The CBB :: View topic - The Rivals of the Chalet School

#1: The Rivals of the Chalet School Author: Josie, Location: London

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:04 am

Okay, so here we go with Rivals...

What do you think of the introduction of the 'Saints'? Is Miss Browne really as bad as Joey makes out, or does our heroine have a bit of the 'It's our lake's about her? Does the whole Ku Klux Klan thing stick in your throat, or can you accept it as EBD's ignorance or as being 'of the times'? How does Mary rate as a Head Girl? Joey's illness and the Red Sarafan - saccharin sweet or very touching? (especially the bit with Dick's flaming orange hanky!) Did the pranks (including the infamous 'flouring of the hair' make you giggle? Did you ever try flouring someone's hair or tie their bedsheets together as a result? Is Gerry's arrival into the Chalet School universe just too much of a coincidence? How about the whole letter thing? Just *how* much did you hate Vera Smithers when you were a kid?!! Anything else?

(apologies if I've missed out any major storylines - is early Monday morning and am in the middle of a house move, so brain not exactly working at full capapcity!)

#2: Author: Liane, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:40 am

At first I thought that Jo was being a bit "our lake" but as the story progresses I really didn't like Miss Browne. She seemed totally incapable to see that her girls were also at fault. Personally I didn't like the fact that there was a mini KKK going but maybe that was just me.

#3: Author: Cazx, Location: Swansea/Bristol

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:59 am

Er what happened to Head Girl?

Rivals is one of my favourite books in the series. It's realistic that both the CS girls and the Saints are horrid to each other, though of course the CS girls aren't as bad as the saints. I find it very realistic that the feud takes a whole term to disolve. With regard to Joey and the Red Sarafan I find that bit unrealistic and part of me wishes that she had died... Evil or Very Mad

I love the scene with Dick and Jem just before the Robin turns up to sing, you really get a glimpse at their emotions there-a rare occurance with male characters in the CS. The KKK did annoy me, could not understand why CS girls wanted to recreate a racist organisation!

#4: Re: The Rivals of the Chalet School Author: Nicci, Location: UK

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 5:02 pm

Josie wrote:

What do you think of the introduction of the 'Saints'? Is Miss Browne really as bad as Joey makes out, or does our heroine have a bit of the 'It's our lake's about her?

I enjoyed the introduction of the saints, I thought it was good storyline and produced some interesting insights into Chalet school staff and girls.
I don't really like Joey's attitude - I'm not a big fan of Miss Browne but Joey takes and instant dislike based on one unfortunate meeting. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the story of Miss Browne trying to nick Joey get around the rest of the school? I didn't think that was very fair - afterall it was natural for Miss Browne to approach people with a schoolgirl.
I think Miss Browne is a poor leader and frankly it stuns me that she ever made headmistress. I think the only reason her school stayed in one piece for as long as it did was because she had some excellent staff.

Josie wrote:

Does the whole Ku Klux Klan thing stick in your throat, or can you accept it as EBD's ignorance or as being 'of the times'?

I remember being very surprised when I first read about it especially as EBD seemed an otherwise liberal and forward-thinking person for the times. I can only suppose that she had no idea of the real horrors that the KKK got up to.

Josie wrote:

How does Mary rate as a Head Girl?

Mary was head girl?? Shocked

...ok, ok. So she was a nice girl and a decent headgirl but she I can't think that she stands out remotely from anyone else. Then again, Joey does manage to once again steal practically every scene in the book!

Josie wrote:

Joey's illness and the Red Sarafan - saccharin sweet or very touching? (especially the bit with Dick's flaming orange hanky!)

Quite touching, I think. I also liked the talk between the two men - a wonderful insight and possibly one of the most memorable scenes from Joey's deathbed. [/quote]

Josie wrote:

Did the pranks (including the infamous 'flouring of the hair' make you giggle? Did you ever try flouring someone's hair or tie their bedsheets together as a result?

I LOVED the pranks!! I've often wondered how EBD knew about flouring the hair and the resultant mess it would cause! I also applaud Madge's way of dealing with the pranksters. a great end-ish to the book. [/quote]

Josie wrote:

Is Gerry's arrival into the Chalet School universe just too much of a coincidence?

I didn't know Gerry's origins when I first read Rivals so I didn't think anything of it. I thought she was great though and I always wanted to know more about her.

Josie wrote:

How about the whole letter thing? Just *how* much did you hate Vera Smithers when you were a kid?!!

Gahh. The letter thing seemed to stretch it a tad too far for me. And how the heck did she know where to post it?? ...
The King
Belsornia
East-Central-ish Europe

Shocked

#5: Author: RuthY, Location: Anyone's guess

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 5:21 pm

Cazx wrote:

Er what happened to Head Girl?

What did happen to head girl Question

I think that joey is a bit "our lake" but I can kind of understand her point of view. As the story develops Miss Browne doesn't seem to be the nicest of characters

As for the KKK the first time I read this I had no idea what it meant. Now I think about it I agree with Nicci that EBD can't have known very much about it!!

I think Mary was a pretty good headgirl. She is always described as steady and placid and these would be good qualities in a head girl. I think that in ebd's mind she was just to fill a term or to till JO was old enough.

The idea of the red saffran saving Joey is very far fetched. It's nice to see Jem and Dick's emotions.

I didn't know who Gerry was when I first read it and it didn't strike as that coincedental.

I love all their pranks!!!!

Ruth

#6: Author: Alice, Location: London, England

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:10 pm

RuthY wrote:

I think that joey is a bit "our lake" but I can kind of understand her point of view. As the story develops Miss Browne doesn't seem to be the nicest of characters
Ruth

I don't blame Joey for being 'Our lakeish', Miss Browne, had just insulted the Chalet School, including Mlle and Madge.

#7: Author: Beth, Location: Back in Durham...nearly finished a whole year!!

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:34 pm

Did Miss Browne know that the Chalet School existed? I can't remember - long time since I read Rivals, and my books are at home...

#8: Author: Róisín, Location: Galway, Eire

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:42 pm

Yep, she did know, a bit anyway. I think she says that she had heard of another school locally but thought that it was for foreigners.

What's the coincidence with Gerry?

#9: Author: Katie, MA, Location: A Yorkshire lass in London

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:42 pm

Róisín wrote:

What's the coincidence with Gerry?

She'd already had her own book, Gerry Goes to School, in the La Rochelle series, so it's a bit of an EBD internal crossover.

#10: Author: Róisín, Location: Galway, Eire

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:53 pm

Oh that's so exciting! I've never read Gerry Goes to School.

#11: Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:23 pm

I quite like Rivals and can understand at sixteen Jo being 'Our Lakeish'.

I think, especially for the time Miss Browne was a bit forward giving them one of her leaflets, and she obviously had not weighed up a lot of the pros and cons of moving her school. Lots of the girls left very soon after the end of this term.

Mary makes a very good Head Girl.

The pranks are funny. Don't like the KKK bit and can never understand it being used.

The Red sarafan is a bit far fetched but makes for good reading when sad!

As for Vera and the letters a bit far fetched maybe but a good rounding off to the story.

I had never heard of Gerry until I joined CBB so Gerry being in this book was just a new character to me.

#12: Author: Ann, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:17 pm

This is one of my favourites, especially for comfort reading. The School is still small enough to have a cosy, 'family' atmosphere to it, enhanced perhaps by the Chalet girls pulling together to create a united front to show to the Saints. The divisions between the St. Scholastica's girls (Elaine and Vera v. Gypsy and Elspeth) are an interesting comparison.

The Ku Klux Klan reference always bothered me to some extent (and until recently I'd only read the toned-down Armada version of that scene Shocked

) although I do think it was very much of it's time. Given the multicultural, tolerant ethos of the Chalet School, I find it hard to believe that EBD would condone such treatment of another human being. At least, I hope that was the case.

I've never had a problem with Jo's near death experience (although it was a coincidence that Gottfried happened to be passing at the time) - reading it as an adult, it doesn't seem likely that the sound of Robin's voice could break the fever, but it didn't jar too much reading it as a child.

#13: Author: Beth, Location: Back in Durham...nearly finished a whole year!!

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:21 pm

The problem with these book discussions is that I want to read them all, and my books are currently a Long Way Away! So, I'm not really able to comment much...

Please will somebody clarify the Klu Klux Klan business? I've only read the Armarda version, too - I have a vague memory of the middles reading all the Elsie books, and then deciding that they couldn't nail coffins to doors, and then nothing else happening...?

#14: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:26 pm

Well, Rivals is up on the Transcripts site, Beth. Perhaps we could link to the site at the start of every discussion about books if the relevant transcript is available.

#15: Author: Beth, Location: Back in Durham...nearly finished a whole year!!

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:29 pm

*whispers*

I'm not allowed to go on the transcripts site till after Thursday when my exams end...(self imposed rule!!)...cos that would mean I would get no work done, as opposed to very little... Embarassed

#16: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:54 pm

Ah, fair enough. And a very sensible rule it is, too. *pats you on the back*

#17: Author: Pado, Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:09 am

I've only read the Armada, so my take on this may be off, but...... frankly, I don't see Miss Browne's attempt to interest Joey in the school as such a terrible thing. Obviously, she had no idea who they were or she probably wouldn't have made advances.

She's quite polite - "forgive me for stopping you" - although I admit she gets rather pointed later in the conversation. Confused

But I do see how schoolgirls would take it up as a feud.

#18: Author: Josie, Location: London

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:02 am

Cazx wrote:

Er what happened to Head Girl?

Sorry, my fault. Am a bit stressed out by RL at the mo so head not exactly in the right place! We'll do that and Visitors over the next two weeks.

#19: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 5:03 pm

I also find the positive portrayal given the KKK in this book very troubling, and can’t brush it off as “the times,” given the horror expressed in American girls’ fiction contemporary to and preceding EBD. If she actually read Elsie’s Motherhood, the book from which the CS girls purportedly obtain their information, there is frankly no excuse. Check out url=http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/14566 for the Elsie e-text on Ku-Klux “outrages.” Ironically, as a convert to Catholicism, EBD would also have found herself a target of the KKK.

#20: Author: Guest,

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:14 am

The whole KKK thing struck me as something EBD hadn't thought too carefully about - culturally, for me it was like reading a kids book, and having some of the characters decide to form their own Gestapo.

Miss Browne doesn't strike me as having particularly good judgement. She sets up an English school on a remote lake in Austria, across from another English school, which seems like a poor decision, given that the other school is quite well established. She is then antagonistic towards the other headmistress on their first encounter. Pitching the school to Joey and Dick is perfectly fair, but running down the other school when she discovers Joey is a student there is pretty sleazy, even if they weren't the family of the founder.

Actually, I would guess that Miss Browne had probably wanted to run a school of her own for a number of years, and then discovered she wasn't really suited to be a headmistress, even though she may have done well as a teacher. She certainly bails out of it as soon as she can do so financially.

I like Joey in this one, Red Sarafan aside, and I love the hair flouring. It's one of the more original pranks - creative, and it freaks out the recipients, but doesn't do any permanent damage. Actually, I like this book overall. As Ann said, the school still has the homey atmossphere, and the rivalry is entertaining, and generally fairly believable.

#21: Re: The Rivals of the Chalet School Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:36 am

Josie wrote:

Is Miss Browne really as bad as Joey makes out, or does our heroine have a bit of the 'It's our lake's about her?

To my mind, there are plenty of people in the wrong as a result of that initial show down.

1) Miss Browne for running down another school without knowing a thing about it - and her snobbish comments about the head of the Chalet being French "and we know what their ideas on eduction are" are completely out of order. What was she thinking, taking her school to a foreign country if that is an example of her attitude to foreigners?

2) Joey, for going back to school and telling everyone what happened (when she's more or less said to Dick that she won't). She should know better - fair enough that she should be outraged at the time, but she pretty much singlehandedly created the bad feeling at the Chalet about the newcomers before anyone else had even met them. At sixteen, she should know that that kind of malicious gossip was not acceptable.

3) Jem / Dick / Madge for not realising Jo was likely to shoot her mouth off and forbidding her to do so. I don't think any great leap of imagination would be required for Madge to realise what a good story Jo could make of the encounter...

I love this book, by the way, and everything about it. The NKB artwork is gorgeous, the plot is a fabulous, the Saints are sympathetic characters (mainly) warped by an idiotic Head and their own slackness rather than cliche villains, Mary is worthy but slightly dull, Vera is a bit cardboard cut out at the end, but....

My only gripe is: why is Deira both Second Pree and Games Pree? I know Games Prefect isn't a Head's appointment at this stage, but surely there was someone else??

Caroline.

#22: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:09 am

This isn't one of my favourites -I thought the bit about Joey going into the lake to save Maureen and then nearly dying was a bit OTT, more like a Gothic romance than a school story! The idea of having another school there's good though. Maybe EBD should've made it a boys' school - that would've been more interesting!

#23: Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:34 am

Alison H wrote:

Maybe EBD should've made it a boys' school - that would've been more interesting!

*shoos bunny away to find somebody else to play with*

I like Rivals. I admit that I always cry when Jo is on the brink of death Embarassed

even though I know she's going to recover.

I think perhaps Vera Smithers is slightly too wicked - maybe a bit like the character in Malvina that Matey tells Jo is awful - it would have been nice to see her have some redeeming features, but I notice that even Miss Browne's expulsion speech is enough to get through to her and make a change to her in years to come (obviously not exclusively a CS headmistress trait).

Liz

#24: Author: Bunty, Location: London

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:26 pm

It makes me cry too. The bit that really gets me is when Jo manages to rescue Maureen but is herself only rescued in the nick of time. She's just *so brave*.

#25: Author: Róisín, Location: Galway, Eire

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:59 am

Re: the Klan: it does say that Margia bade the reader to skip over any “preachy” bits, so maybe they also "skipped" over any unsavoury aspects of the Klan. Maybe.

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