The Gang
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#1: The Gang Author: JosieLocation: London PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:03 am


Please discuss Vi, Barbara, Doris, Lesley, Hilary et al here...

 


#2:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: New Mexico, USA PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:07 pm


When "The Gang" is at its largest--seeming to comprise half the form--I hate it. It's clique-y-ness at its worst. I know this doesn't sound like a very rational assessment of it, but I do loathe it.

I especially loathe it in Barbara, when Miss Annersley makes sure that The Gang can go off on the expedition by itself while splitting up other pairs of friends. In this same expedition, Mary-Lou dictates the walking arrangements for The Gang. It is the one time I remember where Mary-Lou is warned against being too bossy.

In the same book, when Mary Woodsley is bullying Barbara, she's frightened when Vi comes to confront her about it because Vi is the member of The Gang.

I like the individuals in the Gang (Hilary, Doris, Vi, etc.), but I hate it when they become a unit and start being exclusive about who is and isn't in The Gang. It just seems like the popular clique at school who can set down rules and break them as they please, who can exalt a girl to popularity and then ostracize them in the same day.

The Gang reminds me of middle school (ages 11-13), when the popular cliques and cattiness were at their worst, and I hated middle school.

I wonder if this is just an over-emotional reaction?

Chang

 


#3:  Author: ChairLocation: Rochester, Kent, England PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:38 pm


I also like the members of The Gang separately but I don't like the way they're allowed to always stay together and trusted to go off as a group. Is that very fair on the others?

Also, how do you become a member of the Gang? It's mentioned in the books that Barbara and Jo could be as friendly as they liked but despite being a great friend/cousin of the Gang, you had to have certain qualities. But other people seem to possess these qualities as well. Maeve never seems to be a member of the gang and neither does Clare, even though they both seem to be very nice people.

 


#4:  Author: PadoLocation: Connecticut, USA PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:18 pm


Changnoi wrote:

The Gang reminds me of middle school (ages 11-13), when the popular cliques and cattiness were at their worst, and I hated middle school.
Chang


Ooooh, me too. It's the whole alpha girl phenomenon, which is, as they say, a sickener. (Often literally these days, alas.)

 


#5:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:38 am


The Gang as individuals were nice people as has been said, even though we never see much of them individually, thanks to their leader.

Like others the gang remind me so much of early days at secondary school.
I think the membership qualities were in EBD's mind, as she couldn't have everyone joining The Gang and she was grooming them all through the early Swiss years for prefectship. The gang were satellites to OOAOML as Frieda. Marie and Simone were to Jo - though we did see more of them.

I wish we did see more of The Gang members as individuals perhaps even defying OOAOML and having none Gang members as friends.

We do see more of them when they do get to be prefects but even then they are so much in Mary-Lou's shadow.

 


#6:  Author: StephLocation: Blackpool, Lancashire PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:01 pm


Having just re-read A Chalet Girl from Kenya, it really struck me how exclusive the Gang really was. It's often repeated that the Gang led the rest of the form by the nose and that Mary-Lou led the Gang by the nose and it really gets on my nerves how clique-y it is as Chang said. I would have loved to see more of the other members who are sadly underused such as Hilary and Lesley and the lovely Vi but there are so many of them they are relegated to the odd line. Half the time I can't even remember who is a member and whose not- in Kenya there are apparently 12 members but I couldn't for the life of me remember more than about 8 or 9!
As some people have said, this reminds me of the 'popular' girls sets that were in high school and if you weren't 'cool' enough they just didn't want to know. Rolling Eyes

This to me is one of the group of friends that I don't really like- they may be friendly, fun girls but their exclusiveness just doesn't sit well with me and it's around this time that ML starts to become really bossy and over- bearing, probably because of this power she has by being leader of the Gang.

 


#7:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:48 pm


I think there are some girls (like Lesley and Hilary) who are merely there as 'members of the gang' and are rarely or never mentioned in any other capacity!

Liz

 


#8:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:26 pm


I feel the same way about the gang, especially regarding the patronising comment to Jo Scott that she had been on trial and was now a member (though she obviously wasnt all that impressed by what she found as she never seemed to be a member later Wink )

In a way I think the situation had probably happened at other times, just that the *others girls* arent always mentioned all that much in the books, and always seemed to make a friend of two of their own from the leftovers, so that it didnt matter. It's when a group gets so big like the gang, that those who arent members are more noticable in their exclusion.

Im also quite a fan of Vi Lucy and feel rather miffed that she was relegated to the background!

 


#9:  Author: MiaLocation: London PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:12 pm


Has anyone ever made a definitive list of the Gang?

Mary-Lou Trelawney
Verity Carey
Doris Hill
Vi Lucy
Barbara Chester ?
Lesley Bethune
Hilary Bennett

?? My mind's gone blank and my plot bunnies are biting away at my ankles like anything! Laughing

 


#10:  Author: SquirrelLocation: St-Andrews or Dunfermline PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:26 pm


Another list, from Barbara paperback could come back as this:

Lesley Malcolm
Catriona Watson
Christine
Ooao
Verity
Vi
Ruth
Barbara
Hilary.

Could Lesley Bethune be an EBDism of a mix with Lesley Malcolm?

Hmmm, just thought about it, I know ML, verity, Vi, and Barbara. As for the rest, who Question I know the names, and sometimes they might get a line or so, but I don't know them

 


#11:  Author: MiaLocation: London PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:31 pm


Squirrel wrote:
Could Lesley Bethune be an EBDism of a mix with Lesley Malcolm?


Actually I think that was my mistake. Thanks Squirrel, I am scribbling away now! Smile

 


#12:  Author: SquirrelLocation: St-Andrews or Dunfermline PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:11 pm


Sounds good - I'm looking forwards to it.

 


#13:  Author: ChairLocation: Rochester, Kent, England PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:23 pm


I think Christine's surname was Vincent. Jo Scott and Josette Russell were also members of 'The Gang'.

 


#14:  Author: BethCLocation: Worcester, UK PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:44 pm


I think there might be a later book which mentions both Lesley Bethune and Lesley Malcolm, quite close to each other - maybe someone pointed it out to EBD and she decided to make it deliberate? Not sure whether it's meant to be just one of them in the Gang, though.

*Have just looked, and they're both in the list of prefects in "Richenda"

As for the Gang, as others have said, I like most of the individual members, but the concept grates a bit. As well as the whole "in crowd" thing, they're so easily led by OOAO when some of them have so much potential.

*joins the Vi Appreciation Society*

 


#15:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:48 am


+ Doris Hill [who was left behind in England]
+ Jo Scott

Josette appears to be part of the gang at one point, but not later.

--Could Lesley Bethune be an EBDism of a mix with Lesley Malcolm?

Bethune was a year older, but when the main four go up a year, the two Lesleys end up in the same class.

I agree with the general opinions of the gang. You can compare Bride's group, which had a number of strong characters, interacted with each other and with other girls, and had no primary leader, with The Gang.
They were exclusive to the point that girls had to audition to be part of the group, dictated pretty much everything to their peers, and were led around by the nose by Mary-Lou, and were indulged by the staff. It's the worst type of cliquishness, and was just the sort of activity that made me miserable when I was that age.

On the other hand, it was pretty much inevitable with Mary-Lou as part of the group. You can't really see her relegating her control for something more egletarian, and with the way the staff lets them control things, no one else in the group would stand a chance. There's a point in one of the early Swiss books when Mary Lou had a sprained ankle, and misses a trip, and the rest of the gang is much less cohesive when she's not around.

 


#16:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:54 am


I think it's quite realistic that a "strong" (being polite!) character like Mary Lou would've had a "gang", but everyone else seems to be led by the Gang, and the staff all seem to approve of the Gang, whereas in reality that sort of group tends to cause friction because classes get split between people who are part of the gang and people who aren't. They are all individually nice people though.

 


#17:  Author: KirstyLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:27 pm


The list I had for the Gang that I used for a Sale bookmark came from Kenya I think (someone else supplied it for me!) and consisted of:

OOAO
Verity
Hilary
Ruth
Christine
Catriona
Maeve
Vi
Josette
Barbara
Lesley
Jo

I'm pretty much of the same mind as most others - The Gang seems to be the most "exclusive" of the groups of girls from various times in the books, and everything & everyone revolves around Mary-Lou. I'd've liked to have seen more of the satellites at times.
Not a group I'd've been happy with if i was on the outside at school.

 


#18:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:34 pm


Clare Kennedy?

I don't tend to think of Ruth as a member of the Gang after Changes as she doesn't go out to the Platz (although isn't there an EBDism surrounding her?), whereas Doris does return during Coming of Age. I'm not sure about Catriona and Christine either as they're usually referred to as 'inseparables'. I think of them as occasional hangers-on rather than 'proper' Gangmembers.

 


#19:  Author: ChairLocation: Rochester, Kent, England PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:29 pm


Ann wrote:
Clare Kennedy?

I don't tend to think of Ruth as a member of the Gang after Changes as she doesn't go out to the Platz (although isn't there an EBDism surrounding her?), whereas Doris does return during Coming of Age. I'm not sure about Catriona and Christine either as they're usually referred to as 'inseparables'. I think of them as occasional hangers-on rather than 'proper' Gangmembers.


What was the EBDism about Ruth?

 


#20:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:03 pm


Ann wrote:
Clare Kennedy?


Not according to Mary-Lou:
Quote:
Here [Mary-Lou] was joined a minute later by several of the Gang and Clare Kennedy, who was not of it, but was friendly with all its members.


Of course, this may be contradicted elsewhere...

 


#21:  Author: ChairLocation: Rochester, Kent, England PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:08 pm


Sorry, KB. I thought Anne was talking about Ruth Barnes.

I have just finished 'Mary-Lou of the Chalet School' and I noticed that when they had the St Nicholas Night, Hilda Jukes and her friends wanted to sit in some seats. Hilary and a couple of others came along and said they were their seats and got Mary-Lou to back them up. Is this totally fair on Hilda and her friends?

 


#22:  Author: KatherineLocation: London, UK PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:26 am


Weren't a couple of members of the Gang there saving the seats? Don't have the book on me to check though.

 


#23:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:12 am


I remember The Gang telling Hilda & Co that they'd saved the seats - it seemed a bit mean on Hilda and the others to me, but I suppose it was usually accepted at school that you could save seats for your friends. There was a gang of about 9 girls in our class at school who used to do that - they used to shove past you in the corridor if you looked like getting to the classroom first! That sort of clique can be really annoying!

 


#24:  Author: ChairLocation: Rochester, Kent, England PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:34 pm


Sorry. I hadn't been totally sure who had been there at the seats first. There used to be a group of girls at my school of various ages who were always allowed to sit at the back of the school bus, regardless of who got there first.

 


#25:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:57 am


We all used to sit in the same seats on the school bus every day! Woe betide anyone who sat in someone else's seat!

 


#26:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:01 pm


Wasn't 'The Gang' totally against the spirit of the CS? I know the oft-repeated sentence about not interfering in the girls' friendships, but on occasion their behaviour seemed very much like bullying to me.

 


#27:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:04 pm


They generally meant well though, which is probably partly why it wasn't clamped down on.

And I don't recall instances of someone wanting to join the Gang and being disgruntled because they're not included - unlike the jealousy stories in a lot of the later Swiss books.

I wonder if it's more like circles of friends - Mary-Lou had her closest friends - Verity and Vi are probably the most likely candidates for that - and then the gang is the next circle of her friends (she being the common factor, hence the fact they don't gel together in quite the same way when she's not there) - and then there's a larger circle that most of the rest of the form are in. Because Mary Lou is a dominant personality it's more noticeable than in some other forms, where if there's several strong personalities, each with their own circle of friends, the overall influence is more evenly spread out.

 


#28:  Author: SquirrelLocation: St-Andrews or Dunfermline PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:40 pm


That is probably more like what EBD was aiming for I would imagine. It's interesting though, I know that ML is the strongest character in the form, but I would not have said that Vi or one or two of the others were less than strong. And when I think back, it's a bit like the quintette, except that there are far more of the satalites. After all, doesnt the make up of the 5 change every now and again, but the main 2 Corney and Evvy remain the same most of the time. They are the strong characters there, and have teamed up, And that combination does cause some squalls with new girls - Joyce Linton for example.

 


#29:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:46 pm


The girls do seem to get a lot nastier/bitchier in the later books - Jack picking on Jane, Janet Henderson picking on Adrienne, Francie picking on Ruey, etc. There's a bit of that in the earlier books - Eilunedd and Peggy, Diana and Bride etc - but it's not so much on a "direct" basis, if that makes sense! The Gang always seem to be presented in a positive light because the staff seem to think that they're a good influence on the others, but it can't've been very nice for people who were left out of it and had to put up with Mary Lou & Co dictating things.

 


#30:  Author: PadoLocation: Connecticut, USA PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:34 pm


Jennie wrote:
Wasn't 'The Gang' totally against the spirit of the CS? I know the oft-repeated sentence about not interfering in the girls' friendships, but on occasion their behaviour seemed very much like bullying to me.


But wasn't it a nice naughtiness? Wink

 


#31:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: New Mexico, USA PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:13 pm


LizB wrote:
wanting to join the Gang and being disgruntled because they're not included - unlike the jealousy stories in a lot of the later Swiss books.


Although this is from the earliest CS Swiss book, Mary Woodsley, although she does not say in so many words that she wants to join the Gang but can't, she does a) wish she were friends with Vi but know she can't be, and b) realizes that the Gang wields a great deal of influence and is fearful of upsetting them.

Chang

 


#32:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:40 pm


Chair wrote:
Sorry, KB. I thought Anne was talking about Ruth Barnes.


I was!

 


#33:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:27 pm


Then why did you write Clare Kennedy with a '?'? I presumed you were asking if she was in the Gang. I never mentioned Ruth Barnes, because I wasn't sure either way about her.

*confused*

*although that's not difficult at the moment*

 


#34: Gang Author: mohiniLocation: india PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:32 pm


I always liked the gang and the individual members. I like th eidae of gang.
Usually if you are friendly with one girl (as in best friend) , people tend to leave you alone if your friend is not there. As a member of gang you can be friends with more girls.
I have no experience about hostels, but when I was in college, I had 3 friends. One was interested in Animals like me and we would go to attend the WWF meetings. The other was interested in reading like me and we used to discuss books and attend book exhibition, the last was intrested in drawing like me and we went together to art exhibition. Two of them were interested in debating and so they used to go to discuss those things together.
The whole class connot be long to one group Commonlly there is a leader or a group of girls who take lead and usually the other girls are ready to
follow. Only if there is another girl with strong personality do clashes occur.

 


#35:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:11 pm


KB wrote:
Then why did you write Clare Kennedy with a '?'? I presumed you were asking if she was in the Gang.


I was asking about her too! *clearly doesn't make any sense*

*shuts up and goes away*

 


#36:  Author: JosieLocation: London PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:16 pm


Ann wrote:
KB wrote:
Then why did you write Clare Kennedy with a '?'? I presumed you were asking if she was in the Gang.


I was asking about her too! *clearly doesn't make any sense*

*shuts up and goes away*


You're making perfect sense, Ann, don't worry! What you wrote was quite clear.

Ann asked about Clare and this has been answered, but Chair asked about the EBDism surrounding Ruth and what it was. Does anyone else know cos Im curious myself and am sure other people are too?

 


#37:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:04 am


Josie wrote:
Ann asked about Clare and this has been answered, but Chair asked about the EBDism surrounding Ruth and what it was. Does anyone else know cos I'm curious myself and am sure other people are too?


I *think* Chair may be getting her Ruth's mixed up.

Ruth Barnes is clearly in the gang more or less from when she joins the school (remember the impertinent questions fight that form has after she gets teased by Phil Craven for 'cheating' with her maths prep? It's in Island), goes to Switzerland with the school and stays more or less in the same form and dormy as M-L all the way through (til M-L, Vi, Hilary and Lesley accelerate away from the others in Genius). She's a prefect when M-L is Head Girl. I don't remember any EBDisms with her.

Ruth Herbert is the one who vanishes after the St Briavels books - sister of Bess, Nan and Madge, she doesn't appear to go to Switzerland when her sisters all do, and it's only ages later than we discover she's been killed in a car accident (we're told in Ruey I think). Mind you, she never featured very much in the first place...

 


#38:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:33 pm


Thank you Caroline, that seems to have cleared things up! I thought I vaguely remembered there being an EBDism surrounding Ruth Barnes which was why I mentioned it but I s'pose I must have just imagined it Rolling Eyes *headdesk*

 


#39:  Author: ChairLocation: Rochester, Kent, England PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:45 pm


Thanks, Caroline. I have to admit I had forgotten about Ruth Herbert but thanks for telling me all the information about Ruth Barnes.

 




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