Joey and the Quartette pecking order
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#1: Joey and the Quartette pecking order Author: SunglassLocation: Usually London PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:39 pm
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At different times over the course of the CS books, we see different conceptions of how the Quartette works, who Joey's closest friend of the other three is, or whether the four are all equally attached to one another. In the early Tyrol books, Simone is a weepy sentimentalist with a crush on Jo, Frieda is the apple-cheeked 'peace-maker' who is less pretty and forceful than her sister and doesn't get much attention from the narrative, and Marie is also presented as a less-interesting, less beautiful version of her elder sister, but distinguished by her rejection of her awful cousin's snobbery. Things are kept from Simone because of her possessiveness about Joey, while Frieda backs up Joey over Eustacia becoming editor of the Chaletian, and Marie is the one who is sent to comfort her when there is a grave fear for the Robin's health. We rarely if ever see the other three doing things together without Jo, although we sometimes see Frieda and Marie keeping Simone occupied so Jo can talk to someone else.

By the time the new house is opened, if not before, there is a conception of the four of them as a strong friendship group, though they split down the middle as regards expectations of marriage (Frieda and Marie vs Jo and Simone) and as regards career - Simone is the only one who needs to earn a living, while Jo has plans to go to Belsornia, and then to write and continue singing. I don't think we ever hear any career plans from Marie or Frieda.

By the war years, they are all holidaying together, complete with ten offspring, and Simone appears to have 'caught up', finally with the others. Frieda is still peace-making, Simone is now self-controlled and quiet, and Marie has a ferocious appetite, despite her fragile physique, and a teasingness I'd never noticed before. Despite Simone's earlier emotionalism and fancifulness, she is now described by Jack as completely without imagination, and so suitable to check on whether Phoebe Wychcote is attracted to Dr Graves.

There is at least one reference somewhere in some novel to Frieda being Joey's best friend of the other three, which I find surprising - can't remember where.

My confusion on the internal dynamics of the Quartette may be due to the fact that I'm not as well-versed in the novels as many people here - or it may be EBD...? Where if anywhere do we see the fpur of them separating off as a group, and what is anyone else's sense of how the group works? Is the characterisation consistent? Who is Jo's best friend, if anyone?

#2:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:04 pm
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I don't think that the "split" in terms of aspirations is surprising. Marie comes from an upper-class background, Frieda from a wealthy upper-middle-class background and Simone from a less well-off family who cannot support her and really need her to provide some financial assistance to them. It might not have mattered much at school, but in the 1930s it was bound to have affected their future plans. In terms of changing as they grow up, Simone was fairly immature in her early days so she was bound to change the most. Marie does turn out much more lively than she was at school, although she was always quite cheerful and sporty.

In terms of their relationship with each other, I think that Marie was sent to comfort Jo purely because she was on the spot - they were taking it in turns to spend weekends at Die Rosen - but I don't understand whey they were told that it was OK to tell Frieda but not that it was OK to tell Simone.

Some groups of friends are unequal in that there is one "leader" and several "others", rather than there being "pairs" of best friends (e.g. Mary-Lou and Verity, Vi and Barbara, perhaps), or else an "equal" trio (e.g. Daisy, Beth and Gwensi) and this seems like one of them. For example, we're told that Joey is to be chief bridesmaid at Marie's wedding, and you get the feeling that it would have been the same whoever'd got married first.

Everyone seems to want to be Joey's best friend. Elisaveta always refers to Joey as her best friend and even names her daughter after her, but most of the time Joey seems to forget that she exists. Maisie Scott née Gomme, whom we never even see speaking to Joey, also names her daughter after her (Joey), Dacia Standish née Parsons names Joey as her daughter's guardian even though they are no longer in touch, and Corney Flower expresses a regret that Joey is not in America to be her matron of honour even though she was part of a group with 4 other girls at school. *
Oh, to be so popular!!!

That seems to be the main issue with this group - Joey is EBD's heroine, so everything seems to revolve around her. Other groups, such as the Quintette, are much more "equal". Mary-Lou is very much the leader of her Gang, but you never see Hilary or Lesley or even Vi sulking because she's closer to Verity (supposedly) than she is to any of them, and you can't imagine someone outside the Gang (e.g. Hilda Jukes) naming their kid after Mary-Lou in years to come.

The others still seem to be close, though - e.g. in Coming of Age Simone stays with Marie for a bit before going to the Tiernsee. We just don't see that much of them.

* ETA - and, when Joey announces her engagement, we're told that Grizel is also possessive about Joey and is jealous that Joey is so close to Robin!

Sorry, I am bored at work so seem to have written a whole essay there Embarassed Embarassed .


Last edited by Alison H on Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:09 pm; edited 3 times in total

#3:  Author: SunglassLocation: Usually London PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:50 pm
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Alison H wrote:

Everyone seems to want to be Joey's best friend.

Sorry, I am bored at work so seem to have written a whole essay there Embarassed Embarassed .


As am I, despite the enormous amounts of work piling up - hence my essay...

Yes, I always get a bit cross that Simone's journey to maturity tends (I think I'm thinking of Rescue) to be seen less in terms of her successful university career, supporting her parents and sister, Mademoiselle's death, teaching at the CS, marrying and having a child, dealing with her husband being away at war etc etc than 'Ah, she has finally seen the light! She has realised that everyone loves Jo, wants her at their weddings/to be their offspring's guardians/names their babies after her in droves/adopts her as an aunt, so she has to stand in line and not grab. Now she is a true woman!' Real maturity is acknowledging you cannot have Jo all to yourself. I'd never call myself a Simone fan in particular, but she is far more interesting than either Marie or Frieda as a character...

But, given how soppy and weepy and melodramatic the younger Simone is, it's surprising she makes into Jo's friendship group at all, no? And am I forgetting (or have just not read) some reference in one of the early books to the four of them becoming an established group, or is this just one of the places where EBD produces a fact and then tells us it's always been the case? (Like Jo being a good butter-in her whole life, when we know she was a fairly crap sheepdog, and often insensitive, at school...) I seem to have a sense of Jo being friendly with everyone, across age groups, when the school is small (which makes sense) and then suddenly we're told by her later school days that the other three are her best friends, as though we're already supposed to know it. We see Simone seeting her cap at Joey early on, fair enough, but Marie and Frieda don't stand out from a lot of other people as potential friends.

#4:  Author: CBWLocation: Kent PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:13 pm
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Was it not that these 4 were all the same age?

Its been a while since I read the early books so I can't totally remember who came when but I thought for a while these 4 were the only ones in their age group so they rather fell together.

#5:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:30 am
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In the first term, Simone latches on to Joey very quickly. The friendship with Marie and Frieda I think comes later, as in the first few books Joey is shown interacting with a wide range of girls - she's good friends with Elisaveta and Margia, who are younger, but also interacts with the older girls like Grizel and Gisela as well as Frieda and Marie.

There are other girls in the same age group from the beginning - Sophie in the first term, Bianca and Vanna in the second. Arda and Carla join later, and there are some minor characters like Lieschen or Natasha mentioned.

I think it's around Rivals or Eustacia that the Quartette really solidifies, which is also when the school is becoming more formally separated into different forms, unlike the first few books where the form divisions where very broad (J/M/S).

As an aside, Joey has nine people named after her (Felicity, Peggy and Josette in the family, plus children of Frieda, Marie, Cornelia, Elisaveta, Maisie and Miss Carthew).

Madge has six - Peggy, Daphne and Josete in the family, plus children of Simone, Cornelia and Elisaveta (this includes middle names) and Robin has three, Cecil, plus children of Bette and Elisaveta.

Interestingly, Joey doesn't name any of her children, including middle names, after any of her friends, and Simone names her daughter after Mlle Lepattre and Madge, not Joey.

#6:  Author: RóisínLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:30 pm
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CBW wrote:
Was it not that these 4 were all the same age?

Its been a while since I read the early books so I can't totally remember who came when but I thought for a while these 4 were the only ones in their age group so they rather fell together.


This is what I thought too - just that they were the only four of their age at the time, so were pushed together somewhat, and then made friends. I suppose they hung together more after the School split into forms rather than Junior, Middle, Senior - when people like Margia and Veta were in a different form now.

(But after the age of 16 I think the fact that they stayed friends, and how that friendship evolved, is really interesting Very Happy)

#7:  Author: BillieLocation: The south of England. PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:47 am
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I've just been reading Rivals and it's the first time I see them acting as a quartette: when they flour the other girls' hair. They were all in a dormitory together, along with Mary and possibly one other - Mary disapproves at the last minute of their revenge, but the four continue regardless. I suppose sharing a dorm brings them closer, although interestingly Mary is (on average) the same age and is never one of the close friends, despite having known Jo for longer.

#8:  Author: AnjaliLocation: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:54 am
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I thought this could be because Mary was already head-girl, while the Quartette were only sub-prefects...

I think their portrayal in 'Jo to the Rescue' is interesting, because it seems to me like the dynamics have changed a bit - (apart from Simone's transformation) the other three don't seem to look at Joey as OOAOJ as much as they used to earlier....did getting married and having families of their own put things more into perspective for them?

I love the fact that they are still so close and have large family holidays together - can't really see myself doing this with my own schoolmates, however close....but how come we see none of the husbands except Jack?

#9:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:00 am
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Bruno and Andre were both away in the army during Rescue.
I don't know where Eugen was, though ... his mother was American so possibly he'd have had dual nationality and could've gone into an American regiment (don't know enough about it to know whether or not that's true), but I don't think we're ever told what he does during the War. Maybe as an aristocrat with knowledge of Austrian affairs he got a high-ranking job in intelligence! Or maybe he was regarded as too high-risk to have a military job.

#10:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:25 pm
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Alison H wrote:
Bruno and Andre were both away in the army during Rescue.
I don't know where Eugen was, though ... his mother was American so possibly he'd have had dual nationality and could've gone into an American regiment (don't know enough about it to know whether or not that's true), but I don't think we're ever told what he does during the War. Maybe as an aristocrat with knowledge of Austrian affairs he got a high-ranking job in intelligence! Or maybe he was regarded as too high-risk to have a military job.


Eugen was in Italy. This from Rescue:

Quote:
Bruno is away from me, serving in India; André is in the Belgian Congo, and Eugen is hard at it in Italy.

#11:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:54 pm
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Ooh, thank you. How I remembered where 2 of them were but not the 3rd when they're all mentioned in the same sentence I have no idea Embarassed Confused !

#12:  Author: AnjaliLocation: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:06 am
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Thanks Alison and KB! Most of my books are still at my parents' - leads to some embarassing gaps in memory..

#13:  Author: JSLocation: Perthshire PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:29 pm
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jennifer wrote:
Interestingly, Joey doesn't name any of her children, including middle names, after any of her friends, and Simone names her daughter after Mlle Lepattre and Madge, not Joey.


I think when Simone has a daughter later, Joey tells various people the name (can't recall it) and says she had refused to have another child named after her. I thought this was a bit ungrateful, myself!

Also, friendships are funny things and in a foursome or threesome in particular the group dynamics can change over time. Three can be a particularly awkward number, if two have more in common with each other at various points.

Perhaps this is heresy but I was trying to think of Joey and co in terms of the Sex and the City women. Joey would be Carrie, of course, around whom everything evolves; maybe Simone (the clverest one) would be Miranda, so that leaves Marie and Frieda fighting it out to be Samantha and the other one. Not that I can see either of them behaving like Samantha! But like Joey, it's always Carrie the others choose as godmother, bridesmaid etc.

HTML fixed by Róisín

#14:  Author: MonaLocation: Hertfordshire PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:47 pm
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Oh, Marie & Freida are both very definitely Charlottes!

#15:  Author: abbeybufoLocation: in a world of her own PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:03 pm
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JS wrote:
Perhaps this is heresy but I was trying to think of Joey and co in terms of the Sex and the City women.


I've only heard about Sex and the City - not having a television - but surely this would be a fun crossover, even as a short piece - go for it JS Laughing

#16:  Author: JSLocation: Perthshire PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:38 pm
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Thanks Mona - just couldn't remember Charlotte's name! See what you mean and Marie's background in particular would fit her more to be a Park Avenue Princess type (a la Charlotte), but come to think of it she was really quite flirty in Jo to the Rescue, so maybe could take on the Samantha mantle!

And Abbeybufo, I'm new and wouldn't know where to start but have been enjoying your 'drabble' - first I've read. But you've got me thinking now...........

#17:  Author: emily 401 PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:51 pm
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Quote:
Interestingly, Joey doesn't name any of her children, including middle names, after any of her friends, and Simone names her daughter after Mlle Lepattre and Madge, not Joey.


She doesn't name any after the 'quartet', but she names the triplets after members of staff I think, 'Con' is Constance for Miss Stewart, 'Len' is Hellena for Miss Wilson, and 'Margot' is Margaret after Daisy and Primuala Venable's mother.

#18:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:01 pm
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The Sex and the City analagy is really clever, JS! It always annoys me how Carrie is everyone's "best friend" and in the centre of everything, while the others often only exist in relation to her (and not to each other). Joey and her three friends are the same. *ponders*

#19:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:37 pm
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emily 401 wrote:


She doesn't name any after the 'quartet', but she names the triplets after members of staff I think, 'Con' is Constance for Miss Stewart, 'Len' is Hellena for Miss Wilson, and 'Margot' is Margaret after Daisy and Primuala Venable's mother.


I never did get that Confused . Even after the escape from Tyrol I wouldn't have thought that she and Nell were that friendly. There was never any hint that she was particularly close to Con Stewart, and I can't remember ever even "seeing" her have a conversation with Grace Nalder who was Margot's godmother. The only choice of name that makes sense is Margaret, which was her mother's name, her sister's name and Margot Venables's name. And the choice of Con and Grance as godparents just doesn't seem logical at all. Marie, Simone and (seeing as Frieda wasn't around at the time) Gisela seem like the obvious choices, or maybe even Robin.

Poor Jack didn't get a look in - surely at least one of the 3 should've been named after one of his family/friends!

IIRC it was Frieda's youngest whom Joey didn't want named after her, so she ended up being Carlotta instead.

#20:  Author: JSLocation: Perthshire PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:11 am
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Quote:
IIRC it was Frieda's youngest whom Joey didn't want named after her, so she ended up being Carlotta instead.


It was Simone as well, so Joe snubbed at least two of her closest friends. Simone's youngest (I think) daughter ended up being Roseline because Jo 'refused to have another baby named after her' (Future) Or so she told Irma whose name, incidentally, appears to have switched from Ancockzy back to von Rothenfels even though the latter was her maiden name!

And yes, I always thought the Miss Nadler choice particularly bizarre - doesn't she change her names a couple of times too throughout the series??

#21:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:23 am
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I wondered if the reason they were chosen was because EBD needed 3 who were Catholic - but can't understsnd why she couldn't have chosen Simone, Marie and Frieda - isn't it normally the case that Godparents are chosen from your own generation? - choosing three of your teachers seems bizarre - I can just about see Nell Wilson - with their shared ordeal during Exile, but otherwise?

#22:  Author: SquirrelLocation: St-Andrews or Dunfermline PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:18 am
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JS wrote:
Quote:
IIRC it was Frieda's youngest whom Joey didn't want named after her, so she ended up being Carlotta instead.


It was Simone as well, so Joe snubbed at least two of her closest friends. Simone's youngest (I think) daughter ended up being Roseline because Jo 'refused to have another baby named after her' (Future) Or so she told Irma whose name, incidentally, appears to have switched from Ancockzy back to von Rothenfels even though the latter was her maiden name!


You know... I wonder if this was simply a plot device to please the fans more than anything else. Possibly EBD was getting letters about why Simone etc did *not* name their children after Jo, and EBD wanted to use different names, so this was her way of explaining it. Possibly not the best way for it to be shown, but Jo need not have phrased it that way to her friends when she was talking to them! Wink

#23:  Author: RóisínLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:32 pm
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In the dim and far distant past there was a communal drabble that was a SATC cross, with the four girls of the quartette living in flats in Innsbruck, but it (the drabble) didn't last long and was lost in the hack. I think it was dreamt up in an MSN convo Laughing Would love to see it done properly!

Irma Ancockzy and Irma von Rothfenels were 2 different people in Tyrol, AFAIK.

#24:  Author: JSLocation: Perthshire PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:32 pm
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Quote:
Irma Ancockzy and Irma von Rothfenels were 2 different people in Tyrol, AFAIK.


Oops! Didn't realise that. I guess in that case she just liked the way the name sounded and decided to use it again. I seem to recall another Elma Conroy (and American?) in a very early Tyrol one long before Elma of Oberland (and naughty letters and smoking!) fame.

#25:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:36 pm
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Róisín wrote:
Irma Ancockzy and Irma von Rothfenels were 2 different people in Tyrol, AFAIK.


I've been doing a bit of research into that person/these people and found these references:

Irma Ancockzky:
· Friend of Emmie Linders, Enid Sothern, Biddy O’Ryan (New House)
· Involved in the Baby Voodoo plot (New House)
· In the St Thérèse Common Room for half-term (Jo Returns)
· Joins other Seniors in the ‘stepping on chairs’ game (Jo Returns)
· Has a younger sister who, with her mother and father, are killed during the war
· Senior Middle (Jo Returns)
· Marries Franz von Rothenfels (Future)

Irma Von Rothenfels:
· Younger sister of Paula von Rothenfels (New)
· Musical (New House)
· Frail and lives at the Sonnalpe (New House)
· Comes to school at age 8 (Juliet)
· Friend of Robin (Eustacia page 75, And Jo page 71)
· Disappears during the war, along with Paula (Exile)

My conclusion is that there are two Irmas. Paula’s younger sister, Irma von Rothenfels, is up at the Sonnalpe and is Robin’s close friend. She is about 12 years old. Irma Ancockzky, who will marry Franz von Rothenfels, is in Vb and is a Senior Middle. (She clearly improved a great deal after the ‘Baby Voodoo’ fiasco for her to be trusted by the authorities.) However you may draw your own conclusions!

#26:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:15 pm
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I've always taken it that they were 2 different people. I'd love to know if EBD intentionally gave Irma A a married name that was the same as another character's name, though. Presumably she'd have said if Irma A's husband was meant to be related to Irma and Paula von R, which would make more sense that it being a complete coincidence.

Maybe she just genuinely liked the sound of the name Irma von Rothenfels and totally forgot that she'd used it before!

We'll never know, I suppose ... Confused . One of those mysteries, along with the real identity of Wanda von Eschenau II ... who would have been related to the original von Rothenfels family as Paula and Irma were Wanda and Marie's cousins, now that I come to think about it. Maybe they were just a very mysterious family!

#27:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:33 pm
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What I find unbelievable is that in Future, Irma didn't know that Joey had married Jack and they had a summer home at the Tiernsee. Even if she'd never mentioned to anyone that she'd been a pupil at the school, wouldn't she have heard gossip from Herr Braun or a Pfeiffen or two about Fraulein Joey who was now Frau Doktor Maynard?

#28:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:57 am
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Alison H wrote:


We'll never know, I suppose ... Confused . One of those mysteries, along with the real identity of Wanda von Eschenau II ... who would have been related to the original von Rothenfels family as Paula and Irma were Wanda and Marie's cousins, now that I come to think about it. Maybe they were just a very mysterious family!


And Paula Irma are never mentioned after the war, although the other members of their families are, and they were safe in England as of Goes to It.

I always figured Wanda II (and Carlotta) were children of Wanda and Marie's younger brother Wolfram, as Wanda and Marie are definitely mentioned as her aunts.

#29:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:46 pm
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I think the Quartette's frinedship is very well developed, and personally I always got the impression that, while they were younger at least, Frieda and Joey, if not closer, were on more or less the same wavelength whereas Simone was rather emotionally immature and Marie more of a follower type/not intelligent. As they get older they're on more of a similar footing, particularly in Exploits and the other 'prefect' books though even then, Frieda is closer to Joey re backing her up over Eustacia. (Even though Sophie did too!)

Lol if you did a CS/SATC crossover (incidentally I totally see Marie as Samantha) you could call it Sexploits of the Chalet girls.

#30:  Author: AnjaliLocation: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:49 am
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Quote:
I always figured Wanda II (and Carlotta) were children of Wanda and Marie's younger brother Wolfram, as Wanda and Marie are definitely mentioned as her aunts.


I assumed Wanda II was the daughter of Bernhilda and Kurt von Eschenau....

#31:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:43 am
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That's the logical explanation as there are references to Wanda II's mother being an Old Girl, but it says somewhere quite a bit before the end of the series - possibly when they send money for the chapels? - that Bernhilda and Kurt's daughters have all left by then. Just to confuse the issue Confused Laughing !

#32:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:01 am
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In Peggy it says that Bernhilda had children Stefan, Hilda, Louise, Francis and Mariel, the baby. They settled in New York early in the war, and remained there. In Problem they have seven, the youngest, Hilda, being nine, and Natalie, the eldest, being twenty and training as a nurse.

I think the latter is a confusion with Gisela, whose eldest daughter is named Natalie (and would be about the right age), followed by Gisel, Florian, Gretchen, Jacquetta and Toni, with room for a youngest daughter named Hilda as well at that age.

Wanda von Escheneau II has a younger sister named Carlotta and an eldest brother named Wolfgang. The age given for the elder brother is a bit off, but otherwise that's the best match. She is also mentioned as having 'prettily accented English' which would match with a European, rather than American, origin.

The recitations of the old girl's families get pretty confused at times.

#33:  Author: AnjaliLocation: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:23 am
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Am now totally confused Very Happy Very Happy
The mystery deepens....another EBDism to add to the growing list....

#34:  Author: ElaLocation: London Village PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:36 pm
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Lesley wrote:
I wondered if the reason they were chosen was because EBD needed 3 who were Catholic - but can't understsnd why she couldn't have chosen Simone, Marie and Frieda - isn't it normally the case that Godparents are chosen from your own generation? - choosing three of your teachers seems bizarre - I can just about see Nell Wilson - with their shared ordeal during Exile, but otherwise?


It seems something of a surprise to learn that Simone is not a Catholic, but I recollect that Joey says very specifically in Exile that the triplets' godmothers all had to be Catholic. I guess that both Marie and Frieda would have been Protestants. No mention made of godfathers, at least for the girls, which is odd, because it would have been traditional to have godparents of both sexes.

#35:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:04 pm
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Frieda and Marie are both Catholic - Frieda's family went to Catholic Mass in Jo Of and Marie and Joey had a conversation about why she was Catholic and Thekla Protestant in (I think) Lintons.

#36:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:08 pm
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Frieda's uncle is a Catholic Bishop so I think it's a safe assumption to say she is Catholic

#37:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:42 pm
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I think Simone, Frieda and Marie are all Catholic - that's why I can't understand them not being chosen as Godmothers for the triplets.

#38:  Author: SunglassLocation: Usually London PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:53 pm
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Am I right in thinking that in the past people (at least Catholics, I have no idea how it might work in other faiths) tended to choose older people as godparents, rather than people of their own age? (My grandparents were my godparents, which would be very unusual now.) As everyone has said, pasing over her three closest Catholic friends seems like an odd decision unless there is a reason - maybe, as Joey was so new to Catholicism herself, she wanted to choose older, more experienced godmothers? It would make no particular sense that she would choose Englishwomen over two Austrians and a Frenchwoman, given that it was clear no one knew where they would be living after the war...

#39:  Author: KarryLocation: Stoke on Trent PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:05 pm
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One of the functions of a God parent, afaik, was to be there to help with educating hte child as regards their faith, but also to be there if anything happened to the parents, so they can bring up their god-child. My god parents were my sister and brother in law (she is 18 years older than I) and her best friend. In the anglican tradition there is usually two GPs of the same gender and one of the opposite. I dont know if there is the same tradition in catholicism?

#40:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:12 pm
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Usually just two in Catholicism, one of each gender.

#41:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:18 pm
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Sunglass wrote:
Am I right in thinking that in the past people (at least Catholics, I have no idea how it might work in other faiths) tended to choose older people as godparents, rather than people of their own age? (My grandparents were my godparents, which would be very unusual now.)

Yes, at one time having godparents the age of one's grandparents wasn't uncommon, usually older family members or other people the parents looked up to and felt they could go to for advice. (No, you really weren't supposed to choose wealthy great-uncle Horace for secular reasons, but that happened as well.) Because of this, I didn't think it at all strange for the inexperienced Joey to go first to slightly older, wiser teachers rather to friends of her own age who would know no more than she did about the faith. However, the older godparent trend got to be so extreme that, at least here, bishops felt it necessary to make the point that godparents should have a decent chance of being around until the baby was old enough for confirmation, if not of age....



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