The School at the Chalet
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#1: The School at the Chalet Author: JosieLocation: London PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:58 am


Well here we are back at the beginning again! The book summary hasn't been transferred from the old site yet, but am presuming most people will have read this by now.

So, what do you think of Madge's decision to start the school? (can you imagine if she'd not done so! Shocked) Is Madge independent at this point, or can you already see signs of her leaning too much on the menfolk around her (e.g. Herr Braun, Herr Marani)? Do you feel sorry for Simone or does she irritate you? What do you think of Grizel? Is Juliet's 'conversion' from bad girl to plaster saint too sudden for you, or does her gratitude to Madge seem real? Who are your favorite early characters? How does the book stand as an introduction to the series? Any thing else?

 


#2:  Author: PatLocation: Doncaster PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:13 pm


I think Madge is actually being very independent for the time the book was written. In 1923 women were still tied very much to the men in their lives, especially those from Madge's background. It is almost inevitable that she would ask advise/get help from the men that she meets, and they would also expect to support her.

 


#3:  Author: StephLocation: Blackpool, Lancashire PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:50 pm


Ahh the one that started it all!
I LOVE this book Very Happy The Tirol books are my favourite of the series, everything is new, some of my favourite characters appear at this time and I feel we know the characters more intimately because there aren't as many of them.

I think Madge is independent. After all, it would take a lot of guts to start a school, let alone in a foreign country and find it quite realistic that she would turn to others when she was worried and the men seemed to be a bigger presence than the women in this book (from what I can recall, it's been a while since I read it.)
I did feel sorry for Simone at first as it mustn't be easy living away from home for the first time, especially when you are only 12, and the only French girl and the English girls know each other already. And she does seem to settle down more after the hair chopping incident.

I think Juliet's conversion was quite sudden but believable as well. She did feel grateful to Madge for treating her so decently and so she would try and settle down and help her out. And it does continue through the rest of the books, showing that the conversion does last and isn't just a whim because of what has happened.

My favourite characters from this book are Madge herself, Jo, and Gisela. (There's probably more but can't think of any at the moment).
Definately one of my favourites of the series, especially after reading the unabridged version and a lovely introduction to the Chalet School Very Happy

 


#4:  Author: DonnaLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 7:36 pm


I alwayds have mixed feelings about this book. Once I actually start reading it, I love it - after all, it's the start of the series and really does set the characters and the school up well. For some reason though, it's not a book I choose to read very often. In many ways (and for pretty obvious reasons now that I understand the history of the series better), it's the most old-fashioned of the books and although I can read most of it without noticing that it's not modern day, sometimes it suddenly jars with me, and I think that may be what puts me off.

That said, I'll move onto the questions! I agree with Pat - Madge is a very independent woman for her time and given her background it is only natural that she would look to men for advice. After all, Herr Braun owns the chalet and knows the area so he would be the best person to ask. It's a little more difficult to understand her leaning on Herr Marani - she only really knows him through his daughters, but I guess that as he was a 'gentleman', he felt he had to look out for the young Englishwoman abroad on her own.

Simone irritates me. I suppose I also feel sorry for her though - no-one really seems ot try and do anything to help her, and Joey is wholly unsympathetic - she doesn't seem to realise that most of the family she's ever known is with her, while Simone is basically on her own, with only a cousin around. But she does go a little bit over the top, and I think what really does annoy me is her adoring attitude towards Joey, and also i think the assumption on EBD's part that all young French girls are like this (just look at the later French girls in the series!).

I do like both Grizel and Juliet. The behaviour of both of them is understandable given their home-lives, and the much greater amount of freedom that Grizel was given was bound to affect her. I'm not sure I like the idea that she so easily fell under the influence of Juliet though - that seems a little unfair to Grizel's strength of character, which is clearly there under the surface. Juliet's sudden change is a bit too sudden for me, although I can see that Madge's actions would have altered her behaviour. An occasional fall from grace would have made it seem more realistic I think.

My favourite early characters would have to be Joey, Madge and Gisela. I love the way Gisela always seems to maintain her dignity, and the way she always wants to be such an English schoolgirl. And I just love Joey and Madge - Joey is such a realistic schoolgirl at this point - she does mad things, but always realises they're wrong - afterwards! I admire Madge for what she does - before jem comes on the scene, she is a strong, independent woman, and even nowadays, to go and start a business in a foreign country takes some guts - especially for a 24 year old.

Does it do well as an introduction to the series? Yes. It sets its stall out pretty thoroughly, and although it's disappointing that Madge disappears as headmistress so quickly in the series, the main characters in School at form a continuing strand through most of the books - which I think is what keeps most of the audience reading.

 


#5:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 9:57 pm


Donna wrote:
I always have mixed feelings about this book. Once I actually start reading it, I love it - after all, it's the start of the series and really does set the characters and the school up well. For some reason though, it's not a book I choose to read very often.


That's exactly how I feel about it too - but then, I've never read the unabridged version, so I may be missing out on some parts of the story.

It has just occured to me that I'm now about the same age as Madge was when the school opened (three months off 25). The idea of setting up a school at this age just seems wild - I don't think I've had enough experience of life in general to make a halfway decent job of anything like that. I'm wibbling enough at the thought of Guide camp at the weekend! However, I didn't really comprehend just how young Madge was when I read the books as a child and it all seemed quite nice to have a young headmistress. I only appreciate how much of an achievement - and how much she would have needed to rely on those around her, Herr Marani, Herr Mensch and later Jem - now I'm older.

I actually feel sorry for Simone (not just in this book but throughout the series!) She's only eleven (twelve?), it's a huge upheaval for her and she just wants Joey to be her friend. Most eleven (or twelve) year olds aren't the most rational of beings.

 


#6:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 10:36 pm


I feel sorry for Simone in this book - she obviously wants Joey to be 'best friends' in the joined at the hip, share all their secrets, inseperable sense. She's also shy and desperately homesick. Joey's a gregarious personality, who is friendly with anyone and everyone, and thrives with many friends. Later in the series I get annoyed. When Simone is 16/17, the staff are still tiptoing around her jealousy regarding Joey - by that age, it shouldn't be up to everyone else to accomodate things.

I quite like this book - it make a nice set up for the rest of the series.

Madge's 'leaning' on the men is very practical - I suspect a lot of the men in the area would have refused to to business with a woman, or at the very least not taken her seriously.

My theory on Juliet's conversion is that she was being nasty to get Madge to refuse to take her as a boarder, so she wouldn't be abandoned. Once that happened, she could revert back to the nice girl she normally was.

 


#7:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:32 am


This is my favourite book of the whole series. Madge is brilliant and a very brave person to set the school up like that. I never really appreciated the age thing for years either. I think it quite understandable that she ask for advice from the men around her, as it is nice to have a sounding board when faced with difficult decisions, and poor mademoiselle wasn't much good at decisions.

I think I like this book so much because the family atmosphere and foreigness were so different to the school I went to and hated.

I felt sorry for Simone away from home for the first time with her cousin (or parent's cousin) her only near relative and as Mademiselle lived and worked in England one wonders how well Simone actually knew her. It is only as you read the series through though that you realise what a stereotype she is.

Grizel and Juliet are characters with bad home backgrounds. Grizel reacts to the freedom given to her and goes completely over the top I think this is written to contrast agains the meek and mild characters of the others. Juliet I have always thought behaves badly so Madge won't accept her as a boarder but once she is abandoned by her parents her love-starved soul responds to the love and appreciation shown to her by Madge.

I think this books sets up good foundations for both the school and the series.

 


#8:  Author: CatrinLocation: Wirral (holidays), Oxford (term) PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:43 pm


I loved the way the Continentals were so keen to be English school girls and do everything like the books were. I think there could have been a little more of this later in the series - was this the only idea EBD didn't reuse? I'm waiting eagerly for the unabridged version!

 


#9:  Author: PollyLocation: Essex PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 2:51 pm


I like the book. Very Happy But I still have problems with Madge being able to start a school at her age, even though it was in a different country. She was very young and as far as I am aware, had no experience. Seems a very bold thing to do, and how could people entrust their daughters to her? Did she have any qualifications? EBD had some before she set up her's, didn't she?

I much preferred the original version when I read it in the facsimile anniversary copy.

 


#10:  Author: DonnaLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:51 pm


Polly wrote:
I like the book. Very Happy But I still have problems with Madge being able to start a school at her age, even though it was in a different country. She was very young and as far as I am aware, had no experience. Seems a very bold thing to do, and how could people entrust their daughters to her? Did she have any qualifications? EBD had some before she set up her's, didn't she?


But she wouldn't have needed any qualifications, even to start to a school. And remember she only starts with three pupils - one is related to her, another to Mademoiselle and the third was unwanted at home and the family knew the Bettanys personally. She only gains her other pupils by word of mouth once she's there - she basically fills a need in the area and gets lucky! There was also Mademoiselle, who was older and more experienced, so maybe the parents felt better because of her. The whole thing could have been a disaster, but there was obviously a need for a good school in the area so it succeeded.

 


#11:  Author: JoyfulLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:19 pm


Think Madge is really shown as an independent person in this book. To go abroad and start a school while in charge of your ill sister and with family or friends in the area to turn to would take a lot of guts. I just re-read the first few pages to see, and...
EBD wrote:
He knew very well that Madge had set her heart on this project, and that he had neither the strength of will nor the authority to turn her from her purpose. They were twins, and all their lives long she had been the one to plan for them both. If she had determined to start this school, nothing he could say or do could prevent her.


Not sure that she stays like this as she gets older, but certainly in this she is shown to be strong. Turning to the men (and the women) when she's at the school seems a sensible thing to do! She's still got her own strength of character which makes decisions about things, it seems to be mainly asking advice.

 


#12:  Author: RuthLocation: Physically: Lincolnshire, England. Inwardly: The Scottish Highlands PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 7:32 am


This is one of my favourites of the Tyrol years. I can read it again and again.

Madge is very independent for a woman then and her taking support from the men is only natural.

Simone annoys me in this book - she reminds me too much of a right drip at my school who wanted me to be her friend and not have any others.

I like Juliet's conversion. Her gratitude to Madge is very real and I think she feels that she owes her something.

Grizel is a pain in the neck. She is too sneering and sarcastic for my liking (She is my brother's favourite character above all the others!).

My favourite characters would have to be Joey, Madge and Gisela.

Gisela is very real and I love the way she manages never to allow her dignity to be ruffled and tries to be an English Schoolgirl.
Joey I like because she is rather naughty and Madge is lovely.

I like the way Dr. Jem is introduced into the series - I guessed when I first read it that he was intended for Madge. I was glad- he is one of my most favourite of the male characters (second to Jack!)

 


#13:  Author: PadoLocation: Connecticut, USA PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 11:04 pm


Madge certainly was a risk taker for her time, and I try not to let my modern sensibilities get in the way too much when she seems to need "a man's advice" around every corner.

I'd have liked to see more Mademoiselle Le/La Pattre, though. (Or is that in the hardback?)

 


#14:  Author: EilidhLocation: Macclesfield PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:50 pm


This is one of only two hardacks I own.

I feel sorry for Simone, I think she has been thrown into something new with people she barely knows. (Mademoiselle was a governess in England, so it's unlikely se would have seen much of Simone).

I think for the most part Madge is indepedant. There are occasions when she gets advice off the men around her, but these (as far as I remember) are normally difficult problems such as Juliet.

Juliet herself... I agree with Jennifer. If she made herself a big enough nuisance the school wouldn't have her as a boarder and so she wouldn't be abandoned.

My favourite characters are the prefects. And at this stage in the series I think Joey is a good character as well.

 


#15: Juliet Author: KirstieLocation: Ayrshire PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:59 am


I always felt a lot of Juliet's attitude stemmed from how her parents treated her and thus her change when Madge treated her diffrently. Also most of Grizel's problems seemed to come from her upbringing. Does this show EBD own understanding of problem children through her own experience as a teacher? She is often sympathetic later on to the girls who are expelled and they always have a difficult or diffrent up bringing.

 


#16:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 1:10 pm


The strangest thing I think in this book is that Madge decided to base where she had her school on a holiday 5 years previously - and a chalet she saw that was empty at that time (and still is). Unless the idea had been popping in and out of her head for 5 years I don't quite see what made her think of that as a suitable place.

It is very brave of her to start the school - and I love the way it grows and the people around support her when she possibly appeared as a 'mad Englishwoman' at first! That says a lot for her strength of character and the way she treated people decently.

Liz

 


#17:  Author: BuntyLocation: London PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:42 am


Do we ever find out how Dick and Madge knew Mademoiselle?
I do love, in the first few books, how tourists passing through the area (the Stevens, the Carricks, the di Ferraras) spontaneously decide to park their teenage daughters at a brand new boarding school set up by a twenty-four year old while they go off and cavort round Europe.

 


#18:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:57 am


I really like Madge in this book. I think it's a great shame that she ceases to be involved with the school on a day to basis so early on in the series, and that later on she hardly appears at all except when she turns up for Christmas plays etc, whilst Joey is a major figure in pretty much all the books. I'd like to know more about the Bettanys' background - why did they have a "guardian" who had muddled their financial affairs, when Madge and Dick were both over 21? & had Madge and Joey been living off the investments that the said guardian had then "muddled" until then? & it's interesting how they start off doing everything at school in English and wanting to do everything the English way, and then a few books later they're using 3 different languages and using German names for meals etc. Grizel isn't very nice in this book, but I like most of the others - because there are so few pupils at that stage, you get to "know" nearly all the girls at the school, which doesn't happen so much in the later books. It is quite weird though how people are prepared to just leave their daughters at a very new school which could've had no reputation at that point!

 


#19:  Author: eliseLocation: Zurich PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:31 pm


I love this book, too. I think it's great as a start to the series because it really makes you want to know what will happen next. I think I like it so much because there's such a family atmosphere especially as sometimes in the later books e.g. Althea, Redheads, Two Sams, the CS is hardly recognisible any more!

I first read this book when I was 12 so Madge seemed really grown up to me so she didn't seem too you at all but now I feel for her knowing they were alone and with no way to support themselves except Dick.

Grizel does come over as nasty in this book but the snapshot of her homelife is terrible - she seems really unwanted and also in her way alone.

Juliet's transformation is incredible and I'd never really thought it very realistic but then reading some of the suggestions here - that she was nasty to be sent away - it seems really quite plausible.

I loved Gisela in this book and the trick they played on her with the St. Swithen's cup was so bad because she was so keen. My favourite scene has to be tea with the Mensches but this is one of the few scenes where Simone annoys me, the rest of the time I'm sorry for her

 


#20:  Author: RuthYLocation: Anyone's guess PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:40 pm


I love this book, it's the first one i read and it made me want to read more of the series.

I think that in their position it probably was a good idea to start a school and can't imagine if she hadn't started a school.
Like people have already said I think Madge is very independent for the time it is set in. It would have been expected for her to ask the men for help and they would have expected to have to help her.
I think Simone is pretty irritating but I also feel sorry for her in a way as she could be feeling quite homesick being in a foreig country (I know Joey and Grizel are too but Joey has Madge and Grizel has always wanted to get away from her stepmother). All the other first pupils have friends/sisters in the school (gisela + Maria are sisters, Bernhilda+ Frieda are sisters, Bette +Getrude are friends and joey + Grizel are friends). She is the only french first pupil while there are 6 Austrians and 2 Brits.
You can understand Juliets conversion from "bad girl to plaster saint" quite well, imagine being abandonned by your parents, although maybe its slightly to good to believe.
My favourite Early character has to be Joey Exclamation Exclamation

Think thats about all Exclamation Exclamation

Ruth

 


#21:  Author: RóisínLocation: Galway, Eire PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:18 pm


Like all of you said, I love the intimacy of this book with its fewer characters. Gisela is one of my favourites from this book as she seems so elegant, responsible and poised all the time. Like Eilidh pointed out, all the prefects are extremely likeable in this respect! Grizel seems to me to be what EBD imagined a boy would be. She has a very masculine character for the time in that she is energetic, sarcastic, courageous and obsessed with “playing the game”. Maybe this is why she was your brother’s favourite character, Ruth. But as Elise said, the snapshot of her homelife does excuse a lot. The only thing that annoys me a little is that they are all so stereotypically from their own countries. But then again, perhaps that would have applied more than now. It was the Age of Nationalism after all and that type of feeling was in the atmosphere. I don’t think Juliet’s turnabout is unexpected in the situation. I mean, both her parents just died. All I can say is if that happened to me I wouldn’t be surprised to undergo a huge personality change in one way or another. I’m just glad she did have Madge. I like Jennifer’s and Susan’s theory about why she misbehaved in the first place.

Madge’s character in general is exemplary, but I sometimes get impatient with the way she treats Jo, for example expecting her to treat her as nothing but a headmistress Monday to Friday. I mean, the girl is a 12-year-old orphan! Be nice! For some reason, ever since I started to read this book as an eight/nine year old girl, I always pictured Madge as being the image of my sister, which is strange as I don’t get on with my sister at all (and never did), which is the complete opposite of Madge and Jo in the books. Alison H. made some really interesting points about the Bettany’s financial background which I think we must lay down as an EBDism! One thing I am wondering about and maybe someone will be able to answer – why did she insist on being called Madame? Is that not the title for a French married woman? EBD spent long enough ensuring that the various nationalities were given their titles in the appropriate language. If anything, shouldn’t Madge have been Mademoiselle, although I realise that this would have confused her with Mlle. La P.

I think Madge is incredibly brave at the age of 24 to take it upon herself to start a school. Just like Ann said in her post, I’m 24 right now and there’s no way I could take that on!!! So I have great admiration for her get-up-and-go and general pluckiness at life. But when you think about it – what other options were there for an upperclass, broke, 24 year old other than governess work? She simply took that idea one step further really. The only thing I do find strange is that she rents the chalet from Herr Braun instead of buying it outright as I think she should have done. But I suppose she was waiting to see if everything would work out. In response to Liz, I think that the idea has indeed been popping in and out of her head for 5 years, as it is presented to us at the start of the book as a ripe plan that has been fully expanded and considered. In response to Bunty, I’m not surprised that
Quote:
tourists passing through the area (the Stevens, the Carricks, the di Ferraras) spontaneously decide to park their teenage daughters at a brand new boarding school set up by a twenty-four year old while they go off and cavort round Europe.
Alison H. also found it “weird”. They aren’t tourists, they are travelling for work and I’m sure that that’s not the way the school was presented to them, either by the locals or by Madge. They didn’t have a prospectus, I know, but the view would have been that this was an exclusive, private school for a small selection of girls from the upper classes run by a “proper” English lady. Each student is an individual case as well and they all have their own reasons for needing a good boarding school for their daughters.

In relation to leaning on the men, I believe that when she first goes out there they see her as an exotic type (ie English rather than continental) of governess who just happens to have the girls come to her in her house than she visit them in their house. I think they saw it as halfway between a school (like the big high schools they had left in England and Innsbruck) and a governess-type situation, and that is why they were willing to help her out on different occasions. This, I think, is also another reason (combined with the fashions of the time, the tension after the Great War and, like Donna said, the fact that she filled a need in the area) that the school was a success at all. Unlike Polly, I’m not surprised at all, given these factors, that the school succeeded. (Also, I agree with Joyful that she leans on the women just as much as she leans on the men, but for different reasons, ie for nursing Joey back to health etc.)

Reading Susan’s post, one thing I wonder is why didn’t Mlle. take a more decisive stand? Her character is never very strong and especially not so in this first book. She’s older than Madge and at the beginning Dick is glad that Madge has an older, wiser, more experienced person to lean on but Mlle. never seems like this person to me. Was EBD nervous about portraying a French woman? I don’t see why as Mlle. Lachenais later on is a very strong and formidable character. In response to Pado, I don’t think she appears any more in the hardback than in the paperback, but I could be wrong. Certainly, her character does not stand out as doing so.

As an aside, does anyone know how they decided on the Chaletian as the name for the magazine? It just appears, decided upon, without any discussion, as far as I can remember.

School is one of the most interesting books because at this stage the series could have gone a number of different ways. The trilingualism hasn’t started yet; neither has the link with the Sanatorium or the great emphasis on health and exercise. At the end of this book, the direction seems firmly set that they would be an English school in a foreign country, teaching the foreign girls how to be properly English. EBD did an absolute about-turn, in that it ends up being an English school in a foreign country, teaching English girls how to be properly foreign. I’m glad the objective changed as I daresay we would not be as interested in the former!

The unabridged version definitely has a very different and more complete feel to it than the evilly cut PB. Overall, it’s in my top three favourite books of the series and the one I would most like to have the hardback of. Apologies for the length of this post - I've been thinking about it for a while.

 


#22:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:30 pm


Róisín wrote:
One thing I am wondering about and maybe someone will be able to answer – why did she insist on being called Madame? Is that not the title for a French married woman? EBD spent long enough ensuring that the various nationalities were given their titles in the appropriate language. If anything, shouldn’t Madge have been Mademoiselle, although I realise that this would have confused her with Mlle. La P.


It was the Austrian girls who started the habit of calling her Madame - she was Miss Bettany to the girls originally, then the habit caught on and was encouraged. It probably indicated her as being a figure of more authority, and showed more respect for her than 'mademoiselle'.

And it may not have anything to do with it, but I was taught that German women become 'Frau' after a certain age (it wasn't defined - don't know if there's a cut off point) whether they are married or not.

Liz

 




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