polly, Location: Essex PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:12 am

Thanks Donna. Will have a think about it and get back to you. Very Happy

 

#67:  Author: ali, Location: medway, kent PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:26 pm

It sounds depressing, please tell us something funny or good that happens in the story because something must. That might persuade me to read it. I love the drabbles and I realise this is the same kind of thing, its just that being in a book makes it real were as us writing our clearly imaginary extensions of the books doesn't. Did any of that make sense?

 

#68:  Author: Chickpea,  PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:40 am

That is so true, Ali. I haven't read the book and any reviews or comments that I have heard have mentioned the number of bad things that happen. So I'm curious, to those that have read CGGU does it feel like one bad thing happening after another or are there moments of light relief along the way??

 

#69:  Author: Rachel,  PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 12:25 pm

Nicole wrote:
I think it does beggar belief that ALL that happened to one family
I don't know about that though. In a large spread out family, the percentage of nasty things happening within one family does have the scope to get rapidly huge! My grandmother is certainly no Joey Maynard, but she does have six children, and there are twelve grandchildren and eight great grandchildren. Most contact between the family seems to be along the lines of information about the next family disaster/feud. It's just a statistical thing. I'm not saying that the Maynard clan *would* have had one disaster after another, but it is certainly possible.

 

#70:  Author: Julie, Location: Edinburgh PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:06 pm

I hated the book when I read it - I felt it totally went against the CS as we know it.I like the CS books to remain in the cosy part of the world. But when I knew it existed, I couldn't have not read it However, that was before I'd found this place and C&D. If I'd read the book after reading some of the drabbles I would've just found it hilarious and accepted it instead of seeing it as a serious book

 

#71:  Author: Kat, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:48 pm

Chickpea wrote:
So I'm curious, to those that have read CGGU does it feel like one bad thing happening after another or are there moments of light relief along the way??
To me, it definitely felt like one bad thing afer another the whole way through. No light relief at all... think it's a pitty MW wasted so much time and energy over it to be honest!

 

#72:  Author: BethC, Location: Worcester, UK PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:32 pm

Julie wrote:
Quote:
If I'd read the book after reading some of the drabbles I would've just found it hilarious and accepted it instead of seeing it as a serious book
I happened upon CGGU (on the way out of Hay-on-Wye Smile ) not long after it was published, bought it immediately and spent the first few minutes of the journey back giggling over the possibilities hinted at in the first few pages. OK, it then turned rather more serious, but some of the comments near the start just caught me - *hunts up copy* - like Con saying to Len & Margot, "Still, what did you expect? You two are sentimental." Or Grizel's description of Jo as "always been a bit mad, of course. [...] She's up here morning, noon and night, [...] having long heart-to-hearts with the prefects about their petty little problems." Definitely a way I could see Joey going! I think I was amused that someone had dared to do this sort of continuation and actually have it published! Having said that, I agree that it needs not to be taken as CS itself: if you can keep to that, then give it a go. There are some more pleasant bits, even if they're definitely few and far between!

 

#73:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:56 am

Abi's borrowing my copy at the london gather. i got it from amazon for 6.99 so maybe tis worth it... *shrugs* but i don't think it's a good idea to buy it. anyone else who wants to reserve it after abi is welcome!

 

#74:  Author: Nicki, Location: New Zealand PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:04 pm

Tassie_Ellen wrote:
this discussion has made me think that perhaps I WOULD like to read it once...but I don't want to buy it, either. If any of the Australian members of the board has a copy they'd be willing to lend, I'd happily pay postage both ways to Tassie (- or maybe if the proposed July get-together goes ahead I could read it then? Rolling Eyes )
I've got a copy, which I must admit I haven't read yet (!). Bought it out of sheer curiosity. If you haven't been able to borrow one, let me know when I'm in Auckland and I'll post it across the sea! Postage has to be cheaper than all the way from the UK!

 

#75:  Author: Ciorstaidh, Location: London PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:49 pm

Kat wrote:
Chickpea wrote:
So I'm curious, to those that have read CGGU does it feel like one bad thing happening after another or are there moments of light relief along the way??
To me, it definitely felt like one bad thing afer another the whole way through. No light relief at all... think it's a pitty MW wasted so much time and energy over it to be honest!
Light relief? Here's a spoiler for the very end: S P O I L E R S P A C E That should be enough. Len gets together with Tony Barrass at the end. and that's about the only nice thing that happens, except - oh, Len's daughter gets together with Josette's son in the end and it's really sweet. In the entire book, these are the only good things I can recall happening.

 

#76:  Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:50 pm

Rachel wrote:
But in all honesty, did Merryn Williams really write anything worse than some of the things we do in drabbles? My own "Con" story contains underage sex, teen pregnancy, rape, marital breakdown, mental health problems, blackmail, stalking, and lots of other fun stuff - all in the early 1950's1!
I think the difference between MW and your "Con" story is that you had a definite sense of character. Your characters were very believably CS characters. When I read CCGU, I just felt like MW had sat down with a list of bad things to happen and wrote a character's name next to each item. While I appreciate it is true to life (thinking of my parents extended families and what's happened to them over the years), she never really captured the essence of the characters for me. And she really put me off Mary-Lou!

 

#77:  Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:06 am

Yes, if any one thing really bugs me, it's her treatment of ML. ML never bothered me (at least, she didn't til you lot corrupted me) and I really couldn't see her going in that direction.

 

#78:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:06 pm

Actually I thought the way Tony explained (least I think it was Tony) why Mary-Lou had changed made sense, at least to my mind.

 

#79:  Author: Ciorstaidh, Location: London PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:55 pm

That's true - I think that part of the reason I have a problem with the book as being realistic and true to MW's characters is that we don't SEE the development, whereas with "Con", f'rex, we see it straight from School through. I think Williams' other problem is trying to fit so much into one book - it covers thirty years in 308 pages, so characterisation is going to be paper-thin! I think MW was very brave to publish this in 1998 - it was really the first book or even work of fiction to actively challenge EBD and manage a semi-realistic induction for the Chalet Girls into the "real world".

 

#80:  Author: Kathryn, Location: Kyabram (north of Melb) PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:45 am

Tassie_Ellen wrote:
If any of the Australian members of the board has a copy they'd be willing to lend, I'd happily pay postage both ways to Tassie (- or maybe if the proposed July get-together goes ahead I could read it then? Rolling Eyes )
You could certainly borrow mine at the gathering (if it happens!).

 

#81:  Author: cas,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:32 pm

For those who want to read CGGU it might be worth trying your local library. I discovered it in the Portsmouth libraries whilst doing a catalogue search to see if they still had any CS books - proper ones that is! I'm glad I read it but I wouldn't buy it (unless of course I found a copy in a jumble sale). I certainly didn't think of it as a CS book - it just felt (to me) as if MW had usurped the names of EBD's characters but none of their actual character, if you know what I mean.

 

#82:  Author: jackie green, Location: Rotherham PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 2:52 pm

I have only just started reading this so I may well change my mind later, but at the moment I am enjoying it simply as I'm not taking it too seriously. I do like the way the auther talks about the characters, she doesnt imbibe them with the same sense that EBD does, when EBD writes about one of her pet characters it can sometimes be extremely cloying and almost embarassing in how 'good' they are. I do seriously love the chalet school, but the only one of the 'pets' that seriously loses a temper is Margot and she is frequently desribed as 'difficult'!!! I'm not going to go on and on about the faults of EBD/CS because we all know the limitations of the books and love them anyway. I'm just trying to explain why I am enjoying cggu. It could certainly do with being a little less 'totally the other way' though.

 

#83:  Author: LadyGuinevere, Location: Leicester PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 4:00 pm

I'm going to stick my neck out, and admit I actually really loved this book! I wept constantly (I like that in fiction.... I am so evil to my own characters) and was able to separate it enough from the originals to really like it. ~LadyG

 

#84:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 10:29 am

Good for you!

 

#85:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 8:05 pm

I haven't read it, is there any chance of someone emailing a transcript to me?

 

#86:  Author: Ann, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 10:54 pm

Whether you class it as CS or not, this is a thoroughly miserable book! It's just one tragic event after another and it completely depressed me.

 

#87:  Author: jackie green, Location: Rotherham PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 11:34 pm

Jennie wrote:
I haven't read it, is there any chance of someone emailing a transcript to me?
I dont have a transcript, but if you're willing to wait for me to finish it I can post you my copy to borrow? I shant be offended if you say no, honest,lol. I'm just returning a kindness someone else is showing me in a similar vein.

 

#88:  Author: claire, Location: South Wales PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:00 pm

On Raya's site there an extract (chapter 7 I think) from you to give you a taster

 

#89: CGGU Author: dramafreak, Location: Leicester PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 4:33 pm

I'm reading it at the moment and finding it interesting (bizarrely enough I'm finding it hard to put down). MW certainly does tip the scales the other way though doesn't she? It's from one disaster to another (totally unrealistic). Part of the problem is that she takes EBD's characters and makes them totally unrecognisable (has she ever read the CS books do you think?) Bearing in mind that the girls are brought up to have values etc., I don't think they would have lost them as grown-ups. Anyway, saying that I'm actually enjoying it. I do wish I hadn't paid the ebay price for it (when I found out on this board that I could have got it from amazon for about £6)! PS Angel of the North, if you're reading this, please finish your Marylou, Harry Potter and Narnia cross over, I really want to know how it ends.

 

#90:  Author: LL, Location: White Hart Lane - beware if you don't support Spurs :-) PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:19 pm

Jennie - I can post you my copy and you send it back, if you want? You should have asked me for it at the gather because I brought it for Abi, who wasn't there! PM if you're interested.

 

#91:  Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Devon PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:08 pm

Oh dear, after reading this thread have gone promptly to amazon and bought it! Not good for my poor visa!

 

#92:  Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:17 pm

Have just read this and actually really enjoyed it - yes there are a lot of disasters and it whizzes through 30 years, but I thought there were some really interesting developements. I actually really like the idea of ML changing her personality so that she fits in totally at school, when actually she wasn't like that at all (shades of Prunella only to an extreme degree) - although I don't think she would have for the slightest minute.Yes I know it was totally OTT, but it was a good read and I actually found Margot to be much more of a real person than she is in the CS - I thought it was very realistic that she was caught up in the Peace Movement - I'm sure i can remember seeing nuns there when I went to Greenham Common.Unlike EBD where if you make a mistake, but are a good little CS girl everything will come right, this was far more realistic in that things don't. Unfortuntately all sorts of *respectable* men do intimidate their wives pohysically & mentally.I enjoyed it far more than I thought I would having read Chapter 7 in isolation.

 

#93:  Author: Dreaming Marianne, Location: Devon PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:54 pm

OK, have just finished CCGU. Well, would agree with Ann - it is a thoroughly miserable book. Equally I enjoyed it. *scratches head and wonders what that means* MW did rather pile on the agony but would agree with Dawn when she says that this is what perfectly respectable men can do to their wives. It can be a true reflection. Did feel so sorry for Con with that ectopic pregnancy. I' glad I'ce got it but won't be re-reading anytime soon

 

#94:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56 pm

I've just read it, thanks, Jackie. I quite enjoyed it. I do see that there is a problem in that so many awful things happened to the girls as they grew older, but life was like that for a lot of other people, and still is, so it was nothing out of the ordinary, except that the triplets were simply not prepared for the realities of life once they were out of their sheltered lives.

 

#95:  Author: jackie green, Location: Rotherham PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:13 pm

You're welcome Jennie. anyone else wanting to borrow it, pm me and I'll post it on when I get it back. (no rush tho jennie, I shant want to read it again myself for quite a while,lol)

 

#96:  Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:08 pm

Thanks, I was wanting to give it a second read through, just to make sure it is fixed in my mind.

 

#97:  Author: jackie green, Location: Rotherham PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:58 pm

Jennie wrote:
Thanks, I was wanting to give it a second read through, just to make sure it is fixed in my mind.
you can give it a second third and fourth readthrough if you'd like to, honest. I've had no pms about borrowing it so there's even less rush to get it back. Laughing seriously, i meant what I said when I said take your time. One should enjoy books at ones own pace.

 

#98:  Author: Matthew, Location: Birmingham, England PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:55 am

I always find some of the comments posted regarding Chalet Girls Grow Up to be a little eccessive, as if the author had broken all ten commandments at once or something. My view is that it's quite an entertaining read (if a bit gloomy) and some of it's ideas are very good in particular how out of date the Chalet School would have came across when you move into the sixties. I also found Jack's thoughts about Joey in the runup to his suicide to be very believable (although I didn't like the actual suicide) and the parts about Margot being a rebellious nun very credible as well (anyone with a Chalet School education would have found some of the regimes she came across very difficult to accept). The one thing that certainly comes across is how much Merilyn Williams hated some of EBD's favourite characters with the flat out hatchet job on Joey and Mary Lou, and the misery she piled upon Len (despite the happy ending). It struck me to be the writing of someone who had liked the books but had became disillusioned with them by the end of the series. All in all, it is a good read if you don't take it too seriously. And if you let this book affect your view on EBD's books, I dread to imagine the effect that some of the drabbles have! Very Happy

 

#99:  Author: Gem, Location: Saltash/Aberystwyth PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:23 pm

*have just read this entire thread and am now off to ebay to try and buy a copy out of sheer curiosity*

 

#100:  Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:32 pm

Gem, if you really want a copy for curiousity's sake, you can have mine. Just PM me with your addy and I'll mail it off to you. No charge - I'm sure as bunnykins not going to read it again having read it once! Ray *Smile*

 

#101:  Author: Emma, Location: Lichfield/Sutton Coldfield PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:37 pm

Theres a copy for sale on eBay at the moment if anyone wants a copy! Im like Ray, reading it once was enough but Im keeping it with the rest of my book collection as it was a gift (thanks mum Rolling Eyes )

 

#102:  Author: Lisa, Location: South Coast of England PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:39 am

Goodness! Well, I just bought and read the book this weekend, mosied on over here to see if anyone had commented on it and what do I find Shocked I think all I wanted to say has been covered, but I'll add my shilling's worth Very Happy I struggled and complained loudly (to my husband) through the first few chapters (Len being raped Shocked ) and then settled down to read it as a book in its own right - then I quite enjoyed it. I liked the ending, and the way that Jo died (at least her death wasn't protracted and agonising with everyone rejoicing as she went - unlike some of our drabbles Twisted Evil ) and liked the concept behind the book generally. But I also felt that reading the drabbles here has given me higher standards for depth and style! It felt rather shallow as a book, with only a limited number of CS characters being referred to, and it was certainly quite depressing. I liked the way the triplets' characters developed as they adapted to what was happening around them. I think I liked the characterisation of Margot most. I suppose ( and this has been said before) that the reason a lot of us love the CS series is because they do belong to a different world, which thought we poke fun at it sometimes in the drabbles, is secure and lovely. Bringing the characters into the 'real world' (and a rather cynical one at that) rings a bit false to me, and I couldn't quite relax with it. *Off to read 'School at' with a large bar of chocolate to get that tumty feeling back again!" Laughing

 

#103:  Author: Kathye, Location: Laleham PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:09 am

I do think the book well written, and that she did bring the characters up todate, but that she didn't explore any of the characters particularly well, they all seemed to become shallow and money grabbing, which although a lot of people are, not everyone is, and I doubt with the sort of up-bringing most of the characters had that they would all become as such. I felt that she went over the top in a big way in the number of awful things that happened to people, Yes people are abused get divorced but not everyone and not all of them to the same family one after the other after the other. I found the book thoroughly depressing, especially after Lens daughter dies, I cried and cried and cried buckets, and have since done my best to blank the entire thing from my mind, cause despite the fact that she did bring some things very well up todate I dont think she gave some people the brains that they would obviously have needed. If Jem had had the nounce to set up a clinic abroad, to see the need for it, fund it and keep it going all those years, he would have also seen the end coming way before others would have and done something about it, or if he hadnt Jack would have. We seem to take there pioneering to start with for granted and have them stuck in a rut after the San is in Austria, but I just cant see them letting it ever get to the state where Jack feels driven to suicide. I also came away feeling that she didnt really like the Chalet School and possibly didnt understand the characters at all. If she had kept a few off the major disasters out of it, I would have found it a lot more credible and beleiveable but tbh by the end I was oh another cheating husband and another unhappy wife, what a surprise....NOT ! I did find it difficult to put down, but more in a watrching a car wreck about to happen sort of way than a I'm really enjoying this sort of way. I had to read it, but wouldnt overall say I would recommend it.

 

#104:  Author: Miriam, Location: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:28 pm

I thouroughly disliked the book, and have no plans to re-read it. It is sitting in my bag of books to be taken to the second hand shop aas soon as there are enough of them to justify the trip. I felt that her task in writing was to punish the girls for having been the 'royal family' and heap troubles on them in an equal degree to that which they had been favoured at school. after she has destroyed any semblence of the world that they came from, taken away their religeon, family, values, and anything else that gave them a sense of security, the are allowed to redevelop their lives, along similar paths to those they had in mind when leaving school - but with MWs 'grown-up' twist - which |I don't see as at all true to the characters involved.

 

#105:  Author: Ann, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:23 pm

I think one of the main reasons I disliked it so much was the complete lack of humour. As Miriam says, it did seem like an attempt to punish the Maynards for being the CS 'royal family' and this is something that frequently happens in the drabbles on this board. The main difference is, those drabbles aren't bleak. Even the SCS stories have some light-hearted moments and there is a sense that life is not all bad. I felt CGGU tried to cram as many bad things that could possibly happen into the lives of one family and without the lighter moments, it became almost as far removed from reality as the original series was.

 

#106:  Author: Verity, Location: Australia PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:03 am

I haven't read this one, but from the looks of things there's a lot of stuff going on - rape, suicide!?What was the aim of the book? To bring them into the 'real world'?

 

#107:  Author: Kateth, Location: Heidelberg PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:15 pm

I think Ann summed it up really well -- the first time I read it, I was in fits of giggles from the sheer novelty value of such horrible things happening to the CS girls. The second time, though, I was struck by just how bleak it was and how nothing good ever seemed to happen to anyone. Verity - I think that yes, the point was to show what would happen to them in the real world, but it wasn't a very pleasant 'real world' they were pitched into. Ick.

 

#108:  Author: Kate, Location: Ireland PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:30 am

It sounds horrible... but I still want to read it! I think I'm a book-masochist! Smile It's so expensive on Ebay though...

 

#109:  Author: Miriam, Location: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:21 am

Kate, if you don't mind paying postage from Israel (which is probably a lot cheaper than prices on e-bay) you are welcome to my copy. Let me know, and I will dig it out of the bag.

 

#110:  Author: Caroline OSullivan, Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:01 pm

It's still available on Amazon for £6.99 + postage http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0953395200/qid%3D1094813887/202-4277927-6055832 Caroline

 

#111:  Author: JackieJ, Location: Kingston upon Hull PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:57 pm

Oooh... tempted now.... May have to speak to Ben about it (if the car's MOT doesn't cost too much, anyhow) JackieJ

 

#112:  Author: Elzbie, Location: London PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:24 am

I've also got a copy if anyone wants to read it... although it really is a bit bleak! I found the nastiness of Madge Russell's daughters the hardest thing to bare- I always really liked Sybil and Josette and co. A complete contrast to the other follow on... arghh, my mind has gone completely blank! Now what is it called... I'm at work, so can't even run to the bookshlef to find it! Help!

 

#113:  Author: Rachael,  PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:39 am

New Beginnings at the CS And there's a number of other fill-ins ...

 

#114:  Author: Elzbie, Location: London PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:34 am

That's the one! Very Happy What did you think of that? I am slowly trying to collect the other fill-ins, but haven't read any yet. What is the general standard like? Would you recomend.......

 

#115:  Author: Rachael,  PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:05 pm

I would say excellent - I haven't regretted buying any of them ... there are some discussions about them somewhere on the site, probably archived so I wouldn't know where to start looking ...

 

#116:  Author: Miriam, Location: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:35 am

There was one way in which this book rings true to the original - did anyone else notice these EBDisms in it? Spoiler space for those who haven't read it and want to Rolling Eyes 1) Len and her family move back to Plas Gwyn. Joey and Jack had recieved "a very good offer" for it, and had sold the house to finance the purchase of their new holiday home at the Teirnsee. 2)Margot is described as being "small and slight" enough to fit through the rip in the barbed wire at wherever she was protesting (sorry - am not inclined to look it up) She is the tallest of the triplets, being half an inch taller than Len - not much under than six foot, and proportionately broad. While the mistakes never really bother me when EBD makes them, they drive me mad here. Does anyone else find this? I was just re-reading Visitors, and noticed that Helen McClelland comments in her introduction, "Elinors right to make mistakes did not apply to me". I think that this just sums up my general feelings.

 

#117: Better late than never Author: Felix, Location: Bristol PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:55 pm

I know that this discussion is essentially over Crying or Very sad , but I am really sorry I missed it because I did really enjoy CGGU and have read it a couple of times. Each time I have read it I have been completely unable to put it down. I just get sucked in! Of course it is very depressing with disaster following disaster, but life is like that sometimes, and despite all Joey's near death experiences, they did generally lead an essentially charmed life in the series.I agree that you can't take it too seriously but it is a fascinating study on what could have happened when they came into contact with the real world. They really wouldn't have been equipped for it. Also, I know the Marlows obivously didn't live in the real world either, but from reading Nicky's drabble (am new so am not sure if this is the right word in the right context, so forgive me if it is wrong!) you can see what might have happened had they met even slightly more "modern" people. It really was a different world. I know that is why we all love it though. Smile I also love the small "guest" appearances by people like Peggy. I think it is possible that a lot of them would have turned out like her as a result of their upbringing. If you look at the way Joey herself looking down on the beatniks on the train in Summer Term, you could apply that to Peggy almost looking down and disapproving of Margot.I lent it to a friend of mine recently who is also a CS fan and it was interesting that her opinion was that Con was obviously the author's favourite. I hadn't thought about it before but she is certainly treated more lightly and does have an interesting if lonely life. Of course though it is Len who gets the happy ending rather than her. I think she deserves it though after all she goes through.Jack's ending doesn't fit in well, but people act differently when they are depressed and can't see any light at the end of the tunnel.Anyway it makes me cry and I love a book that makes me cry!

 

#118:  Author: Joey, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:05 pm

I have to say I hated and loved this about equally. I thought it was written by someone who really knew and loved the books, and wondered - as I certainly have - what might have happened if they'd come into contact with the Real World. I didn't agree with a lot of what she wrote, but it was an interesting idea. Having said that, since she clearly can't do punctuation, she really should get a decent editor.

 

#119:  Author: jennifer, Location: Sunny California PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:25 pm

I think the most disturbting part is that, although it has a strong adult following, the CS series are *children's* books. There's something a bit creepy about taking a fairly innocent children's series, where even childbirth is referred to obliquely, and writing a sequel with rape, abuse, mental illness, drugs, suicide etc, and then actually publishing it, rather than leaving it as fanfic. I wonder what the effect would be of a ten year old, say, finding it in the store and thinking "Oh goody, a new CS book!" The drabbles on the other hand, are posted on a board consisting primarily of adults/older teens, are generally done with a sense of fun, and affection for the series.

 

#120:  Author: Mihiri, Location: surrey england PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:15 am

I thought this book was great but only if u didnt consider it as part of the series. For me it brought in all the thoughts that i had when i re-read the CS books more recently. However if i had read this book when I was a bit younger and truly belived what happened in the CS books then it would have shattered my illusions! So a gd book but not true to the series at all.

 

#121:  Author: Anne, Location: London PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:10 pm

I wasn't around for the bulk of this and have just read this. I think that the mysterious guest was MW's mum.

 

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