Religion Classes
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#1: Religion Classes Author: Jane, Location: Southampton PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:46 pm
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This topic was split from a discussion on Working Class Girls in the FD forum Smile - Róisín

I would agree that EBD is remarkably egalitarian for her time, and obviously this can be extended to her attitude to different branches of Christianity, although it obviously never occurred to her that there were any other religions to consider. It's odd that there were never any Jewish girsl at the school in Tyrol (although perhaps it's just as well).

Compare with the wonderful E Nesbit, 30 years earlier. The woman was a Fabian socialist and about as inclusive as it was possible to be at the time, and yet her books are riddled with classism and sexism of what we, with hindsight, would consider the most egregious kind. On the other hand, I prefer that to the current inverted snobbery of popular what passes for culture.
#2:  Author: JayB, Location: SE England PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:16 pm
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Quote:
It's odd that there were never any Jewish girsl at the school in Tyrol

I suppose practising Jews would be unlikely to send their daughters to a school with such a strongly Christian ethos, if there were alternatives.

But I suspect the real reason is that EBD generally wrote about what she knew, and she didn't know enough to write convincingly about Judaism as a major plot element. And if it isn't a major plot element there isn't really any point in mentioning it at all.

Re accents, I think it's bad speech rather than regional accents that EBD dislikes. The American girls are dropped on for slang, rather than their accents. No-one ever comments on the way Louise or the Marys speak. Biddy, after she's been at school for a while, and Jack, can speak perfectly well when they choose - they only speak badly when they're being sloppy or annoying, and then the authorities I think are entitled to criticise. As with slang, they don't want the Continental girls picking up bad habits.
#3:  Author: Caty, Location: New Zealand PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:55 am
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Wasn't Naomi a Jew? Or a Jewess as they called it?
#4:  Author: JayB, Location: SE England PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:19 pm
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Caty wrote:
Wasn't Naomi a Jew? Or a Jewess as they called it?

No. From Trials -
Quote:
“You’re incorrigible!” Miss Annersley cried. “Anyhow, this isn’t getting us any further with Naomi—”
“Yes, I was going to ask you about that. She isn’t a Jewess, is she?”
“Not that I know of. ‘Naomi’ isn’t restricted to Jews, you know. I was at school with twins called Ruth and Naomi,” Miss Annersley said reminiscently. “Dear me! I haven’t thought of those two for years. Their father was a country Rector and all five of the family had Biblical names. "
#5:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:47 pm
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I think that the strong Christian ethos of the school would have put off people of other faiths or none. Girls had to attend religious assemblies every day - even Naomi, who didn't belong to any religion, was told that she had to attend - and had to attend church on Sundays even when they were away on school trips. Also, it would have been difficult for Jewish/Muslim/Hindu girls who followed dietary laws to manage food-wise.

I don't think EBD felt able to cope with characters who were neither Catholic nor Protestant. Belsornia, given that it (sometimes!!) bordered Turkey and that the language was similar to Romanian, would probably have had an Orthodox royal family, but we're told that Elisaveta and presumably her daughters are Catholic; and although there was a Russian girl there in Tyrol days, who would probably have been Orthodox, her religion's never mentioned. And Lilamani, who coming from Kashmir would probably have been Muslim or maybe Hindu, is a Protestant.
#6:  Author: JayB, Location: SE England PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:07 pm
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Quote:
Also, it would have been difficult for Jewish/Muslim/Hindu girls who followed dietary laws to manage food-wise.

And it would have made timetabling very difficult if they'd had girls of different faiths observing different days of the week as holy days.
#7:  Author: Holly,  PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:46 am
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Alison H wrote:
I think that the strong Christian ethos of the school would have put off people of other faiths or none. Girls had to attend religious assemblies every day - even Naomi, who didn't belong to any religion, was told that she had to attend - and had to attend church on Sundays even when they were away on school trips.


I wonder if EBD had had a similar experience when she was running her school, a girl who wasn't a practicing member of any particular faith and whose parents/guardian wanted to allow her to choose for herself. She (through her characters) seemed more than a tad disapproving of the arrangements for Naomi - and as soon as the girl takes part in a Christian service, she's immediately moved, as though her lack of religion is another thing that needs to be "cured" by the school.
#8:  Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:23 am
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It makes sense that the Chalet School, as a strongly Christian School, would accept Christian students. They have daily services, prayers at assembly, religious education classes, and observe the Christian holidays. Accomodating a non believer would be barely possible, but someone of a completely different faith would be problematic, given the different holy days and festivals, dietary restrictions, clothing restrictions and religious education required.
#9:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:13 am
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I'd love to've seen someone rebel against it, actually! I've always thought it was really off that Naomi, who at 17 was quite old enough to make her own mind up in religious matters, was told she had to attend religious assembly and was very rudely lectured by Mary-Lou about how atheism was "tosh" (or words to that effect), and presumably also had to say daily prayers, attend services on Sunday, and so on. What would they have done if someone had refused point blank to go? Kept them in isolation in the San until they gave in, I suppose Rolling Eyes .
#10:  Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:17 am
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Maybe it just never occurred to EBD to have girls of other religions than Christianity at the CS.

I can't see why it would, especially. Other than the occassional Jewish girl, I don't remember any other school story series of EBD's era featuring non-Christian girls - assuming they mention religion at all, of course. Generally, I would have said that religion seems to be one of those things that is often there in the background without featuring particularly - the general assumption that English schoolgirls (or at least schoolgirls at English schools) are Christians etc.. It's not something many GO-ish writers dwell on - it's just there...
#11:  Author: Holly,  PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:26 pm
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Alison H wrote:
I'd love to've seen someone rebel against it, actually!


An idea for a fanfic, perhaps?

Alison H wrote:
I've always thought it was really off that Naomi, who at 17 was quite old enough to make her own mind up in religious matters, was told she had to attend religious assembly and was very rudely lectured by Mary-Lou about how atheism was "tosh" (or words to that effect), and presumably also had to say daily prayers, attend services on Sunday, and so on.


Not exactly tolerant, was it? Seventeen is, as you say, quite old enough to make up one's own mind. My school used to have a Mass at the end of each school year, and before we broke up for the Christmas holidays and those who, like myself, didn't want to attend could play computer games, read a book, go to the art room, etc. Whenever there was a spiritual retreat, if you didn't want to go, you could take the day off.

Alison H wrote:
What would they have done if someone had refused point blank to go? Kept them in isolation in the San until they gave in, I suppose Rolling Eyes .


Good question; the staff would probably have fretted about it being a bad example to the Juniors and the Prefects and/or Mary Lou's Gang would have staged an intervention.
#12:  Author: JayB, Location: SE England PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:39 pm
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I suppose the authorities would have used the argument 'Your parents/guardian chose to send you here - they obviously intended you to abide by our rules'. If the girl was old enough to make up her own mind, and had made her views known, the parents/guardian would be at fault for sending her to a school she was unsuited to.
#13:  Author: Kate, Location: Ireland PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:51 pm
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The vast majority of schools in Ireland are Catholic in ethos but most have children of other religions attending. If the parents don't want the children to attend religious services/religion class, they have to come to the school, collect them, supervise them during the time and return them afterwards. Otherwise the children have to attend the class/service although they don't have to participate. Most parents don't collect them like this - it would be fairly pointless anyway, as religion does tend to come in throughout the day anyway - St Patrick's Day lessons are fairly constant just before the day itself, Christmas and Easter lessons are the same, prayers in the mornings/before meals/after meals are always said etc.There are schools that are multi-denominational or for other faiths, and it's pretty much agreed that if the parents were really that bothered by the Catholic ethos, they'd make an effort to send their children somewhere else.

It does get a bit ridiculous in some of the more multi-cultural areas though, when you have maybe five Catholic children in a class of 30. We're contractually obliged to (a) teach religion and (b) maintain the Catholic ethos of the school but it's a bit silly when none of the children you're teaching are actually Catholic.

*stops hijacking the thread now*
#14:  Author: Holly,  PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:50 pm
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JayB wrote:
I suppose the authorities would have used the argument 'Your parents/guardian chose to send you here - they obviously intended you to abide by our rules'. If the girl was old enough to make up her own mind, and had made her views known, the parents/guardian would be at fault for sending her to a school she was unsuited to.


But by that argument, if someone's parent sent their lactose intolerant daughter to a school, that daughter should have to drink milk, eat butter, etc, because that's on the school menu. In cases where special arrangements should be made and can been made without massive disruption to the school - ie., special dietary provisions or allowing a student to go for a walk, or stay in the common room while others were attending religious services, why not do it?

Kate wrote:
The vast majority of schools in Ireland are Catholic in ethos but most have children of other religions attending. If the parents don't want the children to attend religious services/religion class, they have to come to the school, collect them, supervise them during the time and return them afterwards. Otherwise the children have to attend the class/service although they don't have to participate.


Seriously? I remember there was a boy in my primary school class who wasn't Catholic; he could read or draw or play quietly in the classroom while the rest of us were taking part in religion class or else he could go to one of the other classrooms.
#15:  Author: Kate, Location: Ireland PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:13 pm
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Holly wrote:
Seriously? I remember there was a boy in my primary school class who wasn't Catholic; he could read or draw or play quietly in the classroom while the rest of us were taking part in religion class or else he could go to one of the other classrooms.


Oh they can draw/read/do something quietly - they don't have to participate at all. But because religion is generally a "fun" lesson in primary school, with lots of songs and art, it is a bit horrible to expect a child to sit there and not participate. So generally in my experience non-Catholic Christians do let their children participate in *most* religion classes, unless it gets into Catholic dogma (which at primary level it mostly isn't).

The children are definitely not allowed to leave the room - not any more anyway, I think they used to be. But now - for insurance reasons they can't be unsupervised and they're not the responsibility of the other teachers in the other classrooms and I think that possibly throws up insurance problems too. Aside from the fact that it is traditional to have religion in the period just before lunch in every class, so they would be going from one religion class to another...
#16:  Author: Rosalin, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:23 pm
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The Jehovas Witnesses in my primary school had a similar arrangement for assemblies. There were several of them and they would sit in a work area with a teacher or helper while we were in the hall.

I think that religion can't really be classed in the same way as, say, lactose intolerance. AFAIK there aren't special schools which serve no dairy products so anyone who can't eat them will have to have adjustments made where ever they are. To me someone coming to the CS and complaining about the prayers/religious focus is more like a sighted person going to a school for the blind and then feeling that too much time was spent studying Braille and learning how to work with a guide dog (or that kind of thing, I don't know much about how such a school would work). The point being religion or blindness is such an important part of what the school is about, so if it isn't relevant then you're probably in the wrong school.

The only exception that I can see in the case of the CS is someone who needs to be in that area, but doesn't subscribe to the ethos. Either the child of a patient at the San who might need them at short notice, or the child of a doctor there. Isn't there a drabble in the archives somewhere about that sort of situation?
#17:  Author: macyrose, Location: Great White North (Canada) PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:41 pm
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In Theodora Jo and Rosalie are talking about why the Chalet School hasn't made much of a difference in Joan Baker and Jo says that while Joan has improved, in her case they have to deal with heredity as well as evironment. What has heredity got to do with it, and why is it, as far as I know, ever only applied to Joan?
#18:  Author: Miriam, Location: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:45 pm
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About twenty years ago there was a fairly well known local trouble-maker (and naming him now would probably be libel) who lived opposite my Jewish kindergarten, who applied for his son to come to the kindergarten, citing the fact that it was across the road from his house, and all sorts of other logical reasons like that. The authorities there wrote stating they would accept the child, but advising not to send him on social grounds; the child would want to know why his parents didn't obsere any of the jewish holidays, observe Shabbat, keep any of the other laws he would learn about etc, and none of his friends would ever come to play with him, because the food would not be kosher. The child would also have been expected to conform to all areas of Jewish law (age appropriate) while on the kindergarten premises. THey never heard from his father again.

The message was clear - we are a Jewish institution, and if you want to join us, you must conform to our rules. I saw the CS as taking the same attitude - it is up to you whether you join us, but once you join us you must fit in with us. Really that was an attitude that applied across the board, not just in the area of religeon.

Reading it as a child, I never felt the lack of any Jewish girls there. It fitted generally into my concept of the world, where there was not a great deal of mixing. I went to a jewish school, where I had my friends, and I also had books about similar kinds of schools, where I could put myself into the characters. There was the non-Jewish school down the road, and I had nothing to do with them. THere might be girls I would interact with in swimming lessons or something, but I would never have an extended relationship with them. The CS came into this category (though rather more exotic than the school down the road). It was a non-Jewish institution, and I related to it as such. I would probably have been quite disturbed if a Jewish girl did appear at the CS, and concerned about how she would have dealt with keeping all the details of Jewish law.

Having said that, I often spent hours reworking the CS so that it would be a Jewish school, but the idea of a mixed religeon school never even occured to me.

Last edited by Miriam on Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
#19:  Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:49 pm
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When Matty started at Fulneck Moravian School in 2002 we had to agree that he would go to all the religous assemblies and take full part in the religious life of the school - all parents had to agree that, it was a condition of taking up the offered place. The school actually has quite a lot of Muslims attending it, but they still have to got to Church with everyone else and take part.

But it is a private school so can to some extent write the rule book. I know that the Quaker schools (also private) expect that all pupils will attend Meeting for Worship when it is held on school days. At Ackworth the boarders (very very few of whom are Quakers) also have compulsory Meeting on a Sunday - personally I don't agree with that as our kids have the choice of whether to go on a Sunday or whether to stay at home and I think that the boarders should have the same choice.

But EBD was (first) writing at a time when it was much more the norm that people would attend Church and she just carried on with that assumption.
#20:  Author: linda, Location: Leeds PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:17 pm
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Alison H wrote:

And Lilamani, who coming from Kashmir would probably have been Muslim or maybe Hindu, is a Protestant.


This might not be totally unrealistic. After all when Lavender was being written Kashmir was part of India which was still part of the British Empire, and therefore Christianity played a large part in the country.

Also, my daughter who is currently at university in Manchester is sharing a house with a girl who is an Asian (Indian) Catholic. So Lilimani could have quite well been a Christian.

However, I do agree that EBD probably never thought of having girls of any other religion at the CS.
#21:  Author: Holly,  PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:19 pm
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linda wrote:
However, I do agree that EBD probably never thought of having girls of any other religion at the CS.


Probably sensible for a writer if she doesn't know a lot about other faiths.
#22:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:29 pm
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Re Joan and heredity, it sounds as if Joey meant that Joan had inherited her "common" behaviour from her parents - which a) smacked of some horrible sort of weird 19th century idea about inherited behavioural traits and b) was a ridiculous thing to say given that Joey had never met any of Joan's relatives. Presumably in the cases of Biddy and Rosamund, also from working-class backgrounds, Joey felt that the effects of "heredity" had been countered by their mothers having worked for posh ladies who made a "good" impression on them!

It'd be interesting to know if she applied the "heredity" theory to Thekla.

My school, which was non-denominational, used to have "secular" assemblies on 2 days of the week, no assembly on one day per week when form meeting type things were held instead, and on the other 2 days there were separate religious assemblies. It started off as Christian assembly and Jewish assembly, but then Muslim assembly was added as well, and I think they now have Hindu assembly and Sikh assembly too: it was a nice idea but with so many different assemblies now I can imagine that it's chaos on those mornings Rolling Eyes . It's an all-girls' school but the corresponding all-boys' school over the road had/has the same system.
#23:  Author: Ruth M, Location: London PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:23 pm
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I was always slightly surprised by the fact that Protestant seemed to equal CofE. There never seemed to be any confusion caused by e.g. Scottish girls being presbyterian and not used to the CofE way of doing things (which manages to confuse me no end any time I go to any CofE that isn't incredibly low). AFAIK the Scottish Episcopal Church is not large, and the MacDonald twins, being Islanders and the first Scottish pupils I can think of, would be far more likely to be Church of Scotland, wouldn't they? I'm more than happy to be corrected if anyone has a better idea than I do!

And that's before you start even considering non-conformists of all varieties!
#24:  Author: Sugar, Location: second star to the right! PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:57 pm
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Going slightily off topic

I revolted against the religion in my Ex-Convent School in Vith form, my father had just died, we weren't overly religious at home. I sure as hell wasn't going to be made to go to Mass at School.... it went down like a lead balloon!

However, on teaching practice, I found it very disconcerting that little johnny couldn't count to 10 but he could recite the Hail Mary word perfect! I had a muslim boy in that class...just one in a class of 30... poor little mite hadn't got a clue what was going on in RE or assembly and it was an unwritten rule that you never asked him a question..
#25:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:49 am
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Ruth M wrote:
I was always slightly surprised by the fact that Protestant seemed to equal CofE. There never seemed to be any confusion caused by e.g. Scottish girls being presbyterian and not used to the CofE way of doing things (which manages to confuse me no end any time I go to any CofE that isn't incredibly low). AFAIK the Scottish Episcopal Church is not large, and the MacDonald twins, being Islanders and the first Scottish pupils I can think of, would be far more likely to be Church of Scotland, wouldn't they? I'm more than happy to be corrected if anyone has a better idea than I do!

And that's before you start even considering non-conformists of all varieties!


Not to mention the Lutheran and Calvinist girls from various Continental countries! Don't all the Protestant girls get taken to a Lutheran service whilst on a half term trip somewhere once? IIRC Mary-Lou complains about how bad the pastor's sermon was!
#26:  Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:14 am
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I think C of E is a very English thing because a much older friend of the family had never heard of the expression until she went to the UK. C of E is Anglican here. Maybe it was the most dominant English Church denomination of the day.

On another note there is a archived drabble series called An athiest goes to the Chalet School. Its basically set in Tom and Bride's era and the girls leaves and then returns when they are all at St Millie's and Tom wants to be a missionary. Its a good drabble though I forget who the author is. Sorry Embarassed
#27:  Author: Karry, Location: Stoke on Trent PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:57 am
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My children went to a Church of England School, which actually had 72% muslim pupils - their parents wanted a faith school that had standards and a religious ethos, even though it weasnt their own. All pupils took part in assemblies, chanted the Lord's Prayer etc. The only time there was a problem was when JW parents wanted to send their children there as it was educationally the better school in the area, and the Head refused them, as they had wanted their children to be excused RE lessons and assemblies.
#28:  Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:52 am
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I have taught in five different Catholic junior schools in my teaching career. Being a practising Catholic myself, that was my choice. There were some non-Catholics at all those schools and none of them were ever press-ganged into going to RE lessons or assemblies or Mass. Some of them did attend through their own choice. And my daughter, at her non-fee-paying Catholic Grammar School, found the same. There were, in particular, quite a few Jewish girls, as the school was in an area where many Jews lived, and very many of them opted to attend everything, much to my daughter's surprise. In fact, she often laughed, saying those girls were keener to attend than some of the Catholics in the school. Laughing
#29:  Author: Hannah-Lou, Location: Glasgow PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:26 pm
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Ruth M wrote:
I was always slightly surprised by the fact that Protestant seemed to equal CofE. There never seemed to be any confusion caused by e.g. Scottish girls being presbyterian and not used to the CofE way of doing things (which manages to confuse me no end any time I go to any CofE that isn't incredibly low). AFAIK the Scottish Episcopal Church is not large, and the MacDonald twins, being Islanders and the first Scottish pupils I can think of, would be far more likely to be Church of Scotland, wouldn't they? I'm more than happy to be corrected if anyone has a better idea than I do!


Yes, this is true, they (and all the other Scottish girls at the CS who aren't Catholic) are far more likely to be CofS than Episcopalian. And don't forget Richenda, who was a Quaker.

The thing that always irritated me most (as a non-religious person) was that lack of religion, particularly in Naomi, was seen as a thing that needed fixed, and I always got the impression that it was the main thing that made her relatives describe her as having a "warped mind" Twisted Evil . "Fixing" a lack of religion is not an attitude confined to EBD though.
#30:  Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:34 pm
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Alison H wrote:
I think that the strong Christian ethos of the school would have put off people of other faiths or none. Girls had to attend religious assemblies every day - even Naomi, who didn't belong to any religion, was told that she had to attend - and had to attend church on Sundays even when they were away on school trips.


The Education Act of 1944 stated that religion must be taught in school and that collective worship had to take place daily, and said worship should be broadly Christian in character.

*removes RE hat*
#31:  Author: Maeve, Location: Romania PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:15 pm
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Alison H wrote:
Quote:
- even Naomi, who didn't belong to any religion, was told that she had to attend -


This was the decision of Naomi's aunt. Whether because she herself thought Naomi should attend something, or because she thought Naomi should conform to the school, she is the one who decides that Naomi should attend C of E prayers and then decide for herself whether she wants to continue with that the following term.
#32:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:43 pm
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Ooh yes, I remember now Embarassed . She just hadn't told Naomi, who had to get OOAO to ask Hilda!
#33:  Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:42 pm
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Hannah-Lou wrote:


And don't forget Richenda, who was a Quaker.



Who rarely seemed to go to Meeting even when at home as she mostly went to the parish church with Nanny who was staunchly CofE. banghead
#34:  Author: meerium, Location: belfast, northern ireland PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:32 am
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Mildly tangentially, but every time I read one of Erica's speeches in the Dimsie books, I always think of the Quaker meeting I went to (I do intend to go back again, I'm just out of practice getting up on a Sunday morning, and when idiot SLOC does things like turn the volume on my radio alarm down so low it doesn't actually wake me up, even though it goes off at the right time.....) - it's something about the speaking in public plus, in that context, addressing her listeners as 'Friends...'.
#35:  Author: Chelsea, Location: Your Imagination PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:53 pm
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Ruth M wrote:
I was always slightly surprised by the fact that Protestant seemed to equal CofE.


It does come up in one of the Tyrol books (Rivals, I think). They are discussing church collections with the Saints and one of the Saints asks why the money goes to the San rather than (something I cannot remember). And a Chaletian (Joey?) says something to the effect of "we have many non CofE girls, they come to this service because it is the only Protestant type service around. They wouldn't have any idea about (whatever CofE type charity the Saint had mentioned).

Maybe someone with a better memory can actually describe the scene accurately!
#36:  Author: Maeve, Location: Romania PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:42 pm
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Yes, it's in Rivals.

Quote:
‘Well, why shouldn’t they [the collections] go to foreign missions sometimes?’ asked Elaine.
‘Such as which?’ queried Joey, with a grin. ‘You mustn’t forget that we aren’t all English here. Some of our girls are Americans, and some are Germans and Norwegians. It’s only because this is the only Protestant religion hereabouts that they all come to this. And you can’t expect them to feel any interest in the S.P.G or the Y.M.C.A.’
#37:  Author: Sunflower,  PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:19 am
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On a similair note..

I went to a Jewish school that was orthodox in its outlook, and I always felt I could totally empathise with the culture of the Chalet school, in that we had no contact with boys, we had to dress modestly, and our hair wasnt allowed to be longer than our shoulders. (unless we tied it back)
I actually never realized that the ethos the Chalet school portrayed was old - fashioned when I started reading it, (at about age 12) because it was what I was used to...
#38:  Author: Catherine, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:54 pm
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Rosalin wrote:
The only exception that I can see in the case of the CS is someone who needs to be in that area, but doesn't subscribe to the ethos. Either the child of a patient at the San who might need them at short notice, or the child of a doctor there. Isn't there a drabble in the archives somewhere about that sort of situation?


Lulie wrote a drabble about a Pagan attending the CS which may or may not be lurking in the archives somewhere ...
#39:  Author: Rosalin, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:31 pm
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That's the one! Thank you. I only read the start of it and it will be a lot easier to find again now that I know the authors name.

Thank you Lulie as well, I really enjoyed the bit I did read.
#40:  Author: Lottie, Location: Humphrey's Corner PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:13 pm
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catherine wrote:
Lulie wrote a drabble about a Pagan attending the CS which may or may not be lurking in the archives somewhere ...

Is it just me, or is the part archived as part 2 actually part 4, and is part 2 really missing? I think there seems to be a huge gap between parts 1 and 2 as they are archived, which is a shame, since I was just getting into the story, and being happy that I wasn't having to wait for updates, like the people reading as Lulie wrote it.
#41:  Author: Lulie, Location: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:43 pm
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Haven't a clue about the archiving, as I can't seem to find it in the archives! Point me in the right direction and I'll have a look in the archives and check for you, if you like.


I may have it lurking about somewhere on my computer and can send it to you if the archive really has eaten part of it.
#42:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:50 pm
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Lulie, it really does look as though it's not just a mix-up with link names. Instead, we have two differently named copies of Dec. 18-Dec 30, 2003 and zero copies of Oct 13-Nov. 29th, 2003. The same goes for what's available on the WayBack Machine. It would be lovely if you could send a copy for the archive as well.

In the Index Drabble-Orum (link at top of Ste. Therese's), the drabble is listed under Lulie/LulieCat, as "CS and a Pagan." I'd forgotten about LulieCat. Very Happy
#43:  Author: Lulie, Location: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:20 pm
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Ach, would you look at that! *pokes drabble archiving bunny HARD!*

I'll try and send you a complete, finished copy Kathy. Oh, and I'd forgotten about LulieCat too, even though the 'cat' part of the name is currently attempting to paw at my hand so I'll tickle under her chin Laughing
#44:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:49 am
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Thank you, Lulie!

In the drabble index, under "Lulie/Luliecat," you should now be able to access Lulie's full text Word file. I have also replaced part 2 with just the missing text, converted to html.
#45:  Author: Lulie, Location: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:07 pm
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Thank you Kathy, you're a star and I'm a computer-challenged nitwit Laughing

Enjoy to those who've been wanting to read it in full. Feel free to pm me any comments Very Happy
#46:  Author: Lottie, Location: Humphrey's Corner PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:38 pm
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Thanks, Lulie and Kathy! Very Happy I have now read and enjoyed the full version of CS and a Pagan. I love the way the extra characters fit in seamlessly with the rest.
#47:  Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:34 am
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At secondary school in the 60's RE lessons and daily assembly were compulsary - proper religous assembly with prayers and hymns, the only people excused were the Jehovah Witnesses (one in my form) and the duty teacher who caught the latecomers. The JW had to stand outside the hall during assembly. I cannot remember what she did during RE lessons - probably had to stand outside those too.

I remember when we went back to school after Christmas and people were talking about what presents they got feeling sorry for her because she got nothing.
#48:  Author: Elle, Location: Peterborough PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:11 pm
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Sugar wrote:

However, on teaching practice, I found it very disconcerting that little johnny couldn't count to 10 but he could recite the Hail Mary word perfect! I had a muslim boy in that class...just one in a class of 30... poor little mite hadn't got a clue what was going on in RE or assembly and it was an unwritten rule that you never asked him a question..



When I was an NQT I was teaching Christianity to my yr 7 Humanities class and the only child who appeared to know anything about Christianity and the Bible was the muslim boy!
#49:  Author: alicat, Location: Wiltshire PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:54 pm
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This is fascinating hearing different points of view..

at my school in the 60's/70s daily assembly with C of E religious emphasis was compulsory, tho girls of other faiths (Hindu/Jewish/Muslim) were excused if their parents wanted them to be - tho actually most of them came. The only other people not forced to go were the prefects on duty to catch latecomers - guess which job I volunteered for?

my younger children's C of E primary only has two religious assemblies a week, which all the kids have to go to, but they are not always using C of E religious beliefs in them, they have had the local Imam in to take services, the Catholic priest, a URC minister, and a very evangelical yoof group with guitars etc (the kids hated them, btw)

my oldest daughter's school seems not to have changed from the sort of regime I remember, and like me she is very envious of the fact that her Jewish friends get extra holidays when they have holy days.

I did wonder why there were no Jewish CS girls as there were quite a lot at my school, which was very like the CS except for not being boarding. Looking back on it I realise now I learned a lot about respecting other religions because there were people of different faiths at my school and they were treated differently - so I grew up with the idea that it was OK for people to believe in different things.
#50:  Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:39 pm
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Our school always used to hold its inset days on Jewish holidays to minimise problems with pupils missing work. Although I'm not sure what Jewish teachers were supposed to do!
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