The CBB :: View topic - Who would you kill off?

I'd have killed Jem off quite happily at virtually any stage in the series. Or, if he never arrived on the scene at all (the San being opened by some married older medic), and the car crash had killed off only Mrs Carrick, what about marrying the subsequently reformed cad Lindley to Madge...?

At one stage I was contemplating writing a drabble about Jo dying in child-birth when she had the triplets, I thought it would be interesting to see Jack bring up the triplets as a single parent.

Reg!

He could have actually been killed in the flood in Prefects, leading to a hilarious scene where Joey, Hilda and co. tell Len, expecting her to be devastated, and Len basically shrugs her shoulders. Then she reveals that when she talked to Hilda about marriage and so on, with 'her future being settled' she had actually just decided that she didn't want to get married at all. Then she says she thought Reg was a fearful prat.

Reg!
He could have actually been killed in the flood in Prefects:D

It also occurred to me it might be interesting to think about who you wouldn't kill in the CS.

I think that it could have been interesting if a few peripheral characters had died during a bombing raid at the school. Obviously fairly tragic, but it would have been interesting to see how they coped with the grief (sorry for being morbid :oops:

)

I seem to vaguely remember a discussion on here a while back in which someone said that the stilts idea is one used in a country/countries in RL. I could be making that up entirely, though - can anyone help me out?

And finally Betty in the bookend accident. I would love to see how the Maynards coped with Margot going to gaol for it and how Margot coped with leaving gaol.

A long time ago (2003 I think) we had a communal drabble on the board detailling an alternate ending to the bookend saga - in that Margot was expelled. I think it's still in the archives.

I don't see how Hilda or Len could have hidden it simply because Betty's best friend Alicia witnessed the whole thing and how could Hilda live with herself for protecting a murderer especially as it would mean Margot could potentially do it to another pupil

If that came to pass, believe me, Elma, I should send you away. I couldn’t take the risk of keeping you here with the others. It wouldn’t be just to them.”

Almost blind with fury, Margot snatched up the first thing that came to hand - a heavy bookend - and flung it straight at her head. Betty tried to dodge, but she was not quite quick enough. Len had tried to catch her sister's arm, too, but all she did was to deflect her aim slightly so that the bookend struck Betty on the side of the head instead of full in the face, and she went down like a pole-axed ox.

Mrs Linton is one - if she had died after she had found out that Joyce was (supposedly) expelled rather than recovering. I think even the saintly Gillian would have had a hard time not blaming her sister for that, and the dynamics of their relationship would have changed completely.

It would also be a change to see one of the TB sufferers at the San actually succumb to the disease - we're told there are several girls whose parents or relatives are "slowly dying" up at the Sonnalpe, but none of them ever actually seem to die. The school and the community would have had to deal with the loss of one of their own.

but given the way Len succeeds in making even Alicia say nothing when she's witnessed her best friend possibly being killed - I mean, when it's not yet obvious that the injury isn't fatal - by a fellow CS girl in a rather frightening blind fit of rage,

I was thinking the other day, one of Joey's children really shouldn't have lived past infancy - I know Margot has bronchitis and Phil, polio, but they both recover well - but that's unlikely. Also all her mutiple births, I feel should have resulted in some more sickly children.

Most children's books don't deal with this issue even now - unless the book is specifically about that issue. And in a series the favourite characters are rarely killed. For example in the Babysitter's Club Series Ann M Martin does a book that deals with the issue of death but it's not a regular character who dies but some random we've never met before.

The main exception to this rule that I can think of is Harry Potter. Quite a few prominent characters die in that, but even then none of the Big Three (for which I am very thankful. It would have been far too upsetting!).

I agree that it would be interesting if one of the more heavily featured characters had died - why not kill off Mary-Lou in the toboggan accident and keep both camps happy - those who wish for more dramatic effect and those who just can't stand her. :twisted:

For example in the Babysitter's Club Series Ann M Martin does a book that deals with the issue of death but it's not a regular character who dies but some random we've never met before.

There is Marie Dobson's death, which is chillingly but brilliantly handled by Antonia Forest, but I can't think of too many others - other than in wider classic girls' fiction, where you get things like Beth's death in Good Wives, and Ruby Gillis's death in the Anne of Green Gables books.

I was so shocked by the reaction to Marie Dobson's death. Chilling isn't strong enough.

MJKB wrote:

I was so shocked by the reaction to Marie Dobson's death. Chilling isn't strong enough.

I think that's why it is so brilliant. In real life we don't care about everybody who comes into our orbit - and when we hear X has died of a massive heart attack we say "oh that's sad" move on and never think of them again.

I suppose Eilunedd comes the closest, but I'm not sure I see even Margot when she's at her most bullying and unpleasant as games prefect, using her position to get some disliked junior dropped from a team...?

I was so shocked by the reaction to Marie Dobson's death. Chilling isn't strong enough. I disliked Miranda immensely, horrendously cruel and exclusive.

Sorry about Kingscote digression in a CS thread!

Loryat wrote:

For example in the Babysitter's Club Series Ann M Martin does a book that deals with the issue of death but it's not a regular character who dies but some random we've never met before.

You seem to be forgetting the death of Mimi in Claudia and the Sad Goodbye.

Um, not that I know most of the series off by heart or anything!

Ruby Gillis's death in the Anne of Green Gables books.

Reg starts off being uneducated and of a lower class than the Maynards, but they (the Maynards) manage to refine him to make him into a suitable upper/middle class character. But he's so drab. What would have happened if they hadn't done this, or he had refused their offer?

Author:	julieanne1811 [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:13 am ]
Post subject:	Who would you kill off?
Sunglass said: Quote: I'd have killed Jem off quite happily at virtually any stage in the series. Or, if he never arrived on the scene at all (the San being opened by some married older medic), and the car crash had killed off only Mrs Carrick, what about marrying the subsequently reformed cad Lindley to Madge...? At the risk of sounding horribly morbid, this comment made me think. I don't like Jem either - he's just too self-confident. He doesn't seem to consider others' opinions and what hesays is 'the truth' so there's no arguing or disagreement. I don't like, also, the way he treats Jo when she meets his long-lost sister. He is incredible rude and bullies Jo - doesn't he actually man-handle her on the street? Anyway, I wondered who you would kill off, why, how and who would replace them to change the story-line? I've only just got up so I don't have any original ideas myself at present, but once I'm awake I might have an idea of my own ... edited for typos.

Author:	Carys [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I would have been quite happy if Jack had actually died in Highland Twins, as it would have given Joey a chance to be independent and she would not have been dosed everytime something went wrong-she would have to learn to stand on her own two feet. At one stage I was contemplating writing a drabble about Jo dying in child-birth when she had the triplets, I thought it would be interesting to see Jack bring up the triplets as a single parent.

Author:	Liz K [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Carys wrote: At one stage I was contemplating writing a drabble about Jo dying in child-birth when she had the triplets, I thought it would be interesting to see Jack bring up the triplets as a single parent. Why don't you? Sorry, I'm not feeling too original myself right now, can't think of anyone I'd kill off other than Jem for the reasons Julieanne1811 gives; only I'd say he's overbearing rather than too confident and yes, the way he treated Joey over Margot was too much, there was no need for it whatsoever.

Author:	ChubbyMonkey [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Poor Jem - you've made him cry now look! I would have killed off OOAO - not in the toboganning accident, then it would have been someone else's fault. I would have had there be a giant storm that Bill gets stuck in (because she deserves more on-screen time towards the end of the series!) and the other mistress with them tells the prefects to take the girls home and ring for help. Only OOAO, being OOAO, won't listen and insists on staying. I would then have had her not only make the situation worse so that everyone gets very peeved with her, but catch a cold which turns into pneumonia so that at last we get someone actually die from all these near death chills! ...Not that I have anything against OOAO or anything

Author:	emma t [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Good question!The men in the seriel do seem to be too over protective of their women, but maybe that is because like Jem, he may have been brought up by Victorian parents or a generation of Victorians, and so be quite strict in the way he handles things. But I agree, that he and Jack should not go around dosing their wives when they are a little upset! The one person I would see killed off is Mary Lou! I know I am probably going to get so many up in arms responses to this, but she is too good to be true sometimes, taken into confidences when she should not be and whose opinion is always asked for. There are others in the books who are just as nice, if not nicer, who could be the leader of The Gang, and I just sometimes find ML too much at times.

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Who would you kill off? http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7405

Author:	RubyGates [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I think this thread might turn into an anti-Mary-Lou thread because I'm another one who could quite happily have killed her off. She is just sooo domineering and bossy and I hate the way she has this exclusive little Gang around her. I probably only feel that way because I was such an outsider at school and never got to be part of any gang.

Author:	GotNerd [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Reg! He could have actually been killed in the flood in Prefects, leading to a hilarious scene where Joey, Hilda and co. tell Len, expecting her to be devastated, and Len basically shrugs her shoulders. Then she reveals that when she talked to Hilda about marriage and so on, with 'her future being settled' she had actually just decided that she didn't want to get married at all. Then she says she thought Reg was a fearful prat.

Author:	janetbrown23 [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I thought of Mary-Lou too but at least she is well meaning. the one I would really like to kill off is the nasty Jack Lambert. I find it hard to think of any redeeming features for her.

Author:	Alison H [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Hey, lay off Jem! When Madge stresses about needing to lose weight before Peggy's wedding, Jem tells her that she's fine as she is. Any man who makes nice remarks about a woman's weight issues is all right by me . I would quite like to kill off Jack Lambert. Mary-Lou's Gang might have been annoying but at least they didn't go around bullying people they didn't like, and at least Mary-Lou did try to help people like Jessica when no-one else did. Jack was just a pain. & I'd kill off Joey as well. Maybe someone could give her a good slap after getting on the receiving end of one of her remarks about how everyone should have 27 kids - did it never occur to her that some people are unable to have children because they have no partner or have medical problems? - and accidentally knock her over the edge of a cliff.

Author:	Amanda M [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Another one here who would quite happily get rid of Jack Lambert. I find her character a bully with no redeeming features. Even when EBD writes about her being nice she still really irritates me.

Author:	Sarah_G-G [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I'm not sure there's any character I dislike enough to want them killed off for that reason, but there are a few that would be interesting to kill off because of the repercussions i.e. Joey, Jack, Mary-Lou, Jack, Len, Margot, Miss Annersley, Miss Wilson. Before anybody kills me for wanting to kill off Hilda and Bill, can I just re-iterate that I don't want to kill them, I'd just like to know if the school could function with them gone! Similarly with the triplets, how would they function without their third? Would it alter their characters at all if they were without the responsable/ dreamy/ naughty one? Robin as well, what if she had developed TB and died from it? How would Jo have reacted? Would she still have been Head Girl and wanted to stay with the school afterwards, or would there have been too many memories? I know a few drabblers have done this over the years and it always fascinates me how the series or a group of friends would be affected if the leader weren't there. I have a vague feeling that somebody wrote an alternative ending to Rivals years ago, where Joey died, and I did the same thing with Mary-Lou plus there have been a couple where Jack died in the war, and of course Lisa's (?) recent one where Margot and Jack are both dead.

Author:	julieanne1811 [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I would kill off Reg, too, GotNerd. He just seems like a bit of a waste of space, especially when Elinor could have given Len a really fun character - perhaps one who was different than the other Alpha males in the books. Reg starts off being uneducated and of a lower class than the Maynards, but they (the Maynards) manage to refine him to make him into a suitable upper/middle class character. But he's so drab. What would have happened if they hadn't done this, or he had refused their offer? I know that Elinor says that he's clever and is being denied the education he deserves, but that simply seems to be a way to get him changed so that he could marry Len. How about if Len and he had a very unsuitable relationship and planned to marry, then he got killed off, and Len was comforted by a sparkling character who she then married? And sorry, Alison H, I still think that Jem should go. If he'd died early-ish in the series, Madge could have been left alone with a selection of children, Joey could go to help her and Jack could take over the San as First-in-Command. This could take Joey out of such close proximity to the school, allowing for stories with a slightly wider focus - girls of relatives in the San (I know this was done but I do think that if Jack was in charge and Joey was more there than the School the focus could be widened). Madge, though, might well become a much more peripheral character, although perhaps she could go back to do some teaching (Joey looking after her family)? OOAO? Um ... not sure. She does provide an oppotunity to closely follow a new character through the school over several years. And she's more interesting than Reg. In real life, though, I would not have liked to have been her friend. Although I do think that Joey can be more overbearing than OOAO. I can't remember which book it's in, but she's walking down Oxford Street when a girl calls out that she thinks Joey is her aunt (?). Joey takes the girl and her chaperone into a shop resturant and even tells them where to sit ... If I was a out with a girl of whom I had charge (thatdoesn't sound right somehow) and we met someone who then forced us into a place for coffee, telling us where to sit, I would be furious!!!! And Sarah_G-G, I don't want to really kill them either - I think you have just expressed very nicely where I was going with the original thought ...!

Author:	Sunglass [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I'm delighted to find I inadvertently kicked off such a blood-thirsty thread! I remain interested in what might have happened instead if you killed off Jem early on - if it happened early enough, might Jack have fallen for plucky, pretty widowed Madge, coping alone at Die Rosen, instead of Joey??? Especially if Jem's dying words were 'Look after Madge for me...' GotNerd wrote: Reg! He could have actually been killed in the flood in Prefects, leading to a hilarious scene where Joey, Hilda and co. tell Len, expecting her to be devastated, and Len basically shrugs her shoulders. Then she reveals that when she talked to Hilda about marriage and so on, with 'her future being settled' she had actually just decided that she didn't want to get married at all. Then she says she thought Reg was a fearful prat. I love this idea, especially the notion of Len 'opening her eyes widely' at the expectation she'll be devastated by Reg's death, and saying 'But Auntie Hilda, you were the one who made me realise how awful it would have been if I married him, after you said all that grim stuff about darning his socks and pouring out his coffee every morning! That woke me up to what a selfish prat he was, trying to stick a 'reserved' sign on me before I left school, probably so he could eventually weasel in and take over the San from Dad! And Mamma - with respect, butt out of my affairs. I'm off to Oxford to play fast and loose with an entire rugger team if I like!' It also occurred to me it might be interesting to think about who you wouldn't kill in the CS. If EBD had kept Mary-Lou's father alive, and killed off Verity's instead, then Mary-Lou wouldn't have been guilt-tripped into trying to live up to her heroic father's reputation and might have been able to relax, be ordinary, and not be Joey's substitute butter-in as much. And of course she wouldn't have become Verity's 'sister-by-marriage', and Verity might have stood on her own two feet and remained the stubborn individualist she was in her first term....?

Author:	julieanne1811 [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
GotNerd wrote: Reg! He could have actually been killed in the flood in Prefects:D This has made me think of something rather OT, but I'll say it while it's in my mind. In which flood is it that someone suggests that the rescuers (? Jack M) use stilts to enable them to go through the flood? Honestly - think of stilts in a flood - unstable to start with, let alone in running water, you wouldn't be able to see the ground so it would be highly likely that you'd step onto a stone or rock, and the fact that such slender poles would sink into the mud. I think even children would have seen through this one ..!

Author:	Alison H [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Sunglass wrote: It also occurred to me it might be interesting to think about who you wouldn't kill in the CS. Elisaveta's husband. There are many deaths which are very poignant but do serve a purpose - Herr Marani's, for example. Killing off Raphael served no purpose whatsoever and I've never understood why EBD did it. We hardly see Elisaveta after the war, and she'd lost so much already - why couldn't EBD just have left her and her family alone . I would also keep Ted Humphries alive. I think he and Margot Venables would have made a good couple, had he not inconsiderately died shortly before she turned up. Obviously I'd keep Margot alive as well (I think the poor woman was bumped off just to avoid having another adult female cluttering up Madge and Joey's world), so that they could live happily ever after, with Robin as a big sister for Daisy and Primula. Although maybe she'd've been better with someone a bit more reliable. &, as Sunglass said, Mary-Lou and Verity might both have turned out very differently had Prof Trelawney not died. I wouldn't kill Reg: I'd keep him alive so that Len could tell him exactly where to stick his excuse for a proposal, that she objected in the strongest terms to him speaking to her father about her behind her back when she was only 15, and that everyone who said that he was going to "get what he wanted" was going to have to think again .

Author:	ChubbyMonkey [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I seem to vaguely remember a discussion on here a while back in which someone said that the stilts idea is one used in a country/countries in RL. I could be making that up entirely, though - can anyone help me out? I wouldn't kill off Reg, but I think we all know why I might have suggested looking at the repurcussions of Bill dying, but I get the nagging feeling that that's been done already. I just can't quite think where... I think that it could have been interesting if a few peripheral characters had died during a bombing raid at the school. Obviously fairly tragic, but it would have been interesting to see how they coped with the grief (sorry for being morbid )

Author:	Newiegirl [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Ooooh good thread! I would kill off Hilda. Not out of spite, I like her, but because I think it would be really interesting if Bill was left coping on her own and to see how she handled her grief as well as the extra responsibility (Bill is my favourite character).

Author:	Abi [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
ChubbyMonkey wrote: I think that it could have been interesting if a few peripheral characters had died during a bombing raid at the school. Obviously fairly tragic, but it would have been interesting to see how they coped with the grief (sorry for being morbid ) But unlikely to have made it into a GO story, I fear - surely it would have been bad for morale during the war, apart from anything else? Though I do agree it would have been interesting. I don't think there's anyone I really think ought to have died, though there are plenty it would have been interesting to see die because of the repercussions. I wonder, for example, what would have happened if Deira had killed Grizel when she threw the stone at her?

Author:	Rob [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Oooh interesting! My bloodlust is thoroughly roused and I have have several potential candidates for a visit from the Grim Reaper: Jem (possibly Jack too) - for the reasons previously given. Jem - very early on in the series, probably sometime around Sybil's birth; I'd then have had Madge remarry Carol of Belsornia (they always seemed to get on pretty well) in order to give Elisaveta a secure family unit and plenty of support when she had to escape due to the war; also so that the school could swank about being owned by Queen Margaret of Belsornia. Jack - at some point, mainly so Gottfried and Gisela could have been President and First Lady of the Platz. Joey - alternatively, Jo could have died in childbirth (either with Mike or the 2 Fs). This would mean that Robin could have stayed in the series to look after Joey's children and that Madge wouldn't have been ousted as family liason with the school. Len - the Maynards would have gone to peices had Len not been there to organise them - this might be fun to watch. It would also have meant that Con and Margot could have developed more than being 'dreamy' and 'bad'. So long as lecherous Reg didn't decide one triplet was as good as another! As for those I'd keep alive: Mlle Lepattre - it would have been interesting to see how the school developed during and after the war if Mlle had remained in charge. There was also always much more a sense of partnership between her and Madge, which was never there with Miss Annersley (who was just an employee) which was nice to see. It would also have meant that it would have been easier to keep Simone in the series as she could have visited her cousin, even had she married and moved to Paris as she does in the series. Jacynth's Auntie - whilst it was lovely of the Lamberts to take in Jacynth, I think her Auntie was possibly the most selfless person in chalet-land and therefore deserved to live, not only to see Jacynth succeed at the CS and take up the cello, but to live a long and happy life.

Author:	Fiona Mc [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Mine would be a few not because I don't like the characters but because I would have loved to see what happens. First Joey in a couple of places, one is the accident on the ice with Maureen- it would be interesting to see how the school ends up without Joey to continue it on and second in her grief over Jack being missing presumed dead and then have Jack turn up after Joey died and see how he coped with raising the triplets alone with say Lydia Maynard's help as Madge had too many with her's, Dick and Mollie's, Margot's kids and the Robin and the highland twins as well. It would be interesting to see how that turns out. Hilda during term as it would be interesting to see who would take over the school. Would it have been Nell or Miss Derwent/Mademoiselle de Lachenais? And how would the school have coped with their Head dying unexpectedly mid-term? And finally Betty in the bookend accident. I would love to see how the Maynards coped with Margot going to gaol for it and how Margot coped with leaving gaol. It would have been interesting to see Len's reaction to it especially as tried to stop the book from hitting Betty causing it inadvertently to hit Betty on the side of the head.

Author:	Thursday Next [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
ChubbyMonkey wrote: I seem to vaguely remember a discussion on here a while back in which someone said that the stilts idea is one used in a country/countries in RL. I could be making that up entirely, though - can anyone help me out? Yes, that was me. I mentioned that the shepherds of the Landes region of France use them to watch over their flocks and inhabitants of marshy or flooded areas often use them to walk in swampy areas or to ford rivers. Apparently the fruit farmers in California use aluminium stilts to prune and harvest the fruit trees. Quicker than continually moving ladders I suppose.

Author:	Artemis [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I'd get rid of Jem, to see what happened during the Anschluss, and how the women coped without him, and to stop Madge turning into 'that sweet woman, Lady Russell'. I'd definitely kill off Mary Lou - I loathe her, and I would like to see the Chalet School with Vi and Verity at the helm. I don't like Jack Lambert either, so she could go. I'd kill Anna - quite early on - and have Rosli marry and leave, so Jo had to manage without her faithful family retainers. I'd keep Margot Venables and Ted Humphries alive, and I'd have him remarry, though not necessarily to her, (although if that had happened, perhaps Daisy might have had the support she needed to stay a doctor) and I'd remove Robin to a home of her own with her father and a loving stepmother, where she could do what she damn well pleased about marrying and having children. I too would allow poor Elisaveta to keep her husband. I think she deserved a decent life. I'd have at least one of Joey's long family with learning difficulties or some other issue, and I'd have at least 50% of the miraculous escapes from death not happen. I'd like, for example, to have Eustacia Benson die, and Joey have to cope with the results of her crass lack of tact. I'd like Betty to suffer more after Margot throws the bookend at her so Margot has to deal with that, and I'd kill Mike in the ravine incident. And I wouldn't kill Rosamund Sefton - I'd want Jessica to have time to learn to live with her. I think that may be all . . . Edited for typos. ETA And how could I forget the slimy Reg? Either that or have him marry Mary Lou and the two of them live in a claustrophobic Sartrean 'L'enfer c'est les autres' Huis Clos lace-curtained suburban little hell where they could thoroughly deserve each other and never, never get divorced . . .

Author:	Sunglass [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Fiona Mc wrote: And finally Betty in the bookend accident. I would love to see how the Maynards coped with Margot going to gaol for it and how Margot coped with leaving gaol. I was just looking at this and thinking 'How interesting', before realising that I genuinely can't imagine the CS authorities letting it get to that stage. I just just can't envisage Hilda calling the police and 'One of our girls has killed another' and helping a manslaughter investigation, even if Betty had died! I think it's because, even when Betty is on the floor covered in blood from a head injury, both Len and Hilda's first instincts are to cover it up and worry about Margot's feelings, rather than the victim's welfare. Or maybe Hilda would herself have been unaware (or prepared to keep up the fiction of being unaware) of how Betty really died - I could see Len, galvanised with sisterly loyalty, getting rid of the bookend and continuing with the story that Betty slipped and hit her head, if only she could find some way of making sure no witnesses talked. And Margot might have been traumatised enough to be susceptible to Len telling her repeatedly that she didn't throw the bookend, she only imagined she did, and Betty just fell...

Author:	Lesley [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
A long time ago (2003 I think) we had a communal drabble on the board detailling an alternate ending to the bookend saga - in that Margot was expelled. I think it's still in the archives.

Author:	Fiona Mc [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Lesley wrote: A long time ago (2003 I think) we had a communal drabble on the board detailling an alternate ending to the bookend saga - in that Margot was expelled. I think it's still in the archives. It is! I had a wonderful time at work when it was quiet ages ago reading it. I think it got to the point where Margot was arrested but that was about it. Must admit it did inspire that idea and have started a drabble on my PC about that very topic. When it's more than half formed I'll actually get around to posting it. I don't see how Hilda or Len could have hidden it simply because Betty's best friend Alicia witnessed the whole thing and how could Hilda live with herself for protecting a murderer especially as it would mean Margot could potentially do it to another pupil

Author:	Sunglass [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Fiona Mc wrote: I don't see how Hilda or Len could have hidden it simply because Betty's best friend Alicia witnessed the whole thing and how could Hilda live with herself for protecting a murderer especially as it would mean Margot could potentially do it to another pupil It's not entirely plausible, I'll be the first to admit, but given the way Len succeeds in making even Alicia say nothing when she's witnessed her best friend possibly being killed - I mean, when it's not yet obvious that the injury isn't fatal - by a fellow CS girl in a rather frightening blind fit of rage, with Hilda colluding in minimising the prepetrator's guilt and maximising Betty's 'tactlessness', I could imagine nearly any outcome! I do find it an absolutely extraordinary incident for the CS, especially as Hilda, shockingly, is clearly prepared to countenance the possibility that Margot will strike again, with potentially worse results, rather than expelling her on the grounds of the safety of the rest of the school. I always think of this when Elma Conroy is threatened with expulsion from St Mildred's on the grounds of the CS authorities not wanting to trust her around the other girls: Quote: If that came to pass, believe me, Elma, I should send you away. I couldn’t take the risk of keeping you here with the others. It wouldn’t be just to them.” The 'moral danger of Elma seems to be worse than the threat to life and limb of Margot! No, I can't imagine Hilda consciously covering up a murder, if Betty had died. But it wouldn't be murder, presumably, but manslaughter (would a CS lawyer - Donal O'Hara? - try to argue for grounds of provocation from 'tactless' Betty, or that the the balance of Margot's mind was disturbed?) But what I was imagining really was Len lying to protect her sister, having somehow damped down Alicia - and Hilda genuinely believing it was an accident, or if she secretly suspected the truth was different, being too sorry for Margot to probe further...

Author:	ChubbyMonkey [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
It wouldn't be murder, even if she died - and if Len tried to deflect the bookmark then there is a huge issue of causation as well! In the book it's: Quote: Almost blind with fury, Margot snatched up the first thing that came to hand - a heavy bookend - and flung it straight at her head. Betty tried to dodge, but she was not quite quick enough. Len had tried to catch her sister's arm, too, but all she did was to deflect her aim slightly so that the bookend struck Betty on the side of the head instead of full in the face, and she went down like a pole-axed ox. I don't know that any but the best of lawyers would get her off without charge (though in front of a jury, who knows!) but certainly it wouldn't be murder in those circumstances. Len being Len could easily make more of her actions than perhaps happened, so that there would be a question over the very fact of Margot having caused the injury, and even then her mental state would mean that it would be manslaughter instead of murder. Besides all of which, she only ever had intention - at best - to seriously injure, and I reckon a good lawyer could get that down to subjective recklessness. That is all, of course, based on English law, so take it with a pinch of salt! Sorry, you can spot the Law student... retires back to her dark corner

Author:	emma t [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I had a feeling I might start something over Mary lou I do agree on the killing off of Reg. I think that his and Len's relationship to be is a little far fetched; he's too old for her for starters ( I know age should not matter, but at least Reg has seen something of life, whereas Len has not, still at school when they become engaged, and I am glad she puts her foot down about going to university!!) They should never have killed off Veta's husband; there was no need for that at all as someone else mentioned eariler in the thread, I feel so sorry for her (being biased as she's one of my favourite characters) having to raise three children on her own. Prehaps EBD may have let her re-marry later if she had been alive longer to write more of the seriel -going over the top! Another I might have killed off is Miss Bubb I loath her with a passion, as I imagine so many others probably do!She changes things so much in a short time even though she knows that she is only there a few terms only, though if I remember rightly she secretly hopes it will be for longer. Probably why the authorities like to engage teachers who have been old girls of the school, which is quite convinient on EBDs part that she should have alot of them go onto teacher training.

Author:	Alison H [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Personally, I feel quite sorry for Miss Bubb, especially when Jack starts ordering her about in front of Gay Lambert. I know she was only there as a temp, but it's so annoying when someone insists that you do something in a particular way "because that's the way we've always done it" and refuses to consider that another way might be different. One of the mistresses makes a remark somewhere about it being better to employ Old Girls because they understand "our little ways" and I just want to slap her . Sorry, pet gripe of mine, based on being stuck an office which functions (or more to the point doesn't function) like something out of the 1950s. I think that a lot of cover-ups went on at the CS . We're told that one of the reasons that St Scholastika's closed was that many worried parents had taken their daughters away from there after hearing about Maureen and Joey's near-fatal accident. By the time the CS had been open a few years, Joey had nearly died twice, Grizel had run away twice (resulting in serious illness the first time), Stacie had run away and as a result suffered a long-term injury, and Elisaveta, Cornelia and Robin had all gone off with strange men and had to be rescued. Yet apparently none of the parents were at all worried about this .

Author:	Nightwing [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
There's no one I'd really want to kill off out of spite (except maybe Jack Lambert...) but there are one or two whose deaths would have made interesting reading. Mrs Linton is one - if she had died after she had found out that Joyce was (supposedly) expelled rather than recovering. I think even the saintly Gillian would have had a hard time not blaming her sister for that, and the dynamics of their relationship would have changed completely. It would also be a change to see one of the TB sufferers at the San actually succumb to the disease - we're told there are several girls whose parents or relatives are "slowly dying" up at the Sonnalpe, but none of them ever actually seem to die. The school and the community would have had to deal with the loss of one of their own. And the other is Hilda - not because I want her dead, particularly! But because it would have given the school a good shake up in some of the later books. Nancy was more or less slated for her job, I know, but she's quite a different character from Hilda - the school wouldn't have changed dramatically, but it would have changed, all the same.

Author:	sealpuppy [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Ooh, fun thread! I'd certainly keep Elisaveta's husband alive and Ted Humphries too, but I wouldn't marry him off to Margot. She could develop into a warm, wise cousellor, and liberate Joey to go and do some kind of war work, even if it's only knotting camouflage nets a couple of mornings a week (as in Miss Bunting:Angela Thirkell); Ted could marry someone nice like Rosalie who would talk Robin out of the nunning; or he could marry Grizel and reform her with happiness. I don't mind Jem, you have to have a pater familias of some kind, probably, to balance all those women! But yes, either kill off Jack after the accident, or let him loose to breed with Joey and kill off Con. I like Con, but it would be interesting if her death resulted from some nasty piece of selfishness on Margot's part. Wonder how far forgiveness would go then? And Reg. Of course. Unless he's reformed and decides to go off to one of EBD's black hole places. (She seems to send people to Edinburgh now and then and I don't think they ever come back.)

Author:	Liz K [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Nightwing wrote: Mrs Linton is one - if she had died after she had found out that Joyce was (supposedly) expelled rather than recovering. I think even the saintly Gillian would have had a hard time not blaming her sister for that, and the dynamics of their relationship would have changed completely. It would also be a change to see one of the TB sufferers at the San actually succumb to the disease - we're told there are several girls whose parents or relatives are "slowly dying" up at the Sonnalpe, but none of them ever actually seem to die. The school and the community would have had to deal with the loss of one of their own. Oooooohhhhh, now are those a couple of drabbles waiting to be written or WHAT?

Author:	MJKB [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
Sunglass wrote: but given the way Len succeeds in making even Alicia say nothing when she's witnessed her best friend possibly being killed - I mean, when it's not yet obvious that the injury isn't fatal - by a fellow CS girl in a rather frightening blind fit of rage, Where's the scrupulously fair and honest CS girl here? If I were Alicia I'd be hopping mad. I'd certainly think that the cover up could only be because of who Margot is. Who ever thought of marrying Mary Lou off to Reg was a genius.

Author:	Artemis [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who would you kill off?
I want to marry Mary Lou off to Reg . . . evil chuckle . . . and never, never let them get a divorce . . . I'd like to see his chip on the shoulder and her martyr's tendencies combined. Might go and read Sartre's Huis Clos again and see if I can scare up an idea . . .