Peggy of the Chalet School
The CBB -> Book Discussions

#1: Peggy of the Chalet School Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:48 am


Apologies for this being a day late - I'm trying to pack! Fave scene Least fave scene And - because I know how much response this will get ( Wink ) should Jo have been as closely associated with the school as she was by this point?

 


#2:  Author: RuthLocation: Lincolnshire, England PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:22 am


Pack, KB? Where are you going? Not running away from us all I hope! Peggy has always been one of my favourite books. Peggy always stuck me as a good head girl - it might not have been expected by her discription, if I remember rightly she is very small and dainty. I think I have always liked the feud (if it could be called one) between Peggy and Elienned (or however it is spelt). There are no scenes that I dislike. I like the way Joey is so closely connected with the school - it is she who sorts out E. I like her description of words being like the chicken's feathers - blowing about all over the place and not being easy to retrieve.

 


#3:  Author: HelenLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:24 am


It is not a favourite of mine. There was something made of the Wintertons being badly behaved and they didn't seen that bad, unless they were worst in the hb. I also got irritated by the father returning after years and then criticising the mother for how she had brought the children up. Then Peggy getting in the wrong train and later bumping into Hilda Annersley's cousin. Peggy seen a little too nice and bland to carry a book. Jo? It did stretch abit her following the school like that. In Switzerland it worked because there was the San too.

 


#4:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:30 am


Ruth wrote:
Pack, KB? Where are you going? Not running away from us all I hope!
Of course not, Ruth! Didn't you know I'm going to Germany on Saturday?

 


#5:  Author: Rachael PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:36 am


Hmmm - Peggy herself is not one of my fave characters - bit too silvery and fair and pretty and twee and perfect - and you get bored of yet another person bleating about being HG - they need to get over themselves and accept the honour graciously, I'm sure it was never as much of a surprise as it's made out to be! (Quite like Mary-Lou cheering and shouting "told you so, Phil Craven", though!) Get the feeling that Dickie Christy is Second Pree because Peggy needs someone big and tough to bolster her Much prefer the characters of Daphne-no-relation-Russell and Nell Randolph (especially when she harangues the collected school at the end) Agree re the Wintertons - they seem more like normal schoolgirls than Peggy but get denigrated for it Weird beginning - took me ages to get the Lady Acetylene Lampe joke but I suppose that's just something that dates the book ... Loved the punishment of the Juniors where they all have to behave in Victoriana mode Also liked the Peggy/Eulinedd feud - not quite sure why Eulinedd thought she might be HG though - not exactly a main character previously! I like the empty-headed Blossom in this - has character but is unruly, harum-scarum and thoughtless and we really see her develop through the books which is nice ... The chicken feather analogy is inspired - one of the best Joey butting-ins in the series .... Very Happy

 


#6:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:27 am


This was the first book I read without Joey in the school - the first non-Tirol book - counting Exile. So when I read it, I was a bit confused - thinking - "hold on, where is practically everyone I've read about in the other books?" I was very thankful to have Joey turn up! And I really like her in this book. Peggy is, I think, one of my favourites. I love Mary-Lou in this book, I like the story line. Took me ages to get it because of the Lady Acetylene Lampe stuff, I thought it was another Elisaveta type storyline at first. When I was younger, I just skipped that bit coz I couldn't get my head around it. (I was only eight!) Anyway, I love this book. Basically. Smile

 


#7:  Author: ThomasLocation: Norfolk, UK Or Reading Uni - depending on the Day! *g* PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:40 am


I liked this book - Nell Randolph's cousin/uncle - the one they stay th night with in Glouster - struck me as a good character. The Lady Actelyene Lampe - I don't the part you mean and I know it was only make-believe but what's the joke you've mentioned? My least favourite scene is when the Wintertons are trying to get their mother to let them go and she nearly walks off the end of the peir. Do people really ge tthat obssed when not sleepwalking?

 


#8:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:44 am


Thomas wrote:
My least favourite scene is when the Wintertons are trying to get their mother to let them go and she nearly walks off the end of the peir. Do people really ge tthat obssed when not sleepwalking?
I know I have done! But I might be just odd.

 


#9:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:57 pm


I like Peggy. I always think Eillunedd was brought in to show that the 'Clan' do not always get tings their own way. Peggy and Co. meeting Mr Mordaunt on the journey always strikes me as a bit of typical EBD coincidence. I like the way we see the middles develop as they become in turn the main characters of the series.

Last edited by Susan on Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

 


#10:  Author: Rachael PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:24 pm


Quote:
The Lady Actelyene Lampe - I don't the part you mean and I know it was only make-believe but what's the joke you've mentioned?
Well, technically not funny - more of a play on words as they did use acetylene lamps "in the old days" Wink

 


#11:  Author: LissLocation: Harrow, London PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:52 pm


This book has never been a huge favourite of mine. I first read it when I was quite young, and got confused by the Lady Acetylene Lampe beginning, though it makes me laugh now - I find it really sweet. I think it's the only time we see any of the girls really engaging in make-believe games, and I was always doing that sort of thing. and still have been known to when there's no one else around! Again, Peggy isn't the best character in the world, but I like her when she's all worried about them being on the wrong train etc.

 


#12:  Author: KatLocation: Swansea PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:56 pm


I liked Peggy! I do prefer Dickie to Peggy as a character though - Peg's too good! It's how she comes across to me anyway. Wish EBD had focused a book on Dickie instead, and her family - much more interesting than any of the Maynards/Bettany/Russel clan (and don't get me started on Mary-Lou, has to be one of the most annoying characters!! lol!) But Peggy I enjoyed - especially the first part which describes the family life of the Wintertons, as I find it refreshing to read about the girl's lives at home instead of always being in school - makes a nice change!!

 


#13:  Author: AbiLocation: Alton, Hants PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:00 pm


Thomas wrote:
My least favourite scene is when the Wintertons are trying to get their mother to let them go and she nearly walks off the end of the peir. Do people really ge tthat obssed when not sleepwalking?
I've done that. Well, not that exact thing, but similar types. More than once Rolling Eyes I like the Lady Acetylene Lampe bit, it always makes me giggle when Peggy suddenly lands among them! I like Dickie but I do like Peggy as well. I don't like the Eilinedd bit because as someone said she is only a minor character before this so it seems a bit weird.

 


#14:  Author: RebeccaLocation: Kendal/Oxford PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:07 pm


'Peggy''s one of the books in the series I can take or leave. It doesn't help that I don't like Peggy much and she doesn't seem to have any faults or flaws (and don't get me started on her 'silvery fairness'!). I like the Wintertons at the start because they seem human, compared to super-human Peggy who I rather resent for showing them up. Reading it, I always feel like a good slap would have done her a lot of good. I haven't read it for ages but it wouldn't surprise me if I felt like slapping Mary-Lou at regular intervals in it either.

 


#15:  Author: RachelLocation: Plotting in my lair PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:01 pm


Firstly, I am very impressed by Peggy's ability to see through walls. Yes, when she is sitting on the dais waiting for first night prayers (which - hold the front page - seem to be taking place on the SECOND night - did they not hold prayers first night just because Peggy and Co were missing?!?) Peggy looks round the room at all the others and smiles at her young cousins Len and Con. A short while later, the Catholics come to join them. Wink WORST part of the whole book has to be the conversation Joey has with Sybil regarding why Madge and Jem aren't coming back to Britain as soon as expected. They discuss how much better Josette and Margot are healthwise, and how a longer visit will only make things even better. Sybil says it was her fault that Josette was so ill in the first place to which Joey replies:
Quote:
"Josette's illness certainly was," Jo agreed. "I was desperately sorry for you , Sybs, during that time - sorrier for you than anyone else, even your mother. It was hard for her to see Josette suffer, and know that ther was a chance she mightn't live or even if she did, she might never be well again. But it was far worse in one way for you. Madge had nothing to blame herself for. She's always been a wonderful mother, and she'd done everything she could to help you all. If anythig dreadful had happened, you would have known it was your fault."
Excuse me?!?!?!? Guilt trip how many years after the event? Being STILL blamed for an accident that occurred when you were nothing more than a toddler yourself?!? And Madge a wonderful mother who couldn'tt bring her daughter up to be unselfish and unspoiled? I don't think so! This whole section really grates. Am impressed with Madge producing Kester and Kevin in this book with no mention beforehand about due to be busy. I worked out she must have been about 43 if she married Jem at 26 and there is a 16 year age gap betwen David and his brothers. Maybe she thought she was going through the Change? The whole "thing" with Eilunedd seems way too contrived and blown out of any kind of proportion. And the meeting on the train is only believable in the context of EBD's own mind! Was the woman deranged or did she really think everyone you met was related to someone else you already knew?? Not enough about Polly and Lala. I thought, the first time I read this, that it would feature them very prominently as they are the first characters we meet in the book. I also expected them to struggle to settle down after running free and wild in Yorkshire for years before daddy did his reappearing trick and packed them off to school (Query: did he actually LIKE or WANT children??) The feather analogy is a good one - and one that I have used myself! And the very very best bit in the whole book is the Christmas Carol Concert - two sentences and it's all over and done with! Yayyyyy! Just my tuppence worth of thoughts Laughing

 


#16:  Author: Lisa_TLocation: Belfast PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:58 am


Peggy is such a favourite of yours, isn't it, Rachel (?) Having said that, I have to agree. I'm not fussed on Peggy either. In fact, if any one book was responsible for putting me OFF the CS series when I was tennish, it was this one. Just couldn't get into it. Even now, and even with the HB, i very rarely reread it. The Edgar Mordaunt storyline always irritates me- partly cos I'd like to hear more!!! I do like some bits. I always giggle when Joey 'gently' breaks the news to Hilda and Nell about K&K. And the stuff about the Middles is funny. When you've said that, you've said it all. Oh, and they so obviously value Senior History (!) Having a history mistress who may or may not be able to get to school indeed! Hmmph!

 


#17:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:30 am


Rachel wrote:
And the very very best bit in the whole book is the Christmas Carol Concert - two sentences and it's all over and done with! Yayyyyy! Just my tuppence worth of thoughts Laughing
Does that mean you don't like the Carol Concerts and Nativity Plays, Rachel?

 


#18:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:41 am


Rachel - I never noticed Peggy's magic powers before - very, very funny! My favourite part was the middles punishment - though their prank had been done before.

 


#19:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:50 am


Neither had I, Chelsea, even until you mentioned it. Then I reread Rachel's comments and finally understood what she meant. Obviously a 'dim' day today!

 


#20:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:55 pm


I always get annoyed with the fact that Madge is too busy to write to her own children to tell them shes not coming back but can write a screed to Jo about everything - I can just about cope with her getting Jo to tell Sybil (although she should have at least enclosed a note for her even with Jo breaking the news) but to ask Jo to write to David and tell him as shes too busy is beyond belief (and Jo thinks Madge was a good mother?)

 


#21:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:47 am


I have to admit, I'd picked up on Peggy's magic powers!!! I always wondered why Len and Con were at the protestant prayers!!!

 


#22:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:30 am


Very amused by your comments Rachel!! I've always quite liked Peggy, but the whole missing the train thing is rather strange, though at least it is different. I suppose there are only so many ways you can start these books!! As for Joeys comments to Sybil. I thought Joey was the kind of person to be kind and have wonderful insights into character. How dare she say those things to Sybil, especially as she was happy to crticise Madge in earlier books about her upbringing. I'm really wondering how Sybil grew up so well.

 


#23:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:01 pm


Vikki wrote:
I have to admit, I'd picked up on Peggy's magic powers!!! I always wondered why Len and Con were at the protestant prayers!!!
Maybe they converted while Margot was away! Wink

 


#24:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Leeds PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:13 pm


I've never read Peggy, but it seems there are quite a few interesting bits in it. I hate what Joey said to Sybil though, why didn't anyone in the books blame Madge for Sybil's spoilt behaviour.

 


#25:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:31 pm


Probably because they didn't feel that they could criticise her.

 


#26:  Author: RachelLocation: Plotting in my lair PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:54 am


Lisa_T wrote:
Peggy is such a favourite of yours, isn't it, Rachel (?)
But I DO like Peggy! I enjoy reading about her first term as HG and all the changes that come in because of the mass clear out - something that happens every year in the majority of schools! Peggy is one of my fave characters. It's just so much easier to pick out things I don't like from the books and rattle on at length about them than to say "Oh yes, I liked this book" for every BD. Obviously I like the books or I wouldn't be on this board corrupting you all with my mind, but don't be surprised if next week I start griping about Grizel smoking in front of the students etc. Wink[/i]

 


#27:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:48 am


Okay, we promise not be surprised by anything you do, Rachel. Does that help? Wink

 


#28:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Leeds PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:11 pm


Will that be possible?

 


#29:  Author: patmacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:49 pm


I agree with a lot of the details commented on above. Eulinedd must have been really out of touch with reality to think she would be HG when there was one of the dynasty available! I felt really sorry for Sybil and remember the first time reading it, thinking that Madge should have found the time to write to her children at least. Peggy, herself always seemed a bit too good to be true to me.

 


#30:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:37 pm


I used to be surprised that Eilunedd had forgotten the rule about Head Girls not being from the Special Sixth until I wrote Peace. After all, it had been in place for two years. But then I realised that, with Gillian being Head Girl for some time (as she was) and then leaving half-way through a year and being replaced by Jacynth, who was the obvious choice, she might not have been reminded of the rule.

 


#31:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:35 am


I thought Eilunedd didn't know she was to be in Special Sixth until she returned to school. Wasn't she going to so secretarial work in her father's office as she couldn't think of anything else to do? And because of her specialist timetable had to go to Special Sixth.

 


#32:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:37 am


That's what I thought as well. She figured she'd be HG since she'd be the only returning sixth former.

 


#33:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:45 am


I always had that impression too!

 


#34:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:49 am


I also wondered if she thought she'd be going home to 'help mother' and not work because I seem to remember her as being a bit miffed at having to do secreterial work but not bothering to think of anything else to do

 


#35:  Author: Adelheid PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:17 am


Peggy was my first ever CS book, and as such I love it unreservedly. However, no matter how many times I read it, there's always an "odd" atmosphere to is, as though I revert to the state in which I originally read it, knowing nothing about the School or about Jo. The Jo in that book seems quite different to me to the Jo in every other book - far more grown up! I know that when I first read it I was never clear, throughout the entire book, whether Len and Con were girls or boys, and consequently, what boys were doing at a girls school. The scene with Eilunedd and Joey and the feathers remains my favourite "morals" scene of the entire series, and I really quite like the Wintertons and their troubles in fitting, particularly Lalla.[/i]

 


#36:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Leeds PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:31 pm


*giggles at thought of Len and Con as boys* Though there aren't many girls in the world called Len, so its understandable.

 


#37:  Author: JanetLocation: Ferndown, Dorset PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:08 pm


I always enjoy reading Peggy - it's as though the first of the school's "babies" has really grown up And considering she has to walk in the footsteps of her Auntie Madge and Auntie Joey, I think she does a really good job without being overshadowed by them.

 


#38:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:40 pm


If Eilunedd didn't know she was to be special sixth until she was at the school, howcome she knew before Natalie who also found out she was being moved up at that point? I assumed she had built herself up all holidays then had been told she would be in special sixth by her parents before she returned.

 


#39:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:05 pm


Sarah_L wrote:
*giggles at thought of Len and Con as boys* Though there aren't many girls in the world called Len, so its understandable.
I remember, when I was about nine, having a huge argument with my teacher over whether Len and Con were boys' or girls' names. I insisted they were girls', she insisted otherwise. I eventually got detention for being rude. Smile Too much CS...

 


#40:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:27 am


Well, Con is definitely a girls name, but I must admit, Len is usually a boys name! (although I did have a friend called Helen, who had a phase where she decided she was going to be called 'Lenny'!!)

 


#41:  Author: AngelLocation: London, England PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:45 am


Thanks to Vikki I just re-read Peggy. Joey coming back at that time makes a lot of sense, as there were major difficulties in recruiting and retaining staff, particularly to a remote island in Wales. I rather think the loss of Sixth form is due to the move. Jack is lots better in this book (I like him in this and in Fete) but the whole Madge/Offspring dynamic is very interesting. A lot of Sybs spoiling is mentioned in the previous books, particularly in Tirol. As I read it, everyone stared at her, and petted her and gave her sweets and things, and she grew to expect it. Not so much Madge and Jem but everyone around them. I'm also tempted to write about Madge and Jem's PoV. My theory is this: Madge and Jem were planning to return in October, and tell everyone about the expected baby on their return. They postponed the trip because Madge had major complications to the pregnancy, and if she made it through the birth (this is hinted at in Jem's letter when he says about Joey not coming over) then she might well be unable to withstand much for several months to come. As for telling the children - Joey is more like Madge's oldest child than a sister, which is why I think she was told first. The letter in question was delivered by hand, and I think it might have been the case that it was simpler to trust the news to one single letter. If Madge's health was in grave danger, particularly with the menopause, then it might have been that if she died, then the dissemination of information would be done differently, and having only sent a single letter rather than several would probably be better. I'd love to see an AU of Peggy, where Eilunedd becomes the Head Girl, and Peggy is second Pree. As for running into people - Am I the *only* one that has weird things like that happen in real life? usually it's friends of friends...

 


#42:  Author: Caroline OSullivanLocation: Reading, Berkshire, UK PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:23 pm


I have a very soft spot for Peggy. It was my first CS book. I had Peggy and Mary-Lou for Christmas when I was 8. The only decent present I have ever had from those particular relatives Rolling Eyes I was very confused at first and couldn't understand why Polly and Lala weren't in the story much. To then go onto Mary-Lou was even more confusing. To add to the mess the next book I had was Head-Girl Exclamation

 


#43:  Author: CazxLocation: Swansea/Bristol PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:37 pm


I also like Peggy, although I do think it was unnecessary for Jo to bring up the accident with Josette when talking to Sybil. Maybe Sybil was spoilt because she had been the baby of the house for five years (there is a five year gap between her and Josette isn't there) so therefore had been receiving a lot of attention.

 


#44:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:52 pm


Susan wrote:
I thought Eilunedd didn't know she was to be in Special Sixth until she returned to school. Wasn't she going to so secretarial work in her father's office as she couldn't think of anything else to do? And because of her specialist timetable had to go to Special Sixth.
I agree with that, but she didn't think about it until some time after she was told, or so I felt.

 


#45:  Author: LLLocation: Tottenham to Camberwell - The London Rollercoaster! PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:20 pm


I like Peggy, she's a gr8 head girl. The Winterton's imaginary games are rather funny. Cool i sympathize.

 


#46:  Author: JanetLocation: Ferndown, Dorset PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:56 pm


Oh dear - "Perfect Peg"Not a favourite of mine (can you tell!)It's an OKish book but the whole missing the train, bumping into Nell Randolph who just hapens to be related to Miss Annersley's long lost cousin is all a bit far-fetched for my tastesI did like the scene with Eilunedd chasing the loose feathers like her loose words though - very clever

 


#47:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:11 am


You and quite a number of people, Janet!

 


#48: Peggy Author: Jane PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:39 pm


This was the very first CS book I read, from the Junior School library (I was 8, it was a hardback, I now wish I'd 'lifted' it -)) and I was utterly bemused by the Lady Acetylene Lampe... I'd still have to say not a favourite. Later that year I picked up Jo and Rivals on a bookstall and never looked back. In fact Jo was the first one I bought in Pb and then, many years later, the first one I bought in Hb!

 


#49:  Author: VerityLocation: Australia PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:58 am


I didn't mind this book, though I get a bit sick of people always pulling the same pranks - the talking in "Shakespearian" or whatever other old language has been done to death. Don't stories of old tricks get passed down in these schools? But the punishment was original though.I agree that the whole blaming Sybil thing is a bit harsh (though I haven't read the book where the whole thing happens so I'm a bit in the dark)I like the fact that Miss Annersley knew Nell Randolph's uncle - but it's a pity he was married, I was hoping for a romance for poor Miss Annersley!!

 


#50: oops! Author: VerityLocation: Australia PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:05 am


by the way - sorry for bringing up an old discussion to the forefront - I'm a newie and didn't realise it was a book per week thing!I was just browsing to see which one's I've read! Never mind Embarassed

 


#51:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:51 am


Verity you may comment on whatever you like whether it is old or new. We only kept it to a book a week to give us a timescale for the discussions - we did suggest a book a month at first to give people more of a chance to catch up but when we realised how long it would take us we changed it to weekly.

 


#52:  Author: VerityLocation: Australia PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:58 pm


thanks Susan!

 


#53:  Author: MiriamLocation: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:48 am


Quote:
Quote: "Josette's illness certainly was," Jo agreed. "I was desperately sorry for you , Sybs, during that time - sorrier for you than anyone else, even your mother. It was hard for her to see Josette suffer, and know that ther was a chance she mightn't live or even if she did, she might never be well again. But it was far worse in one way for you. Madge had nothing to blame herself for. She's always been a wonderful mother, and she'd done everything she could to help you all. If anythig dreadful had happened, you would have known it was your fault." Excuse me?!?!?!? Guilt trip how many years after the event? Being STILL blamed for an accident that occurred when you were nothing more than a toddler yourself?!?
I never read it so much as blaming Sybil - rather Sybil has grown up with an awareness of her resposibility in this case. She has always lived in a doctors house, where there is a very high level of awareness of health. She knows that Josette is delicate, and that her delicacy stemmed from this accident - of which she knows that she was the cause. (Totally aside, why do we hear nothing of this delicacy in the intervening books?) Especially as she gaets older, I think it reasonable that she would be aware of this, and without neccesarily feeling guilty, would feel a certain sense of responsibility. Especially in this situation, I don't consider it unreasonable that she would remember this accident, and bear it in mind when reacting to some unpleasent news. As far as Eilunedd thinking she would be HG goes, I don't think she would have realized the significance of Peggy being one of the Family - after all, she is the first one since Jo, so their automatic right to HG was not so established. And she didn't have the benfit of reading the books, so she probably didn't realize that she was only a minor character!

 


#54:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:43 pm


Re: the guilt trip that Jo lays on Sybil.Well, does my memory serve me right, or did someone who was much older than Sybil was at the time of the kettle incident, sneak out of school to go to a strictly forbidden ice-carnival, trip over and nearly get her fingers sliced off by a doctor who just happened to be skating past. And was that the same someone who was always doing what she had been forbidden to do, making herself ill and causing all sorts of trouble for other people who had to look after her?A case of pot and kettle?

 


#55:  Author: jenniferLocation: Sunny California PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:06 pm


Quote:
"Josette's illness certainly was," Jo agreed. "I was desperately sorry for you , Sybs, during that time - sorrier for you than anyone else, even your mother. It was hard for her to see Josette suffer, and know that ther was a chance she mightn't live or even if she did, she might never be well again. But it was far worse in one way for you. Madge had nothing to blame herself for. She's always been a wonderful mother, and she'd done everything she could to help you all. If anythig dreadful had happened, you would have known it was your fault."
This lecture gets me. Firstly, Sybil was *10* when this happened - she would know she wasn't to play with the kettle, but really, do you hold someone responsible for an accident made as a young child for the rest of their life? Better to say, 'yes, she was injured when you were misbehaving, but you were just a kid at the time, and you'd never do anything like that now, and Josette is fine. Don't keep blaming yourself" Secondly, it was Madge and Jem who helped contribute to her spoiling. If your small daughter is petted, praised and indulged by everyone due to being the youngest in the family and beautiful, and all you say is things like "she's very aware of her position as the daughter of the house", and don't even attempt to pull her up until other people start complaining that she's unbearable, then I would not say "she's always been a wonderful mother". Thirdly, (and I think this has been discussed before), leaving a less than responsible 10 year old in charge of a five year old in an old fashioned kitchen with a kettle on the stove and no adult supervision whatsoever (Josette was scalded, carted upstairs and undressed before it was noticed, which would mean that there was no adult close enough to hear screams), could easily be desribed as neglect, and certainly doesn't count as "nothing to blame herself for". Think of Deira throwing the rock at Grizel in Head Girl. A 17 year old prefect burns a fellow students notes for revenge for an imagined insult, and then badly injures her by throwing a rock at her. She's forgiven as soon as she shows remorse. Margot throws a bookend at a classmate at a similar age, again causing a head injury, and is obliquely threatened with expulsion, but again, doesn't have any long term guilt trips laid on her.

 


#56:  Author: LauraLocation: London (ish) PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:33 pm


A very good point... and I never appreciated the severe case of pot, kettle and black before now! Incidentally I hate the scene with the feathers! Eilunedd is irritating and rather self-obsessed equally it's all a bit too deep for me..I probably wouldn't even have got it! And Joey is so unbearably condescending throughout the entire even it kills me. I mean uuuuurgh.

 


#57:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:45 pm


Just have this imagine now of Eilunedd turning to Jo after the words are like feathers comment and saying 'you're right, everyone notices how you tend to shoot your mouth off and insult people without meaning to, Mrs Maynard'

 


#58:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:29 am


Miriam wrote:
As far as Eilunedd thinking she would be HG goes, I don't think she would have realized the significance of Peggy being one of the Family - after all, she is the first one since Jo, so their automatic right to HG was not so established. And she didn't have the benfit of reading the books, so she probably didn't realize that she was only a minor character!
Very Happy Well put Miriam

 




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