The CBB :: View topic - Theodora and the Chalet School

#1: Theodora and the Chalet School Author: Rachael,

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:04 am

A summary of this book may be found here Starters for discussion: Fave/worst scenes? What do you think of her name and any objections to Joey shortening it? How would you feel if a breezy woman whose connection to you new school is unclear, graciously offered you the chance to "start again" and "make good"? Is Ted's "conversion" realistic? Er ... views on Margot's behaviour? *runs before the onslaught!* Opinion on Mary-Lou's trenchant butting-in? Anything else?

#2: Author: Rachel, Location: Plotting in my lair

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:21 am

Joey and the name changes. Wasn't Jo lucky that all these girls had names that COULD be shortened? What would she have done if the poor child had been called "Anne" or "Mary" frex? Would the have lengthened their names do you think? And why why why why WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY do all the shortened names have to be so masculine?!?!? That is one thing that really irritates me, especially with a lovely name like "Helena" being shortened down to "Len". I find it particularly bizarre that EBD chose all these masculine names when she herself decided to change her name to, what was it, oh goodness, sive like brain strikes again, I want to say Marguerita Rosamarta but I KNOW that's wrong! Anyway, when EBD chose to call herself by a different name at college, she certainly didn't just opt for a masculine version of ehr own name! If I had been Theodora, I think I would have been writing home to my evil parental unit that they were all mad at this new school and I would rather come home and take my chances with her! And once again we see Joey being made privy to another girls home life and information about the circumstances of her joing the CS. Yes, I know it was necessary from a plot POV that the reader know about Ted but surely Hilda could have been discussing the new girl with the form teacher and filling HER in on the background instead of us always having to hear it from Joey, so to speak. Moving on, I found the smallpox threat very convenient. Considering the school as a whole has only just narrowly avoided a scarlet fever epidemic, I felt the timing was wrong to have another major communicapble disease rear it's ugly head. I say ugly, I have no idea. It may be quite pretty when examined under a microscope, but the symptoms are definitely not rpetty. What would have been more interesting qould have been to have one of the girls actually going down with the lurgy. It has some fantastic sypmtoms, and takes ages to fully develop and then go away, and they are infectious from the seventh day after contact . . . I digress. Allowing Ted, len and Rosamund (?) to spend so much time away from the CS and let Ted learn to speak languages fluently in such a short space of time is just eeww. Come on, when has a new girl EVER struggled to keep up in lessons after three days of German speaking? I shall leave the whole Margot question for now, mainly cos my fingers are hurting after this rant. it wasn't meant as a rant, honest. I like this book! Trouble is, I always find far more to say about the bits I don't like than the bits I do like!

#3: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:15 pm

One thing that got me was the 'Exciting whirl of Summer activities" that Ted was supposed to be involved in. Where were they? I really don't call a Sunday ramble followed by a smallpox vaccination, followed by three weeks in quarantine an exciting whirl. Quite apart from this, it was a case of yet another girl allowed to start in the Summer term, though of course the School doesn't allow this. If Ted's mother wanted to go on a cruise, why couldn't Ted have been given some wholesome family life with May Carthew, as was, and then started in September? I found the episode of the clock a bit off. The whole thing seemed very contrived, to allow Margot to have a major episode of her devil, so we could see that thanks to OOAO, Margot began to be a reformed character. That's another thing that was contrived. The staff would never, in RL, allow OOAO to rearrange the half-term trips as she did. They would have told her to mind her own business, and go where she was told, Head Girl or not! That said, it wasn't bad, and was fairly interesting on the whole.

#4: Author: Ann, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:37 pm

I didn't think Ted's reformation in any way believable. If she were a real fourteen year old, as soon as she had the 'Ted' conversation with Joey she'd have been indignant that everyone seemed to know her business and promptly would have started trying to cause as much trouble as possible. Although Margot's jealousy is slightly implausible given that she has had Emerence as a close friend for years, I actually quite enjoyed the fisticuffs between the triplets. OOAO's role in events is completely unnecessary - Kathie Ferrars could have come across the fight and she would be more than competant dealing with the problem. I couldn't really see why Mary-Lou berated Len and Con for their faults when Margot's crime was so much more severe - surely she could have just had a gentle word with them after all the fuss had died down? I do quite like this book - I just wish Ted had had the opportunity to play a mischievious prank or two.

#5: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:45 pm

I don't think either Len or Con had done anything wrong - and OOAO berating Len for butting in is a real case of pot calling kettle black! Other thing I didn't like was Mary Lou laying into Ted for her past misdemeanours - why? The poor girl has been the picture of the good girl, her only fault was to be targeted by and blackmailed by Margot. Margot's behaviour has been mentioned before on other threads - I felt it was extremely nasty and showed Margot as a thoroughly unpleasant character. No amount of EBD trying to show her as a reformed character later made up for that. Ted herself, why the name change anyway? Because Joey didn't like it? Suppose she had turned round to Joey and said that she liked her full name? Although very off-beat - I liked the scene where Hilda turns hairdresser!

#6: Author: jennifer, Location: Sunny California

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:21 pm

The mandatory name change irritated me, as I dislike having my name shortened. You could ask, but insisting is presumptuous. The 'you can make it good' speech didn't grate as much. Ted was probably expecting to be treatened as a hardened criminal, and being told that her previous record was to be ignored could be a relief compared to being told that if she messes up she'll be expelled. I've never seen the point of berating Con for saying what she thinks rather that covering up what's going on. She generally doesn't say anything malicious or untrue, and it's often something that cuts though to the heart of the problem. And OOAOML telling Len not to butt in! That's the speech the staff should have given Mary-Lou when she asked to have her half term shifted so she could meddle with the younger students. And as an aside, I did want to swat Jack over the not telling Joey part. I could see delaying a report while she's in labour, or immediately out of childbirth, but refusing to tell a mother about problems her daughter is having at school seems presumptuous and patronising, particularly given that this is a persistant problem with Margot. As far as Margot goes, someone should have told her a long time that it doesn't matter whether she has a 'devil' or not - she's responsible for what she does. Age 15 or so is a bit old to be blaming your imaginary friend for your misdeeds.

#7: Author: Donna, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:01 pm

I can never make my mind up as to whether I like this book or not. I like bits of it, but some bits really annoy me - especially the whole ML butting in and telling Len and Con off - shout at Margot certainly, but why the other two? The idea of telling Theodora she has a fresh start is a good one - but it should have been a teacher, if not the head, telling her! Joey shouldn't have been allowed near the situation. I also see the reasoning behind the shortened name, but did it have to be Ted?? Apart from anything else it meant I used to get her mixed up with Tom and Dickie! Margot has a real evil streak, and an episode of blackmailing and bullying like that would have resulted in at least suspension in the school I work in. btw Rachel, EBd called herself Patricia Maraquita at college!

#8: Author: Rachel, Location: Plotting in my lair

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:23 pm

Donna wrote:

btw Rachel, EBd called herself Patricia Maraquita at college!

Cheers hun - I knew it was something ultra feminine and girly!

#9: Author: Steph, Location: Blackpool, Lancashire

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:56 pm

Have just finished reading this book today (good timing!) and the impression that I got was that this book is about the triplets and their problems rather than about Ted. To me, Ted seems more of a plot device to show how the trips are reacting to each other and growing up. Apart from the fact that Ted is worried she might start thinking about 'mad deeds' to do, there is nothing else wrong with her and her situation is dealt with in less than half the book. The rest is taken up with the Maynards and ML. I don't think ML had any right butting in like that. It was Margot at her worst and needed an adult to sort the situation out. As it was, she got off much too lightly IMHO. Having said that, however, I did enjoy the book. Made a change to see a girl settle down without trying to cause trouble/run away etc and did like the scenes between the trips, although Margot is one nasty piece of work and deserved a lot more punishment than she got. The scene where Len slaps her is one of my favourites and I think she deserved nothing less. OK rant over Razz

#10: Author: Rufus,

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:12 pm

I agree with most of the rants but then I do like so much of this book. The use of Ted's hair is great - can't remember that many instances of bad hair days in the CS. Though I have to say Hilda playing hairdresser freaked me out a little. I just wish Ted really had lost her temper and completely weighed into Margot.

#11: Author: Ally, Location: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!!

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:14 pm

I certainly agree that the book is more about the triplets growing up that Ted. It does seem that they go through a dramatic period of adolescence very very quickly, but at least EBD is showing that people don't always get on all the time - its not just the strange new girl who is having trouble. The problem about the triplets, which shows itself here quite clearly sometimes, is that because they share Joey's qualities, they are never rounded characterisations themselves. Margot is totally OTT in places, and is not pleasant, yet she was a Maynard, and therefore EBD had to be nice to her. If she had been someone else, perhaps she wouldn't have been so kind (re Grizel) Con gets told off for tactlessness - how often is Joey tactless? - very often in the early books! The only good bit was Len being taken down a few pegs, but why by ML?? Will stop ranting now.........

#12: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:37 am

I found the way Joey stood up for Ted from the beginning quite appealing. (I know, I know, it wouldn't do at all in the typical modern school, but Jo counts as pastoral care as far as I'm concerned, and would have heard about it anyhow from Carty. Admittedly I preferred the opening scene to the one in which Jo shares the letter with all and sundry in the staff room -- not so sure ALL the staff are above holding Ted's past against her.) Taking a new name to go with a new start has plenty of history behind it, and this reasoning made Ted's renaming more plot-driven than the average CS name-shortening. As far as how one regards a particular name -- that's very individual, I think, having to do more with one's own early history with the name than anything else, so as long as Ted didn't object, no problem.... In my own opinion, Theodora is a perfectly good name (gift of God and all that), but Ted also has positive connotations, whereas replacing Helen(a) with Len -- yech! Ted didn't really need much converting. The ready and genuine friendship offered by Len & Rosamund and an atmosphere in which learning wasn't ridiculed would probably have been sufficient. Being able to practice the German out of the public eye also would have made a big difference in my book. (Of course I was/am a total chicken about class participation in general. There is no doubt this helped steer me into nice dead languages and classes with clear "right answers".) Margot, fume

This is pretty much her nadir. But the only scene that seemed really "off" to me was Hilda as hairdresser. Unless you count EBDisms, such as Ted being kicked out of the Beehive at age 9, but then, a chapter later, being publicly expelled in her 3rd year for bareback riding at age 10.

#13: Author: Lula, Location: Midlands, UK

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:09 am

Kathy_S wrote:

But the only scene that seemed really "off" to me was Hilda as hairdresser.

I didn't like that bit either... it seemed rather odd, and my main feeling about that is, why bother? I don't like Joey's butting in, and, if I were Ted, I'd want to know who she was and why she knew all about me. Ted, in my opinion, doesn't really have a 'conversion'... she just has real friends now and doesn't feel the need to drag herself down. It's not really a conversion. Margot... well, it's all been said before. I didn't like Mary Lou's way of handling the whole thing... she may be Head Girl, but that doesn't give her the right to butt in at every opportunity. Maybe she has some right to do so with the triplets because they're meant to be her friends (well, they were in Three Go, anyway), but I do NOT think that she should have lectured Con and Len so much. They hadn't done anything wrong as such - with the exception of Len's slapping of Margot, but I have to say that that was well-deserved (and one of my favourite parts of the book). This is one of my favourite books, it's one of the first I ever read as well.

#14: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:52 pm

Yes, I find the whole Mary-Lou part of the book highly implausible. For a start, she would never have been allowed to muck around with the half-term arrangements, and for another thing, she might have been correct in telling them off when Len slapped Margot, but her input should have ended then. It was none of the school's concern whether Emmy gave Margot an expensive clock, and if it were the School's concern, it should have been dealt with by the Head, NOT the Head Girl. It was not her business to interfere or to pronounce any judgements as she did. Con was not being tactless when she blurted out that Margot should not have encouraged Emmy to buy the clock, she was absolutely right. And Len ought to have been left out of it - she was only behaving as Jo and OOAO had always done. As for what Mary-Lou said to Ted - she would have been very right if she had complained that Mary-Lou had been told about her past educational history. She was supposed to make a fresh start at the CS, so no other girl would or should have been told about it.

#15: Author: Ruth, Location: Lincolnshire, England

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:07 pm

Theodora is a nice name - if it had to be shortened it could have been made Dora, surely. I don't usually like short forms of names (Ru is my short form!) I much prefer nicknames. I think Joey's talk with Ted would have made an impression on her. No-one must have ever spoken to her in this way about her behaviour otherwise she would not have been expelled from so many schools. Ted's reformation is quite believable. Any girl her age, in those surroundings could not fail to feel the influence of girls who have been taught the correct way to behave under authority. Margot's behaviour towards Ted is awful - she has Emerence as a friend so Len has every right to have a friend of her own. If I had been Len, Margot would have had a thumping!

#16: Author: Gem, Location: Saltash/Aberystwyth

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:19 pm

I actually quite like this book, but Hilda playing hairdresser does seem a little "off" to me as well. Regarding Mary-Lou's interference - typical! I would have thought that Kathie at least would have told her where to get off, considering New Mistress. I think it's good that Len and Con got told off, but that should have been saved for another time - it wasn't for OOAO to say, and it wasn't entirely relevant at the time. I actually felt incredibly sorry for Margot in this book - it just felt unreal to me that a girl of 15 could act in this way, and I always thought that there was something more behind it than EBD was telling us, for example Jack ignoring Margot after it happened, and refusing to tell Joey. Now THAT annoyed me. Overall though, a pretty good read. The friendship between Len, Rosamund and Ted is lovely, as is Con's growing friendship with Odette.

#17: Author: claire, Location: South Wales

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:44 pm

Ruth wrote:

Theodora is a nice name - if it had to be shortened it could have been made Dora, surely.

But Joey didn't like Dora (sound's like Mother's Good Girl)

#18: Author: Lulie, Location: Middlesbrough

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:54 pm

claire wrote:

Ruth wrote:

Theodora is a nice name - if it had to be shortened it could have been made Dora, surely.

But Joey didn't like Dora (sound's like Mother's Good Girl)

And wode betide you if you had a name that Joey didn't like!

#19: Author: Beth, Location: Back in Durham...nearly finished a whole year!!

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:33 pm

What gets me every time with the name shortening - as long as my memory isn't deceiving me - is that while Joey is trying to work out what a good short would be, she says something along the lines of "Ted - that's good. I wouldn't call a dog I liked Theodora, but I would call it Ted". I'm sorry - a dog?!?! That's awful! The other thing is the clock - I don't think I've ever fully grasped why it was such a terrible present? Surely Emmy could spend as much as she liked on a present for her friend? As for the rest - I think it's all been covered...

#20: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:36 pm

I think the clock was considered way too expensive a present from a non-family member. I agree that these days it would be up to Emmy how much she spent, but I think that Jo & Jack were pretty strict about that sort of thing.

#21: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:13 am

My family would likewise have had cat-fits about the clock. It's hard to explain why, exactly, but partly it's the ethos of never letting yourself be beholden or accepting favors you can't return. (still makes it hard to ask for help) And it's pretty clear Margot knows her family's attitude, or she wouldn't have hidden the purchase. Odd she doesn't notice the much more serious problem of blackmail! It sort of reminds me of the (not entirely serious ) ) song in which the heroine, having killed off her family one by one, doesn't deny it when confronted by the police. "To do so she would have had to lie -- and lying she knew was a sin, a sin...."

#22: Author: Nell, Location: London, England

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:29 am

And theres the fact that Emmerence should have handed the cheque over to bank and not kept all tht money herself. I like this book especially the development of Len and Con's friendships with Rosumund, Ted and Odette, but agree that some of the aspects of it like ML's butting in on the triplets row with Emerance and Ted are just too much. Yet another example of ML being in the right place at the right time and taking n a role that should really have been dealt with by the staff.

#23: Author: Chelsea, Location: Your Imagination

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:34 pm

Quote:

It sort of reminds me of the (not entirely serious ) song in which the heroine, having killed off her family one by one, doesn't deny it when confronted by the police. "To do so she would have had to lie -- and lying she knew was a sin, a sin...."

I was listening to that on my way in to work today! I don't like the fact that Mary Lou was told the story of Ted's past or that Len, Con, Ted got lectured for the incident that was Margot's doing. Especially as Len is lectured essentially for being her mother and ML. Though, I suppose one is only supposed to but into stranger's lives, not the lives of your siblings Laughing

#24: Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:45 am

I really enjoy how Ted starts to fit in and be part of a group (rahter than a ringleader as has happened at previous schools) but DO NOT like ML being trusted with extremely confidential info and then butting in fume

BTW re the Tom Lehrer song (she did everyone of them in, them in....) - did anyone see Mastermind tonight where one of the specialist subjects was Tom Lehrer? I got most of the song questions before he did (only cos he had to wait for the very long winded question to finish) but was hopelessly lost on the where was ...recorded etc

#25: Author: MissPrint, Location: Edinburgh

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:22 am

Oh blah, missed it, and I'd have been so good at the Tom Lehrer questions. "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" is one of my most favourite songs ever.

#26: Author: kate86, Location: Essex, England

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:12 pm

I must admit that I do like the part of the book when Ted learns German (and French?) with the help of Len and Rosamund. It is unbelievable, but it always made me think not all hope is losti n learning languages! I always thought Ros was a sweetie, in the end she had a lot more right than Margot did to be jealous of Ted, but never made a fuss. I agree that the book is a lot more about the tension between the triplets than really about Ted, and i like the way that COn comes across, and breaks from her 'story-book world' though it is decidedly unfair the way that she is percieved for speaking out, presumably what everyone wanted her to do!?! I do like names that are shortened to boys forms, i must confess Embarassed

#27: Author: Ellie, Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:08 pm

The events in this book are mentioned so often in the later Armada's that I was so desperate to get a copy I splashed out thirty quid on a 1st ed (chicken feed to some of you, I know, but it's the only time I've ever paid that much for a book) so perhaps it was inevitable that after al the anticipation the book was a bit of let down, for me at least. Since Margot was always less close to the other two trips than they were to each other I found her jealousy rather unrealistic. Obviously EBD wanted some form of plot device to show the triplets interacting and disagreeing with one another, and equally obviously, given the roles she had already marked out for them, Margot had to be the instigator of any unpleasantness. This book definitely does not show her (Margot) in a good light, and she definitely got off too lightly. I agree that the other two did not deserve to be berated by Mary Lou for their actions, and I only wish that the staff had told ML to stop butting in. I have to say that this is the bok where ML, and the staff's attitude to her began to seriously annoy me. As for Ted (horrible short - Theo would have been better) apart from her past history - and her hair- she seems fairly unremarkable really, and I agree that she was introduced as a plot device. I feel a little sorry for Emerence, she wanted to buy Margot a special gift as she knew she would be leaving, and she obviously never lacked for money so she wouldn't have have seen the clock as outrageously expensive, she must have felt really awkward when the clock caused so much trouble.

#28: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:42 am

Really, the only interesting thing about Theodora is her home situation, and of course, EBD used that only as a plot device to get the CS to allow her to start there in the summer term.

#29: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:08 pm

I've always loved this one as it was one of the first ones I read. My copy is the 2-in-1 with Trials, and I found it to be so much better than Trials. My favourite scene is where Ted confesses all to the Sister and she makes her own peace with her past and resolves to try harder in the future. I found that to be very realistic. I didn't like Mary-Lou coming over the complete head girl - what right did she have to lecture the girls like that?! As for her advice to Len... *cough* hello pot, I'm kettle! *cough* Agree it should definitely have been one of the staff to handle that. And not another behind closed doors scene with the head - it's pretty irritating when you're dying to know how Miss Annersley would handle something as serious as blackmail! Didn't mind Ted's name being abbreviated (much prefer it to Theodora or any other short that can be derived from that name). Agree with whoever said that in today's world, Joey could be seen as like a pastoral worker in school, and I find it quite realistic that Ted would take to the idea of new name, new start. Most kids that I've met in school take that sort of thing better from non-teaching staff. Teachers get looks off the kids which say "you're staff, you've got to say that." As for Margot's behaviour, well it really is dreadful. Maybe EBD had an idea of the plot for "Triplets" and wanted to give a hint of what was to come? (ie, what someone on here once called the 'Betty and the bookend' incident)

#30: Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:15 am

I have to differ with some of you. I always rather liked the hairdressing incident, partly cos it was so unusual! Also, as I'ved just said over on 'Mary-Lou' a hair change can signal a personality change. I think that's what it's meant to do here, especially coming after the name change. Margot- I've said what I think about this before, repeatedly and at length. I'll bore you if I say it yet again! Wink

Joey not being told always irritated me but I bet she found out sooner or later. Mary-Lou, too, is too OOAOML in this, but perhaps EBD realised that since ML would leave that term, this book was the last chance for ML to play a really major role, and it followed from that. BTW, I'm not certain how much ML knew about Ted's background. Didn't she ask for further details after Margot spilt the beans re the expulsions? Although I seem tor emember the staff telling her- you know, I don't think Hilda would have approved of *that* part if she'd known beforehand.

#31: Author: JackieJ, Location: Kingston upon Hull

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:37 pm

ML was told about Ted's background by the staff. I think it was Kathie Ferrars and Mlle who told her when she asked if she could join their expedition. JackieJ

#32: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:44 pm

And that should have remained classified information.

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