Sisters by Marriage?
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#1: Sisters by Marriage? Author: Joan the Dwarf PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:03 am


Here's something that's bugged me for quite a time. I've done a search on it, but apologies if it's been discussed before...

Mary-Lou and Verity - what's all this business about "sisters-by-marriage"? Mary-Lou's mother marries Verity's father - that makes them step-sisters. If they had shared a parent they would be half-sisters. So why do they say that they haven't got a word for their relationship and have to come up with this phrase?

Was the concept of step-siblings not around in EBD's day? But that of step-parents was (cf Grizel), so wouldn't it be the obvious extension?

Or is this just EBD? Wink

 


#2:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:09 am


EBD seems to have classed what we would call a half-sibling relationship as a step-sibling one. She actually seems fairly consistant in this throughout her books. I don't know if her view was that of the wider world at the time, or if it was just her own interpretation of things.

 


#3:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:12 am


She just doesn't get the meaning of the term and uses half-sister/brother to mean stepsister.

EBD both had a half brother and a step-father and so should have known the terms but I think someone here had a good theory that because of her dislike of her stepfather, she tried to avoid the term.

 


#4:  Author: Joan the Dwarf PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:43 pm


I think I sort of see...

I've been trying to think about who other than Grizel has a step-anything and my mind's a blank.

Browsing Ebay made me wonder, are the "Step-Sisters for Lorna" good or bad? (I haven't read her non-CS stuff).

 


#5:  Author: LesleyLocation: Rochester, Kent PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:59 pm


Rosalie Dean had a step mother and two half brothers - although I don't think her father remarried until after she had left school.

Plus, of course Jessica Wayne had a step father and step sister.

 


#6:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:27 pm


Ohh!!!! I've just realised! Step sisters for Lorna is where the EBD inconsistencies come in!!!! Surely Lorna and the other two have the SAME degree of relatedness as Mary Lou and Verity? So how come ML & V are NOT step sisters, but the others are???

 


#7:  Author: Joan the DwarfLocation: Er, where am I? PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:32 pm


When was Step-sisters written? Was it before or after the first Swiss CS books?

 


#8:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:38 pm


Well, according to the GGB version, it was first published in 1948, so WAY before the first swiss chalets.

 


#9:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:04 pm


i love both the Lorna books (L at Wynyards and Step Sisters) - I think they're much better than some of her later writing

 


#10:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:14 pm


I had just figured that ML and Verity-Ann wanted a term without the bad fairy-tale connotations of "wicked step-sisters" and so forth.

 


#11:  Author: Carolyn PLocation: Lancaster, England PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:20 pm


Kathy_S wrote:
I had just figured that ML and Verity-Ann wanted a term without the bad fairy-tale connotations of "wicked step-sisters" and so forth.


Well that was the explanation I used in Four Funerals because I couldn't think of any ohter way round it given that EBD did use the term 'step-' correctly as well, as with Jessica for instance.

 


#12:  Author: MoraLocation: Lancaster PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:39 pm


I always thought of it as a Mary-Louism. She likes saying things differently and was famous for coming out with some rather strange things.

 


#13:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:02 am


A way of making the relationship sound interesting so that OOAO could explain things, and carry on about how Verity needed her to organise her life?

 


#14:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: Devon PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:40 pm


This bugged me too for ages. I put it down to very irritating EBD "must do everything slightly differently" - and it completely threw me when I was about twelve!

 


#15:  Author: KatethLocation: Heidelberg PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:59 pm


It drove me absolutely up the wall when I realised it was wrong, and still does - until a few years ago, I firmly believed that everything in books had to be right because it was, er, in a book. Hmm.

What gets me now is the firm way that Mary-Lou says several times that they're definitely not step-sisters. Argh!

 


#16:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:19 pm


I did wonder if in some convoluted way it was because they were friends first and their parents met more because of that.
I know it probably doesn't make sense, but it felt like that might be a reason why they would refer to it as sisters by marriage

 


#17:  Author: Joan the DwarfLocation: Er, where am I? PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:54 pm


Kateth wrote:

What gets me now is the firm way that Mary-Lou says several times that they're definitely not step-sisters. Argh!


That's exactly what bugged me, too! I can't find a reference, but I seem to recall lots of startled new girls being told that they didn't have a name for their relationship so came up with that one.

OK, now I'm totally confused: in Changes, when OOAO breaks the news to her clan she says

Quote:
... we're going to be sisters - step ones, I mean.


(at least, that's what the pb says...)

Confused

 


#18:  Author: JackieJLocation: Kingston upon Hull PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:54 pm


Maybe EBD was being paid by the word, including all those separated by hyphens. And so using sisters-by-marriage as opposed to step-sisters was just her way of making a bit more cash Razz

JackieJ

 


#19:  Author: StellaLocation: Dublin, Ireland PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:43 pm


EBD's step-phobia goes further than Mary Lou and Verity - in The CS and the Island, one of the teachers says that Dicky Christie and Cherry's relationship is "rather difficult to explain". It turns out that they're just step-sisters - not so difficult, really! Dicky's father is marreid to Cherry's mother. The over-complication of their relationship totally confused me when I was a kid (and still confuses me now).

 


#20:  Author: Jay PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:45 pm


Dickie & Cherry used to confuse me too! Especially when she threw in Gaynor & Blinkie (can't remember his right name!).

Finally fathomed it out as Dickie & Cherry are step-sisters & both are half-sisters to Gaynor & Blinkie, who are full sister/brother! Am I right or am I still confused??!? Scratch I dont know

 


#21:  Author: StellaLocation: Dublin, Ireland PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:51 pm


Yes, the younger kids are the children of Dicky's father and Cherry's mother.

 


#22:  Author: Sarah_G-GLocation: Sheffield (termtime), ? any other time! PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:43 am


Maybr it's supposed to imply a closer relationship? Most of the people in the books who have step siblings don't seem to be that close to them either by character or age so they're only sort-of brought together by the marriage of the parents whereas ML and Verity were already close friends, almost sisters in that sense, so 'sisters-by-marriage' showed a closer relationship? That might make sense as the Christies are also a close family in spite of step- and half-siblings. Did EBD get on with her step-family or was it just toleration? It might just have been the way she saw things.

 


#23:  Author: MihiriLocation: surrey england PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:53 am


I put it down to the fact that Mary-Lou being a one and only had to do things diffrernt nd didnt want anything as ordinary as a step-sister

 


#24:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:14 pm


I really disliked OOAO's attitude to Verity, calling her 'my ghastly sister by marriage' and such things, and saying that Verity couldn't survive without OOAO. If she'd been left to cope, she would have had to.

 


#25:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:45 pm


Jennie wrote:
I really disliked OOAO's attitude to Verity, calling her 'my ghastly sister by marriage' and such things, and saying that Verity couldn't survive without OOAO. If she'd been left to cope, she would have had to.


When did ML call Verity that????

I thought EBD always pointed out that though ML kept tabs on Verity and made sure that she didn't daydream too much etc. Verity kept ML grounded - so that it was a symbiotic relationship.

 


#26:  Author: MihiriLocation: surrey england PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:47 pm


I think EBD did try and show that it was an equal relationship at times but though I'm not sure where she was described as ghastly I know there were several times when ML made it seem like Verity could definitely not have managed without her.

I also alwyas thought it was wrong that Matey turned a blind eye to ML helpingVerity in the mornings. No one else was allowed to and it must certainly have helped increase ML's sense of self-importance and made Verity feel incapable

 


#27:  Author: LesleyLocation: Rochester, Kent PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:09 am


And, although it was pointed out that verity kept Mary Lou grounded we were never shown any of those times.

 


#28:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:50 am


I agree with Chelsea that EBD meant to show the Verity-Anne/Mary-Lou relationship to benefit both of them, with Verity serving as sort of ballast for ML. I think Verity’s impact is supposed to be of the subtle sort, rather in the way Emerence’s desire not to horrify Verity steadies her a bit.

It is true that Verity is portrayed – and not just by ML – as a leaner, a “dear girl,” but…. she needs emotional support, she tires easily, she “moons about.” To quote Rosamund, "I think it's more that she lets things drift along and doesn't bother to see where she might tackle things herself. Perhaps if Mary-Lou left her to find her own feet she'd do it. But I agree she wouldn't be much help to anyone else." There is some feeling that she’s being passed from prop ML to prop Alan Trevor. Still, it’s not that Verity-Anne lacks gumption or a mind of her own, from the time we see her stubbornness over the German carols. She’s the one who goes for help when Miss Burnett & ML are down in the pit; she’s the one who crawls out of the hut for snow to melt, and starts calling for the rescue team. And she does, of course, have her own gifts, with the silvery mezzo-soprano, the kind of grace that lets her win flower-pot races and obstacle courses, plus such practical talents as “a knack of rubbing hair dry.” She knows that she wants to teach music, and, even at the worst, ML has no doubt that she’ll recover from her depression and be off to the Royal College. And in the end, Verity is presumably a success a la EBD, inviting ML to recuperate with her family – even though ML decides the Alps are healthier – and making ML an aunt-by-marriage.

Matey turning a blind eye didn’t really bother me. After all, she tried for years before deciding that “The only result of hounding her on is to make her so nervous that she can’t do a thing right.” Nor do I remember ML calling Verity names, other than the fairly even-handed “O.K., Verity- Anne, you poop! I'll settle with you later” of the early years. I have to admit, though, that there is one MLism that really upsets me: In Reunion, during the conversation with Grizel, ML declares herself without family, and says, “You can't really count Verity and she'll be married in June, anyhow.” What kind of a statement is that, from someone who’s been so careful to act a real sister rather than a stepsister?

*still believes in ML, warts and all*
(After all, she WAS half in shock over her mother's death at the time of the talk with Grizel. *makes excuses*)

 


#29:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:01 am


The point that I was trying to make was that Verity was not a mooner when she first appeared in the books. She knew what she wanted to do, and was strong-willed and stubborn.

It's only when their relationship becomes closer that OOAO decides that she's got to look after Verity because EBD writes them that way. I think it was a case of EBD altering a character to fit in with her ideas of the next central character.

 


#30:  Author: MihiriLocation: surrey england PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:34 pm


Jennie, I nver thought of it like that but now that you mention it it is clear that Verity was not a mooner at all in the begiining. In Three Go I'm not sure who was more determined - ML with wanting to move forms to be with Clem or Verity in refusing to sing German carols

 


#31:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:55 pm


In some ways it seems that OOAOML is actually bad for Verity-Anne. She's happy to stand back and let someone (M-L) do all her work for her but if she has to do any thing then she's capable. When did M-L start taking over her dormitory duties and what happened before that? In Three Go when they are in different dorms you never hear any accounts of V-A being late at all - Maybe OOAOML just likes to feel important

 


#32:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:18 am


I wonder if EBD was aware of the fact that 'step-' relations tended to have much more negative connotations than they do today, eg. in Cinderella with the wicked stepmother and stepsisters. If you've read Seven Scamps, the step-relationship there is also not good, and similarly with Mrs. Cochrane. Perhaps EBD was trying to create something apart from that (although I know that there are other examples in her writing where step-relationships are very successful).

 


#33:  Author: Elisabeth PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:32 pm


I was never too bothered about EBD seeming to have no idea what step-sisters were. It was only until very recently that I thought step-sisters shared a parent and I had no idea what ML and Verity's relationship would be called. I was also under the impression that I was not the only one who didn't understand so I think it quite possible that EBD just didn't know the definitions of step-siblings, half-siblings etc. Maybe in her day relationships were less clearly defined and so every relationship by marriage was just step-something and then she realised that there ought to be different names for people who share a parent and people who don't so she just made one up.

 




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